A Serious Discussion About The State of Hip-Hop

[Magic33]

4:44 wasn't a classic, and people tend to overlook Jay-Z is almost 50 years old and just NOW coming to the realizations expressed on that album.

It just came out

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

It just came out

Notice YN been avoiding ranking 4:44 as a "classic" album. And Jay-Z is his "mans".

 

[Magic33]

And who is Elliott Wilson? His opinion means as much as anyone elses.

You might not think it's classic, but someone else might. It's an opinion not a fact. That's why I quoted you in the first place.

 

[dmvisrnb]

I just feel like there are no standards anymore.

You don't have to be great to be at the top. You don't have to make groundbreaking videos, you don't have to be innovative, and you don't have to drop classic albums to win the fans.

So as an artist, why work hard to make timeless music when the listeners will accept ANY level of effort that you put out, simply because it's what is presented to them?

If artists were held accountable for their work as they used to, hip hop would still be amazing. I don't care how popular the art form is, the overall quality is drastically decreased.

 

[SoleByThePound]

The title of this thread should be, "A Serious Discussion About The State of Rap". Hip-Hop is the culture and all that's being discussed in here is Rap.

 

[alexody]

I just feel like there are no standards anymore.

PERFECT

 

[Lizakers]

10 yrs ago I thought Blu would save hip hop *sigh*

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

And who is Elliott Wilson? His opinion means as much as anyone elses.

You might not think it's classic, but someone else might. it's an opinon not a fact. That's why I quoted you in the first place.

This comment makes no sense because for any album to become classic it has to not only do well in sales but be relevant in terms of popularity, which depends solely on popular OPINION! You're basing 4:44's validity on the popularity of opinion. Hence the reason for this thread, low standards, and ineptitude affecting the overall state of hip-hop as an industry. And culture.

The title of this thread should be, "A Serious Discussion About The State of Rap". Hip-Hop is the culture and all that's being discussed in here is Rap.

But haven't we've discussed more than just rap since the first post?

10 yrs ago I thought Blu would save hip hop *sigh*

 

[Magic33]

This comment makes no sense because for any album to become classic it has to not only do well in sales but be relevant in terms of popularity, which depends solely on popular OPINION! You're basing 4:44's validity on the popularity of opinion. Hence the reason for this thread, low standards, and ineptitude affecting the overall state of hip-hop as an industry. And culture.

So you have a election to determine what albums are classic? Where and when do they do this at?

What did It Takes A Nation Of Millions sell?

What about Long Live The Kane?

What did Paid In Full sell the first week?

So those aren't classics, because a 21 year old doesn't know about them? They aren't classics because they didn't sell enough?

Hip hop is a joke, because of fans like you That's why I always blame the fans instead of the artist.

 

[SoleByThePound]

But haven't we've discussed more than just rap since the first post?

Please quote any talk that is discussing the culture as a whole and not just the music. I haven't seen anything discussed about graffiti, b-boying or the DJ. These elements of the culture generally get ignored here and Rap music erroneously gets called Hip-Hop.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

So you have a election to determine what albums are classic? Where and when do they do this at?

What did It Takes A Nation Of Millions sell?

What about Long Live The Kane?

What did Paid In Full sell the first week?

So those aren't classics, because a 21 year old doesn't know about them? They aren't classics because they didn't sell enough?

Hip hop is a joke, because of fans like you That's why I always blame the fans instead of the artist.

It's "an election", not "a election". Secondly, what's with the egregious assumption that age has any bearing on someone's musical tastes and knowledge? If there's any joke to take away from this, it's the fact that you actually believe that you're in a position to be taken seriously on the matter when you can't even identify the use of proper indefinite articles in a sentence. Then you blame me, the threadstarter who obviously thought the subject was worth discussing, and not yourself, the artists, or industry people for their low expectations and standards.

At least I provide some sort of talking points for things I discuss. Your attempts at a logical argument are easily debased because you're making it anecdotal, then arguing that any personal opinion besides yours is null and void.

Please quote any talk that is discussing the culture as a whole and not just the music. I haven't seen anything discussed about graffiti, b-boying or the DJ. These elements of the culture generally get ignored here and Rap music erroneously gets called Hip-Hop.

I don't have to quote anything, this is literally a sneaker forum. Any assistance with reading comprehension would not only be considered a courtesy, but also at my personal discretion. However, if you look at post #5, I'm clearly discussing hip-hop as an industry.

 

[SoleByThePound]

I don't have to quote anything, this is literally a sneaker forum. Any assistance with reading comprehension would not only be considered a courtesy, but also at my personal discretion. However, if you look at post #5, I'm clearly discussing hip-hop as an industry.

Again, you're talking specifically about the Rap industry and not Hip Hop culture, which you clearly can't grasp. Thanks for proving my point; I'm out this garbage thread. Best of luck with it.

 

[Magic33]

It's "an election", not "a election". Secondly, what's with the egregious assumption that age has any bearing on someone's musical tastes and knowledge? If there's any joke to take away from this, it's the fact that you actually believe that you're in a position to be taken seriously on the matter when you can't even identify the use of proper indefinite articles in a sentence. Then you blame me, the threadstarter who obviously thought the subject was worth discussing, and not yourself, the artists, or industry people for their low expectations and standards.

At least I provide some sort of talking points for things I discuss. Your attempts at a logical argument are easily debased because you're making it anecdotal, then arguing that any personal opinion besides yours is null and void.

It's so easy, yet you conveniently ignored everything I said.

You contradict yourself from one sentence to the next.

And if you're going to do the little grammar policing to boost up your self esteeem to attempt to win any argument you can, make sure your **** is right

But here's your for presenting the same tired *** thread that has been presented multiple times.

 

[maliz]

Internet has changed it for the worse from a fan perspective.But it changed for the better for the artist.K.Gates,Kendrick,GHerbo,F.Gibbs,Ross,Slim Thug,L.E.S,ZRO.Most artist i like range from mid 20,s to late 30,s.

The difference now is that Radio is so much controlled nowadays.That if a certain type of rapper thats not of the same type of style of whats popular today.They wont get there shine based off of just making quality music.Theyll have to collaborate with a current popular artist to get in rotation.

I mean.Put it this way.Outkast didn't have to collaborate with Biggie to get on radio.8Ball & MJG or Scarface didnt have to collaborate with 2pac to get on radio.UGK or Trick Daddy didnt have to collaborate with Dr.Dre to get on radio.

Back then if you where a dope MC with quality music.then Radio would support your music no matter what region you where from.Songs like Cube=Today was a good day,Steady Mobbin got on radio.Nas=If i Ruled the World,Street Dreams original and remix where on radio.

If we where going off yesterday standards.Dave East,Herb,Gibbs would be heavy on Radio right now.The Streets/People controlled the game more.You just had to be good and represent your city or state.Now if the hottest rapper wears colored dreads and moans with autotune over a trap beat.Then youll have a 100 more new rappers biting it.

Individuality is not celebrated anymore also.Its almost expected for a new rapper to get inline and follow the current trend.I miss seeing Rappers from the East Coast wearing dookie ropes or army fatigues with Timbs while riding in jeeps.Or southern Rappers wearing polo with Gold fronts while driving a fixed up old school car with Candy Paint and Rims.

West Coast artist with khakis and Chuck T,s ridin in impalas with hydraulics.The individual aspect of it is long gone.The funny part about it all.Is that some people think it has progressed.How has it progressed if the majority of artist want to dress and sound the same.The artist i named earlier are an exception.But im talking about the majority of Rappers today.

You basically described the same copycat mentality but based on region. Also, internet and social media wasnt around then nor as assessible. The world was much bigger then.

 

[mgrand15]

I really wish fans would learn to appreciate the present more and actually support the hip hop they want to listen to. I don't care what era you're talking about - all the stuff being complained about in this thread was going on back in the day. Nostalgia really filters the memory.

 

[Magic33]

I really wish fans would learn to appreciate the present more and actually support the hip hop they want to listen to. I don't care what era you're talking about - all the stuff being complained about in this thread was going on back in the day. Nostalgia really filters the memory.

People say this, but never go in to detail. What was the same about it? Did you just hear this or you know this, because it's a difference. Because it existed doesn't mean it's the same. Football in the 60's isn't the same as it is in 2017.

Was Vanilla Ice a respected MC? What about Hammer? Red Head Kingpin? Kid N Play? Tone Loc? Sir Mix A Lot? Fat Boys?

So no, it's a big difference in this era and the 80's and 90's.

Being pop, crossing over, selling out, rapping about nonsense, and not being lyrical are celebrated and even pushed and promoted.

 

[mikedalton]

Internet has changed it for the worse from a fan perspective.But it changed for the better for the artist.K.Gates,Kendrick,GHerbo,F.Gibbs,Ross,Slim Thug,L.E.S,ZRO.Most artist i like range from mid 20,s to late 30,s.

The difference now is that Radio is so much controlled nowadays.That if a certain type of rapper thats not of the same type of style of whats popular today.They wont get there shine based off of just making quality music.Theyll have to collaborate with a current popular artist to get in rotation.

I mean.Put it this way.Outkast didn't have to collaborate with Biggie to get on radio.8Ball & MJG or Scarface didnt have to collaborate with 2pac to get on radio.UGK or Trick Daddy didnt have to collaborate with Dr.Dre to get on radio.

Back then if you where a dope MC with quality music.then Radio would support your music no matter what region you where from.Songs like Cube=Today was a good day,Steady Mobbin got on radio.Nas=If i Ruled the World,Street Dreams original and remix where on radio.

If we where going off yesterday standards.Dave East,Herb,Gibbs would be heavy on Radio right now.The Streets/People controlled the game more.You just had to be good and represent your city or state.Now if the hottest rapper wears colored dreads and moans with autotune over a trap beat.Then youll have a 100 more new rappers biting it.

Individuality is not celebrated anymore also.Its almost expected for a new rapper to get inline and follow the current trend.I miss seeing Rappers from the East Coast wearing dookie ropes or army fatigues with Timbs while riding in jeeps.Or southern Rappers wearing polo with Gold fronts while driving a fixed up old school car with Candy Paint and Rims.

West Coast artist with khakis and Chuck T,s ridin in impalas with hydraulics.The individual aspect of it is long gone.The funny part about it all.Is that some people think it has progressed.How has it progressed if the majority of artist want to dress and sound the same.The artist i named earlier are an exception.But im talking about the majority of Rappers today.

How is that individuality if you are saying every from this coast wore this and did that, that is following the trend??? Rap is just different now idk why its such a bad thing. Just like rap in the 2000s is different from rap in the 90s. How is that so hard to understand?

I was listening to the Vic Mensa interview and he said in one of his songs he had like a shot at lil yachty I think and Jay Z told him to take the bar out. Because why are you hating on another black man that's just tryna secure his bag and provide for his family. Black people are so hateful against each other its insane and not just rap but everything.

Example my homie got his gender reveal posted on The Shade Room's IG, go check it out lol. but anyway the way he did it was his baby momma threw him and alley and he dunked the ball in the hoop and powder came out the rim. Some of the comments on that video are insane so much hatred over a freaking gender reveal. It's really sad.

 

[kingkoopa]

the internet ****ed everything up

I've been preaching this for years.

Everyone looks and sounds the same.

I remember when yiu could tell where the rapper was from by his flow, beat, and dress code.

I also miss labels.

When you got a cross label feature, it was EPIC.

You only featured dudes on your label.

DR, BB, NL, CM, T6, SSD.

 

[Magic33]

How is that individuality if you are saying every from this coast wore this and did that, that is following the trend??? Rap is just different now idk why its such a bad thing. Just like rap in the 2000s is different from rap in the 90s. How is that so hard to understand?

I was listening to the Vic Mensa interview and he said in one of his songs he had like a shot at lil yachty I think and Jay Z told him to take the bar out. Because why are you hating on another black man that's just tryna secure his bag and provide for his family. Black people are so hateful against each other its insane and not just rap but everything.

Example my homie got his gender reveal posted on The Shade Room's IG, go check it out lol. but anyway the way he did it was his baby momma threw him and alley and he dunked the ball in the hoop and powder came out the rim. Some of the comments on that video are insane so much hatred over a freaking gender reveal. It's really sad.

There is no longer regionalism in hip hop.

You can't watch a video with the sound down and now where someone is from.

That's both good and bad. I thought it was always stupid, because black people and hip hop were the only ones who did that. But it did give you insight to how others lived.

Like Nore talking about Colors, that was real. I knew nothing about LA until Colors and Ice T and NWA.

 

[mgrand15]

People say this, but never go in to detail. What was the same about it? Did you just hear this or you know this, because it's a difference. Because it existed doesn't mean it's the same. Football in the 60's isn't the same as it is in 2017.

Was Vanilla Ice a respected MC? What about Hammer? Red Head Kingpin? Kid N Play? Tone Loc? Sir Mix A Lot? Fat Boys?

So no, it's a big difference in this era and the 80's and 90's.

Being pop, crossing over, selling out, rapping about nonsense, and not being lyrical are celebrated and even pushed and promoted.

What does respected mean in your context? Hammer, Vanilla Ice and all those guys sold a ton, were everywhere and made a lot of money. If there was social media back then, there'd be a ton of people riding for them. No one was calling them lyrical or calling them the greatest - but they were popular. Just like the party rappers of now.

Being pop and crossing over has always been necessary man. All the GOAT rappers had a handful of songs they thought would work for the radio on each album. Look at Jays catalog. Look at 50s. Eminem. Wayne. FULL of blatant radio pop attempts. It was 100% celebrated and defended back then.

This is too broad of a conversation without picking a specific 5 year window or something. And without picking a specific topic.

 

[Magic33]

I've been preaching this for years.

Everyone looks and sounds the same.

I remember when yiu could tell where the rapper was from by his flow, beat, and dress code.

I also miss labels.

When you got a cross label feature, it was EPIC.

You only featured dudes on your label.

DR, BB, NL, CM, T6, SSD.

I miss posse cuts

Where everyone tried to out due their peer. Where you had debates on who had the best verse.

 

[kingkoopa]

PS Jody Breeze had next.....

**** Jazze Pha

 

[kingkoopa]

I miss posse cuts

Where everyone tried to out due their peer. Where you had debates on who had the best verse.

To this day I hold Hot Boys GW at such a high standard.

Them boys went IN!

 

[Magic33]

What does respected mean in your context? Hammer, Vanilla Ice and all those guys sold a ton, were everywhere and made a lot of money. If there was social media back then, there'd be a ton of people riding for them. No one was calling them lyrical or calling them the greatest - but they were popular. Just like the party rappers of now.

Being pop and crossing over has always been necessary man. All the GOAT rappers had a handful of songs they thought would work for the radio on each album. Look at Jays catalog. Look at 50s. Eminem. Wayne. FULL of blatant radio pop attempts. It was 100% celebrated and defended back then.

This is too broad of a conversation without picking a specific 5 year window or something. And without picking a specific topic.

Respect meant everything.

It means Kool G Rap and Rakim influencing Nas and Big Pun.

Selling didn't matter. It was the respect of your peers. That's why Kane, Rakim and KRS can tour the world 30 years later. They were popular AND respected.

Rob Base had his lane, but it wasn't the same. Nobody is going to say Rob Base influenced them. Most people wouldn't know who Rob Base was if he walked in a room. You would know who Chuck D is. You will know who Tupac was. Your legacy means more than money. What people think about you, your legacy and your music lives on even when you're not living. Money is temporary.

 

[mgrand15]

Respect meant everything.

It means Kool G Rap and Rakim influencing Nas and Big Pun.

Selling didn't matter. It was the respect of your peers. That's why Kane, Rakim and KRS can tour the world 30 years later. They were popular AND respected.

Rob Base had his lane, but it wasn't the same. Nobody is going to say Rob Base influenced them. Most people wouldn't know who Rob Base was if he walked in a room. You would know who Chuck D is. You will know who Tupac was. Your legacy means more than money. What people think about you, your legacy and your music lives on even when you're not living. Money is temporary.

I get what you're saying but the pop, unlyrical acts were still around in the early 90s too. And since it was popular, there were definitely copycats.

When you talk legacy now - you're talking about guys like Kendrick, Kanye, J Cole. Guys who are VERY popular and at the top but still try to make great music with a message.

I feel like you're looking at the guys that dominate social media discussions on a daily basis like Yachty, Playboi Carti, etc and generalizing the entire game. There's a lot of people still straight rapping now. There's a lot of people not making bubble gum stuff.