Free Gaza!!!

[generalthirst]

 

[callhimar]

Obvious propaganda is obvious.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

This infuriates me. Are you kidding me right now with this B.S. propaganda?

Have you ever lived or stepped foot in Gaza? How about you go live in refugee camps like a cattle and be imprisoned stripped away from your basic and fundamental and human rights with bombs dropping in your backyard and family members killed off just because they are Palestinian Arabs.

Can't believe there are some who make this kind of propaganda to try to conceal the truth and then some swallow it for their intentional agendas when what is happening over there is so abominable and unjustifiable. That's the influential Israel PR for you.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

This infuriates me. Are you kidding me right now with this B.S. propaganda?

Have you ever lived or stepped foot in Gaza? How about you go live in refugee camps like a cattle and be imprisoned stripped away from your basic and fundamental and human rights with bombs dropping in your backyard and family members killed off just because they are Palestinian Arabs.

Can't believe there are some who make this kind of propaganda to try to conceal the truth and then some swallow it for their intentional agendas when what is happening over there is so abominable and unjustifiable. That's the influential Israel PR for you.

 

[dwyanewadeog]

^dont forget the reason for the large increase of Israeli land from 1949-1967 came from the ARAB ISRAELI WAR when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the map. I mean you cant go to war, lose, and then whine when your land gets taken.

 

[jerome in the house]

OP you're a moron

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

^dont forget the reason for the large increase of Israeli land from 1949-1967 came from the ARAB ISRAELI WAR when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the map. I mean you cant go to war, lose, and then whine when your land gets taken.

Those Arab countries went to war for what they thought was an invasion of Palestinian Arab territory and since the partition plan was unjustly drafted giving most of the land as a Jewish state.But, ok, yes, they did lose the war.

At that time, conventional international laws were set up, and even if you go to war and take over land, you have to give it back because under international law that is considered illegal and an occupation. 

  

 

[martin and co]

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C, 2,000 years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C., the Jews have had dominion over the land for 1,000 years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the Muslim conquest in 635 A.D. lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur'an (Koran).

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be about the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, the Arabs are the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended herself each time and won.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons. [See Fatah Charter/Constitution.]

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The United Nations (U.N.) Record on Israel and the Arabs: Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 U.N. General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting their holy sites at the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

  

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

^dont forget the reason for the large increase of Israeli land from 1949-1967 came from the ARAB ISRAELI WAR when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the map. I mean you cant go to war, lose, and then whine when your land gets taken.

Those Arab countries went to war for what they thought was an invasion of Palestinian Arab territory and since the partition plan was unjustly drafted giving most of the land as a Jewish state.But, ok, yes, they did lose the war.

At that time, conventional international laws were set up, and even if you go to war and take over land, you have to give it back because under international law that is considered illegal and an occupation. 

  

But Hazel, it was a defensive war! So they can keep the land right??

Someone actually said that to me, and when I asked how can you possibly gain land in a defensive war, they looked at me like their head was about to explode and their entire belief system had been shattered into a million pieces.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MARTIN AND CO

A bunch of crock of B.S. 

Israel was never a state until its establishment in as a state in 1948. Historically, the area known as Palestine has been occupied by many different peoples, even BEFORE those who identified themselves as Jews or Arabs. To try and identify the ORIGINAL people in the area is a useless exercise. There were tribes there even before Jews came from Egypt. Some Palestinian Arabs can be traced to be descendents of those ancient tribes in the Land of Canaan. Historically, the kingdom of Israel was preceded by non-Jewish kingdoms and succeeded by non-Jewish kingdoms too.

There was never a Palestinian identity? Infact, people in that land used to called Palestinian whether they were Jews or Arabs Muslims or Christians. That land used to be predominantly Muslim, with the majority being Arabs for also thousands of years, until 1948. However, Arabs Muslims and CHristians, as well as Jews, used to all get along and coexist peacefully. Do you even think anyone used to be called Israeli or there was some sort of Israeli identity before the Jewish state of Israel was created?

Palestinians were forced to leave by their Arab leaders? How about they were being invaded and some left due to fear, or because of persecution, or to seek refuge and safety? Isn' that what happens in wars? Some were also forced out when their homes were demolished or invaded or their villages were massacred. This cannot be denied, it is all documented in historical records and archives.

Cut the crap of how Palestinian culture or identity doesn ot exist. That is a whole propaganda by extremist Zionist thinking who want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians and the Palestinian people as being some sort of nonexistent entity of people.

 
 

  

 

[callhimar]

This is going to be fun.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C., the Jews have had dominion over the land for 1,000 years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
Really? Domination is a very VAGUE word to use to say the least. At the turn of the 20th century while the area was under Ottoman rule Arabs outnumbered Jews in the region 40 to 1. By World War I there were around 590,000 Arabs and 24,000 Jews. 1947 is the only time it got really close, with the ratio shrinking to around 2 to 1.

4. The only Arab dominion since the Muslim conquest in 635 A.D. lasted no more than 22 years.
I assume you don't count the Ottoman Empire as Arab domination since they were Turks. This is understandable. I'll also assume this refers to Muhammad Ali when he entered Palestine after taking over Egypt. However, the Ottomans were very hands off in their rule of Palestine, and the 25,000 Jews certainly didn't rule the land, so there was in fact Arab rule for much of the time.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
Shouldn't we say that it has also been the Christian capitol? We're talking figuratively here obviously, so that makes sense. The Jordanians already had a capitol, why would they make an occupied city the capitol of their land?

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur'an (Koran).

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

While it may not be mentioned in the Qu'ran itself, it does play a large part in the history of Islam. This is obvious when you look at the story of the Prophets night journey to Jerusalem. Also, Muslims, for a period early in the faith, did in fact face Jerusalem while they prayed. So contrary to what these "facts" attempt to establish, Jerusalem is a very holy city in the Muslim faith.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
They were also encouraged to leave Israel at the point of Israeli guns, terror tactics and massacres of entire Palestinian towns. See: "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe. It's pretty eye opening.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, the Arabs are the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
They were not absorbed because they didn't think they needed to be. Those who were wealthy enough to actually leave before the massacres and terror attacks started fully intended to go back after the fighting was over. This had happened before, and a number of the more wealthy individuals had other homes in Jordan or Syria that they visited. However, they did not anticipate their homes in Palestine being taken from them and occupied by other families. Also, it was not the other Arab nations responsibility to absorb these refugees, because again, they should have been allowed to return to their homes. However Israel had other plans clearly.

Jewish refugees TOOK the land, they were not absorbed.

13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended herself each time and won.
The Israelis are also backed by some of the strongest powers in the world. There are a number of reasons those wars did not end differently as well including the fact that the Arab armies, while having more countries behind them, were vastly outnumbered by Israeli troops. Also the lack of organization and Jordanian secret negotiations had a huge part in these defeats as well.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons. [See Fatah Charter/Constitution.]
Hamas has rethought the wording of its charter, and is becoming a much more stable political group. There are elements that are extreme, but there are also elements that are more Liberal.

Israel continues to expand settlements on West Bank land. There is NO autonomy at all. Israel still controls the borders and also controls who can get in and out of the towns in the West Bank. To say that the PA is autonomous is naive and downright lying.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
I'm not sure why you brought this up. Jordanian =/= Palestinian.

People of all faiths, unless you have Palestinian citizenship in which case you can't actually move freely into Jerusalem without dealing with Israeli bureaucracy.

16. The United Nations (U.N.) Record on Israel and the Arabs: Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 U.N. General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting their holy sites at the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

As clearly noted by the facts you've presented here, the UN is completely inept since every resolution passed condemning Israeli action has been completely ignored or vetoed by the United States. While what the Arab Legion did was wrong, the ethnic cleansing carried out by the Israelis was substantially worse.

I'm sure someone else can take care of the ones I missed.

 

[generalthirst]

 

[shatterkneesinc]

there are so many things i want to say but i dont want to get banned

 

[generalthirst]

Originally Posted by iLLest

OP, I wish I could lay you out.
Astaghfurillah. 

You're new, so I can see an early Ban in the making.

Cue the %%%$ gifs.

iLLest!

Look at you trying to resort to Arab aggression.

Your new, my old user name got hacked. chixNkix been on since 02. 

 

[Animal Thug]

This is always a sensative subject on NT. I'm forced to stay out of these threads due to the ignorance and uneducated responses.

Much respect to AR and Hazel. Very staright forward point of views and accurate responses. That's all I gotta say.

 

[wwsindicate]

... is all I have to say, close your laptop and open a book once in awhile.

 

[generalthirst]

Originally Posted by wwsindicate

... is all I have to say, close your laptop and open a book once in awhile.

What book do you want me to open? The ones that state that Israel is the only striving democracy in the region.

 

[shatterkneesinc]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

^dont forget the reason for the large increase of Israeli land from 1949-1967 came from the ARAB ISRAELI WAR when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the map. I mean you cant go to war, lose, and then whine when your land gets taken.

and lets not mention how the united states helped israel

 

[martin and co]

I guess it was silly to think you can post something without it becoming an all out discourse. Every one of those facts is accurate within its point.


Palestine; from Philistine(s), believed to be non-Semitic people, absorbed into the culture of Canaan, who's land previously belonged to ancient Egypt( ie Egypt before Arabs). Philistines had prolonged military conflicts with the Kingdom is Israel, until the Philistines were converted to Judaism.

There is no "palestinian identity" in the way its presented by modern day Arabs who lay claim to the same lands Israel does.

Look at the maps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

The Kingdom of Israel existed before Islam (which is the root and motivator of the conflict, not land really, but rather religion) was created.


There are so many things posted I can't respond to everything on order. Discussing facts further isn't really posting a rebuttal if they're accurate.

Lets see:

Muslims/Christians/Jews never lived in peace. I don't know why people say this, there were periods of peaces throughout different times when level headed leaders had power, but just mentioning the crusades I think is enough.

Israel had its main backing from the US, but its not as if the Arab countries were solo, they had huge support from the Soviet Union with full weapons systems arsenals of every kind. Arabs were never really outnumbered, just outsmarted.


Like I said the conflict isn't really about land, its about religion. The Arabs and Muslims most involved in funding terror ("liberation") don't really have history with "palestine" at all. It's a religious war, why else would Saudis, emiraties, Afghans, Pakis, etc contribute money to anti-Israel groups?


I feel bad for anyone who suffers. Innocent Arab kids have no fault in anything and to see them and their families suffer is sad. But the fact remains that Arabs contributed to the founding of Israel more than anyone. The Turks were complete monsters to whoever they came in contact with that wasn't Muslim, they almost wiped Armenia off the map with systematic genocide, their record with the greeks speaks for itself, etc etc and thats just recently.

Important Arabs backed and supported anti-Jewish action in WW1, WW2, etc. so I feel sorry for individuals who suffer in the middle east today, but as far as Israel as a state, I have no support for any groups who want to claim a land there. Private land within Israel, sure, but as far as a country, Palestine as defined by modern day Arabs never existed.

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by shatterkneesinc

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

^dont forget the reason for the large increase of Israeli land from 1949-1967 came from the ARAB ISRAELI WAR when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the map. I mean you cant go to war, lose, and then whine when your land gets taken.

and lets not mention how the united states helped israel

It wasn't necessarily the aid from the United States at that time, France was actually Israels primary backer back then. The reason for what happened in 1948 was a combination of the Arab armies being vastly outnumbered and outgunned and the best Arab troops being directed to only defend the territories of the West Bank which would be given to Jordan at the end of the war. The Israeli narrative of this war being a David v. Goliath battle is a myth. There was no Arab Goliath. They were outnumbered from the very beginning.

'67 was slightly different. While Nasser took a number of provacative measures, he never actually struck first, the Israelis did. Everything is speculation. If the Egyptian Air Force had not been taken out in the initial Israeli attack who knows what could have taken place. It surely would not have been as one sided as it was though. Certainly was a more serious threat than '48.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by iLLest


Fasho you troll.
iLLest!

Are you Arab? I thought maybe you were South Asian.

CallHimAR, I love you.

Always knocking them with knowledge in the most eloquent manner. I had no patience to reply to all those points. I would be giving the longest explanations. lol

  

 

[shatterkneesinc]

Originally Posted by GeneralThirst

Originally Posted by wwsindicate

... is all I have to say, close your laptop and open a book once in awhile.

What book do you want me to open? The ones that state that Israel is the only striving democracy in the region.

how the hell are you going to call Israel a democracy when you have a star of david in your flag and a menorah as the official symbol of the government and the infamous mossad
separation of church and state is one of the fundamentals of democracy but clearly israel is run by people of special interest

 

[generalthirst]

Go to any other country in the region and you need to abide by sharia law or else you get stoned. There are plenty of Palestinian Arabs living in Israeli city's like Haifa, Yafo, Jerusalem who thrive and live good lives in Israel. Israel wants peace. It's the Palestinians who don't.

 

[icykicks79]

Originally Posted by GeneralThirst

Go to any other country in the region and you need to abide by sharia law or else you get stoned. There are plenty of Palestinian Arabs living in Israeli city's like Haifa, Yafo, Jerusalem who thrive and live good lives in Israel. Israel wants peace. It's the Palestinians who don't.

. Wow

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by MARTIN AND CO

I guess it was silly to think you can post something without it becoming an all out discourse. Every one of those facts is accurate within its point.


Palestine; from Philistine(s), believed to be non-Semitic people, absorbed into the culture of Canaan, who's land previously belonged to ancient Egypt( ie Egypt before Arabs). Philistines had prolonged military conflicts with the Kingdom is Israel, until the Philistines were converted to Judaism.

There is no "palestinian identity" in the way its presented by modern day Arabs who lay claim to the same lands Israel does.

Look at the maps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

The Kingdom of Israel existed before Islam (which is the root and motivator of the conflict, not land really, but rather religion) was created.


There are so many things posted I can't respond to everything on order. Discussing facts further isn't really posting a rebuttal if they're accurate.

Lets see:

Muslims/Christians/Jews never lived in peace. I don't know why people say this, there were periods of peaces throughout different times when level headed leaders had power, but just mentioning the crusades I think is enough.

Israel had its main backing from the US, but its not as if the Arab countries were solo, they had huge support from the Soviet Union with full weapons systems arsenals of every kind. Arabs were never really outnumbered, just outsmarted.


Like I said the conflict isn't really about land, its about religion. The Arabs and Muslims most involved in funding terror ("liberation") don't really have history with "palestine" at all. It's a religious war, why else would Saudis, emiraties, Afghans, Pakis, etc contribute money to anti-Israel groups?


I feel bad for anyone who suffers. Innocent Arab kids have no fault in anything and to see them and their families suffer is sad. But the fact remains that Arabs contributed to the founding of Israel more than anyone. The Turks were complete monsters to whoever they came in contact with that wasn't Muslim, they almost wiped Armenia off the map with systematic genocide, their record with the greeks speaks for itself, etc etc and thats just recently.

Important Arabs backed and supported anti-Jewish action in WW1, WW2, etc. so I feel sorry for individuals who suffer in the middle east today, but as far as Israel as a state, I have no support for any groups who want to claim a land there. Private land within Israel, sure, but as far as a country, Palestine as defined by modern day Arabs never existed.

The Kingdom of Israel existed before Islam (which is the root andmotivator of the conflict, not land really, but rather religion) wascreated.
So because the kingdom of Israel existed before Islam Palestinians don't have a right to live there? What kind of logic is this? Religion was not the root cause of this. Early Zionists were actually SECULAR and used Jewish identity and tradition to get people behind them, but they still saw themselves as a secular entity.

Muslims/Christians/Jews never lived in peace. I don't know why peoplesay this, there were periods of peaces throughout different times whenlevel headed leaders had power, but just mentioning the crusades Ithink is enough.
This is all about how you choose to view it. I could say that these groups did in fact live in peace (because they did) with small intervals of war (like the Crusades) and have this be completely true as well. Just mentioning the Crusades is not enough. The people in the region did live in peace for a long, long time.

Israel had its main backing from the US, but its not as if the Arabcountries were solo, they had huge support from the Soviet Union withfull weapons systems arsenals of every kind. Arabs were never reallyoutnumbered, just outsmarted.
NEVER REALLY OUTNUMBERED!? ARE YOU %@@%!++ KIDDING ME???? I really can't. I can't. I've addressed this in the previous post. This is a complete JOKE and a lie. Never outnumbered.

Like I said the conflict isn't really about land, its about religion.The Arabs and Muslims most involved in funding terror ("liberation")don't really have history with "palestine" at all. It's a religiouswar, why else would Saudis, emiraties, Afghans, Pakis, etc contributemoney to anti-Israel groups?
Why did people from Europe and the United States support the creation of Israel. No, it wasn't because of religion.

I'm going to stop here because quite simply, you have a VERY skewed view of the issues and it's sad. You're not going to change your mind, but if you're ever willing to attempt to read something that falls outside of your worldview I'd be MORE than happy to recommend you a few books.

CallHimAR, I love you.

Always knocking them with knowledge in the most eloquent manner. I hadno patience to reply to all those points. I would be giving the longestexplanations. lol

Guess I kind of ruined it after he said the Arabs were "never outnumbered." Unreal.

Go to any other country in the region and you need to abide by sharialaw or else you get stoned. There are plenty of Palestinian Arabsliving in Israeli city's like Haifa, Yafo, Jerusalem who thrive and live good lives in Israel. Israel wants peace. It's the Palestinians who don't.
What world do you live in? Every other country in the region abides by Sharia? Really? All of them? Every. Single. One?

Israel wants peace! But they kill thousands in Gaza and illegally occupy the West Bank to get there right?

Again, where is the logic?