BIG 3 END UP NOT GETTING THE LOAN!!!

[joebonnano]

I think a streamlined US Automaker will come of this, and then they will eventually branch out into smaller, lesser brands, similar to the situation with theAirlines from a while back.

I really agree with people about not giving money to failing businesses, but it's already been done. The Banks threw away money with impractical lending,and THEY got bailouts... Hell, the US Government is doing the EXACT same thing the Banks were doing... So they choose the oldest, largest supplier ofmanufacturing jobs in the US and possibly the world to say no to? C'mon, now...

If you say no to one, you should have said no to them all, that's all I'm saying. If you said yes to one, you should say yes to them all.

Point is, you should never say yes at all. Laissez faire is the way to go. Sure, it has fluctuations, but what truly capitalist society doesn't?

I think it is really hypocritical to chastise some for being socialist for a bailout on one token, then do exactly the same thing on another...

Whatever... I still love my Lucerne. And now I'll prolly get to buy a new one for like a dollar.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by IHeartBoost

Originally Posted by lurkin2long

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Well....

This is all speculation, but lets do a worst case scenario doomsday Scenario.

The big 3 all fail within 2-3 years. What becomes of NASCAR and all those engineering jobs, advertising/marketing, media broadcasting, etc.
Nobody is going to watch a bunch of Hondas or Toyotas make laps lol. Nascar usually has cars that are available on the market for their "stock cars". So, we'd have what modded Accords, Camry, and Altimas? FWD FTL.

What about RWD? G35? Luxury brands = No Go for NASCAR.

R.I.P NASCAR?

who cares about nascar.

waste of gas

Seriously? Nascar? Who cares about Nascar, it's one of the least watch sport (yes, these idiots consider it a sport) on television.

Originally Posted by RKO2004

I'm a newb to cars. Whats some contrasting feature foreign cars have that American cars don't?

It's more about quality, interior and exterior. For every American car on the market I can name a Japanese or German car that has better quality, interior and exterior design.

Face it, American cars just don't have that soul as Japanese or German cars have, there previous gen styling suck, they have horrible design artist at there headquarters, so what did they do? Turn to retro styles from 20+ years ago,

. There best bet is to steal look into European automarket design as GM did for Opel errr I mean Saturn.

I feel bad for American auto workers, I do, but what use is fusing money into a market where people don't want to buy there products? There cars are sitting on lots, so why take money to bail them out, is this bail out gonna make Americans buy there cars? Seriously doubt it, if anything, Honda, Toyota and Nissan (as now) will continue to see profits. I rarely see any new car plates / tags on American cars lately, but see A LOT of Japanese or German.

The writing is on the wall, and it's been there for years, The CEOs, COOs were told countless times and ignore it, the japanese took there own road and the Americans continue down there (wrong) path. Now the coffin is being nailed closed and there banging on the top for fresh air... too lil too late.

Out of them all, Im gonna miss Chrysler, I love the Cadillac brand, it's such a prestige, major icon, but hopefully they'll merge. Jeep, Dodge, who cares. Ford, nope, don't care... they too should have followed the practices of there European comrades when they were ask / told to years ago and GM, another one I feel bad, only good thing to come out of them was the refreshing lineup of Saturn and Vette (Z06 and ZR1)

Its like that now? We really gon drag Dodge into this

But seriously what foreign car looks like the Charger? If there is one then I'll have to put it on my list.

 

[luckyluchiano]

500 Dollar Chargers. One for each day of the week.

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by BKsole

american cars are trash

That is the problem. No one wants American cars, Americans don't even want American cars. They are garbage.

Did you miss my post on page regarding GMs numbers? Allow me to quote myself:

GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles

GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)


Contrary to popular belief (and apparently yours), American cars sell well especially in other markets. These stats are global.

GM>Toyota>rest of the auto world in 2007. GM has slipped to 2nd since then. That information is ultimately irrelevant because even if GM sold 12 millioncars as I've stated earlier, they would still see a net loss. This is a business operations failure.

The problem is that American companies, specifically GM, do not make enough profit per vehicle sold. Hell, GM is making a loss per vehicle.Do a simple Googlesearch if you want to check my numbers. I'm not going to the assume the burden or proof. That's your job.

The bottom line is this, GM needs to be restructured and the auto industry needs to be de-unionized. It's not about the cars being sold, as much asit's about where money being made from vehicle sales is going. If Toyota didn't exist, and GM was selling Toyota's cars......GM would still bebankrupt because of their business practices and their union contracts. The companies who distribute the steel and other raw materials to sustain the big 3close shop. The Japanese and European companies will be forced to close their American factories down because they get many of their materials from the samevendors who supply the big 3.

The domino effect is great. Paying extra money and waiting 3 months for your cars to be imported from overseas FTL, but hey thats what some of you want.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by LuckyLuchiano

500 Dollar Chargers. One for each day of the week.

Man stop

. They would replace the Camaro in the hood if that happen.Dudes would be treatin chargers like shoes.

 

[trueshotaura]

Why do people act as if there are so many people against this? This failed because of only republican senators aka friends of wall street, who perpetuate mythsand throw mis-information which is then regurgitated by people in this thread. Please go and do your own research.

 

[therav4]

Originally Posted by nicefro

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by BKsole

american cars are trash

That is the problem. No one wants American cars, Americans don't even want American cars. They are garbage.

Rich Chinese in China love Buick's. Ford makes some pretty nice economy cars out in the UK. And I'm not an American-guy myself (check the avy

). The problem came when they continued to produce Hummer/Suburban/Tahoe. IMO

Agreed. In many places where the small-mid size cars the most driven...Like in Europe the Ford Focus is a very popular car. Out of the 3 auto manufacturersFord is the only one to somewhat get it. The Ford Escape, Fusion, and Focus are very fuel efficient. And I think alot of the problems Ford faces is the factthey are associated with the other 2 crappy manufacturers in GM and Chrysler just because they are American. They just don't get it. GM started dissingcompanies like Toyota when they released the Prius saying it wasn't the right direction...then a couple years later they realized hybrid models is a greatidea. Plus in a time where the Honda Civic and the Toyota Corolla are the best selling vehicles, Chrysler and GM are depending on muscular cars like theCharger, Challenger, Camaro, and Vette to keep them in place. 10 years ago this would be okay. Especially the fact that Americans make great trucks/SUVS buteven that time has past.

That being said...they do have some improving products. As previously mentioned the Ford line has improved, along with the Chevy Malibu. But when you got notonly Japanease competitors which are better in Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti but you also have German competitors in MINI/BMW, Smart Car/Mercedes,VW/Audi...it's hard to justify that purchasing an American car is justified.

Compared to others they depreciate in value, are less reliable, are not as stylish, and do not handle as well.

And seriously...To the people that are for this bailout:

Do you strongly believe that this money can help American car manufacturers to the point where they won't need help again?

Be real.

If Americans decide to bail them out now...and it doesn't work (Which is my opinion) then the United States have even a bigger problem than the 2options this economy is facing today.

 

[russ tha g]

I think a streamlined US Automaker will come of this, and then they will eventually branch out into smaller, lesser brands, similar to the situation with the Airlines from a while back.

Imagine this: in a bull-market, capitalist economy, whatever you want to call what we are SUPPOSED to be, that would be exactly what wouldhappen.

Sadly, people have grown so attached to the big 3 that they want them to stick around - no matter how poorly they're ran, or how poor of a product they putout.

I can't comment too much on the quality of the cars or the wages of the workers because I don't know 100% about either, but I can say that unions (ingeneral) hurt the economy. If you keep boosting the wages of unskilled workers - thus causing simple jobs to cost a lot for firms, then all that's reallyhappening is inflation. There are more unions and such out there that do the same thing (not all titled as unions), and it's not helping anything - justsatisfying people because they're getting more $$$ but the $$$ is worth less.

Also, notice how nobody complains about not buying American made calculators, cameras, TVs, etc... some things are just much cheaper to produce overseas, andin turn much more inexpensive for us to buy here. If all electronics were assembled in the USA, the prices would be through the roof! If a more streamlinedautomaker does not come around, then the best option will be to buy foreign-made autos (it will also be the only option, at that point).

Another big cost component for EVERY company is lazy workers. Think of how many down right lazy people work around you - it's the same everywhere. The80/20 rule - 80% of the work is done by 20% of the staff. I know it's true in my experiences. All the dead weight in companies drives up costs and thatdrives up prices for us.

Americans have become too comfortable with being mediocre. Only difference now is that companies can't afford to keep mediocre employees.So, when the layoffs roll out, they're upset because they lost the job they didn't really put much effort into in the first place.

People are going cry about this, and it does suck for a lot of people, but this is what comes with America. This is what makes us great - not that we can fail,but through this crash will come better alternatives, harder workers (who are more appreciative of their jobs), etc. I mean, has nobody heard of the phrase"learn from your mistakes" ???