Is capitalism sustainable in the long run...

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The majority of people have a very low opinion of our government. Congress has low approval ratings. Are these just symptoms of a bigger problem, the failure of American capitalism. I say the failure of American capitalism because this system of capitalism is not true capitalism, it is capitalism with safeguards in place such as the bank bailouts, social security, unemployment insurance, welfare, and so on.

American capitalism has always exploited an underclass in which the gains are squeezed out of the exploited, usually lower class, and are given to the people at the top of the pyramid. First there were indentured servants, then there were slaves. Now there is free trade with China or legalized slavery. Are we at the point in which there are no more gains to be eked out by the exploitation of others?

Is there no more wealth that can be squeezed out of the lower class and transferred to the top? Are we at a tipping point with mounting debt, high unemployment, promises such as social security that may not be able to be fulfilled. I wonder what will be the next group of people that will need to be exploited to keep the American capitalist machine going. Will it be Americans? Could we become more like China with suicide nets keeping workers from leaping to their deaths?

In summary, are we in an unsustainable system over the long haul?
 
Define the long haul.....its been going for 200+ yrs, so you mean like 400? 700? Every type of govnt type has issues and we are certainly struggling in some areas right now, but every govnt needs to adjust over time to suit the needs of the people and become more in line with the global economy that exists at that given time.....but I think our system is more sustainable over a long time period (without significant reforms) than say China and how they're manipulating their currency and economic growth if you wanna compare it to that....but we definitely need more progressive ideas to prevent an imminent collapse of our financial infrastructure
 
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The majority of people have a very low opinion of our government. Congress has low approval ratings. Are these just symptoms of a bigger problem, the failure of American capitalism. I say the failure of American capitalism because this system of capitalism is not true capitalism, it is capitalism with safeguards in place such as the bank bailouts, social security, unemployment insurance, welfare, and so on.

American capitalism has always exploited an underclass in which the gains are squeezed out of the exploited, usually lower class, and are given to the people at the top of the pyramid. First there were indentured servants, then there were slaves. Now there is free trade with China or legalized slavery. Are we at the point in which there are no more gains to be eked out by the exploitation of others?

Is there no more wealth that can be squeezed out of the lower class and transferred to the top? Are we at a tipping point with mounting debt, high unemployment, promises such as social security that may not be able to be fulfilled. I wonder what will be the next group of people that will need to be exploited to keep the American capitalist machine going. Will it be Americans? Could we become more like China with suicide nets keeping workers from leaping to their deaths?

In summary, are we in an unsustainable system over the long haul?
I'll agree that Capitalism with the moral hazard removed isn't sustainable. We have removed every incentive to save, be prudent, and plan for the future for both large businesses as well as people.

I have to disagree with the "exploitation" part though. While we may disagree with working conditions in China, if you look at history we have forced massive reforms to their work structure. Their middle class is the fastest growing in the world due to increasing wages and the voices of activists here in the U.S. have forced companies to pay more attention to how Chinese companies are treating their employees.
 
Define the long haul.....its been going for 200+ yrs, so you mean like 400? 700? Every type of govnt type has issues and we are certainly struggling in some areas right now, but every govnt needs to adjust over time to suit the needs of the people and become more in line with the global economy that exists at that given time.....but I think our system is more sustainable over a long time period (without significant reforms) than say China and how they're manipulating their currency and economic growth if you wanna compare it to that....but we definitely need more progressive ideas to prevent an imminent collapse of our financial infrastructure

Yea, like 400-700 years. When you think about it 200 years isn't a long time, especially with the changes that have happened. Can we really count the years in which we had slavery and unequal rights as being sustainable capitalism.



I'll agree that Capitalism with the moral hazard removed isn't sustainable. We have removed every incentive to save, be prudent, and plan for the future for both large businesses as well as people.

I have to disagree with the "exploitation" part though. While we may disagree with working conditions in China, if you look at history we have forced massive reforms to their work structure. Their middle class is the fastest growing in the world due to increasing wages and the voices of activists here in the U.S. have forced companies to pay more attention to how Chinese companies are treating their employees.

True, you are right, everything is short term with no planning for the future, even down to the government. Nobody in the government is thinking about the debt and deficits, they are just thinking about getting re-elected. That's going to be interesting how things will turn out in China. When wages rise, will manufacturing begin to shift to the US to where it is like a balance between manufacturing in the US and manufacturing in China.
 
I'll agree that Capitalism with the moral hazard removed isn't sustainable. We have removed every incentive to save, be prudent, and plan for the future for both large businesses as well as people.

I have to disagree with the "exploitation" part though. While we may disagree with working conditions in China, if you look at history we have forced massive reforms to their work structure. Their middle class is the fastest growing in the world due to increasing wages and the voices of activists here in the U.S. have forced companies to pay more attention to how Chinese companies are treating their employees.
True, you are right, everything is short term with no planning for the future, even down to the government. Nobody in the government is thinking about the debt and deficits, they are just thinking about getting re-elected. That's going to be interesting how things will turn out in China. When wages rise, will manufacturing begin to shift to the US to where it is like a balance between manufacturing in the US and manufacturing in China.
It already has. A friend manufactures wireless skateboards in China and he's considering moving some of the manufacturing elsewhere if prices keep going up like they have the last 2 years. I also read an article that companies are shipping jobs back to the U.S. from India due to the rising wages.

Bottom line, our representatives are a reflection of us. Once WE change, then our government will begin to change. We the people talk a good game about cutting government, but as soon as something is proposed, the group that benefits starts screaming and things go back to business as usual.
 
Capitalism is based on growth. And there is a limit to growth.
 
No.

Capitalism, even in the short term, is insufferable to the (mass) human condition. Long term? Forget about it...:smh:

Frankly, I can't fathom how any one in their right mind can advocate for a system and/or complex that apotheosizes capitalism.



...
 
No.

Capitalism, even in the short term, is insufferable to the (mass) human condition. Long term? Forget about it...:smh:

Frankly, I can't fathom how any one in their right mind can advocate for a system and/or complex that apotheosizes capitalism.



...
Agreed.

Years into the future, the current system of 'American capitalism' will most likely be described in school textbooks as what it actually is: a fascist oligarchy. Corporations and the government are combining to suppress the people under the guise of the "free market".. if you want to know if the 'free market' really solves all ills, just ask yourself why we have more than enough physical resources to ensure that everyone's basic needs are met, yet millions of people are continue to die of sickness and struggle in poverty. If aliens were to come and observe the way we were managing our society, they would be left scratching their heads because it doesn't make sense.

The American government doesn't view its constituents as people; it views them as consumers. Our entire economic and political system is revolves around using humans as 'units of labor' to drive production, spend money, and pay taxes.

Many countries in Europe seem to have the right idea and are moving towards a more sensible and human-centric approach to government. But of course, the American propaganda machine pushes the idea that they're "Damn commies and socialists" to prevent people from realizing that they're being screwed. Regardless, I'm confident that when enough people become disillusioned with the government, changes will occur.

Good video on the subject:

 
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Define the long haul.....its been going for 200+ yrs, so you mean like 400? 700? Every type of govnt type has issues and we are certainly struggling in some areas right now, but every govnt needs to adjust over time to suit the needs of the people and become more in line with the global economy that exists at that given time.....but I think our system is more sustainable over a long time period (without significant reforms) than say China and how they're manipulating their currency and economic growth if you wanna compare it to that....but we definitely need more progressive ideas to prevent an imminent collapse of our financial infrastructure

Yea, like 400-700 years. When you think about it 200 years isn't a long time, especially with the changes that have happened. Can we really count the years in which we had slavery and unequal rights as being sustainable capitalism.


Ah yeah I actually agree with you on that point....if we're being honest, a lot of this country was built upon free labor, and that allowed us to develop an agricultural identity and a booming economy back in the day without having to pay for the services with slavery being in existence...in essence it did help fuel our nation into what it has been able to become (sadly).We spend trillions on defense budgets when people don't have basic essentials for life, healthcare, etc. Plus a lot of schools are failing, and govnt is short sighted...

Maybe we should have adopted the Iroquois Seven Generation sustainability principle, where they made decisions in the present considering how it could impact those seven generations (hundreds of years) beyond them...

"In all of your deliberations in the Confederate Council, in your efforts at law making, in all your official acts, self-interest shall be cast into oblivion. Cast not over your shoulder behind you the warnings of the nephews and nieces should they chide you for any error or wrong you may do, but return to the way of the Great Law which is just and right. Look and listen for the welfare of the whole people and have always in view not only the present but also the coming generations, even those whose faces are yet beneath the surface of the ground – the unborn of the future Nation."

Our current model of govnt couldn't be further from this type of thinking....but with the correct changes and adaptations with economic feasibility, environmental sustainability, and things of that nature for it to thrive in the future
 
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It's a myth to give people hope that things are fair.

:smokin on the Iroquois Seven Generation sustainability principle
 
Agreed.
Years into the future, the current system of 'American capitalism' will most likely be described in school textbooks as what it actually is: a fascist oligarchy. Corporations and the government are combining to suppress the people under the guise of the "free market".. if you want to know if the 'free market' really solves all ills, just ask yourself why we have more than enough physical resources to ensure that everyone's basic needs are met, yet millions of people are continue to die of sickness and struggle in poverty. If aliens were to come and observe the way we were managing our society, they would be left scratching their heads because it doesn't make sense.
The American government doesn't view its constituents as people; it views them as consumers. Our entire economic and political system is revolves around using humans as 'units of labor' to drive production, spend money, and pay taxes.
Many countries in Europe seem to have the right idea and are moving towards a more sensible and human-centric approach to government. But of course, the American propaganda machine pushes the idea that they're "Damn commies and socialists" to prevent people from realizing that they're being screwed. Regardless, I'm confident that when enough people become disillusioned with the government, changes will occur.
Good video on the subject:

Well said!
 
Capitalism works for the people at the top AND the people at the bottom who want to be at the top.

Not only does it reward risk and merit it helps the entire country. Someone with the mind of a Bill Gates or the hardwork of a entrepreneur who bootstraps his business he/she deserves every reward they can ethically obtain. Also the output of their existence creates jobs.

Also Capitalism has created an overall growth in this country that other countries envy "A rising tide lifts all boats". Which is why the "Occupy Wall Street" movement was ironic because even America's lower income class is in the 1% of the world's wealth. Thanks to capitalism

So yes its sustainable as long as producers are allowed to create and consumers are able to buy freely.

In a way Capitalism has always existed where the few creators or people who are willing to "compete" has always influenced, helped or ruled the many. Why would it stop now when its much easier now more than ever for anybody to compete?
 
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Sustainable? :lol: Is over 200 years not enough? How long you want? I mean it did survive the market crashing worldwide and a depression.

There's nothing inherently unsustainable about capitalism as far as it's long lasting prominence. What it comes down to in this kind of capitalism is ppl believing in money based on nothing and the ppl controlling the flow of money not getting reckless with it. You add in insurmountable debt and a growing deficit and this is what you'll get. We know how we got here it's just ppl aren't prepared to do what's necessary to get out of it.
 
A non-capitalist society is borderline communism in a perverse way. All the greatest technological inventions and advancements have came about do to capitalism. It's worked for us for the past 250 years. Of course some regulations need o be put in place. But only for the better of the people.
 
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A non-capitalist society is borderline communism in a perverse way. All the greatest technological inventions and advancements have came about do to capitalism. It's worked for us for the past 250 years. Of course some regulations need o be put in place. But only for the better of the people.

This is not true.
 
You guys are right. Forgot about hoover dam, nasa and all it's inventions, and of course north Americas complex interstate network. I guess not all of the governments innovation comes from war.
 
Capitalism works for the people at the top AND the people at the bottom who want to be at the top.
Not only does it reward risk and merit it helps the entire country. Someone with the mind of a Bill Gates or the hardwork of a entrepreneur who bootstraps his business he/she deserves every reward they can ethically obtain. Also the output of their existence creates jobs.
Also Capitalism has created an overall growth in this country that other countries envy "A rising tide lifts all boats". Which is why the "Occupy Wall Street" movement was ironic because even America's lower income class is in the 1% of the world's wealth. Thanks to capitalism
So yes its sustainable as long as producers are allowed to create and consumers are able to buy freely.
In a way Capitalism has always existed where the few creators or people who are willing to "compete" has always influenced, helped or ruled the many. Why would it stop now when its much easier now more than ever for anybody to compete?
You are missing the point. Yes, its sustainable for the US to prosper with capitalism but only if we continue to exploit the rest of the world. You said it yourself America's lower income class is in the 1% of the world's wealth, while the rest of the world is dirt poor. The income gap is is wider than ever before and will continue to widen. This is because capitalism is based on the exploitation of others. How rich do you want us to get while other people don't have food or water under our beloved capitalism? 
 
Capitalism works for the people at the top AND the people at the bottom who want to be at the top.
Not only does it reward risk and merit it helps the entire country. Someone with the mind of a Bill Gates or the hardwork of a entrepreneur who bootstraps his business he/she deserves every reward they can ethically obtain. Also the output of their existence creates jobs.
Also Capitalism has created an overall growth in this country that other countries envy "A rising tide lifts all boats". Which is why the "Occupy Wall Street" movement was ironic because even America's lower income class is in the 1% of the world's wealth. Thanks to capitalism
So yes its sustainable as long as producers are allowed to create and consumers are able to buy freely.
In a way Capitalism has always existed where the few creators or people who are willing to "compete" has always influenced, helped or ruled the many. Why would it stop now when its much easier now more than ever for anybody to compete?
You are missing the point. Yes, its sustainable for the US to prosper with capitalism but only if we continue to exploit the rest of the world. You said it yourself America's lower income class is in the 1% of the world's wealth, while the rest of the world is dirt poor. The income gap is is wider than ever before and will continue to widen. This is because capitalism is based on the exploitation of others. How rich do you want us to get while other people don't have food or water under our beloved capitalism? 
How are you defining "exploitation"? Through the assembly line, cars have become affordable to even those in 3rd world countries. Through mass manufacturing in east Asia, cell phones and laptops can be had by those in remote villages.
 

If we look at history, fascism, communism, and dictators have been far more exploitative of those under their rule than capitalist countries.
 
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