5 Best Players ever in the NBA at each position?

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

^Knicks fan salty about Pippen and Hakeem. There's a surprise.

The Bulls were still talented with out Jordan but when Jordan left for 2 years he couldnt even get them to the finals by himself.

@ "couldn't even get them to the finals by himself", as if he should've taken that team to the finals, and as if it's an outrage that he didn't make the finals. Dude had nothing but role players. It's hard to take teams to the finals when situations like this are called for being fouls:


im not saying Pippen wasnt great. he was. He did a great job assisting jordan and he was easily the best side kick in NBA history. And he did take theBulls to the ECF both those years with out MJ. But to answer your question YES Scottie should have been able to lead his team to the finals, and it is anegative that he didnt, if yall are saying he is better than Bird who would do that on the regular. So do not stoneface me on that if he wants to be considered#1 you have to do that on your own not do it while MJ is dropping 45 a night. Bird not only led his team to the finals by himself numrous times, but he won. Asthe leader of the team with a bunch of role players around him as well. If you think Bird was better than Pippen you must be out of your mind. pip couldnt eventopple Ewing and the Knicks in 94, and as much as i love Ewng he didnt even win a ring (although it was mostly because of MJ). You cant compare a guy likePippen to a guy who led his team to numerous titles like Bird. Pippen was a great player and easily top 5, but in order to be as good as Larry Bird he wouldhave had to lead his team to success like Bird did almost every year in the 80s, pippen NEVER did that. and no this is not me being a salty Knicks fan this iscommon sense.

As well as Hakeem. I love Hakeem and i agree he was a tremendous player. But he cant compete with Kareems numerous rings and bing the NBA all time leadingscorers as well as making a shot trademark for him as his hook was unstoppable. You cannot compare Hakeem to that although he was great.

and you cant compare him to a man that consistently led his team to rings over and over again. I mean how you gonna even try to compre him to russel he haswhat 11 rings?

and than again you cant compare him to Wilt either. Wilt was the most dominant player of all time, and Hakeem was not even close to as dominant. Hakeem hashad NOTHING like 100 point games or 50+ rebound games. AND Wilt has more rings, name one category where Hakeem wins out there?

i mean cmon m not salty. im not saying Pippen and Hakeem werent good even great. But you cant compare a guy like Pippen to a guy like Bird, and Hakeem wasgreat but to say he was the GOAT over some of the most dominant players of all time in Kareem, russel, and Wilt is obsurd. He is DEFINITLEY in the next tier ofcenters wit Shaq and Pat. Get out of here with that salty Knicks fan %*+#, it is really just some common sense.

EDIT: and to add on to my Pippen argument, to add on to the fact that Bird LED his team to success just look at the stats as well. Bird averaged 24.3 ppgthroughout his career and is regarded as one of the best shooters of all time, Pippen averaged only 16.1 ppg. Bird ALSO averaged more assists and reboundsaveraging 6.3 and 10.0 respectively while Scottie averaged only 5.2 and 6.4. Also Bird was twice named NBA Finals MVP and 3 times NBA MVP 2 awards that pippennever won, as well as being on 9 NBA 1st teams to Pippen's 3. Add that to the fact that Bird LED his team to success. Which as stated before Scottie wasntable to do without MJ's LEADERSHIP. There really should be NO argument, i do not care what kind of fan you are. HOW please tell me HOW can any of you whothink pippen is #1 say that he is better than Bird? Someone please answer me because i am kind of intrigued at this point.

at calling me a saltyKnicks fan because i stated the obvious fact that Bird is better than Pippen

EDIT EDIT: and please give me an answer because i really dont understand the logic behind anyone saying Scottie is better than Larry unless they are eitherbiased Bulls fans/MJ lovers or ignorant about basketball... no one??

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by Enlightened Thought

Sorry for yall but Clyde>Stockton>>>>>>Kidd.

gotta disagree with you there.

stockton's assists total ain't getting touched for some time...


neither is Clyde as being the best defensive PG of all time and along with that he was a much better scorer as well as pretty much every other part of thegame than Stockton was except for assists...

not to mention clyde's 2 rings compared to Stock's 0 and you have to mention Clyde's 1970 game 7 vs West, Wilt and the Lakers as one of the bestgame 7 performances of all time. He had something like 36 points, 19 assits, 7 rebounds, and 7 steals. Clyde was EASILY better than Stockton.

 

[jordanxi45]

Pippen is one of my favorite players ever but in no way was he a better player than Larry Bird.

 

[DsLee]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

Originally Posted by K8be wan Kenobi

Originally Posted by DsLee559

Originally Posted by drewackall2

ten years from now. you can go ahead and add Lebron.



Kobe Won Kenobi the greatest next to MJ

I say 5 years you can add LeBron. Dude should've at least gotten a mention for bringing an overachieving Cavs team to the Finals in 07.

In 5 years? How do you know what he's gonna be doing 5 years from now?

And that Cavs team was a #2 seed... how were they overachieving? they were just in a piss poor conference and played a cupcake schedule

I agree

I say over achieving because without that Game 5 performance they wouldn't be in the Finals. And yes they were the 2 seed beating a better team whichwas the best team in the Eastern conference season; Detroit. The way Bron's been playing his first 5 years..why wouldn't one assume that in another 5years he wouldn't be worthy of being on that list. I'm not saying as the best SF ever but worthy of that list.

And I like Pippen on the list, but not best SF of all time. I kind of have a grudge on him for sitting out with time running out against the Knicksespecially with the team already down 0-2 in that series at that time. This was a Bulls team with no Jordan and they needed Scottie out there. Dudedidn't leave the bench because he couldn't have the final shot??? A shot that Kukoc made anyways... just something to think about when consideringGOAT for positions. And I loved those Bulls but yes, Larry Bird is better than Scottie Pippen

 

[1d]

Since this is still up here is my list

PG
Magic Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Oscar Robertson
Jason Kidd
Kevin Johnson

SG
Michael Jordan
Clyde Drexler
Jerry West
Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant

SF
Scottie Pippen
Larry Bird
Dominique Wilkins
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor

PF
Charles Barley
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan
Kevin Mchale
Shawn Kemp

C
Wilt Chamberlin
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwan

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by 1D

Since this is still up here is my list

PG
Magic Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Oscar Robertson
Jason Kidd
Kevin Johnson

SG
Michael Jordan
Clyde Drexler
Jerry West
Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant

SF
Scottie Pippen
Larry Bird
Dominique Wilkins
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor

PF
Charles Barley
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan
Kevin Mchale
Shawn Kemp

C
Wilt Chamberlin
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwan

Please tell me these aren't in order.

 

[the lowa]

good list all around

 

[bigmike23]

Kemp is a top 5 PF?

Kevin Johnson top 5 PG?

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by 1D

Since this is still up here is my list

PG
Magic Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Oscar Robertson
Jason Kidd
Kevin Johnson

SG
Michael Jordan
Clyde Drexler
Jerry West
Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant

SF
Scottie Pippen
Larry Bird
Dominique Wilkins
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor

PF
Charles Barley
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan
Kevin Mchale
Shawn Kemp

C
Wilt Chamberlin
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwan

Not having the assists AND steals leader on that is a damn shame.

 

[1d]

Kemp is a top 5 PF?

Kevin Johnson top 5 PG?
Point gurads were tough a better name may have ecaped me. But KJ dropped 20 and 10, for 4 season played in the deepest era for point guards andthrived.

Kemp yes I stand by that I saw him play.

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by 1D

Since this is still up here is my list

PG
Magic Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Oscar Robertson
Jason Kidd
Kevin Johnson

SG
Michael Jordan
Clyde Drexler
Jerry West
Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant

SF
Scottie Pippen
Larry Bird
Dominique Wilkins
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor

PF
Charles Barley
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan
Kevin Mchale
Shawn Kemp

C
Wilt Chamberlin
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwan

and i shouldnt have toexplain why again

if those are in orrder

again Scottie over Bird

than you got Kidd and KJ over Clyde AND Stockton

I mean to consider2 PGs that were good for stretches but never had any real team success as better than a guy like Clyde who is the best defensive PG of all time, led his teamto 2 titles, and had one of the best game 7s ever vs a legendary Lakers team is obsurd. Clyde is crazy underrated on here. if Clyde played at a time like the80s or 90s and had the kind of success that he had he would easily be considered one of the GOATs at PG. I mean just looking at his resume there is really noPG outside of Magic, Isia, and Oscar that can even touch his resume. And to throw guys like KJ and Kidd who he was better than stat wise and has more rings isjust ignorant.

PG.Robinson over both Hakeem AND Ewing

Damn it seems like all yallare ranking Hakeem either way too high or way too low very few have got him just right,.

Hakeem is a top 4-6 he HAS to be after the big 3 of Kareem, russel, and Wiltbut ahead of guys like the Admiral, Reed, etc. I think that 4-6 has to be guys like Hakeem, shaq, and Pat. all amazing centers but not up there with Kareem,Wilt, and Russel

 

[nycknicks105]

Hakeem>Robinson

 

[1d]

It wasn't trying to make all of them in order but most of them are. I personally think it's a tie between Hakeem and David, in fact I see Robinson,Shaq and Dream all on the same level. I know most of you feel Hakeem is much better good for you.

as better than a guy like Clyde who is the best defensive PG of all time

Gary Payton is the best defensive point guard of all time, just ask Mike in the 96 finals.

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by 1D

as better than a guy like Clyde who is the best defensive PG of all time

Gary Payton is the best defensive point guard of all time, just ask Mike in the 96 finals.


Please i love the Glove and he was BY FAR my favorite PG of the 90s. but he aint got *@%+ with Clyde. Pretty much nobody here has seen Clyde play includingme, but i have watched him as a Knicks fan and heard about him from older Knicks fans and seen his stats on was the truth. Clyde was LOCKDOWN on D and he cameinto the l as only a defensive PG, he has the rings he has the numbers. clyde is BY FAR the best defensive PG of all time coming from a guy who loved theglove. his defense, and his teawork, and his all around skills, along with his championships Clyde was the truth man. Very underrated on this forum. If heplayed in the 90s all of yall would be throwing his name out there with the likes of guys like Isiah.

 

[scottsauce88]

Pretty much nobody here has seen Clyde play including me,
so basically what your saying is you are basing your entire argument off of stats

Bird not only led his team to the finals by himself numrous times, but he won.
bird led his team to the finals by himself?????

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by 1D

It wasn't trying to make all of them in order but most of them are. I personally think it's a tie between Hakeem and David, in fact I see Robinson, Shaq and Dream all on the same level. I know most of you feel Hakeem is much better good for you.

as better than a guy like Clyde who is the best defensive PG of all time

Gary Payton is the best defensive point guard of all time, just ask Mike in the 96 finals.


jordan put up 27 a game in that finals.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by THE GR8

Originally Posted by 1D

as better than a guy like Clyde who is the best defensive PG of all time

Gary Payton is the best defensive point guard of all time, just ask Mike in the 96 finals.

Pretty much nobody here has seen Clyde play including me, but i have watched him as a Knicks fan


So you haven't seen him play but you have???

 

[DsLee]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Originally Posted by 1D

It wasn't trying to make all of them in order but most of them are. I personally think it's a tie between Hakeem and David, in fact I see Robinson, Shaq and Dream all on the same level. I know most of you feel Hakeem is much better good for you.

as better than a guy like Clyde who is the best defensive PG of all time

Gary Payton is the best defensive point guard of all time, just ask Mike in the 96 finals.

jordan put up 27 a game in that finals.


But did you see how frustrated Mike got at times during that Finals??? I've never watched Clyde..but all I know is GP stopped dudes and got to themmentally...He had Mike biting his jersey hard.

 

[fyalady]

Somone please add Jerry West in between MJ and Kobe already. Just wow

 

[1d]

Pretty much nobody here has seen Clyde play including me, but i have watched him as a Knicks fan and heard about him from older Knicks fans and seen his stats on was the truth.

Heck I have seen him play a few games. I never heard ofhim refered to as the best defensive pg outside of this thread. What are you basing this on if you never saw him play? I mean what point great guard didFraizer lock down?

WOW.. then i guess you stopped watching basketball in the 90s then too, because we've all seen Kevin Garnett play and Kemp isn't even better than him

Kemp is not even top 10

If you just look at states I could see someone taking KG over Kemp.

Kemp took his team farther than they had any business going. He never had a soild center heck he had to guard the best big ever night be it PF or center. I've seen Kemp crush the last really good Warriors team, frustate Barley at his best, outplay Dream, and Malone in playoff series, Clown Rodman and willhis team to the only back to back win the whole year vs greatest team ever in the 96 Finals. Prior to this year in a overrall weaker Western confrence in a league weaker at the center spot what has KG done in the playoffs.

Kemp stats that matter =
Houston Rockets
93 Lost NBA Western Conference Semifinals (4-3) versus Seattle Supersonics
96 Lost NBA Western Conference Semifinals (4-0) versus Seattle Supersonics

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by 1D

Heck I have seen him play a few games. I never heard of him refered to as the best defensive pg outside of this thread. What are you basing this on if you never saw him play? I mean what point great guard did Fraizer lock down?

I mean maybe his 7 all defensive 1st teams imply it. clyde is THE best defensive PG of all time.

i know i have never seen Clyde play live but stats dont lie and i have heard alot from numerous Knicks fans that have watched him play along with footage ofwatching him play myself althugh not live. i mean i have watched that game 7 in its entirely where he DOMINATED. Clyde made stealing the ball an art form.

some quotes from online...

Frazier was also one of the first players to make stealing the ball an art form. He would make sudden steals and surprise the offense. When asked about his defensive success, he answered that he did not believe in contact defense. Instead, he defended in such a manner that it appeared he was not playing defense. When he did so, the offensive player was often tricked into letting his guard down whereby Frazier would steal the ball with his quick hands.

On defense, Frazier stole the ball with impunity. It was said that he was so quick, he could pilfer the hubcaps off a moving car. One opponent described his hands as "quicker than a lizard's tongue." Perhaps the only thing that kept him from leading the league in steals is that the statistic wasn't kept during the first half of his career.

and i believe that he is still pretty high on the all time steals list

fact is i know Cluyde was a guy who would focus on defense. Not many guys today do that, Clyde was always all over his man and all over the ball and defensewas only part of his game. He is the epitome of swag and he had a great all around game and he was a great leader and an a clutch performer... i mean cansomeone PLEASE explain to me why people rate guys like Jaon Kidd or Kevin Johnson higher than him? Those fools dont stand ++$! with Clyde, its not even close.Its just because those guys are more modern, if Clyde played in the 90s he would be in that top 3-4 PG debate easily. You cannot ask more from a PG than whatClyde was. ultra quick, the best defender, great scorer, unselfish, and he almost averaged 5 boards on his career (which i believe is more than our startingcenter averaged this past year

). What im trying to say really isthat anybody who leaves Walyt clyde Fraizier off the top 5 list of PGs is ignorant about basketball history. No guy with that resume along with 2 rings and oneof the best clutch performances ever should be consider lower than guys like Kidd or KJ

 

[jsindaa]

Seems like there are alot of ignorant people, as far as basketball knowledge goes, because NEVER outside of this thread has he been mentioned as top 5. I meanmaybe in NY you'll find some homers that will agree but nowhere else.

 

[1d]

fact is i know Cluyde was a guy who would focus on defense. Not many guys today do that, Clyde was always all over his man and all over the ball and defense was only part of his game. He is the epitome of swag and he had a great all around game and he was a great leader and an a clutch performer... i mean can someone PLEASE explain to me why people rate guys like Jaon Kidd or Kevin Johnson higher than him? Those fools dont stand ++$! with Clyde, its not even close. Its just because those guys are more modern, if Clyde played in the 90s he would be in that top 3-4 PG debate easily. You cannot ask more from a PG than what Clyde was. ultra quick, the best defender, great scorer, unselfish, and he almost averaged 5 boards on his career (which i believe is more than our starting center averaged this past year

). What im trying to say really is that anybody who leaves Walyt clyde Fraizier off the top 5 list of PGs is ignorant about basketball history. No guy with that resume along with 2 rings and one of the best clutch performances ever should be consider lower than guys like Kidd or KJ
How do you know? Are you just googling this stuff? You are going pretty far to aurgue a player you never saw play. You have no games or noperformances to back any of this up. Again Who was he guarding back then so great as to to loft him in the best defensive PG status? Did you ever see KevinJohnson play in his prime because google often doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[yimoney23]

great list but I say Larry Bird is better than Pippen.

 

[commodity05]

what is all this talk about Hakeem not being up there with Kareem and Wilt?? why the hell not?? can u name me another player to win DPOY, Regular Season MVPand Finals MVP in the same year?? NO.... ..he wiped the floor with Ewing (overrated) and Robinson and Shaq, so how on earth can u put him in the same group asthem? all time leading shotblocker... and he is also in the top ten in blocks, scoring, rebounding, and steals, He is the only player in NBA history placed inthe top ten for all four categories.....also... in the top ten in blocks, scoring, rebounding, and steals.....he is the only player in NBA history placed inthe top ten for all four categories.....

after all that how do you not compare him to Kareem and Wilt and Russell? He is arguably their equal, or even better than them.