BIG 3 END UP NOT GETTING THE LOAN!!!

[718stylez]

Originally Posted by 718stylez

^^^i agree

we need to bail them out...i just hope that they get their act together

so what if we bail them out and they dont get their act together....................

then what?
an unfortunate thing has happened with globalization, that being counterparty risk. If it was just the car companies than i'd be all for it,but its not. removing large multinational manufacturig firms from the global market can have profound results. i think we're really witnessing an era of'too big to fail".

There's so many suppliers (which also supply Japanese autos) that rely on the big 3, along with banks that hold GM/Ford etc's subordinate debt thatletting them go will surely plunge the US and perhaps the world into a full on depression.

i dont believe giving them a blank check is in order.

1. i'd get wages under control to be competitive
2. fire almost all management
3. insist that they trim subordinate product lines like buick, lincoln etc
4. negotiate with foreign manufacturers to build in detriot
5. stimulate demand for domestic cars w/ favorable tax code

i think that long term its best to trim thier importance on the region by courting other industries. i dont believe that any industry should be thatinfluencial to the vitality of a city (new york im looking at you)

 

[carlos tevez]

Why blame the UAW when the companies continue to produce cars that no one wants to buy? Chrsyler, GM and Ford need to step their technology game up and producebetter cars which are more appealing to consumers. No one was complaining about the worker's wages when the American auto industry was extremelyprofitable.

Also, these CEO's dont deserve $30 million+ annually, especially when their companies are in such terrible shape. Nardelli should contribute to the bailouthimself, I read that dude made about $500 mill. during his time with The Home Depot

 

[send one]

Why is everyone making such a big deal about what the line workers make. After taxes, union dues and everything else that so called $28/hr aint much. It mightsound like alot of money to someone in hs making minimum wage but out in the real world it could only get you so far. Why is no one mad at the execs. who getpaid 6-7 figures and have been mismanaging?

 

[joe mcknight is ballin]

#$%% they need to hurry up and make a decision of this bailout instead to stringing this #*%$ out.

 

[optimusadl]

It seems some people think the Auto industry operates in a vacuum and that it has no effect on other industries.

 

[DownByLaw]

DublBagn wrote:

---

The senate ask for the UAW (united auto workers) union to take a huge pay cut that they knew that they could not take, to push for the BIG 3 not to get the government bailout loan.....

Senator Shelby is a joke....

we are going to lose at least one auto company before the end of the month....this recession is going to get even worse and get ready for the stock market to fall big time tomorrow....

thanks congress for letting huge American companies fail, and basically supporting foreign auto makers.....what a joke!!



You clearly are a very misinformed individual. Step your knowledge up

 

[kicksgetmehigh]

Originally Posted by AR Guy

So the UAW got to pick between a pay cut or no paycheck and chose no paycheck. hmmm...

PRETTY MUCH!

 

[ndztruckt]

Good and I'm glad because frankly they DO NOT deserve it.

 

[bksole]

american cars are trash

 

[throwedindagame]

Another thing, The argument about GM makes cars that nobody wants to buy is ignorant.

Yall do realize that GM and Toyota sold nearly the same amount of cars in 2007....shocker?! The problem with GM is not the amount of cars selling, it's theprofit per vehicle sold.

GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles

GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)


Even if GM turned out millions of fuel efficient cars that everyone wanted, GM would still lose money. GM could sell 12 million cars and still not turn aprofit. The company needs a bailout but they also need to void union contracts and restructure. New management.

Unions are archaic relics of the 20th century and are no longer needed. Gone are the days of uncompensated overtime/ridiculous hours, terrible workingconditions, etc.

 

[patmc13]

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Another thing, The argument about GM makes cars that nobody wants to buy is ignorant.

Yall do realize that GM and Toyota sold nearly the same amount of cars in 2007....shocker?! The problem with GM is not the amount of cars selling, it's the profit per vehicle sold.

GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles

GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)

Even if GM turned out millions of fuel efficient cars that everyone wanted, GM would still lose money. GM could sell 12 million cars and still not turn a profit. The company needs a bailout but they also need to void union contracts and restructure. New management.

Unions are archaic relics of the 20th century and are no longer needed. Gone are the days of uncompensated overtime/ridiculous hours, terrible working conditions, etc.

Not a 100% true...

 

[flight23air]

First off I don't want to see another man/womam lose their job unless they really deserve it.

Just some questions I want to ask.

If there was a bailout, what exactly would they do with the money?

If GM has been losing money for each car sold, why didn't they react to that immediately?

Okay now the Big 3 have obviously been around for a long time, years upon years of research and development and experience between all three of them. Why forthe longest time, like for the last couple of decades can't they build a car that can compete with the Accord/Camry or Civic/Corolla (here in America)? Of course that's easy for me to say but we should at least expect GM to be able to do that.

What I'm trying to say is ever since these imports came out with their volume sellers Accord/Camry and even luxury cars like the 3 series etc. Every yearit seems like the imports try and improve their cars. Every generation that comes out gets better.... with materials, safety etc. Thats something youdon't see with American cars here in the homeland I'm not talking overseas. GM can build a good truck and they keep getting better but what abouttheir cars? Why didn't the Ford Taurus/escort just keep getting better and better with all the years of experience? (do they even build the escortanymore?). These compact and midsize imports are everywhere. Don't Ford own some stake in Mazda? Mazda's line of cars are getting better and better. I don't understand Ford.

I lost faith in some of the Big 3 but I still have some faith with GM. I don't own a GM car now but I really believe they can build a damn nice car. Mycoworker just bought the new Malibu and I came away really impressed but confused why the previous Malibus were so wack (lets be honest they were crap). Theprevious Caddy CTS was okay but then they improved it some more with the one out now. It's a head turner. Why didn't that do this in the past? Wheyhasn't Ford done anything with Lincoln? Its like they're happy with it being rental cars.

I really wished they came to some kind of compromise so most of the factory workers keep their jobs. Atleast a paycut just to be able to compete. Mabye shutdown buick/mercury etc or some of these sister brands.

I got to believe there is someone way more knowledgeable than us than can steer these guys in the right direction. I hope.

 

[biggie62]

Originally Posted by Patmc13

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Another thing, The argument about GM makes cars that nobody wants to buy is ignorant.

Yall do realize that GM and Toyota sold nearly the same amount of cars in 2007....shocker?! The problem with GM is not the amount of cars selling, it's the profit per vehicle sold.

GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles

GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)

Even if GM turned out millions of fuel efficient cars that everyone wanted, GM would still lose money. GM could sell 12 million cars and still not turn a profit. The company needs a bailout but they also need to void union contracts and restructure. New management.

Unions are archaic relics of the 20th century and are no longer needed. Gone are the days of uncompensated overtime/ridiculous hours, terrible working conditions, etc.

Not a 100% true...

Yea that's not totally true I agree. But instead of demanding everything + some. Workers still get exploited and what not,but the Unionsneed to chill out a bit. Stop demanding so much. But the execs need to take huge paycuts as well.

 

[rko2004]

I'm a newb to cars. Whats some contrasting feature foreign cars have that American cars don't?

 

[mr monday niight]

Good...

 

[mexicansoul]

Unions are a gift and curse. They breed greediness and allow workers to become lazy at the fall back of a strike or lock out.

The Ralphs and other supermarkets who stroke a few years back showed just how greedy some unions can be.

I work for the school district and our union works to keep benefits and give us 1-2% raises not the outrageous things some unions "fight" for.

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

I'm a newb to cars. Whats some contrasting feature foreign cars have that American cars don't?

Quality!

 

[scotthallwithapick]

I'm not really up on the economy but if we give them the money what would they do with it? If they continue doing business how they are aren't we gonnabe in this same situation in a few years?

 

[JD617]

.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Originally Posted by RKO2004

I'm a newb to cars. Whats some contrasting feature foreign cars have that American cars don't?

Quality!

Man didn't you ignore me

?

And I'd hate to see my beloved Charger get the ax. I wouldn't know what to do

 

[8tothe24]

Originally Posted by BKsole

american cars are trash

That is the problem. No one wants American cars, Americans don't even want American cars. They are garbage.

 

[iheartboost]

Originally Posted by lurkin2long

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Well....

This is all speculation, but lets do a worst case scenario doomsday Scenario.

The big 3 all fail within 2-3 years. What becomes of NASCAR and all those engineering jobs, advertising/marketing, media broadcasting, etc.
Nobody is going to watch a bunch of Hondas or Toyotas make laps lol. Nascar usually has cars that are available on the market for their "stock cars". So, we'd have what modded Accords, Camry, and Altimas? FWD FTL.

What about RWD? G35? Luxury brands = No Go for NASCAR.

R.I.P NASCAR?

who cares about nascar.

waste of gas

Seriously? Nascar? Who cares about Nascar, it's one of the least watch sport (yes, these idiots consider it a sport) on television.

Originally Posted by RKO2004

I'm a newb to cars. Whats some contrasting feature foreign cars have that American cars don't?

It's more about quality, interior and exterior. For every American car on the market I can name a Japanese or German car that has betterquality, interior and exterior design.

Face it, American cars just don't have that soul as Japanese or German cars have, there previous gen styling suck, they have horrible design artist atthere headquarters, so what did they do? Turn to retro styles from 20+ years ago,

. There best bet is to steallook into European automarket design as GM did for Opel errr I mean Saturn.

I feel bad for American auto workers, I do, but what use is fusing money into a market where people don't want to buy there products? There cars aresitting on lots, so why take money to bail them out, is this bail out gonna make Americans buy there cars? Seriously doubt it, if anything, Honda, Toyota andNissan (as now) will continue to see profits. I rarely see any new car plates / tags on American cars lately, but see A LOT of Japanese or German.

The writing is on the wall, and it's been there for years, The CEOs, COOs were told countless times and ignore it, the japanese took there own road and theAmericans continue down there (wrong) path. Now the coffin is being nailed closed and there banging on the top for fresh air... too lil too late.

Out of them all, Im gonna miss Chrysler, I love the Cadillac brand, it's such a prestige, major icon, but hopefully they'll merge. Jeep, Dodge, whocares. Ford, nope, don't care... they too should have followed the practices of there European comrades when they were ask / told to years ago and GM,another one I feel bad, only good thing to come out of them was the refreshing lineup of Saturn and Vette (Z06 and ZR1)

 

[nicefro]

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by BKsole

american cars are trash

That is the problem. No one wants American cars, Americans don't even want American cars. They are garbage.

Rich Chinese in China love Buick's. Ford makes some pretty nice economy cars out in the UK. And I'm not an American-guy myself (check theavy

). The problem came when they continued to produceHummer/Suburban/Tahoe. IMO

 

[fede dpt]

I cant believe that scumbag UAW President is blaming !#$@ on the Republicans. He should kill himself.

 

[coolgraygrey]

It's quite unfortunate how hard headed UAW can be. It's not all their fault, CEO's should also take a pay cut as well, but the Union sometimes haveungodly requests. Almost thinking factory workers are worth more than they are worth.