Riiiiight? This is what got me like damn...I need to break this %%%@ down...:
You continue to support my argument that understanding religion takes research.
But you are looking at it in the sense that Islam = Islam the faith. But that's not what Islam is. Islam = the true path to God. i.e. Judaism was the right path, then Christianity, then Islam. And God never left any civilization without an opportunity for guidance from Him. That's the whole reason the concept of creation and the first man is found in the Qur'an. Because the first man was a Muslim.
First you say Islam is only 1400ish years old. Cool... I agree. So does everyone else. THEN you say Islam is the true path to God... I bet you wont say that to the face of a Christian or a Jew or a Buddhist. In fact I KNOW you won't. You say god never left and civilization without the opp. to worship him... so did God get it wrong the first two times?? You say first Judaism was Islam...laughable...then you say Christanity was Islam... Laughable...and FINALLY God got it right saying Islam is finally Islam now? How many "true" paths did he make then? So on that accord he might just show up again and make "IceCreamian" the new true path to God. He already failed twice at it and changed it. Its like me saying the first car was a Tesla. First Ford was Tesla then Chevrolet was Tesla now Tesla is Tesla... How utterly OBNOXIOUS of your faith to steal the claims that came before them. Such dangerous delusions of grandeur. Then your explanation saying "That's the whole reason the concept of creation and the first man is found in the Qur'an."....Uh...NOPE! What does that explain? You just dropped a random conclusion in your sentence and said you proved something. That doesn't show ANYTHING. Then you say the first man was in the Quran...the hell did that come from? How old is the earth buddy? So if the oldest man is in the Quran...and modern islam as followed by the Quran is only 1400 years old...then the Quran can't have the oldest story of a man in it....That doesn't make any sense buddy. I'll leave you to work on those details.Then to say that the "first man was a muslim"...uh...So Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Polynesians, Africans, Chinese were Muslims? All cultures that predated modern arab muslims, and christians and jews? I see...
But the fun doesnt stop there ladies and gentlemen:
First you claim that God kept sending messages to man after Christianity/Judaism popped up... Ok...Proof? Second of yall you say Christians and Jews changed the message...yeah they did...just like you said ya'll kept getting special text messages from God after the party was over. I admit...Jews and Christians changed the bible...just like the Muslims and Mormons and every other religion does. Then you say that they're the only ones that included man-made though...well duh, God didn't write it MAN WROTE THE BIBLE/KORAN/TORAH. Plus you're just flat out wrong here ALL ancient texts claim to have the word of God. Islam is no different. I suggest you look into the creation of the the Quran and you'll find the same collection of stories and deliberation over its creation that you found with the Bible and the Torah. The Quran is NOT special. If God didn't write then you expect me to believe God's words were EXACTLY transmitted? I'm sure they were tweaked homie. Ya'll did what everyone else did and that was to make the good book work for you all.
You accept Islam as the word of God...why? Because it says its the word of god. How do we know its the Word of God? Because it says its the word of god. How can we be sure its the word of God? Because it tells us that if we don't believe it we get punished...and it says its the word of God. Do we have proof? No your faith is too weak and since these are Gods words you'll be punished (WHEN YOU DIE) ...so these are the words of God. You aren't as versed in religion as you say you are.
I don't read a book and accept it as fact IMMEDIATELY. If it cant stand up to the rigors of support from other realms or critique then whats the point? Consistency is the key here. Even on this accord alone, following islam is on false pretenses. Homie, you're smarter than that I hope....
You continue to support my argument that understanding religion takes research.
But you are looking at it in the sense that Islam = Islam the faith. But that's not what Islam is. Islam = the true path to God. i.e. Judaism was the right path, then Christianity, then Islam. And God never left any civilization without an opportunity for guidance from Him. That's the whole reason the concept of creation and the first man is found in the Qur'an. Because the first man was a Muslim.
First you say Islam is only 1400ish years old. Cool... I agree. So does everyone else. THEN you say Islam is the true path to God... I bet you wont say that to the face of a Christian or a Jew or a Buddhist. In fact I KNOW you won't. You say god never left and civilization without the opp. to worship him... so did God get it wrong the first two times?? You say first Judaism was Islam...laughable...then you say Christanity was Islam... Laughable...and FINALLY God got it right saying Islam is finally Islam now? How many "true" paths did he make then? So on that accord he might just show up again and make "IceCreamian" the new true path to God. He already failed twice at it and changed it. Its like me saying the first car was a Tesla. First Ford was Tesla then Chevrolet was Tesla now Tesla is Tesla... How utterly OBNOXIOUS of your faith to steal the claims that came before them. Such dangerous delusions of grandeur. Then your explanation saying "That's the whole reason the concept of creation and the first man is found in the Qur'an."....Uh...NOPE! What does that explain? You just dropped a random conclusion in your sentence and said you proved something. That doesn't show ANYTHING. Then you say the first man was in the Quran...the hell did that come from? How old is the earth buddy? So if the oldest man is in the Quran...and modern islam as followed by the Quran is only 1400 years old...then the Quran can't have the oldest story of a man in it....That doesn't make any sense buddy. I'll leave you to work on those details.Then to say that the "first man was a muslim"...uh...So Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Polynesians, Africans, Chinese were Muslims? All cultures that predated modern arab muslims, and christians and jews? I see...
But the fun doesnt stop there ladies and gentlemen:
First you claim that God kept sending messages to man after Christianity/Judaism popped up... Ok...Proof? Second of yall you say Christians and Jews changed the message...yeah they did...just like you said ya'll kept getting special text messages from God after the party was over. I admit...Jews and Christians changed the bible...just like the Muslims and Mormons and every other religion does. Then you say that they're the only ones that included man-made though...well duh, God didn't write it MAN WROTE THE BIBLE/KORAN/TORAH. Plus you're just flat out wrong here ALL ancient texts claim to have the word of God. Islam is no different. I suggest you look into the creation of the the Quran and you'll find the same collection of stories and deliberation over its creation that you found with the Bible and the Torah. The Quran is NOT special. If God didn't write then you expect me to believe God's words were EXACTLY transmitted? I'm sure they were tweaked homie. Ya'll did what everyone else did and that was to make the good book work for you all.
You accept Islam as the word of God...why? Because it says its the word of god. How do we know its the Word of God? Because it says its the word of god. How can we be sure its the word of God? Because it tells us that if we don't believe it we get punished...and it says its the word of God. Do we have proof? No your faith is too weak and since these are Gods words you'll be punished (WHEN YOU DIE) ...so these are the words of God. You aren't as versed in religion as you say you are.
I don't read a book and accept it as fact IMMEDIATELY. If it cant stand up to the rigors of support from other realms or critique then whats the point? Consistency is the key here. Even on this accord alone, following islam is on false pretenses. Homie, you're smarter than that I hope....
I'm not trying to say I'm right or wrong. I'm saying that the beliefs that many subscribe to are INCONSISTENT and OUTDATED. They are on faulty grounds and the support for them when investigated fails to exists.
I'm not trying to say I'm right or wrong. I'm saying that the beliefs that many subscribe to are INCONSISTENT and OUTDATED. They are on faulty grounds and the support for them when investigated fails to exists.
The reason why I asked was because you had stated that you had a problem with people "forcing their non-religion beliefs on others", and that people as a whole should be more acceptant of others' beliefs.
The reason why I asked was because you had stated that you had a problem with people "forcing their non-religion beliefs on others", and that people as a whole should be more acceptant of others' beliefs.
But yeah, throw out another popcorn gif. This isn't logical at all.
Your views on gambling? Subjective. Don't let a religion tell you what you should think.
I was talking strictly in societal terms and values.
So we live in America. And gambling is legal. And there are tons of people who are addicted and have to go to meetings or whatever.
The Islamic model of society states that a man throwing his life away is WORSE in the large aspect of society than you making some money and having a good weekend.
But instead, our values in America are different. Instead, we forget about the people in society who are going to face turmoil and difficulty because it's all about YOU. And that's wrong in the large scope of things.
But this is really a problem. You say "Don't let a religion tell you what to think." People are so afraid of indoctrination. No matter where you live and where you are brought up, the conditions are going to shape who you are and the way you think and your value set. And the Islamic value set in this regard is better than our so called advanced modern value set today. Gambling is just one example.
I think its funny how you tie in your religion with answers to life. So what about non-believers? Do they not have answers? What answers could a secular nation not provide?
The way I look at it is this. When it comes to things that you can use your own faculties to come to a logical answer, then that's probably right. But when there are certain parts of the formation of a society that come down on opinion (i.e. things that can't be understood or researched quantitatively), that is where God's word is supreme. So of course, a secular nation has plenty of answers. But when it comes to something that isn't so much logic associated and more so opinion, that's where God's guidance comes in to guide us in the proper direction.
However, subscribing to a doctrine with ONE set of answers and ONE view of thinking about it limits the chance for true progress of a society's development of policy.
First off, let me shoot down the idea that religion slows down the progress of society by citing the Golden Age of Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Islamic_Golden_Age
Muslims were ahead of the rest of the world by 600 years. Amazing scholars and researchers. Modern medicine was formed under Islam. Same with Chemistry. Anatomy and Physiology too. Advancements in geography and even immunology. And a billion other things that affect our lives on a daily basis. THAT was Islam. Ibn Sina was actually treating mental disease and psychosis as an actual disease in the 10th century while we finally figured out what to do with them here in this country within the last 200 years. So don't tell me that religion will deter scientific advancement. It's simply not true.
OK now to your last paragraph.
I am not a moderate. I am as orthodox as you can get. My faith relies on 2 things: The Qur'an and Hadith. I've used tons and tons of other sources to properly understand these 2 sources of information. My point on 'perfection' I think was unclear. This world, here, is innately unjust. Why? For a number of reasons. Lets shrink it down to a model of a single society.
-You will not always know for certain whether someone is guilty or not.
-There are many 'wrongs' which cannot be corrected.
-Punishments are inaccurate and subject to times. Plus, there is a limit to punishment in the form of death. Killing 50 and killing 100 both will get you the death sentence. But 1 is more wrong than the other.
Islam acknowledges this innate imperfection of this world, and gives us legitimate realistic solutions for dealing with it. That's what I was getting at. St. Thomas Aquinas discusses this stuff too. His philosophy is actually very close to an Islamic model of thought, if you're familiar with him.
I think you're approaching this whole discussion in an entirely incorrect manner. I think you're approaching this discussion like a debate with a winning side and a losers side. No, this is MUCH more than that. Evolution this, science that. I'm a 4th year major in Biology. I'm pretty sure I have a more advanced understanding of the evolutionary sciences than you do. Like I said, I grew up listening to Bertrand Russell. And yet, gasp, I'm a Muslim. I must be ignoring the inconsistencies.
This is the last time I'm going to write in this thread. And it's because it's really is just a waste of my time, no offense to you. You're vehemently criticizing my faith and even me on a personal level now, when it's apparent that you have a very basic understanding of Islamic thought. Me, continuing to answer you're questions is playing into you're hands. And I know this because this is not the first time I've discussed religion on the internet before.
I've given you a recommendation on where to start when you're ready to sincerely learn. If you PM me looking for recommendations, I'll be glad to help you out. But this discussion board changes things. It becomes a debate that everyone is trying to win. A pissing contest. Something that nothing but our egos will benefit from. And that's why it's not really worth it.
Salaam.
Mo Matik wrote:
The model of Shariah law is also very logical and pretty appealing. http://www.huffingtonpost...of-shariah_b_701331.html
So...it may be logical and pretty appealing, but its not right. So...its just cool? Its pretty? What is it then?I'm done on this point. I've also addressed this here. I fully addressed the complexity of Sharia. Read my response. And yes, I read your article.
Well damn homie... Your right. I'm afraid fo anything that claims to be end all be all to all of my problems. It doesn't encourage me to think for myself. I can't disagree or even express my opinion. Especially when newer more accurate information about society and the universe become available. God forbid I actually learn to live life without them. Thats what they DONT want. Its about getting the numbers of the gang up. Theres power in numbers. Every organization will tell you that. Whether or not I value gambling has nothing to do with how I think a people should live their lives. I personally like to think that people are being raised to know the dangers of the world with good parenting and taught about temptation of things that may harm them. However, I refuse to step in and tell that man not to gamble. Part of being mature and grown up is being strong enough to handle the pressures of life and to know when enough is enough. You have to be rooted in yourself and confident in your ability to assess what it is that you need. Religion controls all of that and eliminates the need for people to mature into higher beings of true self actualization. True enlightenment comes from within, not someone telling you how to live your life. And heres the kicker... how DARE you tell me that your "ordained" divine principles that CANT be challenged are better than the rules we have in place today? Theres no room for debate so its automatically lower on the totem pole of autonomy. This is where your bias lives. You can't even see beyond yourself. Its solipsistic and egotistical. Your way or the highway. Why? "God" said so.
Man you just drop JEWELS. Just golden nuggets of glistening JOY. So if you can't empirically learn about something or can't come up with a way to investigate the complexity of issues objectionably we should defer to your book from God?...that men wrote? ....so why not just continue the secular process and allow for further deliberation. If its just man trying to progress society why invoke the fallacy of God when you can just understand that although you may not have the answers that you will actively continue to look for the best one for society. All law is a matter of opinion outside of physics/chemistry. All of it. So we've gotten this far, why just stop and read some book with a fancy cover that MAN WROTE and NOT GOD. As soon as you understand this, you'll see the fallacy in invoking the "word of God" when its really the "words of men using God to their advantage." Oh yeah, your ancient scripts weren't always written in that language... interpretation is a %#@**......
Without a doubt. Muslim scholars have definitely lead to the progression of society 10x fold. No question there. However so have christian societies. So have jewish societies. In fact name one society where there were a significant number of unbelievers before the past 200 years? Can't name one can you? Thats probably because EVERY society killed non-believers. Ask the Catholic Church. Look to past Islamic leaders...shahs...khalifahs...etc. Ya'll are not special homie. Everyone that dared to speak against the church pretty much was doomed from jump. They had no legitimate chance beyond their contributions to society. Religion oppresses opposition and murders dissenters. Like I said, theres power in numbers. Darwin, Newton, Galileo...all active in the church and look at them. All of them had difficultly understanding God in their own way and some of them even suppressed their own opposition to the church in order to continue in society. Great men do Great things. Thats why you had those advancements. Beliefs in God didn't allow that. Great societies allowed that. I'm sure if religions, islam included, didn't have such strict rules against speaking out, there would be a LOT more documented individuals speaking out against religion.... Lets not even get started on the number of religious leaders that are masking their atheism and those living against the tenets of their religion... NUMEROUS. The facts are out there. Look at how our country treat politicians. ALL of them believe in a God? Bull @+#+. They're politicians. They know how to manipulate opinion and to attract attention. But why get killed when you've got research to do? Plus, much of their research didn't address the origins of life. Once you start going there people go bat-$*$! crazy. Then it all hits the fan. Thats the issue dude. This is the reason that even today you can have doctors that believe in God...why? Because they're not addressing the origins of life and choose to ignore it. They're dealing with the here and now. Patients and disease. Keep your argument in context...
Oh crap...you're orthodox? Then you're DEFINITELY deluded. How do you address the inconsistencies in Islam? Ignore them?The world IS innately unjust. The universe is indifferent. Humans want to feel special. They want to be loved. Thats why they invoke these fallacies to bear the pain of living life. You need to find a way to add your own purpose to life. ...@ the audacity of using Thomas Aquinas to support Islam. First of all dude was Catholic. Second of all to support him then shows that all religions draw from the same principles that they want to use for their own...i.e. being narcissistic. Third...I don't think you've read much aquinas. A simple search will show you Aquinas openly spoke about the carnality of Mohammed and invoked his disdain for Islams living for the lust of mohammed. So... tell me where he comes in again?. Philosophers have struggled with the concepts of morality and judgement for as long as we can remember...thats why its important for these things not to be left up to the religious agendas and to be given complete objectivity. Thats why the 10 commandments needs to be left out of court houses and why prayer need not be said before court proceedings. Using religion gives it a pass from the criticism that secular philosophy constructs and uses to objectively address the inconsistencies of law. Religion claims that because its from God its infallible. Thats DANGEROUS. Especially when the words of God...were written by man.Its about making a more perfect system. Not a system used to prevent change and claim to be forever perfect. Take a class on government buddy.
You can keep your credentials homie. I studied neuroscience and behavioral biology in school and I was damn good at it too. I don't care what you think about evolution. Most religious people in biological/physical science academia think god created stuff then it evolved. But then you ask them how old the earth is and its still that young earth crap...or even better they can't settle on a date...or my favorite "one day to him can be 1 million/some arbitrary number of years!"...So you can keep that. And yes, you're ignoring the contradictions. You just accept what you want to accept and move on with the rest. Plus, your dad being agnostic doesn't mean he believed in god or not. There are two types of agnostic. Read up. I'm an agnostic atheist. Your dad could have been an agnostic theist. You need to specify. Frankly, it doesn't matter because i wish he had showed you how to deal with your conflicts in rationale because even in this response, you have many many unresolved issues in your argument. Even you yourself said it, you might not be a muslim if you grew up in a different household...yet you think that islam is the true path...woe is you. I like it when people run away and refuse to address people with different opinions. If your faith and religion dont stand up to criticism, WHY FOLLOW THEM? Are you scared of hell? Do you think you're being watched and feel guilty for jacking off?Do you think God cares if you didnt tip the waiter more? Just be a GOOD PERSON FOR GOODNESS SAKE. You would think a follower of a religion would JUMP at the chance to convert or at least challenge a non-believer. The tenets of your religion suggest...no encourage...no MANDATE that you convert me with all your reasonable power. You dont want to step up to the challenge? Why not? Maybe its because Islam like all other religion only thrives on the WEAK. Those that don't question the faith. Those that don't ask questions. Those that willingly submit to something thats inconsistent. Those that are unable to think for themselves. Those that are unable to speak out. This is why your argument fails. I have read many man many texts on islam, watched lectures and own a copy of the Quran. Its ALL the same game. God doesn't exist. Its a man-made tool to address the unknown. I just hope you don't waste your time praying 5x a day when you could be doing your own studies to improve the current issues of society.
But yeah, throw out another popcorn gif. This isn't logical at all.
Your views on gambling? Subjective. Don't let a religion tell you what you should think.
I was talking strictly in societal terms and values.
So we live in America. And gambling is legal. And there are tons of people who are addicted and have to go to meetings or whatever.
The Islamic model of society states that a man throwing his life away is WORSE in the large aspect of society than you making some money and having a good weekend.
But instead, our values in America are different. Instead, we forget about the people in society who are going to face turmoil and difficulty because it's all about YOU. And that's wrong in the large scope of things.
But this is really a problem. You say "Don't let a religion tell you what to think." People are so afraid of indoctrination. No matter where you live and where you are brought up, the conditions are going to shape who you are and the way you think and your value set. And the Islamic value set in this regard is better than our so called advanced modern value set today. Gambling is just one example.
I think its funny how you tie in your religion with answers to life. So what about non-believers? Do they not have answers? What answers could a secular nation not provide?
The way I look at it is this. When it comes to things that you can use your own faculties to come to a logical answer, then that's probably right. But when there are certain parts of the formation of a society that come down on opinion (i.e. things that can't be understood or researched quantitatively), that is where God's word is supreme. So of course, a secular nation has plenty of answers. But when it comes to something that isn't so much logic associated and more so opinion, that's where God's guidance comes in to guide us in the proper direction.
However, subscribing to a doctrine with ONE set of answers and ONE view of thinking about it limits the chance for true progress of a society's development of policy.
First off, let me shoot down the idea that religion slows down the progress of society by citing the Golden Age of Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Islamic_Golden_Age
Muslims were ahead of the rest of the world by 600 years. Amazing scholars and researchers. Modern medicine was formed under Islam. Same with Chemistry. Anatomy and Physiology too. Advancements in geography and even immunology. And a billion other things that affect our lives on a daily basis. THAT was Islam. Ibn Sina was actually treating mental disease and psychosis as an actual disease in the 10th century while we finally figured out what to do with them here in this country within the last 200 years. So don't tell me that religion will deter scientific advancement. It's simply not true.
OK now to your last paragraph.
I am not a moderate. I am as orthodox as you can get. My faith relies on 2 things: The Qur'an and Hadith. I've used tons and tons of other sources to properly understand these 2 sources of information. My point on 'perfection' I think was unclear. This world, here, is innately unjust. Why? For a number of reasons. Lets shrink it down to a model of a single society.
-You will not always know for certain whether someone is guilty or not.
-There are many 'wrongs' which cannot be corrected.
-Punishments are inaccurate and subject to times. Plus, there is a limit to punishment in the form of death. Killing 50 and killing 100 both will get you the death sentence. But 1 is more wrong than the other.
Islam acknowledges this innate imperfection of this world, and gives us legitimate realistic solutions for dealing with it. That's what I was getting at. St. Thomas Aquinas discusses this stuff too. His philosophy is actually very close to an Islamic model of thought, if you're familiar with him.
I think you're approaching this whole discussion in an entirely incorrect manner. I think you're approaching this discussion like a debate with a winning side and a losers side. No, this is MUCH more than that. Evolution this, science that. I'm a 4th year major in Biology. I'm pretty sure I have a more advanced understanding of the evolutionary sciences than you do. Like I said, I grew up listening to Bertrand Russell. And yet, gasp, I'm a Muslim. I must be ignoring the inconsistencies.
This is the last time I'm going to write in this thread. And it's because it's really is just a waste of my time, no offense to you. You're vehemently criticizing my faith and even me on a personal level now, when it's apparent that you have a very basic understanding of Islamic thought. Me, continuing to answer you're questions is playing into you're hands. And I know this because this is not the first time I've discussed religion on the internet before.
I've given you a recommendation on where to start when you're ready to sincerely learn. If you PM me looking for recommendations, I'll be glad to help you out. But this discussion board changes things. It becomes a debate that everyone is trying to win. A pissing contest. Something that nothing but our egos will benefit from. And that's why it's not really worth it.
Salaam.
Mo Matik wrote:
The model of Shariah law is also very logical and pretty appealing. http://www.huffingtonpost...of-shariah_b_701331.html
So...it may be logical and pretty appealing, but its not right. So...its just cool? Its pretty? What is it then?I'm done on this point. I've also addressed this here. I fully addressed the complexity of Sharia. Read my response. And yes, I read your article.
Well damn homie... Your right. I'm afraid fo anything that claims to be end all be all to all of my problems. It doesn't encourage me to think for myself. I can't disagree or even express my opinion. Especially when newer more accurate information about society and the universe become available. God forbid I actually learn to live life without them. Thats what they DONT want. Its about getting the numbers of the gang up. Theres power in numbers. Every organization will tell you that. Whether or not I value gambling has nothing to do with how I think a people should live their lives. I personally like to think that people are being raised to know the dangers of the world with good parenting and taught about temptation of things that may harm them. However, I refuse to step in and tell that man not to gamble. Part of being mature and grown up is being strong enough to handle the pressures of life and to know when enough is enough. You have to be rooted in yourself and confident in your ability to assess what it is that you need. Religion controls all of that and eliminates the need for people to mature into higher beings of true self actualization. True enlightenment comes from within, not someone telling you how to live your life. And heres the kicker... how DARE you tell me that your "ordained" divine principles that CANT be challenged are better than the rules we have in place today? Theres no room for debate so its automatically lower on the totem pole of autonomy. This is where your bias lives. You can't even see beyond yourself. Its solipsistic and egotistical. Your way or the highway. Why? "God" said so.
Man you just drop JEWELS. Just golden nuggets of glistening JOY. So if you can't empirically learn about something or can't come up with a way to investigate the complexity of issues objectionably we should defer to your book from God?...that men wrote? ....so why not just continue the secular process and allow for further deliberation. If its just man trying to progress society why invoke the fallacy of God when you can just understand that although you may not have the answers that you will actively continue to look for the best one for society. All law is a matter of opinion outside of physics/chemistry. All of it. So we've gotten this far, why just stop and read some book with a fancy cover that MAN WROTE and NOT GOD. As soon as you understand this, you'll see the fallacy in invoking the "word of God" when its really the "words of men using God to their advantage." Oh yeah, your ancient scripts weren't always written in that language... interpretation is a %#@**......
Without a doubt. Muslim scholars have definitely lead to the progression of society 10x fold. No question there. However so have christian societies. So have jewish societies. In fact name one society where there were a significant number of unbelievers before the past 200 years? Can't name one can you? Thats probably because EVERY society killed non-believers. Ask the Catholic Church. Look to past Islamic leaders...shahs...khalifahs...etc. Ya'll are not special homie. Everyone that dared to speak against the church pretty much was doomed from jump. They had no legitimate chance beyond their contributions to society. Religion oppresses opposition and murders dissenters. Like I said, theres power in numbers. Darwin, Newton, Galileo...all active in the church and look at them. All of them had difficultly understanding God in their own way and some of them even suppressed their own opposition to the church in order to continue in society. Great men do Great things. Thats why you had those advancements. Beliefs in God didn't allow that. Great societies allowed that. I'm sure if religions, islam included, didn't have such strict rules against speaking out, there would be a LOT more documented individuals speaking out against religion.... Lets not even get started on the number of religious leaders that are masking their atheism and those living against the tenets of their religion... NUMEROUS. The facts are out there. Look at how our country treat politicians. ALL of them believe in a God? Bull @+#+. They're politicians. They know how to manipulate opinion and to attract attention. But why get killed when you've got research to do? Plus, much of their research didn't address the origins of life. Once you start going there people go bat-$*$! crazy. Then it all hits the fan. Thats the issue dude. This is the reason that even today you can have doctors that believe in God...why? Because they're not addressing the origins of life and choose to ignore it. They're dealing with the here and now. Patients and disease. Keep your argument in context...
Oh crap...you're orthodox? Then you're DEFINITELY deluded. How do you address the inconsistencies in Islam? Ignore them?The world IS innately unjust. The universe is indifferent. Humans want to feel special. They want to be loved. Thats why they invoke these fallacies to bear the pain of living life. You need to find a way to add your own purpose to life. ...@ the audacity of using Thomas Aquinas to support Islam. First of all dude was Catholic. Second of all to support him then shows that all religions draw from the same principles that they want to use for their own...i.e. being narcissistic. Third...I don't think you've read much aquinas. A simple search will show you Aquinas openly spoke about the carnality of Mohammed and invoked his disdain for Islams living for the lust of mohammed. So... tell me where he comes in again?. Philosophers have struggled with the concepts of morality and judgement for as long as we can remember...thats why its important for these things not to be left up to the religious agendas and to be given complete objectivity. Thats why the 10 commandments needs to be left out of court houses and why prayer need not be said before court proceedings. Using religion gives it a pass from the criticism that secular philosophy constructs and uses to objectively address the inconsistencies of law. Religion claims that because its from God its infallible. Thats DANGEROUS. Especially when the words of God...were written by man.Its about making a more perfect system. Not a system used to prevent change and claim to be forever perfect. Take a class on government buddy.
You can keep your credentials homie. I studied neuroscience and behavioral biology in school and I was damn good at it too. I don't care what you think about evolution. Most religious people in biological/physical science academia think god created stuff then it evolved. But then you ask them how old the earth is and its still that young earth crap...or even better they can't settle on a date...or my favorite "one day to him can be 1 million/some arbitrary number of years!"...So you can keep that. And yes, you're ignoring the contradictions. You just accept what you want to accept and move on with the rest. Plus, your dad being agnostic doesn't mean he believed in god or not. There are two types of agnostic. Read up. I'm an agnostic atheist. Your dad could have been an agnostic theist. You need to specify. Frankly, it doesn't matter because i wish he had showed you how to deal with your conflicts in rationale because even in this response, you have many many unresolved issues in your argument. Even you yourself said it, you might not be a muslim if you grew up in a different household...yet you think that islam is the true path...woe is you. I like it when people run away and refuse to address people with different opinions. If your faith and religion dont stand up to criticism, WHY FOLLOW THEM? Are you scared of hell? Do you think you're being watched and feel guilty for jacking off?Do you think God cares if you didnt tip the waiter more? Just be a GOOD PERSON FOR GOODNESS SAKE. You would think a follower of a religion would JUMP at the chance to convert or at least challenge a non-believer. The tenets of your religion suggest...no encourage...no MANDATE that you convert me with all your reasonable power. You dont want to step up to the challenge? Why not? Maybe its because Islam like all other religion only thrives on the WEAK. Those that don't question the faith. Those that don't ask questions. Those that willingly submit to something thats inconsistent. Those that are unable to think for themselves. Those that are unable to speak out. This is why your argument fails. I have read many man many texts on islam, watched lectures and own a copy of the Quran. Its ALL the same game. God doesn't exist. Its a man-made tool to address the unknown. I just hope you don't waste your time praying 5x a day when you could be doing your own studies to improve the current issues of society.
