Community Colleges accounting CPA want to be wealthy

[jaypesoz]

Originally Posted by shogun

Originally Posted by JayPesoz

shogun wrote:

We seem to be in similar shoes. I'll have to look into MAcc as well

Jay, aren't you located in NY too?  I'm from Long Island.  I'm at Farmingdale right now and will graduate next year, then hopefully move on to Old Westbury.  I was inspired by a family friend to get into accounting.  If it wasn't for him I might've just been happy with a Management degree.  He got his bachelors and masters at Albany.  He interned at one of the Big Four and now works for them.  He's baller as hell right now.


Northern NJ to be exact.  And it was kind of the same for me too.  I have a pretty good job right now and am pretty comfortable and make the most out of all my friends.  But ever since I met my fiance and her friends, it's pretty much just been a reality check for me that there's so much more money to be made out there and that's whats been pushing me to go back to school since last year to get my masters.

 

[ridingonlorenzos]

Originally Posted by shatterkneesinc

i see accounting as more of skill than an occupation
knowing accounting principles doesnt mean you have to be an accountant, it can open doors to new opportunities

Beautifully said.

 

[qwerty330]

i know this isn't what you want to hear, but what someone said above is absolutely true...accounting and wealthy do not go together.
i just started my first year at a Big4 and trust me when i say its not the life at all. not exaggerating at all, i make less than 14 dollars an hour. someone above said "dont believe the hype, accounting firms slave the crap out of you". Couldn't be more accurate. The only way you will be wealthy is if you make partner at a firm or start your own business, both of which is extremely extremely difficult to do.

and btw, CPA doesn't mean crap anymore. I passed it 6 months ago, then started working and realized everyone has one.

 

[moderndarwin]

That's depressing above^  Hopefully my experience is a bit different.  I've started school and am doing a MACC program.  What is the benefits/difference in doing a MACC and a Masters of Taxation.  Which one would help me get a good starting high paying job with the Big 4 first?  I know the Big 4 'sucks' but at the same time, it seems to be a necessary evil in the world of accounting.  Doing 1 or 2 years there would give me the experience to pursue any sort of job.  Additionally, if I want to do a government accounting job which one, the MACC or something else would be better?  Basically, I just want to make as much monies coming out of my program as possible.  I have three options: A MACC, a MACC with a concentration in taxes (other options too), a Masters of Taxation, or a double Masters (very likely I do this).  Anyone got words of wisdom on which education path to take?

 

[lazyj10]

Blah blah blah. Accounting =/= wealth, true to a point, but let's be real.

It can, if you aren't spending all your money like an iBanker.

It doesn't take being docked at a Big 4 and pulling all nighters to create some wealth...it does take hard work and having a strong skillset that's in demand and pushing through the ranks, regardless of where you're at. Let me be frank, doing a year or two at a big 4 as a staff is overrated and virtually meaningless. Wow, you were a staff 1 working on Cash recs for a whole year!!! Awesome! Here, let me hire you right now to be my CFO!

I value my CPA and nothing a staff 1 at a big 4 says is going to diminish that. Not "everyone" has one, it's more so, most in industry have one because you can't grow/get promoted without one. The education requirement changes will also limit those who receive one in the future. Each firm also needs/wants to have a certain amount of their professionals with one for various reasons (i.e - AICPA, insurance, etc).

Do you guys think that any job that pays decently (by your salary/hours equation) is going to amount to a high per hour rate? Of course not....did you also expect something like that to be easy?

At my old firm (nationwide, top 100, niche market) managers started in the high 90s to 100k, principal 150k minimum and then partner. The partner track wasn't that hard (i.e. - you could actually have a life) and the compensation was tied to your book and overall hours (aka being billable).

Where I'm at currently (top 20, nationwide, niche as well) compensation is similar, but partner compensation isn't based on book/business brought in.

Long story short, being a CPA is what you make of it. Do you think I sit there and discuss GAAP/GAAS with my clients? No, not at all. Maybe some controllers, but the GP's I deal with don't care and therefore I discuss matters relevant to their business. Lastly, being a CPA can lead to wealth but it's long path with hard work. It's not going to happen over night, nor should it.

 

[lilpro4u]

You're not going to get wealthy unless like someone mentioned, you become a partner or start your own business.
Why the change, tho? You're teaching abroad, what field and where?

Are you not making enough money? Do you have a plan B, or C? I find it weird that you were open minded enough to pursue teaching/career abroad, but you would revert back to the typical American grind which probably won't reward you with happiness/fulfillment or wealth. It seems as if you would be qualified to work in the states, (or abroad) teach, NGO/non-profit, or Governmental. Are those not options?

 

[ricky409]

Originally Posted by qwerty330

i know this isn't what you want to hear, but what someone said above is absolutely true...accounting and wealthy do not go together.
i just started my first year at a Big4 and trust me when i say its not the life at all. not exaggerating at all, i make less than 14 dollars an hour. someone above said "dont believe the hype, accounting firms slave the crap out of you". Couldn't be more accurate. The only way you will be wealthy is if you make partner at a firm or start your own business, both of which is extremely extremely difficult to do.

and btw, CPA doesn't mean crap anymore. I passed it 6 months ago, then started working and realized everyone has one.

damb. homey brought the hammer.

 

[suniversal]

Originally Posted by qwerty330

i know this isn't what you want to hear, but what someone said above is absolutely true...accounting and wealthy do not go together.
i just started my first year at a Big4 and trust me when i say its not the life at all. not exaggerating at all, i make less than 14 dollars an hour. someone above said "dont believe the hype, accounting firms slave the crap out of you". Couldn't be more accurate. The only way you will be wealthy is if you make partner at a firm or start your own business, both of which is extremely extremely difficult to do.

and btw, CPA doesn't mean crap anymore. I passed it 6 months ago, then started working and realized everyone has one.

I don't agree with the post above. I'm in my second year at PwC and it has been a great experience, the pay is fair, 10% raise every July 1st and 2 spot bonuses per year keeps me happy. Maybe its your particular market? I'm in New York Metro and considered a specialist (IT Auditor).

 

[runningfishy]

LOL @ fake crap information here as well as some real.

1) Education doesn't sleep, neither does money. You can rock your fake LV glasses at clubs, but there's always someone working hard to better themselves. THIS IS THE FACT.

2) Higher education and degrees do not GUARANTEE YOU ANYTHING. Especially in today's environment, there are TONS of people w/ degrees, certificates and are UNEMPLOYED!!

But what does this all mean? This means that you should not stop, because the world is competitive, but to say that you want to get into debt in trying to succeed is unwise and a crap shoot. A 'real' career in accounting is NO BS. You have to know your stuff, and you have to be willing to devote the time down the road in re-verifying your knowledge through courses and what not. Needless to say, you'll need to 'upkeep' yourself. It's not where you pass the CPA and become set for life.

I don't care about the prominent big four as it's nothing but a brand, but this is a DOG EAT DOG WORLD, especially at the 'firms' and the turn-over rates are EXTREMELY HIGH; even at all levels.

OP, quite dreaming and living life on a linear scale. Try to be realistic. DEBT ain't funny. Allen Iverson and Antoine Walker both had a lot of money, but DEBT killed them. It ain't about what you make, it's what you don't lose.

LOL @ the fake baller status talk. Accountants, MACC, CPA don't equate to baller status. Just cuz you went on a few company tours, ya'll act like accountants are baller. lolzzzzzzzzz

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Blah blah blah. Accounting =/= wealth, true to a point, but let's be real.

It can, if you aren't spending all your money like an iBanker.

It doesn't take being docked at a Big 4 and pulling all nighters to create some wealth...it does take hard work and having a strong skillset that's in demand and pushing through the ranks, regardless of where you're at. Let me be frank, doing a year or two at a big 4 as a staff is overrated and virtually meaningless. Wow, you were a staff 1 working on Cash recs for a whole year!!! Awesome! Here, let me hire you right now to be my CFO!

I value my CPA and nothing a staff 1 at a big 4 says is going to diminish that. Not "everyone" has one, it's more so, most in industry have one because you can't grow/get promoted without one. The education requirement changes will also limit those who receive one in the future. Each firm also needs/wants to have a certain amount of their professionals with one for various reasons (i.e - AICPA, insurance, etc).

Do you guys think that any job that pays decently (by your salary/hours equation) is going to amount to a high per hour rate? Of course not....did you also expect something like that to be easy?

At my old firm (nationwide, top 100, niche market) managers started in the high 90s to 100k, principal 150k minimum and then partner. The partner track wasn't that hard (i.e. - you could actually have a life) and the compensation was tied to your book and overall hours (aka being billable).

Where I'm at currently (top 20, nationwide, niche as well) compensation is similar, but partner compensation isn't based on book/business brought in.

Long story short, being a CPA is what you make of it. Do you think I sit there and discuss GAAP/GAAS with my clients? No, not at all. Maybe some controllers, but the GP's I deal with don't care and therefore I discuss matters relevant to their business. Lastly, being a CPA can lead to wealth but it's long path with hard work. It's not going to happen over night, nor should it.

what's your name and firm?

 

[the4fifteen]

This thread is very motivating.  Working on my CPA right now, starting work in August for one of the Big 4.  This may be the motivation I need for my studies..  Anybody care to enlighten us with their CPA studying/testing experience?  I've taken BEC twice now and have gotten scores of 68 and 70.  Very frustrating to see the results for my hard work, but in the end, I have nobody to blame but myself.

I definitely agree with what has been said about MACC, CPA, etc not equating to wealth.  Getting these certifications and whatnot are certainly a stepping stone to becoming wealthy, but working in accounting as a lowly associate isn't going to cut it.  You need to put put in your due diligence first before you move up the ranks.  And in order to move up the ranks and become wealthy, you'll need your CPA.

Good thread guys, very insightful and motivating

 

[lazyj10]

Use Becker. They're the truth. One time, 25 out of my 30 questions in the first testlet of BEC was directly from Becker's study material.

 

[htxmade]

OP do whatever you want to, you know your goals!
Set them, go get them!
If u want to be wealthy try to find multiple cashflows from various sources.

 

[the4fifteen]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Use Becker. They're the truth. One time, 25 out of my 30 questions in the first testlet of BEC was directly from Becker's study material.

I'm using Becker right now.  Paid for by the firm too, which is good for my pocket.  I feel like BEC isn't even that hard of a subject, but for some reason I just can't pass.  Most likely its my study habits.  I've moved onto the next one and have FAR schedule in early July.

 

[lazyj10]

Good luck. BEC wasn't my cup of tea either, mainly because of the Cost Accounting portion. BEC, at least when I took it, was a hodge-podge of subjects thrown into the section with no simulation. Wasn't a fan. I wound up passing after a couple of 74s.

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by ModernDarwin

I graduated in 07, but have decided to change my career to accounting.  I'm 26.  Too late?  

For the CPA I need:
24 semester units (36 quarter units) of accounting

24 business units (36 quarter)

150 total units (225 quarter units).  

Currently, I have enough business units, 16 quarter units of accounting and 183 total quarter units.  So, I need 20 more quarter units (14 semester units) of accounting classes and 42 quarter units (20 semester units) of anything classes.

I'd like to get started on this and it looks like taking distance classes through California Community Colleges is acceptable.  Depending on the system (quarter vs. semester) I need approximately 10 classes (4 quarter units per class).  Any other suggestions?  I'd like to do it as cost and time effectively as possible. 

I am currently paying off student loans and teaching abroad.  Is it pointless to do all this before getting some experience working in accounting first?  Would it make sense to take the CPA test before I am employed at an accounting firm?  NT CPA's any general advice?

For anyone wanting to keep up with this thread for the info, I'll update it as I find out more and chart my progress.  I know other NTers are trying to get ahead too.  

Forget what others have said about accounting and their exagerrated and fake claims by 'some'.  You should definitely work in the field of your master's degree.  I never understood why you would or why anyone would obtain a 'master's degree' in a profession they are unsure of.  Unless you worked accounting and realize it's for you, then it makes NO SENSE to invest money into your MASTER's DEGREE.

A LOT OF EMPLOYERS will pay for higher education.  This is why a lot of college grads use the first few years of experience as a final guage in what they would want to do.  It's never to late to change, but the whole requirement of needing work experience for a masters program makes sense.

The problem I see with your mindset is that you're too linear in trying to compare, and trying to fulfill what you have set for yourself.  This might be what you see between your friends and yourself, or what your parents have set for you.  How can you go from teaching abroad to accounting?

If I were recruiting, I'd be able to snap my fingers and pick up a couple of rookies at recruit campuses STRICTLY devoted to accounting.  Know what I mean?  Why should I hire you?

It makes no sense for you to work at a CPA if you can't expose yourself to it.  BE REAL.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by The4Fifteen

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Use Becker. They're the truth. One time, 25 out of my 30 questions in the first testlet of BEC was directly from Becker's study material.

I'm using Becker right now.  Paid for by the firm too, which is good for my pocket.  I feel like BEC isn't even that hard of a subject, but for some reason I just can't pass.  Most likely its my study habits.  I've moved onto the next one and have FAR schedule in early July.

BEC was the easiest for me.  I just kept taking practice questions using software (I used Gleim because I paid out of my own pocket at first, and then my job decided to reimburse)

I can't wait until PA changes the law to remove the attest experience requirement and make me a CPA.  (one of 3 states that still require it)

 

[moderndarwin]

Thanks for the advice everyone. It is good to hear from all sides; the good, the bad and the ugly. I am changing my career and have set my mind up to do this. Even though my manner of speech is kidding, my commitment and goals are of course being taken seriously and with considerable thought. I don't expect to be rich overnight. I am doing everything at my own pace and am mostly curious in the options. My full time job currently pays the equivalent of approximately 68k or a year (based on how much I need to live the same lifestyle in California). However, this is not the future I envision for myself.

I either want a job that is progressive with a clear career path; such as a government accounting position, that every few years I move up and the hours and demands are reasonable. Alternatively, I want a specialized position that allows me to work at a variety of different firms. I know everyone says that 'experience is necessary' but working through corporate America I realize that it really is not. My school will get me an internship as part of my program and I am confident in my superb interview skills to be able to land me a job. I'm not as concerned with that at this point, as it is still over 2 years away. I am working full time and taking 2 or 3 classes a semester (3 semester a year including summer).

I just want to make sure I am doing the RIGHT path of education to help lead me to the above described goals. I've thought out ALL the other issues mentioned about hours, accounting, what I currently do, why I am doing it, etc etc.

So to succinctly say, again, can anyone tell me what benefits (after graduating in terms of types/quality of jobs) between
a) MACC program (general concentration)
b) MACC program (concentration in taxation)
c) MACC program (concentration in forensic accounting)
d) Masters of Taxation or double master's MACC and Master's of Taxation

Maybe easier to answer is what sort of job title/years of experience/education/responsibilities you had and why you like it or dislike it. For example, someone said IT Auditor but I really don't know what that means you do? I know my end goals..but the terminology of the positions tells me very little about what you actually do and what sort of career progression is available.  Eventually, my 'dream' would be to be a CFO for a education based startup company, or to have a cushy government job where I am the finance supervisor for a department and manage the budget.

 

[guytoosmooth]

I am doing the BA program for accounting at Ashford University online. But I really want to get into the IT field. I decided to go through with getting the bachelors degree in accounting just to have a degree and I could fall back on it if need be, but I have been studying to get my IT certifications on the side so I can land some jobs in the future. I have been hearing too many negative things about accounting like its boring and doesn't pay as much. I don't want to switch my major again, besides I like learning and doing the accounting stuff and I heard that in the IT career field certifications outweigh a degree.

 

[lazyj10]

I don't have a MACC and contemplated going the JD route when I was unhappy at my originaly firm....but prior to finding where I'm at currently.

For some public accounting insight (non-big 4) here's what I know:

1) Generally, smaller nationala/regional firms don't require you to choose audit or tax upon starting. Therefore, that allows you to get a little experience in both and then move toward the one you enjoy doing the most.

2) Those size firms are generally specialist in a certain industry or field. If you research and do your own due dilligence, you can figure out which one may be the best fit. If you're not trying to be the CFO of a Fortune 500, this route certainly would help prepare you especially if your at a place that specializes in the field you eventually see yourself.

3) Typical progression:
Year 1 (busy season 1) - Staff 1 role, compensation varies by market and it's been a long time since I've been a staff 1 but the range is probably $40 - $50k + OT.
Year 2 - Staff 2, small incremental increase in base comp usually remains with OT
Year 3 - Senior 1. This is where more client contact occurs and you begin to learn to be a primary reviewer and brush up on being able to not only understand technical knowledge but explain it/teach it. Comp high 50's to low/mid 60s, OT depending on the market.
Year 4 - Senior 2. Similar to the above, more review work, less prep work. Mid 60s - low 70k
Year 5 - Supervisor. Basically manager in training mode. Being able to do more admin and not being worried about being solely billable. More role with client interaction, industry events. High 80s - mid 90s + bonus (small)
Year 6 -8 - at this point, the years aren't as set in stone. It's more up to you and how you steer your career to the next level of either Senior Manager/Principal, prior to being a Partner.

Most places will say partner track is at/about 10 years. If you last till the manager level + have whatever certification, there's a lot more oppurtunity out of Public at that point than prior.

 

[da r entertainment]

Originally Posted by guytoosmooth

I am doing the BA program for accounting at Ashford University online. But I really want to get into the IT field. I decided to go through with getting the bachelors degree in accounting just to have a degree and I could fall back on it if need be, but I have been studying to get my IT certifications on the side so I can land some jobs in the future. I have been hearing too many negative things about accounting like its boring and doesn't pay as much. I don't want to switch my major again, besides I like learning and doing the accounting stuff and I heard that in the IT career field certifications outweigh a degree.

This is EXACTLY what I've decided to do as well minus going to Ashford.  I started class last night for accounting and even though it was alot of information I actually found it very interesting. One of the gentlemen in the IT department here at my gig gave me a copy of the study material for the IT certifications which I will study and take the tests for in the very near future.  Any job can get boring that you're really not in to and the money will follow if you love what you're doing.  

 

[guytoosmooth]

I'm studying for the A+ right now

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by ModernDarwin

Thanks for the advice everyone. It is good to hear from all sides; the good, the bad and the ugly. I am changing my career and have set my mind up to do this. Even though my manner of speech is kidding, my commitment and goals are of course being taken seriously and with considerable thought. I don't expect to be rich overnight. I am doing everything at my own pace and am mostly curious in the options. My full time job currently pays the equivalent of approximately 68k or a year (based on how much I need to live the same lifestyle in California). However, this is not the future I envision for myself.

I either want a job that is progressive with a clear career path; such as a government accounting position, that every few years I move up and the hours and demands are reasonable. Alternatively, I want a specialized position that allows me to work at a variety of different firms. I know everyone says that 'experience is necessary' but working through corporate America I realize that it really is not. My school will get me an internship as part of my program and I am confident in my superb interview skills to be able to land me a job. I'm not as concerned with that at this point, as it is still over 2 years away. I am working full time and taking 2 or 3 classes a semester (3 semester a year including summer).

I just want to make sure I am doing the RIGHT path of education to help lead me to the above described goals. I've thought out ALL the other issues mentioned about hours, accounting, what I currently do, why I am doing it, etc etc.

So to succinctly say, again, can anyone tell me what benefits (after graduating in terms of types/quality of jobs) between
a) MACC program (general concentration)
b) MACC program (concentration in taxation)
c) MACC program (concentration in forensic accounting)
d) Masters of Taxation or double master's MACC and Master's of Taxation

Maybe easier to answer is what sort of job title/years of experience/education/responsibilities you had and why you like it or dislike it. For example, someone said IT Auditor but I really don't know what that means you do? I know my end goals..but the terminology of the positions tells me very little about what you actually do and what sort of career progression is available.  Eventually, my 'dream' would be to be a CFO for a education based startup company, or to have a cushy government job where I am the finance supervisor for a department and manage the budget.

Your job pays 68K a year and you feel you can make the same in the ACCTG field?

 

[runningfishy]

The biggest concern I see with your mind set is that you're afraid to try and adapt. I can tell that your history is a big reason why you want security and a defined path. It's understandable, but obviously, this is never the case in life. Life is about making decisions and learning from it. You can't say you like one or the other w/o trying. You should discover this yourself and stop worrying about a linear path. It DOES NOT EXIST!!

Your internship should be the point where you decide what you may like or dislike.

 

[Majorbread]

I'm starting at a Big 4 full time this August and cant wait to be frank.

Lot of people have bad things to say about Big 4, but in all honesty, what did they expect? I dont think working at a big 4 automatically means I will be 'wealthy' per se, but It will give me the opportunity to build a skill set that can add value to an organization. I mean realistically if you look at most executives at fortune 500 companies, alot have Big 4 backgrounds. Does that automatically mean everyone will reach those positions? No but i think it gives you the option/opportunity if that's what you wish to pursue.

I will be working in a Mid-market city and I think employees really benefit more so there than a large city like LA or NY. Because our office is smaller, as a staff you get to do more things within an audit than you would if you were working in NY or LA. Their intern classes were like 200+ where ours was like 16.

The progression and salary progression in Public accounting is tough to find elsewhere (besides finance/IBs,etc..), especially compared to industry positions. If you're willing to work hard and accept that its going to be a grind, then its a great route. If your not ready to work hard and learn as much as possible I'm sure life would be hell at a big 4.

And I think anyone can be wealthy if they learn to live beneath their means.