SHUGES wrote:
It's almost heartbreaking seeing how disrespectful some of you dudes are being towards AI.
LilStar has most of it covered.
So all I'll add is that I hope AI lands someplace where he will truly be appreciated.
Dude was so happy to come to Detroit.... Ready to give his all... And yet his teammates and his joke of a coach were the ones who let him down.
Y'all criticizing AI for lack of effort??? What about Sheed (the biggest underachiever there is)? Or Rip (the biggest crybaby there is)? Or SUCKey (who hasn't exactly worked his tail off to live up to this "next greatest" tag that so many of you were quick to give him)??
Detroit is a joke.
Do you think AI cares about winning? Truthfull answer. Not the same regurgitated stuff AI people say, do YOU think AI cares about winning?
Iverson - " I'll Retire before i do this again.."....... on his role on Piston.
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by guillermo gutierez,
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lakersmets49ers
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at least iverson is being honest and not giving one of those obviously scripted policatlly correct responses and i can respect him for that.
lilstarz07
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cp, even you should know that answer ... so ai doesnt care about winning? do you think he is really that stupid? seriously? do you realize no onein this thread has a damn thing to say about ai if he has a ring ... you think ai doesnt know that? you think ai doesnt know how he is perceived? all this ainot wanting to win @%*+ is NONSENSE, even if its for the most selfish reason of all, so people cant criticize him for it ...
ima try to blog for espn or something ...
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How is Detroit a joke? AI was given the minutes and the team was losing, he sits out and Rip is back in the lineup (where he should be) and they are back towinning ball games.
Face it, Bubba aiin't all that nice anymore, he's not the same guy who carries a team like he did back in Philly, he is getting older and is not asefficient as he used to be (plus his revolving door defense is nothing to go crazy about).
Detroit only made the move to clear cap space for 2010 and it was a smart one since they felt they could at least be competitive in the process, but the teamis better off without him.
He is NOT going to go into ANY contending team and play 40+ minutes a game, he has to accept a bench role now. if he wants to jack up 30+ shots a night and 40+minutes like the "good ol' days" he will have to go to a losing squad.
Face it, Bubba aiin't all that nice anymore, he's not the same guy who carries a team like he did back in Philly, he is getting older and is not asefficient as he used to be (plus his revolving door defense is nothing to go crazy about).
Detroit only made the move to clear cap space for 2010 and it was a smart one since they felt they could at least be competitive in the process, but the teamis better off without him.
He is NOT going to go into ANY contending team and play 40+ minutes a game, he has to accept a bench role now. if he wants to jack up 30+ shots a night and 40+minutes like the "good ol' days" he will have to go to a losing squad.
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AI aint even my favorite player,but you gotta respect his game(even if its not your style) 5-6 years ago nobody wated it with him
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^
The hell you been at?
The hell you been at?
I don't think AI cares about winning. I don't.
Does he want a ring? Sure. Does he want to be a part of a team and do it? No.
Ask yourself, why does this stuff always follow him whereever he goes. Do you ever do that? Do you ever wonder why there is always crap goin on around thisguy? Why do you overlook it? There has to be a reason. I hope that you aren't going to tell me that it's ALWAYS someone else's fault, and neverAI's.
Why did Philly feel the need to trade Stack? Coulda swore I remember there being some issue with AI in there. Didn't get along, didn't want to sharethe ball with each other, something like that. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not trying to say that it's a fact.
Why did AI have so many issues with Larry Brown?
Of course we know the practice thing.
Were there not some rumors of Andre Igudola being held back in his development becasue Allen always had to have the ball, didn't Philly this time decidethey wanted to stick with Andre and that is why they moved Iverson to Denver?
Didn't AI and Karl always have issues? Always questioning why this was done, or why we didn't win this or that? Again, more rumors of Melo beingstunted in his growth due to AI.
Denver starts out this season what 0-3? Something like that. And right away they move him to Detroit. Denver was cash strapped remember? They flat out SOLDMarcus Canby. And yet, they took on Billups who has 3 more years GUARANTEED at 50 mil instead of just letting AI and his contract fall off the books afterthis season. Doesn't that raise a red flag in your eyes? A team with no money takes on a huge contract for an aging player. Could that not be construedas just flat out wanting AI out of town? Possible isn't it?
And then right away Denver starts winning.
And Detroit starts losing. Again, not all AI's fault, but here we are, a THIRD franchise and still, the same problems keep following AI. So is it theteams? All the other players? All the other coaches he's played with?
Or just AI?
And again, when he picks a team next season, if he doesn't win some more, and he has more problems with a coach, and another young player on that teamthere are whispers of stalled development, are you going to come in here AGAIN defending AI saying it's really not his fault? Again?
I'm sorry, but to me, in my most humble of opinions, I do not beleive Allen Iverson is about winning. I think AI is about AI. And AI only.
lilstarz07
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uhhh boy ... ai dont got it anymore? really?
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If you don't think the team was dogging it when AI was starting you are blind. Rasheed is known for @%@* like that. Can't wait til he's out of theleague.
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thats my thing, its a shame the rest of these Pistons (tayshawn, Rip and Sheed) are getting a pass. they clearly were not playing Hard with AI inthe Lineup.
them +@%!+% are doggin it so bad and that %!** is unacceptable
lilstarz07
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naw it couldnt be ... not those hard working, #!@ busting piston greats ... lol
celtixhalfshell
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ai might be hood but i wouldnt be able 2 tell. dude talk like he was born w/ a silver spoon..................
on dogs? how u gonna be 3rd all tme career scoring avg. behind only money and wilt yet have no ring 2 show 4 it or even widespread love?
its cuz HE'S SELFISH.
we get it man. u're nice. u're God's gift.
well if u a gift.......gifts still need to be taken care of and he simply doesnt do that. his priorities is jacked.
pride cometh b4 the fall. i hope his is a lesson 4 all holier than thou athletes; humble yourself, play YOUR position and master it, learn to evolve, andpractice as if you knew you had only one last shot at a 'chip and then maybe just maybe you'll be worthy of true glory.....immortalization in a HOF andrings. if not? make some noise have gr8 stats but afterward be only a rich near 4gotten old man
as 4 how dude dress? dont ever judge a book by its cover. ever
on dogs? how u gonna be 3rd all tme career scoring avg. behind only money and wilt yet have no ring 2 show 4 it or even widespread love?
its cuz HE'S SELFISH.
we get it man. u're nice. u're God's gift.
well if u a gift.......gifts still need to be taken care of and he simply doesnt do that. his priorities is jacked.
pride cometh b4 the fall. i hope his is a lesson 4 all holier than thou athletes; humble yourself, play YOUR position and master it, learn to evolve, andpractice as if you knew you had only one last shot at a 'chip and then maybe just maybe you'll be worthy of true glory.....immortalization in a HOF andrings. if not? make some noise have gr8 stats but afterward be only a rich near 4gotten old man
as 4 how dude dress? dont ever judge a book by its cover. ever
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QFT.
As I said before how can you expect Iverson to play in Detroit when its obvious that no one likes him.
And to CP1708 saying that Iverson was stunting Iggy's growth I say thats totally false, Iggy is a swingman and no more thanthat.
It's not like since Iverson left his stats sky rocketed, he's the main guy in Philly now so of course his stats are going to change.
I just shake me head at everybody whose calling Iverson overrated.
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^ and what about J.R. Smith on the Nuggets? He seems to be flourishing in a non-AI environment.
The follow is from the other thread I had started, which is discussing the same thing. At the end, I try my best to help the casual fans understand why AI willnever be successful, regardless of where he goes.
EUREKA! That's a nice drawn out way of saying you're a casual NBA fan as opposed to an avid or diehard fan. I could gather that from the way youconfuse being a great scorer with being a great basketball player. That's fine, but I actually follow the game and have come to appreciate it, whether ornot millions of dollars are being exchanged. Of course it's entertainment, but it's entertainment with a purpose. This isn't like WWE (most of thetime), where backstage pull determines results. It's competitive entertainment. Winners are rewarded and losers are not, which is why AI has said he wantsa ring. He wants to be remembered as a winner.
This is from an article following the pistons trade.
The follow is from the other thread I had started, which is discussing the same thing. At the end, I try my best to help the casual fans understand why AI willnever be successful, regardless of where he goes.
Originally Posted by jefffort5
like i said..when that whole theory of "this is still basketball" or "respecter of the game" goes out the window once u have tmobile nba commercials, etc. once it becomes a form of entertainment your tainting the sport from jump..thats why i dont understand how ppl get so mad at steriod use..i mean..u want these dudes to entertain you..if they wasnt doing sum of the incredible stuff they do..fans would decline and everything would go down from there, etc.Originally Posted by TraSoul82
When I say "respecter of the game" I'm not saying you need to go read James Naismith's autobiography before you speak to me about basketball. I'm just saying that you have to realize that the game of b-ball is more than about scoring. And there is more to defense than going for steals. AI was one of the most exciting players to step out onto a court due to his offensive talent. But this Myth about how much success he would have had if he was just on this team or that team or if he just had the right big man... it's just nonsense. AI's style of ball for the most part doesn't help team success. So while his play is entertaining, I just don't want it being confused with sound basketball. It's easy to say, "swap AI for Kobe and AI would have 3 rings too". But then you would have to imagine AI playing in the triangle offense. That would be a sight to behold. You would also have to find a defensive replacement for Kobe too.Originally Posted by jefffort5
co-sign..and it being your main goal to get ai fans to do this and that is hating in itself....me personally..dude has done some dumb stuff..but cmon now...lebron was talking knicks not too long ago he got slammed bu not like ppl slammin ai..AND what scorer hasnt had a shot first mentality?Originally Posted by BangDak
^well now that i think about it, i understand the reason of stuckey starting.
A.I. was NEVER in the plans for the future. the pistons just took him for his expiring contract, so why play a player who has no future here?
might as well start your future pg (which i believe is horrible)
A.I. was never a good fit for the nuggets. they needed a real PG, not a shoot first mentality guy to chuck more shots.Originally Posted by TraSoul82
I have no qualms about admitting my problems with AI. I never really like him coming into Denver, but I drank the Kool-Aid and cheered for my team. I am just adamant about how his play and attitude negatively effects the team concept. You can look at AI's stats all day, but he still dribbles too much and there is no stat for it. He NEEDS the ball and, as he's made it clear, he NEEDS TIME with the ball. He also needs time to get into a "groove" and get into the "flow of the game" and all that other nonsense he's talking about. And he also has to start, he's tried coming off the bench for an entire TWO GAMES and it's just not working out.And he started complaining after just 1 game, which is why I started this thread.
But really, how can you defend a guy while his team is falling out of the Eastern playoff picture, and he's talking about retirement. Really? Is NOW really the time to talk about how unhappy he is and how he'll walk away from basketball before he tries coming off the bench again. But of course, he'll do whatever the coach says, including showing up to every practice.I just wonder if ANYTHING is ever his fault, according to his fan base.
Check page 2 of this thread and you will see where I guaranteed AI would bring up retirement. No Edits have been done, it's been there.
My main goal is to get his fan base to become actual basketball fans and to understand why true fans and respecters of the game can see AI for what he is these days. Can AI still put up numbers? Technically yes, but he'll have a hard time finding a coach who will let him do it these days. His me-first attitude is something that is well documented and coaches and front offices (and USA Basketball) can see it from a mile away. It would take a special kind of desperation for a coach to let AI run things like he did in his Philly days. His clout account currently has insufficient funds. Couple that with the fact that he has no intentions of truly giving the team concept a chance and what you have is AI walking away from a game he could still contribute to if he would just understand that everything doesn't start and end with him. He may still be the answer, but the question changed a long time ago. It is also my goal to get AI fans to understand that inefficient volume scoring =/= being the best. I just see it as people helping people, and I intend to do my part.
The pistons are not falling out of hte playoff picture because of a.i. its because they legitimately just arn't good enough.
To me, it seems like you just have a gruge against his "shoot first mentality" and "ball hog" ways. honestly, i dont see anything wrong with the way A.I is playing right now. watch a piston games, you cant just possibly put the loss on him.
and another thing..i hate that "basketball fans" blah blah blah "respecters of the game" bs outta here..all that goes out the window when u start paying ppl for the sport..its now entertainment first...so all that respect for the game bs is out the window..it really makes me mad when ppl say that
and its not about finding him a coach that will let hiim do what he did in philly..he just doesnt have it anymore..plain and simple..he is 5'10 165 with a ton of injuries..he's not as fast or explosive as he use to be when he was in philly...wrap it up...its time for him to reitre..and im a ai fan and i said since the beginging of the yr its time for him to retire..
And please stop accusing me of blaming Detroit's losses on AI. I have NEVER solely blamed AI for Detroit's struggles (feel free to search for quotes). What I am blaming him for is contradicting himself on how he would embrace the team and sacrifice and do whatever it takes to win. But for every logical statement I give there will be the accusation of "hate" (guilty), and then a ridiculous hypothetical of what pieces AI would have needed to get a ring.
I still think it's funny that his fans are confused about whether or no he has lost a step. I still think he has the skills to do what he does best in a slightly declined state, but again coaches are going to protect their teams from that.
Basketball is basketball...but basketball + million dollar contracts = entertainment..at that point u can it for what it is...
EUREKA! That's a nice drawn out way of saying you're a casual NBA fan as opposed to an avid or diehard fan. I could gather that from the way youconfuse being a great scorer with being a great basketball player. That's fine, but I actually follow the game and have come to appreciate it, whether ornot millions of dollars are being exchanged. Of course it's entertainment, but it's entertainment with a purpose. This isn't like WWE (most of thetime), where backstage pull determines results. It's competitive entertainment. Winners are rewarded and losers are not, which is why AI has said he wantsa ring. He wants to be remembered as a winner.
This is from an article following the pistons trade.
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go back to the sixers meng
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lilstar, just give up. some people are just too stubborn...
Oh word? Some people are too stubborn? Like when you tell them that their favorite player has never won a God damn thing in his entire life andthey still say he's a winner?
Or when guys in here cryin "the pistons players just don't like Ai, they're so mean to him"
Or when his riders go on and on about how "if you just let AI play to HIS strengths, the team will be better" even though it's a team game and Aican't seem to change his game to a TEAM because it doesn't suit AI.
Or how they contiually ignore the fact that these same problems come up with each and every single team that AI has played for and yet, they just gloss overthat and pretend it doesn't mean anything. (notice how Philly and Denver are much more quieter and lockerroom friendly without mr AI?)
Or how people are in here straight BLAMING guys like Prince and Rip (I of course give you guys Sheed, dude has always been a problem) but Prince and Rip whowon in college and have won in the NBA are all of a sudden going to tank games just because they don't like AI??????
You mean stubborn like that? Oh, you're right, I'm stubborn. I keep stubbornly wasting my time telling you people how it is, but since AI is a herocuz he keeps it real and has tatoos and wears cornrows and plays hard there's no POSSIBLE way anything else I've said is true. Heaven forbid someonespeaks on ya'lls hero like that.
It's real simple. AI = not a winner. FACT.
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CP going all in
lilstarz07
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i never said ai was a winner in the team sense ...
the pistons players visibly play lazier when ai is in ...
the same could be said about every superstar ...
each and every team? o you mean the teams that needed a pg and tried to get iverson? a whole lotta sense ...
they visibly dont like ai ESPECIALLY rip, thats obvious ...
and like i said, i pray ai wins one ship just because yours and everyone elses comments are null and void ... i guess barkley is the same though
the pistons players visibly play lazier when ai is in ...
the same could be said about every superstar ...
each and every team? o you mean the teams that needed a pg and tried to get iverson? a whole lotta sense ...
they visibly dont like ai ESPECIALLY rip, thats obvious ...
and like i said, i pray ai wins one ship just because yours and everyone elses comments are null and void ... i guess barkley is the same though
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Oh no.
I'll say it once more:
Iverson wants to win badly, but he doesn't appear to be willing to learn what it takes to win at this stage. He approaches the game much like his fans, who seem to be just casual fans of the game. Now he has a "bigger goal" but he has no idea how to achieve it. He just knows that he has to "give it his all" and "play every game like it's his last." But if he would have been paying "respect to the game" (there is is again) he would have all of the knowledge it takes to lead a team and play within a system and actually trust a coach and actually mesh well with teammates and tutor the up and comers on the tricks of the trade. But the game has evolved, all the while he was too busy "entertaining" the people for his millions to see it.
I'm not here to say that he has ruined Detroit basketball this year or for the future. Hell, a lot of people thought the Nuggets would miss him, but they bounced back soundly (after gaining a floor general and good teammate). All I am doing it responding to the claims AI has made about wanting to win, and I've tried my best to show his fans (casual basketball fans) the reasons why he'll never achieve that goal, regardless of where he goes. But if you don't take the time to understand and appreciate how the game works, much like your fallen protaganist, you'll never understand what it take to be successful at the game. This is how a former MVP can quickly turn into a benchwarming journeyman. Respect your craft or your craft or your craft won't respect you. It's unfortunate that AI had to learn this the hard way, if he's learned anything at all.
You have a few people believing what you've been saying is sensible. Don't throw ALL of your credibility away by comparing AI to Barkley. My word, sir.
Look, I'm not tryin to jump all in everyone. Dude with the stubborn got me.
I typed that damn post in like 30 seconds. Got me over here mutterin to myself and sh*^.
I like AI. I know it may not sound like it, but I do. I know that the guy is a warrior and he gives his all. My frustration is the people who defend him anddo anything they can to deflect from dude. It bothers me. It's damn near the exact same way with TMac. Go try and tell TMac riders that Tracy ain'ta winner. That thread fills up real quick, trust me, I been in the trenches, it ain't pretty.
But it's ok to say some things about a guy even if it stings. And I can dig it if someone wants to defend AI and take a different approach, Lord knows Ihave some views around here that are known as dumb, I'm ok with that. At the end of the day, we just fussin over some sports topics at work, nothin betterthen that sittin at a desk.
As for the Barkley comparisons, Chuck at least tried to alter his game when he went to Houston and tried to blend in with Hakeem and Pip, tried to make itwork, tried to make a go of it. And also, Chuck didn't destroy the locker room in Phoenix, or any of that, he left quietly and loved by the franchise. Philly was the only place that Bark had any issues. Philly and midgets with plate glass windows.
I like AI. I know it may not sound like it, but I do. I know that the guy is a warrior and he gives his all. My frustration is the people who defend him anddo anything they can to deflect from dude. It bothers me. It's damn near the exact same way with TMac. Go try and tell TMac riders that Tracy ain'ta winner. That thread fills up real quick, trust me, I been in the trenches, it ain't pretty.
But it's ok to say some things about a guy even if it stings. And I can dig it if someone wants to defend AI and take a different approach, Lord knows Ihave some views around here that are known as dumb, I'm ok with that. At the end of the day, we just fussin over some sports topics at work, nothin betterthen that sittin at a desk.
As for the Barkley comparisons, Chuck at least tried to alter his game when he went to Houston and tried to blend in with Hakeem and Pip, tried to make itwork, tried to make a go of it. And also, Chuck didn't destroy the locker room in Phoenix, or any of that, he left quietly and loved by the franchise. Philly was the only place that Bark had any issues. Philly and midgets with plate glass windows.
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truthgetsbusy
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Just because AI doesnt fit with the Pistons system that means he's selfish and washed up? Would Carmelo been selfish if they had drafted him? AI justdoesn't fit that College share the ball system. And actually alot of other players wouldn't fit there. That's why GM's build around certainplayers this aint 2k or Live where the best team on paper wins. Dumars made a bad move. AI can still get it done. How many offenses really give a 6 foot shootfirst player many opportunities? Kobe wouldn't even fit in with Detriot. How many PGs are better than Rondo? Now how many fit better than him with theCeltics? Exactly. AI has been a villain his whole career so this doesn't surprise me but you guys are going to have to wait some more years for that"washed up" talk.
