A Serious Discussion About The State of Hip-Hop

[trynafeelmink]

New Question, how long before this new version of rap gets a complete name change and white artist submerge it?

I ask this because this is the first iteration of rap where you don't need black culture in order for it to still be popular. When I say rap i'm specifically talking this Thug, Uzi, Yachty, XXX, lil whoeva & the dozens upon dozens of artist they have spawned.

Because when you look at what this genre is comprised of,

1) There is 0 authenticity required, you can literally come from anywhere and do & say whatever you please & the fans eat it up
2) There's no real need for good songwriting or lyrics, this music is fairly easy to reproduce because it doesn't call for authentic experiences and detailed descriptions.
3) The subject matter doesn't really indulge in black culture as previous versions of hip-hop have. It's basically all drug use, sex, and money. Again those have always been prevalent in hiphop, however there was way more context & and description to the songs which called for diversity.
4) Diversity is gone, the fans don't care about copying, they don't don't really want to hear an artist story. It doesn't matter if the flow has been used or the beat is eeirily similar, as i've been told it's "All about the vibe & the fun"
5) There was a cool factor at one point, being looked at as a lame would get you laughed out of your career. Nowadays it seems as if doing corny **** just amplifies your star.
6) The websites & blogs, the kids on youtube who discuss & consume this music etc etc..... seem to be overwhelmingly white. Complex, Vice,
Noisey & individual tastemakers who cover this version of the genre don't seem submerged in black culture.
7) As always the label heads, the radio station owners, TV network owners, Streaming sites are primarily white.

In summation of all those factors, let's get real here, old millionaire white men weren't exactly enthused to be pouring millions of dollars into an art form comprised of poor black people & giving them a platform to become rich themselves & create opportunity for their families. but it was a handsome investment and made them billions. It was a culture they couldn't sell w/o black people because the music, the critics, the style,the talent & the story all pertained to black culture.

However what rap has morphed into as illustrated in those 7 points up there, this version of rap doesn't call for experience in black culture at all. it has become an easy process to create & distribute this kind of artist & music. So with those two things in mind what stops Record execs from taking this sound, disassociating from the rap name, finding some white rappers who will appeal to a larger scale and multiplying their profits?

I mean it's JT & Miguel, Adelle & Chrissette Michelle, Bieber & Chris Brown, G Easy & any rapper making mainstream muisc..... America likes similar artist more when they are white, and at a time there was no way you could have authentic rap w/o black people because the two cultures were tied at the soul. This new version tho, it has no ties to black culture & doesn't call for authenticity. So to all those who claim that the reduction in value should be ignored because a "young ***** just gettin his check", at this rate no young ***** gonna be making checks off rap in 20 years.

 

[6pac]

I've been saying that it needs to be a separate genre and #they are gonna take advantage of our apprehension (for whatever reason) to make it one.

They gonna be called innovators and geniuses for doing the same **** Thug, Yachty, Swae and Future is doing now lol.

But then again I think it depends on what comes after this. If this style of music doesnt make it past the early 2020's then there might be no demographic for this to be a new genre. It just depends on what comes after this to see if this is another phase like ringtone rap or if this is truly a new genre. Once Swae/Thug/Yachty/Future move on to the next wave of rap then there might be no point because the white kids dont think its cool anymore.

But also it brings great potential for white entities to capitalize off of urban culture without including urban kids.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

New Question, how long before this new version of rap gets a complete name change and white artist submerge it?

I think it was Flesh Prince that was tryna say how innovative Post Malone is.

 

[dmvisrnb]

trynafeelmink that was some of the realest **** I've ever seen regarding this issue. Top to bottom I couldn't agree more

 

[6pac]

I think it was Flesh Prince that was tryna say how innovative Post Malone is.

mixing country/hollister background music with the mumble rap is still something i say is innovative.

im the first one to tell you that yung la and travis porter should be getting publishing from half of these ****** in an ideal world but there was still no one really doing that sound before Post.

if you disagree who was?

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Biting what's popular in hip hop and mixing it with country ain't innovative.

That's like saying Marky Mark was a innovator for tryna rap over that uptempo dance ****.

 

[trynafeelmink]

I've been saying that it needs to be a separate genre and #they are gonna take advantage of our apprehension (for whatever reason) to make it one.

They gonna be called innovators and geniuses for doing the same **** Thug, Yachty, Swae and Future is doing now lol.

But then again I think it depends on what comes after this. If this style of music doesnt make it past the early 2020's then there might be no demographic for this to be a new genre. It just depends on what comes after this to see if this is another phase like ringtone rap or if this is truly a new genre. Once Swae/Thug/Yachty/Future move on to the next wave of rap then there might be no point because the white kids dont think its cool anymore.

But also it brings great potential for white entities to capitalize off of urban culture without including urban kids.

I think the quicker this becomes a new genre the better, because that would allow kids to clearly differentiate between whateva this is called and hip-hop. It would help to preserve Hiphop and the music and culture that we love. That's not to say that fans or artist can't like both but in this current state i think new people getting into hiphop are gonna be more & more confused.

I see people online constantly talking about breaking old rules & having no direction, which in some cases it's great. IMO a lot of this innovation and lack of a code of conduct is hurting the culture more than helping it. Authenticity is a staple of any culture, Diversity is a staple of any culture, Genius & talent is a staple of any culture, & i think this whole wave is diminishing that slowly and making it easier for people to pose as if they really care about hiphop culture.

As far as this sound making it another few years, i think it will change here and there but in terms of the content, or the simplicity of the lyrics & production i see that continuing wholeheartedly.

1) SOME young kids already don't wanna hear music that isn't extremely hype, or has any kind of message that makes you think below surface level.
2) If the game was to move back towards having to make detailed & structured songs A lot of dudes would have no platform because that's not an easy talent for everyone & has to continue to be developed.

 

[6pac]

Biting what's popular in hip hop and mixing it with country ain't innovative.

That's like saying Marky Mark was a innovator for tryna rap over that uptempo dance ****.

but it is though
if youre going to break it down like that then nothing is innovative because everything is just "oh he just took _____ and mixed it with ______"

its easy to say that after the fact. if your homie came to you and said "im bout to start my trap country career" you'd laugh in that ***** face. you wouldnt even begin to be able to imagine the result of that sounding like this





who in urban music is he biting from to make music like the above? Keef? Future? Yung LA? Travis Scott or Porter?

Lowkey we wouldnt even be having this convo if he wasnt white.

 

[6pac]

I think the quicker this becomes a new genre the better, because that would allow kids to clearly differentiate between whateva this is called and hip-hop. It would help to preserve Hiphop and the music and culture that we love. That's not to say that fans or artist can't like both but in this current state i think new people getting into hiphop are gonna be more & more confused.

I see people online constantly talking about breaking old rules & having no direction, which in some cases it's great. IMO a lot of this innovation and lack of a code of conduct is hurting the culture more than helping it. Authenticity is a staple of any culture, Diversity is a staple of any culture, Genius & talent is a staple of any culture, & i think this whole wave is diminishing that slowly and making it easier for people to pose as if they really care about hiphop culture.

I was just about to edit my post and say that it becoming a new genre would make rap better because it would make people have to pick a side. Either you gonna be in this new genre of post mumble rap w/e or you gonna be a rapper and be judged by those rules. And the Lord Jamar Kool Moe Dee types that Vlad loves to ask about this music lol would know what theyre signing up for when they **** with this new genre and maybe even like it once the "rules" of rap are removed and you can just appreciate it for melody/cadence/catchiness.

but as always I feel like we're gonna be playing catch up to Iovine or Cohen finding a new white act to make the face of this new genre, if it becomes one.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

It's nothing innovative about that harmozing emo **** he does. _'s been doing that. Just cuz you take from somewhere and put it with something else does not make you a innovator.

 

[Peep Game]

I've been saying that it needs to be a separate genre and #they are gonna take advantage of our apprehension (for whatever reason) to make it one.

They gonna be called innovators and geniuses for doing the same **** Thug, Yachty, Swae and Future is doing now lol.

But then again I think it depends on what comes after this. If this style of music doesnt make it past the early 2020's then there might be no demographic for this to be a new genre. It just depends on what comes after this to see if this is another phase like ringtone rap or if this is truly a new genre. Once Swae/Thug/Yachty/Future move on to the next wave of rap then there might be no point because the white kids dont think its cool anymore.

But also it brings great potential for white entities to capitalize off of urban culture without including urban kids.

Logic, Macklemore, & G-Eazy, though ironically all 3 have a "please accept me" vibe in their music. All 3 are extremely popular while really not having to aim their music at black listeners, yet Juicy J, Chuck D, E-40, Black Thought, Too Short, and KRS One are all sprinkled across their albums just in case

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

trynafeelmink 6pac ...state of "hip-hop", as an industry. Not just the genre rap.

The industry means "a distinct group of productive or profit-making enterprises", which is sustained by the economic activity it produces.

If you look at football, for instance, it's an industry that predominantly has white men at the helm of its financial power.
Even if Colin Kaepernick inspired nearly all the black players to protest and sit out, they'd simply be replaced with white men of equal athletic abilities. If you look at tv & film, Netflix and Marvel were bold enough to keep Iron Fist white despite the strides society has made in accurate ethnic representation. You CANNOT stop white-ignorance, it's an irresistible force paradox created through ignorance.

What you CAN do, if you chose, is stop being ignorant and smarten up. Stop supporting enterprises within hip-hop culture that haphazardly places whites in positions of power, as default. That means even companies who hire blacks as their "face", but their position is actually devoid of policy-making influence.

For instance, "Genius" ...they started as "Rap Genius". And despite 90% of the company's appeal coming from deciphering rap lyrics, they dropped the "rap" out of the title and became just Genius, then expanded. Their editors are even white people, who may have some idea about the black aspect of rap. But ultimately it becomes white-driven because it reflects the white editors' tastes, values, and interests in black culture. This becomes a problem for the upward mobility of black people within hip-hop because now you have white people dictating to them how to be black and sell their image as black people. And it becomes not taste-making, but actual power, decision-making power.
(http://www.adweek.com/digital/genius-lauren-nostro-billy-disney-ken-partridge/)

Take a look at what happened when BET was purchased by Viacom in 2000... within five years it was completely gutted of that visceral "flava" that it once possessed. Same with Essence magazine, when it was acquired by TIME.

Five years is basically the customary time period for most large black-owned media companies to be acquired, and a growth strategy to be executed. Most M&A deals start off as minority share holders, then they offer their "power" to the company before completely taking over.

And at the helm of most of these M&A are old white men, who play it close to the hip (hiring close friends, classmates, or family).

Like with any business or industry, there's nothing wrong with diversity. But the problem arises when white peoples' justification for prevailing whiteness is that they happen to be "the most qualified", all of the time. And that's usually what happens when it comes to rap and hip-hop as an industry. White people tend to misconstrue effort as actual talent, and the bar for talent got lowered, really really low. So as with any business, the "M&A's" started to influence the talent and subsequently the demand.

I watched that Public Enemies: Jay-Z vs Kanye special the other day and almost died when Hot Karl was talking about being in the room with other rappers as they laughed at Kanye playing "Jesus Walks", almost years before it was released. I almost died because dude was acting like he's reminiscing from a throne among a rapper's pantheon, despite the only reason people even know he's a rapper or author is that his book is called "Kanye West Owes Me $300".

 

[trynafeelmink]

trynafeelmink 6pac ...state of "hip-hop", as an industry. Not just the genre rap.

The industry means "a distinct group of productive or profit-making enterprises", which is sustained by the economic activity it produces.

If you look at football, for instance, it's an industry that predominantly has white men at the helm of its financial power.
Even if Colin Kaepernick inspired nearly all the black players to protest and sit out, they'd simply be replaced with white men of equal athletic abilities. If you look at tv & film, Netflix and Marvel were bold enough to keep Iron Fist white despite the strides society has made in accurate ethnic representation. You CANNOT stop white-ignorance, it's an irresistible force paradox created through ignorance.

What you CAN do, if you chose, is stop being ignorant and smarten up. Stop supporting enterprises within hip-hop culture that haphazardly places whites in positions of power, as default. That means even companies who hire blacks as their "face", but their position is actually devoid of policy-making influence.

For instance, "Genius" ...they started as "Rap Genius". And despite 90% of the company's appeal coming from deciphering rap lyrics, they dropped the "rap" out of the title and became just Genius, then expanded. Their editors are even white people, who may have some idea about the black aspect of rap. But ultimately it becomes white-driven because it reflects the white editors' tastes, values, and interests in black culture. This becomes a problem for the upward mobility of black people within hip-hop because now you have white people dictating to them how to be black and sell their image as black people. And it becomes not taste-making, but actual power, decision-making power.
(http://www.adweek.com/digital/genius-lauren-nostro-billy-disney-ken-partridge/)

Take a look at what happened when BET was purchased by Viacom in 2000... within five years it was completely gutted of that visceral "flava" that it once possessed. Same with Essence magazine, when it was acquired by TIME.

Five years is basically the customary time period for most large black-owned media companies to be acquired, and a growth strategy to be executed. Most M&A deals start off as minority share holders, then they offer their "power" to the company before completely taking over.

And at the helm of most of these M&A are old white men, who play it close to the hip (hiring close friends, classmates, or family).

Like with any business or industry, there's nothing wrong with diversity. But the problem arises when white peoples' justification for prevailing whiteness is that they happen to be "the most qualified", all of the time. And that's usually what happens when it comes to rap and hip-hop as an industry. White people tend to misconstrue effort as actual talent, and the bar for talent got lowered, really really low. So as with any business, the "M&A's" started to influence the talent and subsequently the demand.

I watched that Public Enemies: Jay-Z vs Kanye special the other day and almost died when Hot Karl was talking about being in the room with other rappers as they laughed at Kanye playing "Jesus Walks", almost years before it was released. I almost died because dude was acting like he's reminiscing from a throne among a rapper's pantheon, despite the only reason people even know he's a rapper or author is that his book is called "Kanye West Owes Me $300".

As an industry i really wish we had an answer, but it's gonna be HARD for black people to independently take back this industry. We're talking an industry that has had most of the same figureheads before one rhyme was even spit. They have ALL the connections, so trying to up heave them from power is gonna be a task.

IDK if you remember this but there was this rumor that back in the early 2000's Suge, J prince, Irv, Rocafella were in talks of possibly forming their own entity, within months murder Inc was touched by the feds, I believe suge was pressed too. In this society money is the power and quite frankly we don't have enough power to fairly fight back.

Not to mention everytime a black entertainer gets rich, people expect them to turn into Malcolm X and change an industry thats been running as so for almost a century in a few years. The amount of times i've heard people call Jay, Diddy, Dre, etc etc ****s is ridiculous. And it's not because they haven't helped in terms of black business or black causes...... but it's because they haven't helped enough. Or because they haven't invested every bit of their money and took no help from a white person as if that decision is that easy.

These Executives know good and damn well these black entertainers are what's dictating culture right now, they know just how much of an influence they have over American culture as a whole not just black culture. So with that said it's not hard to see why anyone who tries to get from under their direction and do things completely by themselves is quickly dismissed.

At the end of the day we live in a capitalistic society, and one or two billionaires can't do **** in a war against a side that has a few 100 of em.

 

[Magic33]

Perfect example of rap in 2017

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Perfect example of rap in 2017

Jacked his entire flow

 

[6pac]

Girls love that **** tho lol. IMO they ain't react to a track like this since Itty Bitty Piggy.

I feel like Bodak is only a hit because collectively the culture wanted to see Cardi get one because her personality and charisma is so dope. If that was anyone else it wouldn't have made it past the Spinrilla Singles page.

As an industry i really wish we had an answer, but it's gonna be HARD for black people to independently take back this industry. We're talking an industry that has had most of the same figureheads before one rhyme was even spit. They have ALL the connections, so trying to up heave them from power is gonna be a task.

IDK if you remember this but there was this rumor that back in the early 2000's Suge, J prince, Irv, Rocafella were in talks of possibly forming their own entity, within months murder Inc was touched by the feds, I believe suge was pressed too. In this society money is the power and quite frankly we don't have enough power to fairly fight back.

Not to mention everytime a black entertainer gets rich, people expect them to turn into Malcolm X and change an industry thats been running as so for almost a century in a few years. The amount of times i've heard people call Jay, Diddy, Dre, etc etc ****s is ridiculous. And it's not because they haven't helped in terms of black business or black causes...... but it's because they haven't helped enough. Or because they haven't invested every bit of their money and took no help from a white person as if that decision is that easy.

These Executives know good and damn well these black entertainers are what's dictating culture right now, they know just how much of an influence they have over American culture as a whole not just black culture. So with that said it's not hard to see why anyone who tries to get from under their direction and do things completely by themselves is quickly dismissed.

At the end of the day we live in a capitalistic society, and one or two billionaires can't do **** in a war against a side that has a few 100 of em.

What Hov is doing with Roc Nation is dope (expanding into sports and stuff), but IDK if that counts as black owned bc isn't Live Nation still the parent company?

A black owned distribution entity would be dope though. It would be dope if we saw it by 2030. Ye, Puff, Dre, Jay, Russell, maybe some non music dudes just putting in $$$ like Floyd and Bron. I feel like it can happen.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Girls love that **** tho lol. IMO they ain't react to a track like this since Itty Bitty Piggy.

I feel like Bodak is only a hit because collectively the culture wanted to see Cardi get one because her personality and charisma is so dope. If that was anyone else it wouldn't have made it past the Spinrilla Singles page.



What Hov is doing with Roc Nation is dope (expanding into sports and stuff), but IDK if that counts as black owned bc isn't Live Nation still the parent company?

A black owned distribution entity would be dope though. It would be dope if we saw it by 2030. Ye, Puff, Dre, Jay, Russell, maybe some non music dudes just putting in $$$ like Floyd and Bron. I feel like it can happen.

yea he absolutely has a partnership(atleast with the music) & i see people give him **** for it as if it isn't smart business & as if he isn't building more leverage to be able to really go out and do it fully independent.

I think a lot of these guys ctch so much flack for partnering with white brands, but never give them the benefit of the doubt. These guys are playing in uncharted territory & there hasn't been a blueprint set for relatively young black men who are representative of hiphop/street culture. They are gonna have mishaps, they are gonna do some deals that aren't always in the best interest of their community (Jay involvement in Barclays) but those misshaps can't be used to indict them as ****s, or pawns which i see coming from the mouths of mostly black people

 

[Peep Game]

New Question, how long before this new version of rap gets a complete name change and white artist submerge it?

I ask this because this is the first iteration of rap where you don't need black culture in order for it to still be popular. When I say rap i'm specifically talking this Thug, Uzi, Yachty, XXX, lil whoeva & the dozens upon dozens of artist they have spawned.

Because when you look at what this genre is comprised of,

1) There is 0 authenticity required, you can literally come from anywhere and do & say whatever you please & the fans eat it up
2) There's no real need for good songwriting or lyrics, this music is fairly easy to reproduce because it doesn't call for authentic experiences and detailed descriptions.
3) The subject matter doesn't really indulge in black culture as previous versions of hip-hop have. It's basically all drug use, sex, and money. Again those have always been prevalent in hiphop, however there was way more context & and description to the songs which called for diversity.
4) Diversity is gone, the fans don't care about copying, they don't don't really want to hear an artist story. It doesn't matter if the flow has been used or the beat is eeirily similar, as i've been told it's "All about the vibe & the fun"
5) There was a cool factor at one point, being looked at as a lame would get you laughed out of your career. Nowadays it seems as if doing corny **** just amplifies your star.
6) The websites & blogs, the kids on youtube who discuss & consume this music etc etc..... seem to be overwhelmingly white. Complex, Vice,
Noisey & individual tastemakers who cover this version of the genre don't seem submerged in black culture.
7) As always the label heads, the radio station owners, TV network owners, Streaming sites are primarily white.

In summation of all those factors, let's get real here, old millionaire white men weren't exactly enthused to be pouring millions of dollars into an art form comprised of poor black people & giving them a platform to become rich themselves & create opportunity for their families. but it was a handsome investment and made them billions. It was a culture they couldn't sell w/o black people because the music, the critics, the style,the talent & the story all pertained to black culture.

However what rap has morphed into as illustrated in those 7 points up there, this version of rap doesn't call for experience in black culture at all. it has become an easy process to create & distribute this kind of artist & music. So with those two things in mind what stops Record execs from taking this sound, disassociating from the rap name, finding some white rappers who will appeal to a larger scale and multiplying their profits?

I mean it's JT & Miguel, Adelle & Chrissette Michelle, Bieber & Chris Brown, G Easy & any rapper making mainstream muisc..... America likes similar artist more when they are white, and at a time there was no way you could have authentic rap w/o black people because the two cultures were tied at the soul. This new version tho, it has no ties to black culture & doesn't call for authenticity. So to all those who claim that the reduction in value should be ignored because a "young ***** just gettin his check", at this rate no young ***** gonna be making checks off rap in 20 years.

Not a single lie told in this post

 

[Xennial]

Logic is black though

Logic, Macklemore, & G-Eazy, though ironically all 3 have a "please accept me" vibe in their music. All 3 are extremely popular while really not having to aim their music at black listeners, yet Juicy J, Chuck D, E-40, Black Thought, Too Short, and KRS One are all sprinkled across their albums just in case

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

Perfect example of rap in 2017

Don't you think you're kinda being a hater?

 

[Magic33]

If hating bad music makes me a hater, that would be me

From

Stripper > Instagram Thot >Reality Star > Charting Rapper

If you don't see where that's everything wrong with music and society today I don't know what to tell you.

It shows how low the bar is in talent and the fact you can totally jack someone and your song can be bigger than theirs.

Like I said before, it makes everyone think they can be a rapper.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

If hating bad music makes me a hater, that would be me

From Stripper > Instagram Thot >Reality Star > Charting Rapper

If you don't see where that's everything wrong with music and society today I don't know what to tell you.

It shows how low the bar is in talent and the fact you can totally jack someone and your song can be bigger than theirs.

Like I said before, it makes everyone think they can be a rapper.

Man, you keep perpetually embarrassing online in this thread by trying to be this great "defender of hip-hop", but you have no idea what you're talking about...

The song Bodak Yellow is literally about her not being a stripper anymore, and being low key gang affiliated.

You're letting a young 24-year-old stunt on you about hip-hop, the Bronx, and she never met you a day in her life.


I don't dance now, I make money moves (wave, ayy)
Say I don't gotta dance, I make money move (ooh, ooh)
If I see you and I don't speak, that means I don't **** with you (ah)
I'm a boss, you a worker, *****, I make bloody moves (bags)

Jacking for beats is nothing new. Hip-hop is literally a braggadocious sub-culture about showing tough love while competing over who can do it the best (in their own way), and do it to death. It's a form of expression, always has been. This applies to the music, also the fashion, graffiti, dancing, and emcee'ing.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

 

[Magic33]

Man, you keep perpetually embarrassing online in this thread by trying to be this great "defender of hip-hop", but you have no idea what you're talking about...

Something is severely wrong with your intelligence, maturity, comprehension and critical thinking skills. You literally had three post and searched for clips about absolutely nothing I said.

But I get you're trolling now just wanting to argue, because you're bored. As if we don't remember you created this topic.

You need a hobby b it's pretty pathetic