HAKEEM THE DREAM BEING UNDERAPPRECIATED DISAPPRECAITION POST...vol. Best Ever.

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

hakeem is very underappreciated that 93-94 season where he won mvp and defensive player of the year was one of the best seasons ever for a center there's no arguing that hakeem was underappreicated, but shaq will go down as a better center then him.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by JD617

92-95 Hakeem > any Kareem or Shaq.

'99-'00 Shaq > any year Hakeem ever had.


Playing against an old Sabonis, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac and Luc Longley in the four playoff series? Not likely.

Winning MVP, Finals MVP AND DPOY in the same season + winning a championship with nothing but role players and not a single all-star nor legit #2 man > Shaq's kid in a candy store stat boosting 99-00 season.

99-00 shaq would have dismantled hakeem



Shaq's 94-95 stats:

29.3 ppg on .583
11.4 rpg
2.7 apg
0.9 spg
2.4 bpg

in 37.0 mpg

Shaq's 99-00 stats:

29.7 ppg on .574
13.6 rpg
3.8 apg
0.5 spg
3.0 bpg

in 40.0 mpg

Shaq was just as efficient in 94-95 as in 99-00. And most importantly the stats in 94-95 came in a league that was much better when it came to the center position. Keep comforting yourself that Shaq was some young kid when Hakeem swept him in 95. He led the league in scoring that year. He was selected to the all-NBA second team over Hakeem who was all-NBA third team. He was at the end of his third year in the NBA, and he adjusted to the NBA game from day 1. Hakeem did more in 85-86 as a sophomore than Shaq did in 94-95. Magic led his team to win the championship without Kareem in his rookie year. Bird and Duncan won championships in their sophomore seasons. Sorry, Shaq doesn't get a free pass for being swept in the 95 finals in his third year, especially when he had at least as good of a supporting cast as Hakeem, probably better. Shaq was never quite the same athletically after his injury plagued 95-98 seasons. He just woke up in a league without centers.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by JD617

92-95 Hakeem > any Kareem or Shaq.

'99-'00 Shaq > any year Hakeem ever had.


Playing against an old Sabonis, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac and Luc Longley in the four playoff series? Not likely.

Winning MVP, Finals MVP AND DPOY in the same season + winning a championship with nothing but role players and not a single all-star nor legit #2 man > Shaq's kid in a candy store stat boosting 99-00 season.

99-00 shaq would have dismantled hakeem



Shaq's 94-95 stats:

29.3 ppg on .583
11.4 rpg
2.7 apg
0.9 spg
2.4 bpg

in 37.0 mpg

Shaq's 99-00 stats:

29.7 ppg on .574
13.6 rpg
3.8 apg
0.5 spg
3.0 bpg

in 40.0 mpg

Shaq was just as efficient in 94-95 as in 99-00. And most importantly the stats in 94-95 came in a league that was much better when it came to the center position. Keep comforting yourself that Shaq was some young kid when Hakeem swept him in 95. He led the league in scoring that year. He was selected to the all-NBA second team over Hakeem who was all-NBA third team. He was at the end of his third year in the NBA, and he adjusted to the NBA game from day 1. Hakeem did more in 85-86 as a sophomore than Shaq did in 94-95. Magic led his team to win the championship without Kareem in his rookie year. Bird and Duncan won championships in their sophomore seasons. Sorry, Shaq doesn't get a free pass for being swept in the 95 finals in his third year, especially when he had at least as good of a supporting cast as Hakeem, probably better. Shaq was never quite the same athletically after his injury plagued 95-98 seasons. He just woke up in a league without centers.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

another point

if hakeem was so great,why didnt he win more rings?


look at the talent he had:

ralph sampson in his prime
clyde drexler in his prime
otis thorpe in his prime
barkley right as his prime ended
pippen right as his prime ended
robert horry
sam cassell
steve francis
cutino mobely



and a lot of great role players:

kenny smith
mario ellie
veron maxwell



thats not amazing talent,but he definetly played with more talent than jordan,and jordan got 6 rings all while hakeem was playing.


if hakeem was so great why didnt he win more rings?

i mean since he was such a force on both ends of the court.

dont forget he was kind of a black hole once the ball went into the post,because he'd be doin all his moves and his teammates would be standing around.



to me he aint that great because after the second championship he had some great teams from 95-96 til 98-99 (4 seasons) and like somebody said they were never the best team in the league.

he should have still been effective those years just because of his skill level and because of the fact that he was a big man.

old big men are usually more effective than old guards,because of their size.

hes still the most skilled big man ever though.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

another point

if hakeem was so great,why didnt he win more rings?


look at the talent he had:

ralph sampson in his prime
clyde drexler in his prime
otis thorpe in his prime
barkley right as his prime ended
pippen right as his prime ended
robert horry
sam cassell
steve francis
cutino mobely



and a lot of great role players:

kenny smith
mario ellie
veron maxwell



thats not amazing talent,but he definetly played with more talent than jordan,and jordan got 6 rings all while hakeem was playing.


if hakeem was so great why didnt he win more rings?

i mean since he was such a force on both ends of the court.

dont forget he was kind of a black hole once the ball went into the post,because he'd be doin all his moves and his teammates would be standing around.



to me he aint that great because after the second championship he had some great teams from 95-96 til 98-99 (4 seasons) and like somebody said they were never the best team in the league.

he should have still been effective those years just because of his skill level and because of the fact that he was a big man.

old big men are usually more effective than old guards,because of their size.

hes still the most skilled big man ever though.

 

[ehh]

^ Exactly X.  It always cracks me up that so many people think Shaq peaked from 99-03.  He was just doing what he'd been doing since his second year in the league, just so happens that the rest of the league was awful and there were no good big men left which opened the door for his titles - along with Kobe starting to come into his prime and Phil coming.  Perfect storm for Shaq.  It was basically a three team league in that stretch (LA, San Antonio and Sacramento) and the Eastern Conference was practically the D-League.

 

[ehh]

^ Exactly X.  It always cracks me up that so many people think Shaq peaked from 99-03.  He was just doing what he'd been doing since his second year in the league, just so happens that the rest of the league was awful and there were no good big men left which opened the door for his titles - along with Kobe starting to come into his prime and Phil coming.  Perfect storm for Shaq.  It was basically a three team league in that stretch (LA, San Antonio and Sacramento) and the Eastern Conference was practically the D-League.

 

[dmxfury]

A dominant player but even better human. One of the few players that could honestly be a role model

And I still say 2nd best defensive center besides Bill

 

[dmxfury]

A dominant player but even better human. One of the few players that could honestly be a role model

And I still say 2nd best defensive center besides Bill

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by Girl thats Jules

another point

if hakeem was so great,why didnt he win more rings?


look at the talent he had:

ralph sampson in his prime (they went to the chip and lost... they also played against the Lakers who won 5 in the 80's)
clyde drexler in his prime (definitely wasn't in his prime I take it you didnt' see the portland years, his prime ended in 93-94 and they won that year)
otis thorpe in his prime (I'll leave this one be)
barkley right as his prime ended (his prime had ended 3yrs prior he was a shell of himself by the time he was in Hou, horrible back limited mobility and chucking 3's)
pippen right as his prime ended (I'll leave this one be as well)
steve francis (Keem had damn near 20 yrs in the L by then not to mention Francis is a headcase who put himself above the team constantly)




and a lot of great role players:
robert horry (Role Player who hit big shots, nothing more)
sam cassell (At the time he was a role player his first three years... and they won two straight)
cutino mobely (Role Player)
kenny smith
mario ellie
veron maxwell



thats not amazing talent,but he definetly played with more talent than jordan,and jordan got 6 rings all while hakeem was playing. (Are you serious with this statement? You do realize that Mike played with a top 50 player and arguably the best Small Forwarrd for all but 4yrs right? And that he never won a chip without Pippen? And that Pippen was arguably more important to the Bulls defense, considering he guarded 1-5 at times? Not saying that he was as important to their offense as Money was but he was damn close.  Arguably the best rebounder of all time, and one of the best defenders of all times. Not to mention he had 6 man of the year Toni Kukocs who was a 6'10 guard. Three point champions on both separate 3 Peats. And One Of The Greatest Coaches Of All Time.  Don't get me wrong I love Money, he brought my squad from the gutter to royalty but I'm not about to sit here and let you act like he did all this %%!! by himself bro bro.)


if hakeem was so great why didnt he win more rings? (Jordan, Magic, & Bird... for 16yrs (from the time he entered the league) only 5 teams won the title. Those 3 individuals are responsible for a list of hall of famers/all stars longer than letters in your sn not receiving a title by themselves. However he did manage to take his squade there and win twice. Jordan - 6, Magic - 5, Bird - 3, Isiah, Keem -2 a piece)

i mean since he was such a force on both ends of the court. (Widely accepted/acknowledged fact, I mean he is the only player to have won MVP,DMVP, and FMVP in the same year, and truth be told he should repeated in all catagories but they gave it to Dave in which you saw the outcome of that soooooo... Yea.)

dont forget he was kind of a black hole once the ball went into the post,because he'd be doin all his moves and his teammates would be standing around. 


to me he aint that great because after the second championship he had some great teams from 95-96 til 98-99 (4 seasons) and like somebody said they were never the best team in the league.

he should have still been effective those years just because of his skill level and because of the fact that he was a big man.

old big men are usually more effective than old guards,because of their size.

hes still the most skilled big man ever though. (Only Thing that Made Sense In This Post)

See Bolded Sections.
  

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by Girl thats Jules

another point

if hakeem was so great,why didnt he win more rings?


look at the talent he had:

ralph sampson in his prime (they went to the chip and lost... they also played against the Lakers who won 5 in the 80's)
clyde drexler in his prime (definitely wasn't in his prime I take it you didnt' see the portland years, his prime ended in 93-94 and they won that year)
otis thorpe in his prime (I'll leave this one be)
barkley right as his prime ended (his prime had ended 3yrs prior he was a shell of himself by the time he was in Hou, horrible back limited mobility and chucking 3's)
pippen right as his prime ended (I'll leave this one be as well)
steve francis (Keem had damn near 20 yrs in the L by then not to mention Francis is a headcase who put himself above the team constantly)




and a lot of great role players:
robert horry (Role Player who hit big shots, nothing more)
sam cassell (At the time he was a role player his first three years... and they won two straight)
cutino mobely (Role Player)
kenny smith
mario ellie
veron maxwell



thats not amazing talent,but he definetly played with more talent than jordan,and jordan got 6 rings all while hakeem was playing. (Are you serious with this statement? You do realize that Mike played with a top 50 player and arguably the best Small Forwarrd for all but 4yrs right? And that he never won a chip without Pippen? And that Pippen was arguably more important to the Bulls defense, considering he guarded 1-5 at times? Not saying that he was as important to their offense as Money was but he was damn close.  Arguably the best rebounder of all time, and one of the best defenders of all times. Not to mention he had 6 man of the year Toni Kukocs who was a 6'10 guard. Three point champions on both separate 3 Peats. And One Of The Greatest Coaches Of All Time.  Don't get me wrong I love Money, he brought my squad from the gutter to royalty but I'm not about to sit here and let you act like he did all this %%!! by himself bro bro.)


if hakeem was so great why didnt he win more rings? (Jordan, Magic, & Bird... for 16yrs (from the time he entered the league) only 5 teams won the title. Those 3 individuals are responsible for a list of hall of famers/all stars longer than letters in your sn not receiving a title by themselves. However he did manage to take his squade there and win twice. Jordan - 6, Magic - 5, Bird - 3, Isiah, Keem -2 a piece)

i mean since he was such a force on both ends of the court. (Widely accepted/acknowledged fact, I mean he is the only player to have won MVP,DMVP, and FMVP in the same year, and truth be told he should repeated in all catagories but they gave it to Dave in which you saw the outcome of that soooooo... Yea.)

dont forget he was kind of a black hole once the ball went into the post,because he'd be doin all his moves and his teammates would be standing around. 


to me he aint that great because after the second championship he had some great teams from 95-96 til 98-99 (4 seasons) and like somebody said they were never the best team in the league.

he should have still been effective those years just because of his skill level and because of the fact that he was a big man.

old big men are usually more effective than old guards,because of their size.

hes still the most skilled big man ever though. (Only Thing that Made Sense In This Post)

See Bolded Sections.
  

 

[ravagebx]

^That's why I f with u Cake! Dudes have no clue smh.

 

[ravagebx]

^That's why I f with u Cake! Dudes have no clue smh.

 

[cubinican]

Dude was definitely one of the greatest I have no clue why he is soo overlooked

 

[cubinican]

Dude was definitely one of the greatest I have no clue why he is soo overlooked

 

[jstar25]

Hakeem is clearly a top ten NBA player of all time but the sheer amount of disrespect to Kareem is bananas in this thread.



I have to mention this point on Bill Russell. His leadership is what made him GREAT, sure he was a great defender but you have to sit back and think any center playing with as many Hall of Famers as Bill did would have a pretty easy gig. Mentally Bill was GREAT I'm talking on the MJ level but to suggest he was more complete than some other center (Kareem/Hakeem) from a skill standpoint is debatable.

 

[jstar25]

Hakeem is clearly a top ten NBA player of all time but the sheer amount of disrespect to Kareem is bananas in this thread.



I have to mention this point on Bill Russell. His leadership is what made him GREAT, sure he was a great defender but you have to sit back and think any center playing with as many Hall of Famers as Bill did would have a pretty easy gig. Mentally Bill was GREAT I'm talking on the MJ level but to suggest he was more complete than some other center (Kareem/Hakeem) from a skill standpoint is debatable.

 

[japanair21]

Why didn't Hakeem win more rings?

Why didn't Shaq ever win while he was with the Magic while Jordan wasn't around?

When Jordan retired, Hakeem reigned supreme. It was his league.

Who did Shaq have to challenge him for the rings the Lakers won back in the late 90's early 2000's?

Jason Kidd? Tim Duncan is a good opponent, the Kings??

To get to the Championships back in Hakeems day, you had to go through the Jazz, Charles Barkley, Jordan, Isiah and the Pistons, the Magic, but yeah just those to mention some.



No Jordan, a lot of teams would have won a lot more rings. You can't really play the what-if games.

 

[japanair21]

Why didn't Hakeem win more rings?

Why didn't Shaq ever win while he was with the Magic while Jordan wasn't around?

When Jordan retired, Hakeem reigned supreme. It was his league.

Who did Shaq have to challenge him for the rings the Lakers won back in the late 90's early 2000's?

Jason Kidd? Tim Duncan is a good opponent, the Kings??

To get to the Championships back in Hakeems day, you had to go through the Jazz, Charles Barkley, Jordan, Isiah and the Pistons, the Magic, but yeah just those to mention some.



No Jordan, a lot of teams would have won a lot more rings. You can't really play the what-if games.

 

[mo matik]

Kind of unrelated, but I just found this. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/n...e-on-one-?urn=nba-259999

[h2]Shaq to Hakeem in 1995: 'I want you one on one'[/h2]

Back in 1995, a young Shaquille O'Neal(notes) led the Orlando Magicto the NBA Finals. Pretty nice accomplishment for a 22-year-old. Butonce he got to the finals, things didn't work out too well as he wasdestroyed in every conceivable notion by the legendary Hakeem Olajuwon.Not only did Olajuwon go for more than 30 points in each game of thesweep, he also outscored O'Neal in every game and held the giant apoint below his season average for the whole series. Pretty dominatinglittle stretch of basketball by one of the best centers of all-time.

Hilariously — and this might be something people have known about for years but not me, so deal with it — Shaquille dropped a little note to Hakeem after the finals ended, challenging him to some one-on-one. Sports Illustrated's Andy Gray unearthed the note and it's pretty much the best thing ever.

Hysterical.It's even funnier if you imagine Hakeem Olajuwon getting this in thelocker room and laughing very loudly — albeit politely since this isOlajuwon after all — about Shaq challenging him to a one-on-one gameafter Hakeem had just destroyed him for four straight games. Coolchallenge, Shaq, and way to sell out your teammates too. Never change.

As Skeets wisely noted, this is probably how those Taco Bell challengesgot their start, so that's one of life's greatest mysteries that hasnow been solved. However, this note offers another mind-boggler — whydid Shaquille O'Neal have a typewriter immediately after an NBA Finalsgame? And if he didn't and this was prepared before the game, why didhe bring a type-written note admitting defeat to an NBA Finals game? Idemand answers.

 

[mo matik]

Kind of unrelated, but I just found this. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/n...e-on-one-?urn=nba-259999

[h2]Shaq to Hakeem in 1995: 'I want you one on one'[/h2]

Back in 1995, a young Shaquille O'Neal(notes) led the Orlando Magicto the NBA Finals. Pretty nice accomplishment for a 22-year-old. Butonce he got to the finals, things didn't work out too well as he wasdestroyed in every conceivable notion by the legendary Hakeem Olajuwon.Not only did Olajuwon go for more than 30 points in each game of thesweep, he also outscored O'Neal in every game and held the giant apoint below his season average for the whole series. Pretty dominatinglittle stretch of basketball by one of the best centers of all-time.

Hilariously — and this might be something people have known about for years but not me, so deal with it — Shaquille dropped a little note to Hakeem after the finals ended, challenging him to some one-on-one. Sports Illustrated's Andy Gray unearthed the note and it's pretty much the best thing ever.

Hysterical.It's even funnier if you imagine Hakeem Olajuwon getting this in thelocker room and laughing very loudly — albeit politely since this isOlajuwon after all — about Shaq challenging him to a one-on-one gameafter Hakeem had just destroyed him for four straight games. Coolchallenge, Shaq, and way to sell out your teammates too. Never change.

As Skeets wisely noted, this is probably how those Taco Bell challengesgot their start, so that's one of life's greatest mysteries that hasnow been solved. However, this note offers another mind-boggler — whydid Shaquille O'Neal have a typewriter immediately after an NBA Finalsgame? And if he didn't and this was prepared before the game, why didhe bring a type-written note admitting defeat to an NBA Finals game? Idemand answers.

 

[denni5themenace]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by Girl thats Jules

See Bolded Sections.
  

good post, but will fall on deaf ears. dude is a known jordan STAN. 

 

[denni5themenace]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by Girl thats Jules

See Bolded Sections.
  

good post, but will fall on deaf ears. dude is a known jordan STAN. 

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

Kind of unrelated, but I just found this. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/n...e-on-one-?urn=nba-259999

[h2]Shaq to Hakeem in 1995: 'I want you one on one'[/h2]

Back in 1995, a young Shaquille O'Neal(notes) led the Orlando Magicto the NBA Finals. Pretty nice accomplishment for a 22-year-old. Butonce he got to the finals, things didn't work out too well as he wasdestroyed in every conceivable notion by the legendary Hakeem Olajuwon.Not only did Olajuwon go for more than 30 points in each game of thesweep, he also outscored O'Neal in every game and held the giant apoint below his season average for the whole series. Pretty dominatinglittle stretch of basketball by one of the best centers of all-time.

Hilariously — and this might be something people have known about for years but not me, so deal with it — Shaquille dropped a little note to Hakeem after the finals ended, challenging him to some one-on-one. Sports Illustrated's Andy Gray unearthed the note and it's pretty much the best thing ever.

Hysterical.It's even funnier if you imagine Hakeem Olajuwon getting this in thelocker room and laughing very loudly — albeit politely since this isOlajuwon after all — about Shaq challenging him to a one-on-one gameafter Hakeem had just destroyed him for four straight games. Coolchallenge, Shaq, and way to sell out your teammates too. Never change.

As Skeets wisely noted, this is probably how those Taco Bell challengesgot their start, so that's one of life's greatest mysteries that hasnow been solved. However, this note offers another mind-boggler — whydid Shaquille O'Neal have a typewriter immediately after an NBA Finalsgame? And if he didn't and this was prepared before the game, why didhe bring a type-written note admitting defeat to an NBA Finals game? Idemand answers.

If you weren't old enough to remember THIS, then don't even talk about The Dream because you don't know spit. 

at dude laughing at Hakeem being the most "skilled" center ever.  Hakeem could do it ALL.  Yes, ALL.  Only player ever to end his career in Top 10 in steals and blocks of ALL TIME!!!!  Had the most variety of moves ANY Center has ever seen.  Did I mention he's only one of FOUR players in NBA History to EVER record a Quadruple-Double!!! 

at dude saying he's not the most complete/skilled.

Anyway, back to the quote.  I remember being SOOOO pissed that it was cancelled.  We all went to my boy's house, cause he had the illegal box and was waiting for this One on One competition.  I remember their were "undercard" matches too.  I think Kenny Anderson Vs Nick Van Exel was one.

Anyway, Dream is definitely the GOAT Center in my eyes and whoever got to see him play, knows the deal.   

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

Kind of unrelated, but I just found this. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/n...e-on-one-?urn=nba-259999

[h2]Shaq to Hakeem in 1995: 'I want you one on one'[/h2]

Back in 1995, a young Shaquille O'Neal(notes) led the Orlando Magicto the NBA Finals. Pretty nice accomplishment for a 22-year-old. Butonce he got to the finals, things didn't work out too well as he wasdestroyed in every conceivable notion by the legendary Hakeem Olajuwon.Not only did Olajuwon go for more than 30 points in each game of thesweep, he also outscored O'Neal in every game and held the giant apoint below his season average for the whole series. Pretty dominatinglittle stretch of basketball by one of the best centers of all-time.

Hilariously — and this might be something people have known about for years but not me, so deal with it — Shaquille dropped a little note to Hakeem after the finals ended, challenging him to some one-on-one. Sports Illustrated's Andy Gray unearthed the note and it's pretty much the best thing ever.

Hysterical.It's even funnier if you imagine Hakeem Olajuwon getting this in thelocker room and laughing very loudly — albeit politely since this isOlajuwon after all — about Shaq challenging him to a one-on-one gameafter Hakeem had just destroyed him for four straight games. Coolchallenge, Shaq, and way to sell out your teammates too. Never change.

As Skeets wisely noted, this is probably how those Taco Bell challengesgot their start, so that's one of life's greatest mysteries that hasnow been solved. However, this note offers another mind-boggler — whydid Shaquille O'Neal have a typewriter immediately after an NBA Finalsgame? And if he didn't and this was prepared before the game, why didhe bring a type-written note admitting defeat to an NBA Finals game? Idemand answers.

If you weren't old enough to remember THIS, then don't even talk about The Dream because you don't know spit. 

at dude laughing at Hakeem being the most "skilled" center ever.  Hakeem could do it ALL.  Yes, ALL.  Only player ever to end his career in Top 10 in steals and blocks of ALL TIME!!!!  Had the most variety of moves ANY Center has ever seen.  Did I mention he's only one of FOUR players in NBA History to EVER record a Quadruple-Double!!! 

at dude saying he's not the most complete/skilled.

Anyway, back to the quote.  I remember being SOOOO pissed that it was cancelled.  We all went to my boy's house, cause he had the illegal box and was waiting for this One on One competition.  I remember their were "undercard" matches too.  I think Kenny Anderson Vs Nick Van Exel was one.

Anyway, Dream is definitely the GOAT Center in my eyes and whoever got to see him play, knows the deal.