How accurate is this portrayal of Muslims?

[th1nk]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

unless this was incorrectly translated...

He doesnt mean it as in killing
  

Did he want to take the cop out on a date?

How did he mean it then since I don't know a lick of swedish?

Is "taking you out" even a death threat?... This could be their equivalent of "knocking out" or "punching out"

And from the person who speaks the language and therefore understands the true meaning of what they are saying (the translation could be slightly off), the death threat was not even a real death threat...

OP, you have the comprehension of a ******ed 3rd grader, you are making some gigantic leaps of faith with your analysis. 

 

[th1nk]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

unless this was incorrectly translated...

He doesnt mean it as in killing
  

Did he want to take the cop out on a date?

How did he mean it then since I don't know a lick of swedish?

Is "taking you out" even a death threat?... This could be their equivalent of "knocking out" or "punching out"

And from the person who speaks the language and therefore understands the true meaning of what they are saying (the translation could be slightly off), the death threat was not even a real death threat...

OP, you have the comprehension of a ******ed 3rd grader, you are making some gigantic leaps of faith with your analysis. 

 

[its that dude]

2lips, you were right. it was not a death threat.

but here's a google search for all the death threats that he has received though.

http://www.google.com/#sc...bx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

 

[its that dude]

2lips, you were right. it was not a death threat.

but here's a google search for all the death threats that he has received though.

http://www.google.com/#sc...bx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

It's just not just justified anger (not justified imo),  the crowd was making death threats and retaliating with violence.  It might seem like I'm targeting Islam as the only violent religion, but that's just because I specifically made this post about Muslims and Islam.  I could've made it about abortion doctor killers.  I agree with you that many religions are violent

I'm not even taking it to extremist levels terrorism.  This is a seemingly moderate group of Muslims reacting to this video with violence and death threats.  It doesn't seem like it's only a few extremists...

It is justified because the director took something that is sacred and to them (their religion), and associated it with homosexuality and pornography (both widely considered evil by all manner of religion). Combine that offense with the mob mentality, and of course there is going to be an outraged reaction.
What if that director went to Harlem, and showed a film in support of the KKK. What do you think will happen? Or what if you went to some real, practicing Christians, and showed them a similar film as the one in the video, except in association with Christianity? I could go on and on.

@ you not targeting Islam, when it's clear that you are. It's okay though, bigotry is not an incurable condition....

Oh, and "aggressive language" in every scripture must be taken in context...stop generalizing.

If Christians reacted the same way, I'd condemn reactions as well.  It's no different to me.  The KKK has committed horrible crimes against minorities.  I would not support anyone that supports the KKK in any way.  Would I support his (the director's) death? No.

What have homosexuals done to Muslims to elicit this kind of response though?

Then, like I said earlier, youre attributing their actions only to them and not their Christian beliefs. You must follow the same principle here. You cant attribute the violent reaction of some muslims to their religion. Especially when there were some muslims there who were defending the police, saying they were only doing their jobs.
  

No no no,  I very much understand Christian's views on homosexuals.  I am following the same principle here.  The Muslims that defended the police should've have defended Lars Vilks as well.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

It's just not just justified anger (not justified imo),  the crowd was making death threats and retaliating with violence.  It might seem like I'm targeting Islam as the only violent religion, but that's just because I specifically made this post about Muslims and Islam.  I could've made it about abortion doctor killers.  I agree with you that many religions are violent

I'm not even taking it to extremist levels terrorism.  This is a seemingly moderate group of Muslims reacting to this video with violence and death threats.  It doesn't seem like it's only a few extremists...

It is justified because the director took something that is sacred and to them (their religion), and associated it with homosexuality and pornography (both widely considered evil by all manner of religion). Combine that offense with the mob mentality, and of course there is going to be an outraged reaction.
What if that director went to Harlem, and showed a film in support of the KKK. What do you think will happen? Or what if you went to some real, practicing Christians, and showed them a similar film as the one in the video, except in association with Christianity? I could go on and on.

@ you not targeting Islam, when it's clear that you are. It's okay though, bigotry is not an incurable condition....

Oh, and "aggressive language" in every scripture must be taken in context...stop generalizing.

If Christians reacted the same way, I'd condemn reactions as well.  It's no different to me.  The KKK has committed horrible crimes against minorities.  I would not support anyone that supports the KKK in any way.  Would I support his (the director's) death? No.

What have homosexuals done to Muslims to elicit this kind of response though?

Then, like I said earlier, youre attributing their actions only to them and not their Christian beliefs. You must follow the same principle here. You cant attribute the violent reaction of some muslims to their religion. Especially when there were some muslims there who were defending the police, saying they were only doing their jobs.
  

No no no,  I very much understand Christian's views on homosexuals.  I am following the same principle here.  The Muslims that defended the police should've have defended Lars Vilks as well.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

It's just not just justified anger (not justified imo),  the crowd was making death threats and retaliating with violence.  It might seem like I'm targeting Islam as the only violent religion, but that's just because I specifically made this post about Muslims and Islam.  I could've made it about abortion doctor killers.  I agree with you that many religions are violent

I'm not even taking it to extremist levels terrorism.  This is a seemingly moderate group of Muslims reacting to this video with violence and death threats.  It doesn't seem like it's only a few extremists...

It is justified because the director took something that is sacred and to them (their religion), and associated it with homosexuality and pornography (both widely considered evil by all manner of religion). Combine that offense with the mob mentality, and of course there is going to be an outraged reaction.
What if that director went to Harlem, and showed a film in support of the KKK. What do you think will happen? Or what if you went to some real, practicing Christians, and showed them a similar film as the one in the video, except in association with Christianity? I could go on and on.

@ you not targeting Islam, when it's clear that you are. It's okay though, bigotry is not an incurable condition....

Oh, and "aggressive language" in every scripture must be taken in context...stop generalizing.

If Christians reacted the same way, I'd condemn reactions as well.  It's no different to me.  The KKK has committed horrible crimes against minorities.  I would not support anyone that supports the KKK in any way.  Would I support his (the director's) death? No.

What have homosexuals done to Muslims to elicit this kind of response though?

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

It's just not just justified anger (not justified imo),  the crowd was making death threats and retaliating with violence.  It might seem like I'm targeting Islam as the only violent religion, but that's just because I specifically made this post about Muslims and Islam.  I could've made it about abortion doctor killers.  I agree with you that many religions are violent

I'm not even taking it to extremist levels terrorism.  This is a seemingly moderate group of Muslims reacting to this video with violence and death threats.  It doesn't seem like it's only a few extremists...

It is justified because the director took something that is sacred and to them (their religion), and associated it with homosexuality and pornography (both widely considered evil by all manner of religion). Combine that offense with the mob mentality, and of course there is going to be an outraged reaction.
What if that director went to Harlem, and showed a film in support of the KKK. What do you think will happen? Or what if you went to some real, practicing Christians, and showed them a similar film as the one in the video, except in association with Christianity? I could go on and on.

@ you not targeting Islam, when it's clear that you are. It's okay though, bigotry is not an incurable condition....

Oh, and "aggressive language" in every scripture must be taken in context...stop generalizing.

If Christians reacted the same way, I'd condemn reactions as well.  It's no different to me.  The KKK has committed horrible crimes against minorities.  I would not support anyone that supports the KKK in any way.  Would I support his (the director's) death? No.

What have homosexuals done to Muslims to elicit this kind of response though?

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

Why is homosexuality evil?  Shouldn't we challenge that kind of teaching?

Yes it would lead to outrage.  It is to be expected.  No argument here.

What I'm saying that there is no place for this kind of thinking and mindset anywhere in the world.  They're actions are wrong, but expectedly so.  There shouldn't be any of this in the world, not just from Muslims/Islam, but from all religions.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

Why is homosexuality evil?  Shouldn't we challenge that kind of teaching?

Yes it would lead to outrage.  It is to be expected.  No argument here.

What I'm saying that there is no place for this kind of thinking and mindset anywhere in the world.  They're actions are wrong, but expectedly so.  There shouldn't be any of this in the world, not just from Muslims/Islam, but from all religions.

 

[2lipslegit]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

2lips, you were right. it was not a death threat.

but here's a google search for all the death threats that he has received though.

http://www.google.com/#sc...bx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

And like I said earlier, he should have expected that. He worked for those death threats. You might be missing the context to understand this. In scandinavia its perfectly accpetable to insult anyone who isnt scandinavian. People go out of their way to do it and thats what Lars Vilks does. Hes a real life troll. I posted about this sad situation on the first page.

Its disgusting to see how racism is widely accepted in Scandinavia and he's playing off that in hopes that only the Muslims and no Swedes or other Scandinavians will call him out. Then he can further use that to prove how the Muslim immigrants are violent savages with no respect for western societies and their values when hes indeed the one demonstrating such disregard for western thought by endorsing and engaging in blatant racism.

Not to cut this short, but Im going to bed, Ill let the other cats carry on this discussion and check up on it tomorrow.

  

 

[2lipslegit]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

2lips, you were right. it was not a death threat.

but here's a google search for all the death threats that he has received though.

http://www.google.com/#sc...bx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

And like I said earlier, he should have expected that. He worked for those death threats. You might be missing the context to understand this. In scandinavia its perfectly accpetable to insult anyone who isnt scandinavian. People go out of their way to do it and thats what Lars Vilks does. Hes a real life troll. I posted about this sad situation on the first page.

Its disgusting to see how racism is widely accepted in Scandinavia and he's playing off that in hopes that only the Muslims and no Swedes or other Scandinavians will call him out. Then he can further use that to prove how the Muslim immigrants are violent savages with no respect for western societies and their values when hes indeed the one demonstrating such disregard for western thought by endorsing and engaging in blatant racism.

Not to cut this short, but Im going to bed, Ill let the other cats carry on this discussion and check up on it tomorrow.

  

 

[2lipslegit]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

Why is homosexuality evil?  Shouldn't we challenge that kind of teaching?

Yes it would lead to outrage.  It is to be expected.  No argument here.

What I'm saying that there is no place for this kind of thinking and mindset anywhere in the world.  They're actions are wrong, but expectedly so.  There shouldn't be any of this in the world, not just from Muslims/Islam, but from all religions.

Just gotta resond to this before peacing out.

There is no space for hating homosexuals sure, but Lars is provoking the unacceptable reaction by engaging in something else there is no space for, discrimination and openly insulting other religions. These Muslims didnt show up to kill gays, just as many devout Catholics dont walk around looking for gays to hurt. If they want to oppose homosexuality, that is their freedom of choice. As long as they are not preventing people from denouncing Islam to be gay then I cant even really argue against it, although I dont agree with it.

Yes, gays are killed in Saudi Arabia, but gays are still killed in the US just for being gay like minorities are killed in the US just because of their skin color to this day.
  

 

[2lipslegit]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

Why is homosexuality evil?  Shouldn't we challenge that kind of teaching?

Yes it would lead to outrage.  It is to be expected.  No argument here.

What I'm saying that there is no place for this kind of thinking and mindset anywhere in the world.  They're actions are wrong, but expectedly so.  There shouldn't be any of this in the world, not just from Muslims/Islam, but from all religions.

Just gotta resond to this before peacing out.

There is no space for hating homosexuals sure, but Lars is provoking the unacceptable reaction by engaging in something else there is no space for, discrimination and openly insulting other religions. These Muslims didnt show up to kill gays, just as many devout Catholics dont walk around looking for gays to hurt. If they want to oppose homosexuality, that is their freedom of choice. As long as they are not preventing people from denouncing Islam to be gay then I cant even really argue against it, although I dont agree with it.

Yes, gays are killed in Saudi Arabia, but gays are still killed in the US just for being gay like minorities are killed in the US just because of their skin color to this day.
  

 

[copped]

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

2lips, you were right. it was not a death threat.

but here's a google search for all the death threats that he has received though.

http://www.google.com/#sc...bx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

And like I said earlier, he should have expected that. He worked for those death threats. You might be missing the context to understand this. In scandinavia its perfectly accpetable to insult anyone who isnt scandinavian. People go out of their way to do it and thats what Lars Vilks does. Hes a real life troll. I posted about this sad situation on the first page.

Its disgusting to see how racism is widely accepted in Scandinavia and he's playing off that in hopes that only the Muslims and no Swedes or other Scandinavians will call him out. Then he can further use that to prove how the Muslim immigrants are violent savages with no respect for western societies and their values when hes indeed the one demonstrating such disregard for western thought by endorsing and engaging in blatant racism.

Not to cut this short, but Im going to bed, Ill let the other cats carry on this discussion and check up on it tomorrow.

  

Thanks my dude....

 

[copped]

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

2lips, you were right. it was not a death threat.

but here's a google search for all the death threats that he has received though.

http://www.google.com/#sc...bx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec

And like I said earlier, he should have expected that. He worked for those death threats. You might be missing the context to understand this. In scandinavia its perfectly accpetable to insult anyone who isnt scandinavian. People go out of their way to do it and thats what Lars Vilks does. Hes a real life troll. I posted about this sad situation on the first page.

Its disgusting to see how racism is widely accepted in Scandinavia and he's playing off that in hopes that only the Muslims and no Swedes or other Scandinavians will call him out. Then he can further use that to prove how the Muslim immigrants are violent savages with no respect for western societies and their values when hes indeed the one demonstrating such disregard for western thought by endorsing and engaging in blatant racism.

Not to cut this short, but Im going to bed, Ill let the other cats carry on this discussion and check up on it tomorrow.

  

Thanks my dude....

 

[cwrite78]

did your mother not hug you enough as a child that you need to come in here and seek attention?

we get it, you think he's trolling. enough with the pictures already.

 

[cwrite78]

did your mother not hug you enough as a child that you need to come in here and seek attention?

we get it, you think he's trolling. enough with the pictures already.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

Why is homosexuality evil?  Shouldn't we challenge that kind of teaching?

Yes it would lead to outrage.  It is to be expected.  No argument here.

What I'm saying that there is no place for this kind of thinking and mindset anywhere in the world.  They're actions are wrong, but expectedly so.  There shouldn't be any of this in the world, not just from Muslims/Islam, but from all religions.

You sure what you were originally saying wasn't "look at these savage Muslims going crazy! They're so barbaric!"

So basically, at the end of the day, your final argument is that there should be a worldwide Utopian society. Okay, love the sentiment. Now acclimate yourself with cold, hard reality, and get a clue.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Nothing, but as I already stated, homosexuality is considered by all the main monotheistic faiths as evil. And to associate an act of evil with one of the religions that expressly forbids and decries it, would obviously lead to outrage. What did the fool think would happen? That they would take such an association in stride? C'mon now, you don't even know what you're arguing anymore, just let it go.

Why is homosexuality evil?  Shouldn't we challenge that kind of teaching?

Yes it would lead to outrage.  It is to be expected.  No argument here.

What I'm saying that there is no place for this kind of thinking and mindset anywhere in the world.  They're actions are wrong, but expectedly so.  There shouldn't be any of this in the world, not just from Muslims/Islam, but from all religions.

You sure what you were originally saying wasn't "look at these savage Muslims going crazy! They're so barbaric!"

So basically, at the end of the day, your final argument is that there should be a worldwide Utopian society. Okay, love the sentiment. Now acclimate yourself with cold, hard reality, and get a clue.

 

[copped]

Originally Posted by CWrite78

did your mother not hug you enough as a child that you need to come in here and seek attention?

we get it, you think he's trolling. enough with the pictures already.

 

[copped]

Originally Posted by CWrite78

did your mother not hug you enough as a child that you need to come in here and seek attention?

we get it, you think he's trolling. enough with the pictures already.

 

[wooly willy]

Just read through the whole thread and I wanna say my thoughts (I'm an African American Muslim born and raised in the US)

Itsthatdude, I seen you post in a few religion threads and that Hinduism thread where you made some unpopular comments (

) and I understand the message you're trying to put across. You, lobotomybeats and Anton are the vocal Atheists on this board and I respect that completely but I've been noticing you and lobotomybeats feel the need to extra hard and militant for no reason. Yes, I understand the purpose of this post is to point out the "illogical" aspects of religion so we can all be "enlightened" like you are but the only thing you pointed out with this video the weak nature of human beings. Regardless of whether we are talking about religious positions, political ideologies or favorite football teams, it is in our nature to become defensive when the "others" attack "us". Think of those riots that happen after soccer games in other parts of the world. As a matter of fact, I'm from the Bay and I know this guy who went to a Raiders/Chargers game a few years back wearing a Chargers jersey and got attacked by Raiders fans. I know you truly believe that a world without religion will make us less violent, less prone to wars, etc but take a second to think about it. Is religion really the problem here or is it in human nature to carve out "us vs them" scenarios? I'll anticipate your response here and assume you will argue that religion is tool used to perpetuate violence and we should just get rid of it to at least stop one common excuse for violence. Once again, do you honestly believe that a religion-free world will give human beings any less of an excuse to kill one another, to commit violent acts against each other or to oppress one another. I don't even need to bring up the examples of the "non-religious" wars that have occurred in the past or the ones happening now to illustrate my point.

Please note that, for the sake of keeping your response on topic, I'm not talking about how "irrational" it is to believe in religion or to "be someone else's sheep" or whatever other arguments you have about how religion is illogical. Rather, I want to stay on the point you are arguing here which is that Islam (and by extension, religion) made the people violent.

I want to answer another one of the questions you had concerning what Islamic texts say about "this" (and by this, I assume you mean reacting violently to something you don't like). To answer this question thoroughly, I'll assume you are unfamiliar with Islam (please don't take this offensively) and tell you that (Sunni - orthodox) Islam draws its legal and religious rulings from 2 sources: the Qur'an and the books of Hadith. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the actual/direct speech of God (not inspired through the hand of man, etc) given to the Prophet Muhammad. Of course since the Quran is the direct word of God, it holds the highest authority in a Muslim's life and is considered perfect. The Hadith (pl. ahadith) are the preserved sayings, teachings, actions of the Prophet Muhammad which have been transmitted orally and in writing through chains of narrators (isnad) and rigorously analyzed by Islamic scholars for thousands of years to judge how accurate/authentic they are. The most authentic book of Hadith in Sunni Islam is the book of Bukhari which contains roughly 2,000 traditions which vary in strength from "sahih - authentic" to "hasan - good" to "da'if - weak".

Since the Qur'an is the core of Islamic teachings, let's look at what the Qur'an has to say. People criticizing the Qur'an, Islam, Allah, the Prophet, etc have always been around and the Qur'an not only addresses them but addresses how we Muslims should interact with these people. There are different ways Muslims are commanded to engage with non-Muslims who have differing views. One example of this is in chapter 29, verse 46 which states:
Do not argue with those who were given the Book save in the best way,unless it be those of them who are given to wrongdoing (and, therefore,not accessible to courteous argument). Say (to them): "We believe inwhat has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you, and yourGod and our God is one and the same. We are Muslims wholly submitted toHim.

Clearly, this verse demonstrates that Muslims are required to approach debates with "People of the Book" (Christians, Jews) in a polite manner. Although this verse specifically names Jews and Christians, it extends to all people. Countless verses commanding Muslims to enjoin kindness to humanity and to be good to neighbors and kin, Muslim or non-Muslim, demonstrate this. Since this is getting long, I'll quote one last part from the Qur'an which I think should speak volumes on its own and should answer your question on whether Islamic texts dictate that Muslims should react violently to any idiot spewing garbage from his/her soapbox.

Chapter 25, verses 63 - 65

63. And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk onthe earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them(with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness.
http://64. And those who spend the night before their Lord, prostrate and standing.

http://65. Andthose who say: "Our Lord! Avert from us the torment of Hell. Verily!Its torment is ever an inseparable, permanent punishment."

http://66. Evil indeed it (Hell) is as an abode and as a place to dwell.

http://67. And those, who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor stingy, but hold a medium (way) between those (extremes).

http://68. And those who invoke not any other ilah (god)along with Allah, nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except in justice, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does thisshall receive the punishment.

http://69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;

http://70. Exceptthose who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteousdeeds, for those, Allah will change their sins into good deeds, andAllah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

http://71. And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds, then verily, he repents towards Allah with true repentance.

http://72. And those who do not witness falsehood, and if they pass by some ignorant play or ill talk, they pass by it with dignity.
73. And those who, when they are reminded of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord, fall not deaf and blind thereat.
http://74. Andthose who say: "Our Lord! Bestow on us from our wives and our offspringwho will be the comfort of our eyes, and make us leaders for the Muttaqun" (pious)."

http://75. Thosewill be rewarded with the highest place (in Paradise) because of theirpatience. Therein they shall be met with greetings and the word ofpeace and respect.

http://76. Abiding therein; excellent it is as an abode, and as a place to dwell.
With that, I say "peace".

 

[wooly willy]

Just read through the whole thread and I wanna say my thoughts (I'm an African American Muslim born and raised in the US)

Itsthatdude, I seen you post in a few religion threads and that Hinduism thread where you made some unpopular comments (

) and I understand the message you're trying to put across. You, lobotomybeats and Anton are the vocal Atheists on this board and I respect that completely but I've been noticing you and lobotomybeats feel the need to extra hard and militant for no reason. Yes, I understand the purpose of this post is to point out the "illogical" aspects of religion so we can all be "enlightened" like you are but the only thing you pointed out with this video the weak nature of human beings. Regardless of whether we are talking about religious positions, political ideologies or favorite football teams, it is in our nature to become defensive when the "others" attack "us". Think of those riots that happen after soccer games in other parts of the world. As a matter of fact, I'm from the Bay and I know this guy who went to a Raiders/Chargers game a few years back wearing a Chargers jersey and got attacked by Raiders fans. I know you truly believe that a world without religion will make us less violent, less prone to wars, etc but take a second to think about it. Is religion really the problem here or is it in human nature to carve out "us vs them" scenarios? I'll anticipate your response here and assume you will argue that religion is tool used to perpetuate violence and we should just get rid of it to at least stop one common excuse for violence. Once again, do you honestly believe that a religion-free world will give human beings any less of an excuse to kill one another, to commit violent acts against each other or to oppress one another. I don't even need to bring up the examples of the "non-religious" wars that have occurred in the past or the ones happening now to illustrate my point.

Please note that, for the sake of keeping your response on topic, I'm not talking about how "irrational" it is to believe in religion or to "be someone else's sheep" or whatever other arguments you have about how religion is illogical. Rather, I want to stay on the point you are arguing here which is that Islam (and by extension, religion) made the people violent.

I want to answer another one of the questions you had concerning what Islamic texts say about "this" (and by this, I assume you mean reacting violently to something you don't like). To answer this question thoroughly, I'll assume you are unfamiliar with Islam (please don't take this offensively) and tell you that (Sunni - orthodox) Islam draws its legal and religious rulings from 2 sources: the Qur'an and the books of Hadith. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the actual/direct speech of God (not inspired through the hand of man, etc) given to the Prophet Muhammad. Of course since the Quran is the direct word of God, it holds the highest authority in a Muslim's life and is considered perfect. The Hadith (pl. ahadith) are the preserved sayings, teachings, actions of the Prophet Muhammad which have been transmitted orally and in writing through chains of narrators (isnad) and rigorously analyzed by Islamic scholars for thousands of years to judge how accurate/authentic they are. The most authentic book of Hadith in Sunni Islam is the book of Bukhari which contains roughly 2,000 traditions which vary in strength from "sahih - authentic" to "hasan - good" to "da'if - weak".

Since the Qur'an is the core of Islamic teachings, let's look at what the Qur'an has to say. People criticizing the Qur'an, Islam, Allah, the Prophet, etc have always been around and the Qur'an not only addresses them but addresses how we Muslims should interact with these people. There are different ways Muslims are commanded to engage with non-Muslims who have differing views. One example of this is in chapter 29, verse 46 which states:
Do not argue with those who were given the Book save in the best way,unless it be those of them who are given to wrongdoing (and, therefore,not accessible to courteous argument). Say (to them): "We believe inwhat has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you, and yourGod and our God is one and the same. We are Muslims wholly submitted toHim.

Clearly, this verse demonstrates that Muslims are required to approach debates with "People of the Book" (Christians, Jews) in a polite manner. Although this verse specifically names Jews and Christians, it extends to all people. Countless verses commanding Muslims to enjoin kindness to humanity and to be good to neighbors and kin, Muslim or non-Muslim, demonstrate this. Since this is getting long, I'll quote one last part from the Qur'an which I think should speak volumes on its own and should answer your question on whether Islamic texts dictate that Muslims should react violently to any idiot spewing garbage from his/her soapbox.

Chapter 25, verses 63 - 65

63. And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk onthe earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them(with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness.
http://64. And those who spend the night before their Lord, prostrate and standing.

http://65. Andthose who say: "Our Lord! Avert from us the torment of Hell. Verily!Its torment is ever an inseparable, permanent punishment."

http://66. Evil indeed it (Hell) is as an abode and as a place to dwell.

http://67. And those, who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor stingy, but hold a medium (way) between those (extremes).

http://68. And those who invoke not any other ilah (god)along with Allah, nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except in justice, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does thisshall receive the punishment.

http://69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;

http://70. Exceptthose who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteousdeeds, for those, Allah will change their sins into good deeds, andAllah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

http://71. And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds, then verily, he repents towards Allah with true repentance.

http://72. And those who do not witness falsehood, and if they pass by some ignorant play or ill talk, they pass by it with dignity.
73. And those who, when they are reminded of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord, fall not deaf and blind thereat.
http://74. Andthose who say: "Our Lord! Bestow on us from our wives and our offspringwho will be the comfort of our eyes, and make us leaders for the Muttaqun" (pious)."

http://75. Thosewill be rewarded with the highest place (in Paradise) because of theirpatience. Therein they shall be met with greetings and the word ofpeace and respect.

http://76. Abiding therein; excellent it is as an abode, and as a place to dwell.
With that, I say "peace".

 

[fatherless child]

Good work Wooly Will. Read that all and I think that pretty much sums it up for this thread.