HBO: "Watchmen"...Season 1 Discussion...Season 2 Up in the Air... :)

[tego calderon el abayarde]

Oh nah I thought u was responding to
about where her husband had went
That’s why I was like “huh”

Nah. Just like you I'm wondering where duke went.

 

[B Sox]

Am I supposed to have an idea of what Jeremy Irons character is, or did I miss something?

 

[Mark Antony]

Old man was one of the minute men?

 

[Mark Antony]

Am I supposed to have an idea of what Jeremy Irons character is, or did I miss something?

He's Ozymandias from the initial comics. As to what he's up to now, no idea.

 

[nawghtyhare]

He's Ozymandias from the initial comics. As to what he's up to now, no idea.

its assumed
but technically
no one has said his name in a scene with him
other than master
and even in the credits jeremy irons isn't credited as ozy

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Daredevil s1.

Wildin'.

I agree that it's way too early, but this is head and shoulders above any of those other superhero shows, mainly because they're dealing with it from much more of a dramatic angle. That automatically makes it more respectable to people, for some reason.

It's more a function of the Watchmen story and how it was one of if not the first brutally honest and realistic superhero story line where the lines are a lot more blurred than your standard 'bad guy gets powers and uses them to avenge loved one's death (even though that's pretty much the premise here, too ). Watchmen was always moreso a study of American society on a wide scale. The statement it makes about the world needing a common enemy feels a lot more grand (also gives me a bigtime Leftovers vibe ). That's what made the movie so divisive, i think. It's far from your standard comic book superhero story, so your point about not even calling this a superhero show I agree with.

 

[Mark Antony]

I'm all in.

The way things all converged for this show to happen the way it is is pretty interesting. Ta-Nehisi Coates influence heavy.

Watching this looks like Lindelof did it as 1 story, no s2 plans as yet. I'm even more in now.

 

[IATT]

Wildin'.

I agree that it's way too early, but this is head and shoulders above any of those other superhero shows, mainly because they're dealing with it from much more of a dramatic angle. That automatically makes it more respectable to people, for some reason.

It's more a function of the Watchmen story and how it was one of if not the first brutally honest and realistic superhero story line where the lines are a lot more blurred than your standard 'bad guy gets powers and uses them to avenge loved one's death (even though that's pretty much the premise here, too ). Watchmen was always moreso a study of American society on a wide scale. The statement it makes about the world needing a common enemy feels a lot more grand (also gives me a bigtime Leftovers vibe ). That's what made the movie so divisive, i think. It's far from your standard comic book superhero story, so your point about not even calling this a superhero show I agree with.

this is 2 episodes..

least make sure that the guy involved with lost and Prometheus doesn’t screw this up

 

[masagipatron]

This show is two episodes in. It's still too early to say if it's better than Marvel shows like Daredevil, Legion, Punisher S1, Jessica Jones S1.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Fair enough, but I didn't have as much of a problem with Lost or Prometheus as everyone else did (I actually enjoyed both overall). On top of that, The Leftovers being his last project really has me giving him every benefit of the doubt. So take everything I say about this show with a grain of salt because I think I'm just realizing I'm a Lindelof fanboy,

 

[Mark Antony]

Fair enough, but I didn't have as much of a problem with Lost or Prometheus as everyone else did (I actually enjoyed both overall). On top of that, The Leftovers being his last project really has me giving him every benefit of the doubt. So take everything I say about this show with a grain of salt because I think I'm just realizing I'm a Lindelof fanboy,

Same, I love Leftovers plus if they got to tell the entire story of Lost without the writers strike i'm sure it would have been better. Even then it was still a good show.

 

[IATT]

lost and game of thrones both went from top 10 shows ever, then they decided to snatch the L from the jaws of victory.. just by fumbling their last couple seasons

and with Prometheus, the movie was done and written.. and then it got screwed when you know who was asked to come in

 

[masagipatron]

Ozymandias was part of the Crimebusters (Rorschach, Silk Spectre II, Comedian, Nite Owl II, Dr. Manhattan, Captain Metropolis), who were formed years after the Minutemen. In the Watchmen comics/graphic novel, Ozymandias is basically responsible for uniting humanity together against a perceived alien enemy (giant squid). It wasn't an actual alien, just a gigantic squid like creature that he created specifically to fool the world into thinking they were under attack by aliens and therefore needed to unite to avoid nuclear war.

Watchmen doesn't have any clear cut villains but Ozymandias comes the closest to being the villain. He's considered to be the world's smartest man, takes part in all sorts of weird experiments and kills anybody who might get in his way.

 

[IATT]

Ozymandias was part of the Crimebusters (Rorschach, Silk Spectre II, Comedian, Nite Owl II, Dr. Manhattan, Captain Metropolis), who were formed years after the Minutemen. In the Watchmen comics/graphic novel, Ozymandias is basically responsible for uniting humanity together against a perceived alien enemy (giant squid). It wasn't an actual alien, just a gigantic squid like creature that he created specifically to fool the world into thinking they were under attack by aliens and therefore needed to unite to avoid nuclear war.

Watchmen doesn't have any clear cut villains but Ozymandias comes the closest to being the villain. He's considered to be the world's smartest man, takes part in all sorts of weird experiments and kills anybody who might get in his way.

I think making the change for the movie made sense.. like how they changed things for ironman

I could see with the series going with that route to change it up and also make things weirder.. just hope how boy doesn’t dig himself a hole like he has done previously

 

[masagipatron]

Also, Looking Glass is very Rorschach-like. The weird mask, the way he eats with the mask on, his inquisitiveness and distrust of people around him. I hope there's more to his character than him being a hidden Kavalry member.

 

[IATT]

Also, Looking Glass is very Rorschach-like. The weird mask, the way he eats with the mask on, his inquisitiveness and distrust of people around him. I hope there's more to his character than him being a hidden Kavalry member.

seems too easy if he’s a hidden kavalry member.. also seems a lil easy that what’s his face was a klan member

obviously both are very possible, but just think we obviously got a lot to find out

 

[masagipatron]

No Kevin. They discuss Watchmen in this.

 

[Master Zik]

Wildin'.

I agree that it's way too early, but this is head and shoulders above any of those other superhero shows, mainly because they're dealing with it from much more of a dramatic angle. That automatically makes it more respectable to people, for some reason.

It's more a function of the Watchmen story and how it was one of if not the first brutally honest and realistic superhero story line where the lines are a lot more blurred than your standard 'bad guy gets powers and uses them to avenge loved one's death (even though that's pretty much the premise here, too ). Watchmen was always moreso a study of American society on a wide scale. The statement it makes about the world needing a common enemy feels a lot more grand (also gives me a bigtime Leftovers vibe ). That's what made the movie so divisive, i think. It's far from your standard comic book superhero story, so your point about not even calling this a superhero show I agree with.

So far this show doesn't seem like a superhero story at all.

It's a show based off a comic book for sure but look at what we're dealing with; the cops dealing with a white supremacist group. That main topic so far is barely related to the Watchmen comic. The police force only wear masks cuz they shook at terrorist groups targeting their families. There was one black person in the Watchmen comic iirc.

Its very good but I can't really go championing this as a superhero show cuz 3 cops wear costumes.

Lindelof is smart tomuse this comic as a vehicle to talk about what he really wants to talk about; racism, race relations, police brutality, the blue side/black side, blue wall, conspiracies, conspiracy theorists, etc.

Not saying its better cuz again their very different but I enjoyed Daredevil a lot more cuz it was a direct adaption of the Daredevil comic, thematically, action wise, crime, and drama.


I'll go even further though and say its a stretch to even credit DC with any of this. All they did was manage to keep Alan Moore's work and exploit it for profit. This isnt like any other DC show cuz Moore created entirely new universe and world built an entire alternate history.

 

[B Sox]

So far this show doesn't seem like a superhero story at all.

It's a show based off a comic book for sure but look at what we're dealing with; the cops dealing with a white supremacist group. That main topic so far is barely related to the Watchmen comic. The police force only wear masks cuz they shook at terrorist groups targeting their families. There was one black person in the Watchmen comic iirc.

Its very good but I can't really go championing this as a superhero show cuz 3 cops wear costumes.

Lindelof is smart tomuse this comic as a vehicle to talk about what he really wants to talk about; racism, race relations, police brutality, the blue side/black side, blue wall, conspiracies, conspiracy theorists, etc.

Not saying its better cuz again their very different but I enjoyed Daredevil a lot more cuz it was a direct adaption of the Daredevil comic, thematically, action wise, crime, and drama.


I'll go even further though and say its a stretch to even credit DC with any of this. All they did was manage to keep Alan Moore's work and exploit it for profit. This isnt like any other DC show cuz Moore created entirely new universe and world built an entire alternate history.

Yeah my wife hadn't watched E1 and I asked her last night if she wanted to catch up before E2 came on. She's not into comic book stuff and said she didn't want to watch a superhero show, but I convinced her that it's loosely based on a comic but about much more. She was hooked after the first episode and is now all-in. Completely agrees that it's much more than a superhero show.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Its very good but I can't really go championing this as a superhero show cuz 3 cops wear costumes.

Lindelof is smart tomuse this comic as a vehicle to talk about what he really wants to talk about; racism, race relations, police brutality, the blue side/black side, blue wall, conspiracies, conspiracy theorists, etc.

I guess for me, any story that derives from a series of comic books, I consider it a comic book movie/show. Just because it doesn't necessarily fit in the mold of what we consider a standard superhero story doesn't disqualify it for me. Same with something like V for Vendetta. Much less superhero, but certainly a comic book movie in my eyes.

I definitely agree that Watchmen is just the vehicle. What's so clever to me is that Watchmen is one of those stories that you can add a new skin to and tell a whole new story for a whole new generation. I can see it continuing to grow with much more adaptations as the years pass. For me it doesn't need to be a clear adaptation with the same themes and issues. Feel like this is striking the perfect balance for me.

And nah, I'm not even considering DC in the equation here. I feel like when we talk comics we get too wrapped up in the DC/Marvel archetype. There are so many other companies putting out stories that are so far from a dude in a cape with superpowers.

Would you consider The Walking Dead a comic book TV show?

 

[calibeebee]

So far this show doesn't seem like a superhero story at all.

It's a show based off a comic book for sure but look at what we're dealing with; the cops dealing with a white supremacist group. That main topic so far is barely related to the Watchmen comic. The police force only wear masks cuz they shook at terrorist groups targeting their families. There was one black person in the Watchmen comic iirc.

Its very good but I can't really go championing this as a superhero show cuz 3 cops wear costumes.

Lindelof is smart tomuse this comic as a vehicle to talk about what he really wants to talk about; racism, race relations, police brutality, the blue side/black side, blue wall, conspiracies, conspiracy theorists, etc.

Not saying its better cuz again their very different but I enjoyed Daredevil a lot more cuz it was a direct adaption of the Daredevil comic, thematically, action wise, crime, and drama.


I'll go even further though and say its a stretch to even credit DC with any of this. All they did was manage to keep Alan Moore's work and exploit it for profit. This isnt like any other DC show cuz Moore created entirely new universe and world built an entire alternate history.

Word. Right now this is more like the show 24 than a comic book adaptation. So far I’m not really into it, but it seems to be well made, sophisticated, dealing with her hitting subjects, and fresh takes on things. One thing I think is well done is the husband not being the alpha male type cast character. Patriarchy is kinda flipped upside down where the stay at home, helpless parent is the male role and the female is the badass protector of the family. I think that’s done in a tatesful way and doesn’t draw attention from the main characters or become a focal point at all.

Sometimes with blatant rewrites of history and alternate reality stories, some of the points that creators try and get across are shown in such an outlandish way that it becomes a laughable caricature and not taken seriously.

so yeah long rant aside, it’s too early for me to say if this is better or worse than other “superhero” shows when it’s barely about that. But it’s certainly interesting and new so far.

 

[Master Zik]

I guess for me, any story that derives from a series of comic books, I consider it a comic book movie/show. Just because it doesn't necessarily fit in the mold of what we consider a standard superhero story doesn't disqualify it for me. Same with something like V for Vendetta. Much less superhero, but certainly a comic book movie in my eyes.

I definitely agree that Watchmen is just the vehicle. What's so clever to me is that Watchmen is one of those stories that you can add a new skin to and tell a whole new story for a whole new generation. I can see it continuing to grow with much more adaptations as the years pass. For me it doesn't need to be a clear adaptation with the same themes and issues. Feel like this is striking the perfect balance for me.

And nah, I'm not even considering DC in the equation here. I feel like when we talk comics we get too wrapped up in the DC/Marvel archetype. There are so many other companies putting out stories that are so far from a dude in a cape with superpowers.

Would you consider The Walking Dead a comic book TV show?

I don't want to interchange but you're right that if it's based off a comic book its a comic book show. Stumptown on ABC is a comic book show based on an indie comicbook.

I was specifically talking about superhero shows cuz that's what Marvel primarily deals with and you can compare that to other DC superhero shows.

Watchmen is something different. This Watchmen show is waaaay different.

It'd be like somebody seriously trying to compare Avengers Endgame and The Joker movie.

The Walking Dead is definitely a comicbook tv show. For a while it was a direct adaption that added things.

 

[IATT]

not sure if v for vendetta is a good example, considering dude clearly wasn’t a regular joe blow

best example of this, is probably kickass if you subtract hit girl, who was the real superhero

I wouldn’t even use red or Nolan’s batmans

these seem like just regular cops/people who had some shtty sh happen and now hide their identities to protect their families

 

[wr]

But I think they just clones
Right????
Don’t all the dude servants look the same or am I trippin

Definitely clones.
This dude is obsessed with Dr. Manhattan.
I'm wondering if there is a tie in with Dr. Manhattan bring worshiped as a white Supremacy deity with their obsession with "tick tock" and the mythos behind time and watch making and obsession with watch parts.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

The confusion for me was in conflating Comic Book and Superhero.

I don’t think there’s any space to debate whether it’s a comic adaptation. That’s what it is by definition. Absolutely not a ‘superhero’ show, though. I look at is as more of a drama than anything else.