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1. Kobe 2. MJ 3. Dr. J 4. Miller 5. West
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1. Kobe 2. MJ
Word?
Give me Logo over Bean. I don't have much an issue with the rest of the list...Originally Posted by ESPN
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Jerry West
4. George Gervin
5. Allen Iverson
6. Clyde Drexler
7. Reggie Miller
8. Pete Maravich
9. Earl Monroe
10. Joe Dumars
Others receiving votes (points): Sam Jones (31), Dwyane Wade (23), Hal Greer (19), David Thompson (14), Bill Sharman (9), Dave Bing (6), Tracy McGrady (5), Sidney Moncrief (5), Manu Ginobili (4), Ray Allen (3), Paul Arizin (2), Vince Carter (2), Dennis Johnson (1), Gail Goodrich (1), Drazen Petrovic (1), Mitch Richmond (1), Jimmy Walker (1).
Dwyane Wade is already the 12th best SG of all-time, ESPN sportswriters?OK.
Mitch Richmond getting only 1 vote is a little strange...
One question I have is, why are so many people quick to discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq? I mean if you wanna take it there... Jerry West did not win his championship until Wilt got there... and that only after playing with Wilt for about 4-5 years. Oh by the way, he also had the help from another Hall of Famer, Gail Goodrich. MJ played with a top 50 player(Scottie), the best rebounder and arguably the best defender ever(Rodman), GREAT shooters (Hodges, Kerr, Paxson), arguably the best European player ever in his prime (Kucoc), and had the best coach in the history of the game(Jackson).
good post. i hear stuff like that that way too often on here.
there tends to be a general sentiment on here that MJ won all of his championships by himself. people won't just come out and say it outright, but from thestatements people make you can tell that they see it that way. its just not true.
the Bulls were SICK. realize that they would should have made the FINALS without MJ. the truth is that Jordan couldn't have won close to six championships without that great team. most NTersbelieve he was God, but guess what? without, i wont even mention the whole team, without Pippen alone, his career would have looked a lot more human than itdid.
not knocking MJ. actually he probably still would have been considered the GOAT if he had just won maybe one or two. his career average was already #1 in NBAhistory before the year when he won, and he was pretty much considered the most amazing guy to step on the court.
i'm just saying, if you discredit Kobe for playing with Shaq, discredit MJ for playing with one of the best supporting casts in league history. don'tsay "Kobe had Shaq" and then say something like "MJ willed himself to six championships on his own"
I would take West, Maravich, and Iverson over Kobe.
Any day.
All day.
Every time you ask me.
Give Maravich, Iverson, or West the EXACT career Kobe has had... playing with one of the league's top 5 centers ever for like 8 years ('96-'97 to '03-'04, right?) and one of the top 3 coaches of all time, and they would at LEAST do what Kobe has done; I think they would do better, though.
Key word is "give." Reality is, they didn't have the same career as Kobe. How is it that Penny and Wade couldn't win three straighttitles with "one of the league's top 5 centers"? And T-Mac?
"Give" Kobe the career that West had, and I guarantee you that he would've led the team to more than 1 ring in 9 Finals appearances. Face it;West wouldn't even make the All-NBA 5th team in today's league.
Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43
One question I have is, why are so many people quick to discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq? I mean if you wanna take it there... Jerry West did not win his championship until Wilt got there... and that only after playing with Wilt for about 4-5 years. Oh by the way, he also had the help from another Hall of Famer, Gail Goodrich. MJ played with a top 50 player(Scottie), the best rebounder and arguably the best defender ever(Rodman), GREAT shooters (Hodges, Kerr, Paxson), arguably the best European player ever in his prime (Kucoc), and had the best coach in the history of the game(Jackson).
Face it; West wouldn't even make the All-NBA 5th team in today's league.
Originally Posted by sStutter
I would take West, Maravich, and Iverson over Kobe.
Any day.
All day.
Every time you ask me.
Give Maravich, Iverson, or West the EXACT career Kobe has had... playing with one of the league's top 5 centers ever for like 8 years ('96-'97 to '03-'04, right?) and one of the top 3 coaches of all time, and they would at LEAST do what Kobe has done; I think they would do better, though.
Greg Anthony gave votes for Reggie Miller and Drexler but none for AI? Not a SINGLE vote from Greg for AI??
This is why..
Tim Legler really has Joe D over AI?
While AI was clearly a better offensive player, Joe D might very well have been a more all around player..
Finals MVP
4x NBA All 1st team defense
6x NBA All Star
Face it; West wouldn't even make the All-NBA 5th team in today's league.
Come on man
This is why..Originally Posted by grittyman20
Greg Anthony gave votes for Reggie Miller and Drexler but none for AI? Not a SINGLE vote from Greg for AI??
Tim Legler really has Joe D over AI?
While AI was clearly a better offensive player, Joe D might very well have been a more all around player..
Finals MVP
4x NBA All 1st team defense
6x NBA All Star
Ah yes...... that might explain Greg's hate.
And don't get me wrong, Joe D was a complete player. But AI is a franchise player (not to say that Joe D couldn't have been one if there wasno Zeke, Laimbeer, etc). What AI has done (is doing!) with defenses keyed to stop him and ONLY him is incredible though. So I definitely have him ahead of Joe.
AI and West (stats-wise [27.8 ppg 6.3 apg to 27.0 ppg 6.7 apg] and size-wise [6'0 165 to 6'2 175) are very similar. Of course, Jerry was a bettershooter. Which is why I wouldn't put AI over him. West also led the L in assists. And was part of the 33 game win streak too. He also shares with AI thatwillingness to play through pain.
Equally legendary was West's tolerance for pain. Not blessed with great size, strength, or dribbling ability, West made up for these deficiencies with pure hustle and an apparent lack of regard for his body. He broke his nose at least nine times. On more than one occasion West had to be helped to the court before games in which he ultimately scored 30 or 40 points.
Like I said, dudes talking about Jerry West wouldn't make ALL-NBA need to catch up on your history!
Equally legendary was West's tolerance for pain. Not blessed with great size, strength, or dribbling ability, West made up for these deficiencies with pure hustle and an apparent lack of regard for his body. He broke his nose at least nine times. On more than one occasion West had to be helped to the court before games in which he ultimately scored 30 or 40 points.
fail. name one player on any All-NBA team since 1984 that doesn't have one of those characteristics.
there isn't. here's the list so you can see for yourself:
http://www.nba.com/history/awards_allnba
not saying he wasn't good, but that just proves that West wouldn't hold up in today's NBA or in MJs era either.
I like when people overrate older players like you've ever seen them play. Abbreviated espn classic joints do not count.
exactly what I was thinking. Its like when there are the best centers ever discussion and everyone votes Bill Russell. You know you havent seenhis @*@ play except on ESPN classic. You know the game is completely different now then it was then. You are able to look up stats and heard a bunch of coolstories so that player is automatically better even though you never saw him play. Bottomline is, the game is different today than it was back then. What wasamazing back then is normal now and what was expected back then is rare now.
It's apples to oranges with throwing in a bunch of theoretical situations.
"Oh, give AI, West, or Maravich Kobe's team and the do just as much and more".
"Ahhh, take Kobe off those three championship teams and they don't win"
We will never know these things and it is impossible to compare. Each player peaked at almost a completely different point in time and the game continuallychanges.
Originally Posted by Karmex
I like when people overrate older players like you've ever seen them play. Abbreviated espn classic joints do not count.
Originally Posted by here 4 tha kickz
Originally Posted by Officer Andre
Can someone convince me that Reggie Miller is better than Ray Allen?
Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43
Equally legendary was West's tolerance for pain. Not blessed with great size, strength, or dribbling ability, West made up for these deficiencies with pure hustle and an apparent lack of regard for his body. He broke his nose at least nine times. On more than one occasion West had to be helped to the court before games in which he ultimately scored 30 or 40 points.
Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43
Originally Posted by Karmex
I like when people overrate older players like you've ever seen them play. Abbreviated espn classic joints do not count.
people just like to feel intelligent by bringing up somebody most people don't know/care about and saying "tsk tsk, read up on your history". its always pretty funny
Others receiving votes (points): Sam Jones (31), Dwyane Wade (23), Hal Greer (19), David Thompson (14), Bill Sharman (9), Dave Bing (6), Tracy McGrady (5), Sidney Moncrief (5), Manu Ginobili (4), Ray Allen (3), Paul Arizin (2), Vince Carter (2), Dennis Johnson (1), Gail Goodrich (1), Drazen Petrovic (1), Mitch Richmond (1), Jimmy Walker (1).
Amazing.
THANK YOU.Originally Posted by Karmex
I like when people overrate older players like you've ever seen them play. Abbreviated espn classic joints do not count.