⚽️THE FOOTY THREAD: PSG v Bayern

Who Will Win Champions League?

  • Bayern Munich

  • Paris Saint-Germain

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flyeed said:
i can't believe the thread has devolved to CR vs Messi in 2020 :lol:

but to get the last thing off my mind regarding it. In the last dance doc, BJ Armstrong made a distinction between playing the game and going out to win. I think in that sense, Messi is better at playing the game of footy. He's both an elite scorer and playmaker, and a better dead ball specialist. But CL CR figured out how to score, often multiple goals, on any opponent. In the end of the day when it comes to winning, getting a goal via positioning, speed, power, aerial ability, anticipation, drive, and having two strong feet counts as much as a goal that came from messi magic. And not only does it count the same, but it was proven to be a more reliable method for cracking the stingiest defenses.
Click to expand...

We were so close to making it thru all of the Coronavirus without a CR7 vs Messi debate. It’s been ages........then POOF :lol:

We’re back to day 0

1590043862700.jpeg
 
flyeed said:
Using goals per game as a metric to indicate Messi > CR in the CL is disingenuous, especially while ignoring who the comp’s top scorer/assist man is. Just because Messi got going at a younger age doesn’t mean anything, because once Ronaldo took off he went on a level beyond anyone else. And it’s evidenced by being the man on a squad that won 4/5, and how badly they fell off as soon as he left.

I’m not saying CR > Messi. I’m just saying that if he’s clearly the best player in the history of the highest level most difficult competition then you can’t really be mad if people say he and Messi are too close to call for them.

and rolaholic rolaholic appreciate the insight into what made it more difficult to score back then.
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Nah man it's not all disingenuous to bring up goals/assist per minute or appearance as a counter point when someone else egregiously claims statistics favor a certain player. I didn't cherry pick the UCL ratio either, I listed the same metric across every possible competition type.

I don't see how a rational argument can be made that CR7 is statistically better than Messi over the course of their respective careers.

Goals + Assist/Game will never not be relevant. When we start looking at offensive metrics outside of goals/assists, the gap widens. Start looking at actual advanced metrics, the gap becomes a gulf.

I get that you place tremendous value on some of Ronaldo's accomplishments that he's shares with his Real Madrid teams but for me it's important to separate legacy from individual quality in this specific debate.

For me at the end of the day the stats and team championships are really irrelevant when discussing who is the better individual player.

Messi is the more proficient goal scorer. He's the vastly superior creator. He's the better facilitator. He's more valuable on set pieces.

I can't pretend as if I tune in and watch either player and key in on their defensive work, I really don't have an opinion there, but Messi statistically has contributed more tackles, more interceptions, and less fouls, year-over-year.

I mean I get it, Ronaldo has won slightly more collectively along with his team. We can also discount Messi for playing with Xavi, Iniesta, Eto, Henry (personally I think that's laughable) but eye-test alone, Messi is top dawg for me taking into account nothing other than playing ability.
 
tomdiginson said:
You made a snide remark while "upping" someone else. The post is there since you're having selective memory.



Reading is your friend. I clearly stated
"It can also be argued that Messi has played on teams with better players ((both club and country) than Ronaldo for the vast majority of his career. Players like Eto, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Xavi etc help make the game way easier for Messi to score goals as well as to create chances for others. So its obvious he's going to have better ratios."

In the words of 50 cent "Are you illiterate *****? You can't read between the lines". Since you need hand-holding, let me break it down for you.

One can easily see that by having such great supporting talents around him, Messi was able to flourish. If defenses focused on him, he could send a pass to one of his teammate. Said players could also create chances for him to score. Football is a team sport. No matter how great of an individual player you claim to be, if the other 10 players on the pitch cannot get you in goal scoring opportunities, or create for themselves, you're not going to score that many goals. Throughout his career, he had class players around him who are just as lethal. See MSN. Whenever a specific player was keyed in on by defenders, the open player made them pay. This advantage allows Messi to bag goals easily and create for his team. All of which add to his own individual statistics. Ronaldo has achieved more with less. Drop Messi on Norwich city and see if he will be able to bag 50+ goals. His individual career stats would not be that great. I've included images since you're having a hard time with reading.



pt 1.jpg
pt 2.jpg
pt 3.jpg




Please see my original post since you have selective memory.
Click to expand...

You fumbled guy. Didn't even read your drivel this time.

Do you like I'd do a mouthy woman.

No more attention for you!

 
Patiently waiting for the first training pics of Pogs and Bruno together...:nerd:

Need new phone wallpaper :lol:



A few players have expressed the same reservations as well, gonna be interesting to see how the league accommodates the players who aren't comfortable getting back out there
 
Anyone think it should be a rule if you finish in a European spot in any league you shouldn't be allowed to get free transfers domestically?
 
Hella Strong said:
You fumbled guy. Didn't even read your drivel this time.

Do you like I'd do a mouthy woman.

No more attention for you!

Click to expand...

Asks for facts, get facts that they cannot refute, cry, and make corny jokes. :lol:. Enjoy your Messi poster Chica.
 
Last edited:
I don’t understand the problem with the dolls in the stands
They are more conservatively dressed than most lady football fans
 
Been posting about Nani in this thread for a minute...

Come get this cookie for ya amateur detective work, Tom

In other news, water is wet
 
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