BIG 3 END UP NOT GETTING THE LOAN!!!

[dublbagn]

Originally Posted by IHeartBoost

DublBagn

Stop while your ahead, like the Big 3, your replies are a losing battle.

Why even try to sit here and justify the Big 3 when they are at fault for what is occuring and then argue in the UAW advantage when they kill the bill? You don't see Honda, Toyota, Nissan asking the government for a blank check?
Honda, Toyota and Nissan all got help from their government in some form or fashion......how do you think they grew so quickly....and even thosecompanies agree with the Big 3 getting help from the government....

http://forums.motortrend....honda-asks-***/index.html

this is just one article I found.....google shows a ton of articles on the subject.....

 

[biggie62]

More like millions who'll lose their jobs. It's a recession. People are bound to lose jobs. You can thank all your government officials for supportingthese companies before. And now we have to lean out the fat. Let's put it this way. It's better a few suffer than a whole country. And look at it thisway, the big 3 will declare bankruptcy. Totally restructure and be more successful. Maybe as successful as they were in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. These people whowork at the big 3 unions are way overpaid for what they do and the education level they have on avg. They make on avg 70 dollars per hour. Japanese companiespay their employees between 40-50 on avg. Why can't the big 3 do the same and remain competitive. The unions are just too greedy. Take for example sportsunions. See unions are great, but unions in the USA have way too much power.

 

[executive76]

Lets say one of the companies go under...what happens to all the cars? Auction?I'll take a Escalade and/or a challenger for cheap

 

[shatterkneesinc]

Originally Posted by AG 47

Originally Posted by obie21

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

If you can't run your business well enough to turn a profit, you should go out of business... that's the rule for most businesses. The "big
3" shouldn't be given special treatment - neither should any of the companies included in the big bank bailout. Bailouts in general area
anti-capitalist, socialist, non-conservative ways of giving unfair treatment to those that run big companies.




Good riddance.

i agree

What about the thousands who are destined to lose their jobs because of management's mistakes?

That's what I don't like.

The same "thousands" of people who demanded ridiculous wages and benefits from management?

The same "thousands" of people who know that without the bailout they will lose their jobs and yet single handily destroy the bailout bill?

seriously, who do these union workers think they are? They are in no position to make these demands and especially during this economical crisis.

 

[lazy b]

Originally Posted by AG 47

Originally Posted by obie21

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

If you can't run your business well enough to turn a profit, you should go out of business... that's the rule for most businesses. The "big
3" shouldn't be given special treatment - neither should any of the companies included in the big bank bailout. Bailouts in general area
anti-capitalist, socialist, non-conservative ways of giving unfair treatment to those that run big companies.




Good riddance.

i agree

What about the thousands who are destined to lose their jobs because of management's mistakes?

That's what I don't like.

Part of this could have been easily avoided if they didn't give into union demands all the time. There is no reason why a FACTORY workershould be making $78/hr, none. They were overpaying for their labor which had an effect on their profit or lack thereof at the end of the year.

 

[trueshotaura]

People always, ALWAYS ignore the fact that foreign companies pay such a small import tax which is why they thrive here. Other countries PROTECT their autoindustry with high import taxes to make their domestics more attractive. And to the people who complain about the worker's wages, the wages only accountfor 10% of the actual car. There are honestly too many ignorant comments in here that it's hardly worth the time going through each one.

 

[thunderchunk69]

Originally Posted by DublBagn

we are going to lose at least one auto company before the end of the month....this recession is going to get even worse and get ready for the stock market to fall big time tomorrow....

 

[joe mcknight is ballin]

damn markets are getting hammered tomorrow and i got a lot of shorts going.

 

[loseyasole]

companies practicing bad business will go out of business but the real concern is manufacturing.....what ended wwii was the ability to convert factories intohigh production machines...America would lose a leg of its manufacturing body if any of these three companies would lose their plants...America would face hugeproblems in keeping up with the high production outputs of other countries.

 

[dublbagn]

^^^you make it sound like all the union workers are in the senate hearing voicing their opinions...its union mismanagement at this point...the Unions have heldan axe to the head of the Big 3 for a long time....

unions in general are no longer needed (in this country) to provide workers with what they "deserve" .... I agree that the unions are not a good lookfor the auto industry...but they demanded a ton of stuff in the mid 80's and the Big 3 gave it to them, because they had to. If they didnt give concessionsthe workers would walk out....

What happened today was nothing more than politics at its best....people pushing for positions that will get them face time in the media....

and Union workers dont make $70 something dollars an hour....if you were to start today you would make maybe $35k-40k plus benefits (which is added to that $70figure that people are throwing around).......statistics are easily manipulated to say whatever you want them to say, I think we all know that by now.....

 

[dugtrio]

Originally Posted by CincoSeisDos

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Wait. Ok so why do people knock American cars? Details please?

reliability
mileage

gm's terrible interiors

 

[dublbagn]

Originally Posted by TrueshotAura

People always, ALWAYS ignore the fact that foreign companies pay such a small import tax which is why they thrive here. Other countries PROTECT their auto industry with high import taxes to make their domestics more attractive. And to the people who complain about the worker's wages, the wages only account for 10% of the actual car. There are honestly too many ignorant comments in here that it's hardly worth the time going through each one.

at least someone understands what is going on..........

 

[Thats My Word]

The government needs to help me and others out with student loans...

 

[mjbetch]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Wait. Ok so why do people knock American cars? Details please?

because in terms of quality... American cars are NOT up to par with foreign cars.

even the minor details... if you look at the cabins of foreign cars compared to american cars, you'll see a major difference. (within the small things ifyou get what i'm saying)

the only thing american cars have going for them are the sports cars... Vettes, Mustangs, Vipers, etc... and that's about it.

not everyone can buy sports cars so they look for the best car suitable for them within their budget. it's clear that foreign cars win in that market.


if the big 3 would stop producing cars that did not appeal to the masses, then maybe they wouldnt be in this situation.

 

[718stylez]

straight from the horses mouth

How much are current UAW auto industry wages?

In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor. A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor. Between 2003 and 2006, the wages of a typical UAW assembler have grown at about the same rate as wages in the private sector as a whole - roughly 9 percent. Part of that growth is due to cost-of-living adjustments that have helped prevent inflation from eroding the purchasing power of workers' wages.

28 bucks an hour for basic line work?!? excluding benefits. 9% annual raises?!? thats outrageous. Thats almost 56k base and the majority of themget a decent amount of overtime...and this is Detroit.

most college educated professionals in New York don't have jobs like this. Screw the UAW and screw the Big 3(2). The market has spoken, there's alwaysanother company around the corner to step in to fill the void.

 

[lazy b]

Originally Posted by DublBagn

Originally Posted by TrueshotAura

People always, ALWAYS ignore the fact that foreign companies pay such a small import tax which is why they thrive here. Other countries PROTECT their auto industry with high import taxes to make their domestics more attractive. And to the people who complain about the worker's wages, the wages only account for 10% of the actual car. There are honestly too many ignorant comments in here that it's hardly worth the time going through each one.

at least someone understands what is going on..........

You obviously have a vested interest in this seeing that you are from the D. If people thought it was bad in MI now, its going straight to hell.

Some people are going to bank off of this tomorrow when the market opens.

 

[iheartboost]

Originally Posted by DublBagn

Originally Posted by IHeartBoost

DublBagn

Stop while your ahead, like the Big 3, your replies are a losing battle.

Why even try to sit here and justify the Big 3 when they are at fault for what is occuring and then argue in the UAW advantage when they kill the bill? You don't see Honda, Toyota, Nissan asking the government for a blank check?

Honda, Toyota and Nissan all got help from their government in some form or fashion......how do you think they grew so quickly....and even those companies agree with the Big 3 getting help from the government....

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/719...he-ttac-lovers-face-honda-asks-***/index.htmlhttp://forums.motortrend....honda-asks-***/index.html

this is just one article I found.....google shows a ton of articles on the subject.....

Nice article, but you missed this part,

Of course, with no one yet projecting losses, the problems aren't in the U.S. Big Three's league, as Ford and GM's results on Nov. 7 will no doubt highlight.

So while the Big Japanese 3 are having problems (due to credit and the banks), there still no losses and NOWHERE near Ford, GM and Chrysler status.

Stick a fork in the big 3, they are done. They almost had a fighting chance, and the UAW just sealed there fate.

 

[trueshotaura]

The people rooting against this in this post seem to be very short sided. I don't see how the same group of people who voted for 700B for Wall Streetcan't pony up a fraction for blue collar workers. If GM goes down I would not be surprised if a foreign company bought them, sold the cars here, and sentthe profits back home. Then, all the profits and money circulating in the U.S. because of GM will evaporate and go overseas. It's sad people see only 1dimension of Car A vs Car B.

 

[beatslim]

These companies wouldve failed regardless. The bailout was simply to buy more time. What good is infusing money into these companies when there cars arentselling?

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by TrueshotAura

The people rooting against this in this post seem to be very short sided. I don't see how the same group of people who voted for 700B for Wall Street can't pony up a fraction for blue collar workers. If GM goes down I would not be surprised if a foreign company bought them, sold the cars here, and sent the profits back home. Then, all the profits and money circulating in the U.S. because of GM will evaporate and go overseas. It's sad people see only 1 dimension of Car A vs Car B.

I think people understand what you're saying, but a bunch of you are ignoring and trivializing the points they're making too...

The Big 3 messed up. That's why they're in this position. From a long term perspective a bailout will help out children down the road, but Idon't think the government should encourage this habit of poor business decisions made with the security of knowing there's a big safety net waiting ifthe bottom falls out from underneath you.

 

[dl2352]

Originally Posted by BEATSLIM

These companies wouldve failed regardless. The bailout was simply to buy more time. What good is infusing money into these companies when there cars arent selling?

Truth. While the foreign automakers continually innovated and pushed out quality vehicles that were economically and environmentally sound, theAmerican auto companies decided to push out gas-guzzling SUV's and trucks. They could not adapt fast enough to the market and they've been far too slowin trying to catch up. It's unfortunate but that's capitalism for you. If these companies go under, there will be someone else with a better businessplan around the corner ready to come in and fill the void.

 

[thunderchunk69]

dont forget they mysteriously got rid of the electric cars.

 

[trueshotaura]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by TrueshotAura

The people rooting against this in this post seem to be very short sided. I don't see how the same group of people who voted for 700B for Wall Street can't pony up a fraction for blue collar workers. If GM goes down I would not be surprised if a foreign company bought them, sold the cars here, and sent the profits back home. Then, all the profits and money circulating in the U.S. because of GM will evaporate and go overseas. It's sad people see only 1 dimension of Car A vs Car B.

I think people understand what you're saying, but a bunch of you are ignoring and trivializing the points they're making too...

The Big 3 messed up. That's why they're in this position. From a long term perspective a bailout will help out children down the road, but I don't think the government should encourage this habit of poor business decisions made with the security of knowing there's a big safety net waiting if the bottom falls out from underneath you.

Yes they messed up and I acknowledge that but why should the workers suffer? I swear Republicans only care about themselves, where were they analyzing thespecifics of individuals on Wall Street? What about the 10 Billion that disappeared in Iraq? Exactly lets not forget that it's the right wingers whoopposed this. Why not use some of that 700B sent to Wall Street to help out the Big 3? Oh yeah Henry Paulson put the brakes on that, the former Goldman Sachsexecutive. What a coincidence.

 

[curt2121]

Originally Posted by ThunderChunk69

dont forget they mysteriously got rid of the electric cars.

well idk about all that, they certainly have more research than they present though. GM hy-wire anyone? That just disappeared out of nowhere and it was quitean impressive concept. Hydrogen cell powered, replaceable body, etc etc. The bottom line is though that these companies deserve to fail. They put out aninferior product at a noncompetitive price. It's not even like the Hyundai's of years past that were clearly inferior but at a cheaper price. The fitand finish, ride quality, handling, power, and economy of these cars compared to foreign counterparts is just abysmal. Inflated labor prices to union workersand bad business practices resulting in poor material costs etc etc are a huge problem. And those are a result of these companies. Someone above mentioned thatthe protection against foreign autos in the US is very low and they are indeed correct. The last time I bought a car in the UK for our property there, I wasquite shocked at the price of an import (granted RHD conversion costs and VAT and whatnot). But frankly, I'm glad the US doesn't protect our subparautomakers from legitimate competition. The product is downright inferior. Outside of the SUV market, I could think of probably 3 or 4 foreign cars better thanany domestic for roughly the same price. Whether a sports car or family car or whatever. American offerings are just overwhelmingly pitiful. Now once in awhile, they get it right. Unfortunately, because of their reputation, some of these cars don't get the chance they deserve. But then you get American carsbased on European platforms that are bastardized into horrible cars (IE crossfire) and you remember just why you refuse to buy domestic cars.

 

[thetruthhurts74]

The banks should use some of their bailout cash to reinvigorate the US auto industry.