How accurate is this portrayal of Muslims?

[copped]

Stop feeding this idiot, just delete the thread or ban him....absolutely a lost cause.

Good to see some NT'ers with a head on their shoulders.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

These Muslims purposely showed up to react in this way.  They knew what was going to be shown.

C'mon bro, now you just sound idiotic and ignorant. Muslims purposely showed up to react this way? If that was the case, than they would've clearly attacked the man before the video was shown. There were people eagerly requesting to have the video stopped, yet the professor continued to allow the video to play. I literally heard about 5 requests to stop the video. Had the video of been stopped, there probably wouldn't of been any type of compulsion. 

It's offensive. Just because something is considered "free spech" doesn't make it right. Like another member stated here, you cannot walk through Harlem with a KKK clan shouting out racist and offensive slurs NOT expecting violence to occur. You're asking for it. I honestly don't blame the people in the video for reacting the way they did. They stood up for what they believe in.

Now. That's that.

You OP. You are literally defining bigotry. Ignorant views on a practical belief and being intolerant of those rightfully practicing the religion. On more than one occasion I've noticed you attempting to exploit the Islam religion. You're wrong for generalizing an entire 1.5 billion group of followers based on 5-6 people in this video. For that alone, you don't deserve a response from a person who acknowledges and respect all religions and faiths. Because those should not argue with fools. 

I don't think you understand.  This was a presentation.  The director of the film is not a professor.  He was showing his video as a presentation.  Everyone in the audience knew well what was in the movie.  The Muslims showed up, waited for the video to play, then used it as an excuse for their behavior.  You say they stood up for what the believe in (homosexuality is evil), Lars Vilks stood up for what he believed in (free speech).  Which is more right to you?  Isn't it the Muslims who are the bigots here?

Should this video not have an effect on what I think of Muslims?  I think that the answer is it should.  Don't you?  It's not just a few Muslims who think like this.  There are a lot of Muslims who think like this.  Should I not include them in my perceptions of Muslims?

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

These Muslims purposely showed up to react in this way.  They knew what was going to be shown.

C'mon bro, now you just sound idiotic and ignorant. Muslims purposely showed up to react this way? If that was the case, than they would've clearly attacked the man before the video was shown. There were people eagerly requesting to have the video stopped, yet the professor continued to allow the video to play. I literally heard about 5 requests to stop the video. Had the video of been stopped, there probably wouldn't of been any type of compulsion. 

It's offensive. Just because something is considered "free spech" doesn't make it right. Like another member stated here, you cannot walk through Harlem with a KKK clan shouting out racist and offensive slurs NOT expecting violence to occur. You're asking for it. I honestly don't blame the people in the video for reacting the way they did. They stood up for what they believe in.

Now. That's that.

You OP. You are literally defining bigotry. Ignorant views on a practical belief and being intolerant of those rightfully practicing the religion. On more than one occasion I've noticed you attempting to exploit the Islam religion. You're wrong for generalizing an entire 1.5 billion group of followers based on 5-6 people in this video. For that alone, you don't deserve a response from a person who acknowledges and respect all religions and faiths. Because those should not argue with fools. 

I don't think you understand.  This was a presentation.  The director of the film is not a professor.  He was showing his video as a presentation.  Everyone in the audience knew well what was in the movie.  The Muslims showed up, waited for the video to play, then used it as an excuse for their behavior.  You say they stood up for what the believe in (homosexuality is evil), Lars Vilks stood up for what he believed in (free speech).  Which is more right to you?  Isn't it the Muslims who are the bigots here?

Should this video not have an effect on what I think of Muslims?  I think that the answer is it should.  Don't you?  It's not just a few Muslims who think like this.  There are a lot of Muslims who think like this.  Should I not include them in my perceptions of Muslims?

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

Its that dude seems to really not want to respect any religion

Its that dude you have to stop being so insecure my man. Your what I like to call a perpetual pessimist. I think they're has to be something deeper to why you don't feel/want to respect any religion and why you think it's okay to attack something that from as far as I can tell hasn't harmed you.

Please flesh this out so we can understand why you don't like the idea of religion so much. If you don't then of course we'll know your trolling.

Tell me why I should respect a religion that condemns homosexuals.  Why should I respect the people who hold these beliefs?  Why do you respect a religion that condemns homosexuals?  What does that say about you?

How do you guys not have a problem with this? Why are you excusing their behavior?  WHY MUST WE RESPECT RELIGION WHEN THEY'RE WRONG?

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

Its that dude seems to really not want to respect any religion

Its that dude you have to stop being so insecure my man. Your what I like to call a perpetual pessimist. I think they're has to be something deeper to why you don't feel/want to respect any religion and why you think it's okay to attack something that from as far as I can tell hasn't harmed you.

Please flesh this out so we can understand why you don't like the idea of religion so much. If you don't then of course we'll know your trolling.

Tell me why I should respect a religion that condemns homosexuals.  Why should I respect the people who hold these beliefs?  Why do you respect a religion that condemns homosexuals?  What does that say about you?

How do you guys not have a problem with this? Why are you excusing their behavior?  WHY MUST WE RESPECT RELIGION WHEN THEY'RE WRONG?

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

It's really hard to understand a situation if you don't understand the context it's taking place in. 
The film that Vilks was presenting was clearly offensive to Muslims as it depicted the Prophet, and not only that, it depicted the Prophet seemingly in bed with another man. I understand that this was a presentation on free speech and was done to make a point, however he has taken offensive actions in the past with the cartoons he has drawn which also depict the Prophet. This, as some of you know, is unacceptable for the majority of people who practice Islam. While some may not react as strongly, you will always have a few that will. Also, this kind of reaction was clearly expected by Vilks because of the police presence that was there, and it should have been expected. Anywhere a person who has been involved in controversy like this goes to give a talk will be widely known, and will be protested by those who disagree with his actions in the past. That is also exercising freedom of speech. 

There is rampant Islamophobia all over Europe. This stems from Europeans simply not experiencing massive amounts of immigration before contemporary times. This has already been described in a post on the first page which was probably overlooked because most people on this board have the attention span of a gnat, and I can say this because I'm pretty sure 90% of you have stopped reading by now, but I digress. For those of you still reading, right wing parties use "fear of the other" to incite anger and backlash against those who aren't (insert home country here) enough. It happens all across Europe, and is a tool of populist right wing parties. 

What this leads to is the marginalization of "the other" in these societies. They are discriminated against openly, not hired for jobs, and live primarily among one another in what are basically ghettos. What Vilks is doing is trying to marginalize them further by inciting them so others within the country can see how "crazy" all the Muslims are and what a "problem" they are. It's upsetting that its working so well because of the widespread ignorance among the majority of people. 

I don't understand.  If this behavior is expected of Muslims when they react to criticisms of their religion,  how am I the only bigot here?  All of you expect them to react this way, just as I do.  How am I the only bigot here again?

If so, the only difference between you guys and me is that I say their behavior cannot be excused, justified, or accepted in any way.  It should have no place in this world.  Why are y'all giving them a pass? 

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

It's really hard to understand a situation if you don't understand the context it's taking place in. 
The film that Vilks was presenting was clearly offensive to Muslims as it depicted the Prophet, and not only that, it depicted the Prophet seemingly in bed with another man. I understand that this was a presentation on free speech and was done to make a point, however he has taken offensive actions in the past with the cartoons he has drawn which also depict the Prophet. This, as some of you know, is unacceptable for the majority of people who practice Islam. While some may not react as strongly, you will always have a few that will. Also, this kind of reaction was clearly expected by Vilks because of the police presence that was there, and it should have been expected. Anywhere a person who has been involved in controversy like this goes to give a talk will be widely known, and will be protested by those who disagree with his actions in the past. That is also exercising freedom of speech. 

There is rampant Islamophobia all over Europe. This stems from Europeans simply not experiencing massive amounts of immigration before contemporary times. This has already been described in a post on the first page which was probably overlooked because most people on this board have the attention span of a gnat, and I can say this because I'm pretty sure 90% of you have stopped reading by now, but I digress. For those of you still reading, right wing parties use "fear of the other" to incite anger and backlash against those who aren't (insert home country here) enough. It happens all across Europe, and is a tool of populist right wing parties. 

What this leads to is the marginalization of "the other" in these societies. They are discriminated against openly, not hired for jobs, and live primarily among one another in what are basically ghettos. What Vilks is doing is trying to marginalize them further by inciting them so others within the country can see how "crazy" all the Muslims are and what a "problem" they are. It's upsetting that its working so well because of the widespread ignorance among the majority of people. 

I don't understand.  If this behavior is expected of Muslims when they react to criticisms of their religion,  how am I the only bigot here?  All of you expect them to react this way, just as I do.  How am I the only bigot here again?

If so, the only difference between you guys and me is that I say their behavior cannot be excused, justified, or accepted in any way.  It should have no place in this world.  Why are y'all giving them a pass? 

 

[green rhino123]

One of my favorite Ice-T quotes:

"Freedom of speech, just watch what you say."
This applies not to the clip but to op's exercise.
On the clip, I put my 2 cents in on page 4.

As an aside:
I am Catholic/was raised Catholic. I can not stand it when I see another alleged priest rapist
on the news and no one high up in the Catholic community condemns it.
Or not as much as I feel they should. When it is brought up, it is addressed
with an "Oh, well..." then swept under the rug! The Pope should defrock all of em
I don't care how scarce new candidates are. The Pope himself I find accountable
as well. Bias as well as power clouds their judgement or affects it negatively. This phenomenon
happens in all religions.
The media, religions, etc. can make humans struggle with each other out of anger. The source
doesn't matter in terms of it being controlling. We can all think for ourselves.

 

[green rhino123]

One of my favorite Ice-T quotes:

"Freedom of speech, just watch what you say."
This applies not to the clip but to op's exercise.
On the clip, I put my 2 cents in on page 4.

As an aside:
I am Catholic/was raised Catholic. I can not stand it when I see another alleged priest rapist
on the news and no one high up in the Catholic community condemns it.
Or not as much as I feel they should. When it is brought up, it is addressed
with an "Oh, well..." then swept under the rug! The Pope should defrock all of em
I don't care how scarce new candidates are. The Pope himself I find accountable
as well. Bias as well as power clouds their judgement or affects it negatively. This phenomenon
happens in all religions.
The media, religions, etc. can make humans struggle with each other out of anger. The source
doesn't matter in terms of it being controlling. We can all think for ourselves.

 

[Trillmatic90]

It seems like upon making this thread, you had a deliberate agenda to prove a notion you already fixed in your mind, and to persuade others you simply asked a rhetorical question which you believe you have the answer to. Its important to note that the laws which many Middle Easterners follow, i.e. Shariah Law, is NOT in concilliation with the Holy Quran and is not an accurate reflection of Islam. Thus should not be followed IMO. It doesnt matter if one Muslim or every Muslim followed the Shariah Law, it would'nt be an accurate  reflection of the Holy Quran or Islam for what it really teaches. I believe that a Muslim should follow the Holy Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to the best of their abilities. Of course were all humans and we make mistakes, but having good intentions, repenting, and making an effort is important, rather than killing others upon the order of a so called "religious scholar." Heres a quote I found on a site that discusses the difference between Shariah Law and the Holy Quran:


DEAR ABE:  I’m wondering if Muslims in the West want Sharia law? It would seem that some do. --PETE
DEAR PETE: I cannot represent all Western Muslims, but I personally do not wish to live under “Sharia law

 

[Trillmatic90]

It seems like upon making this thread, you had a deliberate agenda to prove a notion you already fixed in your mind, and to persuade others you simply asked a rhetorical question which you believe you have the answer to. Its important to note that the laws which many Middle Easterners follow, i.e. Shariah Law, is NOT in concilliation with the Holy Quran and is not an accurate reflection of Islam. Thus should not be followed IMO. It doesnt matter if one Muslim or every Muslim followed the Shariah Law, it would'nt be an accurate  reflection of the Holy Quran or Islam for what it really teaches. I believe that a Muslim should follow the Holy Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to the best of their abilities. Of course were all humans and we make mistakes, but having good intentions, repenting, and making an effort is important, rather than killing others upon the order of a so called "religious scholar." Heres a quote I found on a site that discusses the difference between Shariah Law and the Holy Quran:


DEAR ABE:  I’m wondering if Muslims in the West want Sharia law? It would seem that some do. --PETE
DEAR PETE: I cannot represent all Western Muslims, but I personally do not wish to live under “Sharia law

 

[wooly willy]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

 

[wooly willy]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 
I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 
I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 
I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?


Sigh.
This argument is going nowhere because clearly you won't hear a word in support of Muslims, and most everyone else won't hear a word in support of generalizations and full-on indictment of Islam and it's entire believer base.

Don't you see the embedded generalizations? Muslims. Plural. As in the ENTIRE religion. Why don't you replace every such use of "Muslims," with "Extremists, a minuscule percentage of the billions of members of the religion worldwide," and see the obvious generalization in your words. 

As far as the outraged reaction in the original post and other such instances, you already admitted that such a reaction is the expected and norm in response to a deliberate attempt to degrade and insult what one holds sacred and dear. Keep in mind that the specific death threats heard from extremist leaders around the world are once again made by a relatively small strain of Islam. What do you mean by "very prominent?"We did agree that instances such as the OP are examples of expected reactions from a group of people, ANY group of people.  Do you have any statistics showing what percentage of Muslims subscribe to Wahhabi Islam? 

As far as the homosexuality topic goes, understand that your morality is your own. Its final perceptive is a result of many factors, such as upbringing, regional considerations, environment, etc. etc. When virtually every aspect of how your morality was formed is different from another group of people, how can you possibly judge some other peoples' beliefs. It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it. What you hold true is not what everyone else holds true. Because everyone's circumstances are different. 

Everyone in the world cannot share the same morals, values, beliefs, ideas, culture etc. It's called reality, and it what makes humans human. But everyone must share one planet, and coexist with one another, despite the differences. So we must all respect other people's beliefs and their right to have them, while at the same time maintaining what each of us individually  hold true.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 
I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?


Sigh.
This argument is going nowhere because clearly you won't hear a word in support of Muslims, and most everyone else won't hear a word in support of generalizations and full-on indictment of Islam and it's entire believer base.

Don't you see the embedded generalizations? Muslims. Plural. As in the ENTIRE religion. Why don't you replace every such use of "Muslims," with "Extremists, a minuscule percentage of the billions of members of the religion worldwide," and see the obvious generalization in your words. 

As far as the outraged reaction in the original post and other such instances, you already admitted that such a reaction is the expected and norm in response to a deliberate attempt to degrade and insult what one holds sacred and dear. Keep in mind that the specific death threats heard from extremist leaders around the world are once again made by a relatively small strain of Islam. What do you mean by "very prominent?"We did agree that instances such as the OP are examples of expected reactions from a group of people, ANY group of people.  Do you have any statistics showing what percentage of Muslims subscribe to Wahhabi Islam? 

As far as the homosexuality topic goes, understand that your morality is your own. Its final perceptive is a result of many factors, such as upbringing, regional considerations, environment, etc. etc. When virtually every aspect of how your morality was formed is different from another group of people, how can you possibly judge some other peoples' beliefs. It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it. What you hold true is not what everyone else holds true. Because everyone's circumstances are different. 

Everyone in the world cannot share the same morals, values, beliefs, ideas, culture etc. It's called reality, and it what makes humans human. But everyone must share one planet, and coexist with one another, despite the differences. So we must all respect other people's beliefs and their right to have them, while at the same time maintaining what each of us individually  hold true.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 

I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?


Sigh.
This argument is going nowhere because clearly you won't hear a word in support of Muslims, and most everyone else won't hear a word in support of generalizations and full-on indictment of Islam and it's entire believer base.

Don't you see the embedded generalizations? Muslims. Plural. As in the ENTIRE religion. Why don't you replace every such use of "Muslims," with "Extremists, a minuscule percentage of the billions of members of the religion worldwide," and see the obvious generalization in your words. 

As far as the outraged reaction in the original post and other such instances, you already admitted that such a reaction is the expected and norm in response to a deliberate attempt to degrade and insult what one holds sacred and dear. Keep in mind that the specific death threats heard from extremist leaders around the world are once again made by a relatively small strain of Islam. What do you mean by "very prominent?"We did agree that instances such as the OP are examples of expected reactions from a group of people, ANY group of people.  Do you have any statistics showing what percentage of Muslims subscribe to Wahhabi Islam? 

As far as the homosexuality topic goes, understand that your morality is your own. Its final perceptive is a result of many factors, such as upbringing, regional considerations, environment, etc. etc. When virtually every aspect of how your morality was formed is different from another group of people, how can you possibly judge some other peoples' beliefs. It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it. What you hold true is not what everyone else holds true. Because everyone's circumstances are different. 

Everyone in the world cannot share the same morals, values, beliefs, ideas, culture etc. It's called reality, and it what makes humans human. But everyone must share one planet, and coexist with one another, despite the differences. So we must all respect other people's beliefs and their right to have them, while at the same time maintaining what each of us individually  hold true.


The hell?  I've said the majority of Muslims would not react this way.    So what do you mean I won't hear a word in support of Muslims?  I've said that this behavior is not indicative of all Muslims. 

I did not agree that this behavior is expected of any kind of people,  but it is expected of Muslims.  Not just by me, but by you as well.  Since I am considered a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims when provoked, why are you and others not considered bigots?

It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it.

What the %**%???  So if another society thinks its okay to kill Blacks because it is their culture to hate Blacks, we should be okay with that?  WHAT?  SO BE IT?  What is wrong with you?

I don't give a %**% what they believe.  It's wrong.  What kind of thinking is this?  We have to accept this just because "its their beliefs?"  %**% all that.  what the hell?  We should let people do whatever the hell they want because they believe so? 

Do you guys really think this?

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 

I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?


Sigh.
This argument is going nowhere because clearly you won't hear a word in support of Muslims, and most everyone else won't hear a word in support of generalizations and full-on indictment of Islam and it's entire believer base.

Don't you see the embedded generalizations? Muslims. Plural. As in the ENTIRE religion. Why don't you replace every such use of "Muslims," with "Extremists, a minuscule percentage of the billions of members of the religion worldwide," and see the obvious generalization in your words. 

As far as the outraged reaction in the original post and other such instances, you already admitted that such a reaction is the expected and norm in response to a deliberate attempt to degrade and insult what one holds sacred and dear. Keep in mind that the specific death threats heard from extremist leaders around the world are once again made by a relatively small strain of Islam. What do you mean by "very prominent?"We did agree that instances such as the OP are examples of expected reactions from a group of people, ANY group of people.  Do you have any statistics showing what percentage of Muslims subscribe to Wahhabi Islam? 

As far as the homosexuality topic goes, understand that your morality is your own. Its final perceptive is a result of many factors, such as upbringing, regional considerations, environment, etc. etc. When virtually every aspect of how your morality was formed is different from another group of people, how can you possibly judge some other peoples' beliefs. It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it. What you hold true is not what everyone else holds true. Because everyone's circumstances are different. 

Everyone in the world cannot share the same morals, values, beliefs, ideas, culture etc. It's called reality, and it what makes humans human. But everyone must share one planet, and coexist with one another, despite the differences. So we must all respect other people's beliefs and their right to have them, while at the same time maintaining what each of us individually  hold true.


The hell?  I've said the majority of Muslims would not react this way.    So what do you mean I won't hear a word in support of Muslims?  I've said that this behavior is not indicative of all Muslims. 

I did not agree that this behavior is expected of any kind of people,  but it is expected of Muslims.  Not just by me, but by you as well.  Since I am considered a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims when provoked, why are you and others not considered bigots?

It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it.

What the %**%???  So if another society thinks its okay to kill Blacks because it is their culture to hate Blacks, we should be okay with that?  WHAT?  SO BE IT?  What is wrong with you?

I don't give a %**% what they believe.  It's wrong.  What kind of thinking is this?  We have to accept this just because "its their beliefs?"  %**% all that.  what the hell?  We should let people do whatever the hell they want because they believe so? 

Do you guys really think this?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it.

What the %**%???  So if another society thinks its okay to kill Blacks because it is their culture to hate Blacks, we should be okay with that?  WHAT?  SO BE IT?  What is wrong with you?

I don't give a %**% what they believe.  It's wrong.  What kind of thinking is this?  We have to accept this just because "its their beliefs?"  %**% all that.  what the hell?  We should let people do whatever the hell they want because they believe so? 

Do you guys really think this?





   THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is why I think religion is a highly immoral institution. Unwavering allegiance even when your ideology is clearly detrimental to humanity and causes obvious harm to your fellow man. $$%%ING disgusting

 

[brownsuga1]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 

I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?


Sigh.
This argument is going nowhere because clearly you won't hear a word in support of Muslims, and most everyone else won't hear a word in support of generalizations and full-on indictment of Islam and it's entire believer base.

Don't you see the embedded generalizations? Muslims. Plural. As in the ENTIRE religion. Why don't you replace every such use of "Muslims," with "Extremists, a minuscule percentage of the billions of members of the religion worldwide," and see the obvious generalization in your words. 

As far as the outraged reaction in the original post and other such instances, you already admitted that such a reaction is the expected and norm in response to a deliberate attempt to degrade and insult what one holds sacred and dear. Keep in mind that the specific death threats heard from extremist leaders around the world are once again made by a relatively small strain of Islam. What do you mean by "very prominent?"We did agree that instances such as the OP are examples of expected reactions from a group of people, ANY group of people.  Do you have any statistics showing what percentage of Muslims subscribe to Wahhabi Islam? 

As far as the homosexuality topic goes, understand that your morality is your own. Its final perceptive is a result of many factors, such as upbringing, regional considerations, environment, etc. etc. When virtually every aspect of how your morality was formed is different from another group of people, how can you possibly judge some other peoples' beliefs. It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it. What you hold true is not what everyone else holds true. Because everyone's circumstances are different. 

Everyone in the world cannot share the same morals, values, beliefs, ideas, culture etc. It's called reality, and it what makes humans human. But everyone must share one planet, and coexist with one another, despite the differences. So we must all respect other people's beliefs and their right to have them, while at the same time maintaining what each of us individually  hold true.


Yo man, I was born into a Muslim family, a very liberal one. I'm agnostic now and I hold no grudges against Islam but what you said about homosexuals is uhh.....The belief that they are not allowed in society and are lesser citizens is plain out WRONG. Islam and other religions truly have beautiful things within them, however, they too have ideas that are wrong. To think that ANYONE is a lesser citizen based on race, gender, sexual orientation is just WRONG. 
We can't get into extreme view points here. You can't fully agree with what the professor did and you can't in my opinion, fully agree with everything Islam teaches. I believe OP should be more open minded about Muslims. Not every Muslim is what you see on TV. And for those who are Muslim, I feel like there are beliefs and teachings that are outdated. This is just my opinion. I feel like the only you could ever agree is if you take middle ground and don't sway extremely to one side. 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it.

What the %**%???  So if another society thinks its okay to kill Blacks because it is their culture to hate Blacks, we should be okay with that?  WHAT?  SO BE IT?  What is wrong with you?

I don't give a %**% what they believe.  It's wrong.  What kind of thinking is this?  We have to accept this just because "its their beliefs?"  %**% all that.  what the hell?  We should let people do whatever the hell they want because they believe so? 

Do you guys really think this?





   THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is why I think religion is a highly immoral institution. Unwavering allegiance even when your ideology is clearly detrimental to humanity and causes obvious harm to your fellow man. $$%%ING disgusting

 

[brownsuga1]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Wooly Willy wrote:

Who's making up the "us vs. them" scenarios?  In this case, who is making up the "us vs. homosexuals"?  It's religion.  So yes, a world without religion would be better off.  I'm not saying that religion is the root of all violence.  But yes, the world would be less violent without religion.


How would the average Muslim react to a video like this?  That's what I'm mainly concerned about.  Is it even a sin to depict Muhammad as a homosexual?  Going by your verses, I would not expect this kind of reaction from the audience.

And what the hell is a militant atheist?  Why should I respect a person's religion/beliefs when they're wrong? (from hinduism thread

)  Why does it deserve my respect?

I asked you to think critically and it looks like you didn't. Tsk tsk. Do you really believe that there will be any less violence in the world without religion? Let's hypothetically assume we get rid of all religion, then what? Are we going to shed political differences, ethnic differences, racial differences, national differences too? Like someone else mentioned in this thread, you're way too naive if you believe that a religion free world will automatically translate into a world of daisies, unicorns and rainbows.

Your second question doesn't make much sense. I can tell you about how I would react to this situation or how I feel I would have reacted but by no means can I speak for 1.6 billion people (a number that has flown over your head a few times, I think). When judging whether a religious doctrine is violent or not, we don't need to look at the sources of the religion, not the actions of individuals from that group. I had my bike stolen on campus once and the dude who stole it got caught up. Apparently, he was stealing bikes and stashing em in his dorm room. When I saw the kid responsible, I immediately recognized him because he was in the "Free Thinkers Society" Atheist club at my school and he came over to the Muslim Student Association table a few times to have discussions. I can't assume that his beliefs (or lack of) were responsible for his actions can I? To answer the 2nd part of this question, it is a sin to even depict any image of the Prophet Muhammad. Of course there have been images produced of him by non-Muslims in the 1400 years of Islam and not every single one caused an outrage. This, however, was straight disrespectful and not in good taste. You have to understand that as Muslims, this is a man that we honor and respect deeply so to make disgusting images of him like that dude in the video is going to be taken as disrespectful.

You asked why you should you have to respect someone's religious beliefs multiple times in this thread and its been answered just as many but let me give it a shot to see if it will stick this time. It's called human decency. No one is saying you have to agree or like anyone else's religion, political ideology, sexual preference, race, etc but its part of human decency to approach these topics that are so close to each one of us (even you) with a degree of wisdom and respect to avoid confrontation with others. If I see a mother with a baby, I won't say "ma'am you have an ugly child" and expect to have a civil conversation would I? Argue all you want against Islam, Christianity, religion in general, why the Lakers will 3-peat it won't offend anyone if you go about it in a respectful manner. However, when you're essentially dismissing a person as a "mental patient" (quoted from that Atheist thread) for their belief in a god and continuously insult others, you're not doing anything except invoking that other person's anger. Whether that anger is justified or not is a different discussion but we all know how people are when they feel disrespected and insulted. So unless you've "evolved" so much or feel so "enlightened" that you need to do away with common human courtesy, then you should have respect for the person who holds the belief even if you despise that belief.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that religion is not the only cause of all violence.  But it is a cause of some of the violence nonetheless.  So how would a world without religion not be better off?  You can't possibly think that it would be the same or worse right?

I've already acknowledged that this is not at all a representation of all Muslims.  Here's what I posted on the top of page 2.

I understand that this is not an representation of all Muslims, but these Muslims don't "look" like extremists.  They look like normal people who live in a western country.  I didn't expect them to act like this.

Is there a basis for this kind of behavior in Islamic texts though?  If yes, shouldn't we have a problem with it? 

I've been asking if this video and the many other Muslim reactions just like it around the world to Lars Vilks videos should affect my view of Muslims.

You're acting as if stealing is a tenant of Atheism or known to be done by atheists when anti-homosexuality and homophobia is in fact a part of the Muslim culture.  This video is just an example of one of the many violent reactions that many Muslims have when they're offended.  Isn't this how Muslims have reacted when Muhammad is depicted in an image by westerners?  with violence and death threats?  WHY IS THIS REACTION ACCEPTABLE TO ALL OF YOU?

The discussion isn't if Muslims have a right to be outraged.  I've already agreed with all of you that this kind of behavior is to be expected already.  But somehow I am a bigot for expecting this kind of behavior from Muslims, but all of you are not? 

Should this video have an effect on my perceptions of Muslims?  No one has answered this question for me in this thread.  It's not a stretch or distortion by any means.  Agreed that the majority of 1.6 billion Muslims do not behave this way, but you guys are suggesting that I ignore Muslims like these when they are very prominent. 

Why should I respect ANYONE that believes homosexuals should die?  Why should I respect any religion that teaches that?  Why do you?  In case y'all thinking I'm a homosexual and this is my way of raging out, I'm not.  With your ugly baby analogy, that was an unprovoked insult.  When Muslims respond to criticism with violence,  why should I respect anyone like that?  Why should I treat that person with any kind of human decency at all?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, are all things that you cannot change.  Of course we have to to respect that (religion should take note).  Political ideology is attacked all the time, and rightly so.  It is something that should be thought out and reasoned. Somehow we have all understood that religion cannot be criticized when all it is is just a system of beliefs just like political ideology.    Why?  Just because!

What I'm getting from you is that their reaction was justified because they felt disrespected by this video.  Am I correct in saying that?


Sigh.
This argument is going nowhere because clearly you won't hear a word in support of Muslims, and most everyone else won't hear a word in support of generalizations and full-on indictment of Islam and it's entire believer base.

Don't you see the embedded generalizations? Muslims. Plural. As in the ENTIRE religion. Why don't you replace every such use of "Muslims," with "Extremists, a minuscule percentage of the billions of members of the religion worldwide," and see the obvious generalization in your words. 

As far as the outraged reaction in the original post and other such instances, you already admitted that such a reaction is the expected and norm in response to a deliberate attempt to degrade and insult what one holds sacred and dear. Keep in mind that the specific death threats heard from extremist leaders around the world are once again made by a relatively small strain of Islam. What do you mean by "very prominent?"We did agree that instances such as the OP are examples of expected reactions from a group of people, ANY group of people.  Do you have any statistics showing what percentage of Muslims subscribe to Wahhabi Islam? 

As far as the homosexuality topic goes, understand that your morality is your own. Its final perceptive is a result of many factors, such as upbringing, regional considerations, environment, etc. etc. When virtually every aspect of how your morality was formed is different from another group of people, how can you possibly judge some other peoples' beliefs. It is what they believe, and if they believe homosexuality is unnatural and perverse, so be it. What you hold true is not what everyone else holds true. Because everyone's circumstances are different. 

Everyone in the world cannot share the same morals, values, beliefs, ideas, culture etc. It's called reality, and it what makes humans human. But everyone must share one planet, and coexist with one another, despite the differences. So we must all respect other people's beliefs and their right to have them, while at the same time maintaining what each of us individually  hold true.


Yo man, I was born into a Muslim family, a very liberal one. I'm agnostic now and I hold no grudges against Islam but what you said about homosexuals is uhh.....The belief that they are not allowed in society and are lesser citizens is plain out WRONG. Islam and other religions truly have beautiful things within them, however, they too have ideas that are wrong. To think that ANYONE is a lesser citizen based on race, gender, sexual orientation is just WRONG. 
We can't get into extreme view points here. You can't fully agree with what the professor did and you can't in my opinion, fully agree with everything Islam teaches. I believe OP should be more open minded about Muslims. Not every Muslim is what you see on TV. And for those who are Muslim, I feel like there are beliefs and teachings that are outdated. This is just my opinion. I feel like the only you could ever agree is if you take middle ground and don't sway extremely to one side. 

 

[2lipslegit]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

These Muslims purposely showed up to react in this way.  They knew what was going to be shown.

C'mon bro, now you just sound idiotic and ignorant. Muslims purposely showed up to react this way? If that was the case, than they would've clearly attacked the man before the video was shown. There were people eagerly requesting to have the video stopped, yet the professor continued to allow the video to play. I literally heard about 5 requests to stop the video. Had the video of been stopped, there probably wouldn't of been any type of compulsion. 

It's offensive. Just because something is considered "free spech" doesn't make it right. Like another member stated here, you cannot walk through Harlem with a KKK clan shouting out racist and offensive slurs NOT expecting violence to occur. You're asking for it. I honestly don't blame the people in the video for reacting the way they did. They stood up for what they believe in.

Now. That's that.

You OP. You are literally defining bigotry. Ignorant views on a practical belief and being intolerant of those rightfully practicing the religion. On more than one occasion I've noticed you attempting to exploit the Islam religion. You're wrong for generalizing an entire 1.5 billion group of followers based on 5-6 people in this video. For that alone, you don't deserve a response from a person who acknowledges and respect all religions and faiths. Because those should not argue with fools. 

I don't think you understand.  This was a presentation.  The director of the film is not a professor.  He was showing his video as a presentation.  Everyone in the audience knew well what was in the movie.  The Muslims showed up, waited for the video to play, then used it as an excuse for their behavior.  You say they stood up for what the believe in (homosexuality is evil), Lars Vilks stood up for what he believed in (free speech).  Which is more right to you?  Isn't it the Muslims who are the bigots here?

Should this video not have an effect on what I think of Muslims?  I think that the answer is it should.  Don't you?  It's not just a few Muslims who think like this.  There are a lot of Muslims who think like this.  Should I not include them in my perceptions of Muslims?

Clearly you have no understanding of who Lars Vilks even is. You state he is not a professor right here, and he is. All my explanations of context have been ignored almost entirely, except for people who are actually in agreement with me. I dont plan on posting in this thread anymore, although I might read through the repsonses just to see what kind of stupid %$+# argument you come up with next.

You should have been on the debate team in high school. Not because youd be any good, but because youd realize how you are constantly employing fallacies of logic and basically suck at debating. If it gets me banned, so be it, but you are truly ignorant and the perfect example of bigotry. Im going to go out on a limb and guess that youre probably a very prejudiced individual too, wonder what my chances are of being right on that one?

 

[2lipslegit]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

These Muslims purposely showed up to react in this way.  They knew what was going to be shown.

C'mon bro, now you just sound idiotic and ignorant. Muslims purposely showed up to react this way? If that was the case, than they would've clearly attacked the man before the video was shown. There were people eagerly requesting to have the video stopped, yet the professor continued to allow the video to play. I literally heard about 5 requests to stop the video. Had the video of been stopped, there probably wouldn't of been any type of compulsion. 

It's offensive. Just because something is considered "free spech" doesn't make it right. Like another member stated here, you cannot walk through Harlem with a KKK clan shouting out racist and offensive slurs NOT expecting violence to occur. You're asking for it. I honestly don't blame the people in the video for reacting the way they did. They stood up for what they believe in.

Now. That's that.

You OP. You are literally defining bigotry. Ignorant views on a practical belief and being intolerant of those rightfully practicing the religion. On more than one occasion I've noticed you attempting to exploit the Islam religion. You're wrong for generalizing an entire 1.5 billion group of followers based on 5-6 people in this video. For that alone, you don't deserve a response from a person who acknowledges and respect all religions and faiths. Because those should not argue with fools. 

I don't think you understand.  This was a presentation.  The director of the film is not a professor.  He was showing his video as a presentation.  Everyone in the audience knew well what was in the movie.  The Muslims showed up, waited for the video to play, then used it as an excuse for their behavior.  You say they stood up for what the believe in (homosexuality is evil), Lars Vilks stood up for what he believed in (free speech).  Which is more right to you?  Isn't it the Muslims who are the bigots here?

Should this video not have an effect on what I think of Muslims?  I think that the answer is it should.  Don't you?  It's not just a few Muslims who think like this.  There are a lot of Muslims who think like this.  Should I not include them in my perceptions of Muslims?

Clearly you have no understanding of who Lars Vilks even is. You state he is not a professor right here, and he is. All my explanations of context have been ignored almost entirely, except for people who are actually in agreement with me. I dont plan on posting in this thread anymore, although I might read through the repsonses just to see what kind of stupid %$+# argument you come up with next.

You should have been on the debate team in high school. Not because youd be any good, but because youd realize how you are constantly employing fallacies of logic and basically suck at debating. If it gets me banned, so be it, but you are truly ignorant and the perfect example of bigotry. Im going to go out on a limb and guess that youre probably a very prejudiced individual too, wonder what my chances are of being right on that one?