Keith Olbermann Get Emotional After Prop. 8 Vol. I'm Speechless.

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

From a legal standpoint once you legalize gay marriage you have no legal ground on which to make polygamy illegal. Just playing devil's advocate.

thanks for making that claim. either argue it or leave it as a troll statement.

Why should I? Why I gotta be troll?

 

[paidnhalf]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

The black people did vote voted because they don't equate the discrimination they receive from their skin color to discrimination you receive from your sexual preference when they find out what your sexual preference is. The no to prop 8 campaign failed miserably trying to reach out to any community they weren't comfortable near. As I stated before the California Gay community shown was mostly white and asian I don't see how they would even think that the black and hispanic community would see this as their problem.
Not only that there are people out their who don't equate the gay lifestyle as a death sentence of a lifestyle. I personally know two older women who dated women for 10 years or more and after they broke up went back to men with no hesitation. They happen to fall in love with those women.
There is a combination of both people who choose to be with the same sex person and those who who felt it was natural from the beginning.

This is the 2nd time you've used your friends as an example and I'm just as perplexed. So you've never heard of bisexuality where you're from?

There is no such thing as being bisexual, just like there is no such thing as straight, or gay.

I too have several friends who were just attracted to a certain 'girl' following after: went back to males. She was like "look at me as pan-sexual, not bi-sexual."

Its more like a scale from 1-10, 1 being "straight" 10 being "gay"

Nobody is a 10, nobody is a 1, and certainly nobody is a 5.

As far as Olbermann: I agree, but if you don't realize he is as left as Orielly is to the right: you are in denial, or you don't watch MSNBC.

Just because he agrees with your views doesn't make him right.

hmmmmm

 

[daytona 5000]

I want someone to tell me how 2 lesbians getting married or having a civil union EFFECTS YOU PERSONALLY.




It's okay. I'll wait.

 

[tkthegirl]

Originally Posted by The Jersey Shirt

Also TKtheGirl, it really doesn't help to justify your point by using the ONE example of your two friends as an attempt to explain ALL gay people. One of the first things you said in this post that struck me as VERY poingiant was that you criticized the exit pole for only interviewing 224 black people. If you feel that those 200 some people just aren't enough to justify THAT point that blacks weren't as reasponsible as stated, then it really doesn't seem reasonable to throw an example taken from less then 1% that cross section and apply it back at ALL gay people.

To bad I didn't say all gay people if you read anything I've said at all I clearly stated BOTH situations exist in my opinion. Its not just people whochoose and just people who are born with it.

 

[basirwaahid]

DAYTONA 5000 wrote:
They are fighting for the right to be treated EQUALLY, fool. That was the basic premise of the civil rights movement. Black people weren't treated the same as whites and they wanted EQUALITY. Please explain to me how gay people fighting for the right to have equal beneifts, is different from black people fighting for the rights to have equal benefits.



So let me get this straight, this woman wanting to sit anywhere on a bus,

is the same as struggle as these two women wanting to get married so they can have lower car insurance premiums & file jointly??

The fact that we're only talking marriage is not a enough for me to even side with Gay People on this issue or to even think they're not being treatedEQUAL & is definitely not enough for me to help them fight for a cause that I could care less about. Is there anything else they're struggling to haveEQUALITY in our society with???? We can go line for line when it comes to GAY PEOPLE NOT being treated as equal compared to BLACK PEOPLE some 60 years ago& it wouldn't be close.

 

[jumpman247]

Let them live, let god judge them.

 

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

I want someone to tell me how 2 lesbians getting married or having a civil union EFFECTS YOU PERSONALLY.




It's okay. I'll wait.

While you're waiting you might want to learn the difference between "affects" and "effects". Just saying...

Also, thats a bad premise for an argument.

 

[thetrapezeswinger]

Sigh. Let me sum this up for all you on your soapbox. NO ONE is saying the atrocities minorities (including gays) had to endure before the civil rightsmovement is even close to what the gays are fighting for today, the right to marry. It's painstakingly obvious, so people please stop automaticallyassuming that. However it is clear that there is a certain group of people being discriminated against based on backwards logic and fear. THAT is what theyshare in common. So please everyone just stop with the "black people were beaten to death blah blah blah." We know. We're not saying the the gayshave it worse now than the minorities in the 60's and 70's. That's just plain stupid. We're saying that they want same rights and equality,which is exactly what the civil rights movement was about. THAT they share in common as well.

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by TheTrapezeSwinger

Sigh. Let me sum this up for all you on your soapbox. NO ONE is saying the atrocities minorities (including gays) had to endure before the civil rights movement is even close to what the gays are fighting for today. It's painstakingly obvious, so people please stop automatically assuming that. However it is clear that there is a certain group of people being discriminated against based on backwards logic and fear. THAT is what they share in common. So please everyone just stop with the "black people were beaten to death blah blah blah." We know. We're not saying the the gays have it worse now than the minorities in the 60's and 70's. That's just plain stupid. We're saying that they want same rights and equality, which is exactly what the civil rights movement was about. THAT they share in common.

I am sorry, but if you think gay marriage is a civil rights issue, you are missing the point.

 

[thetrapezeswinger]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by TheTrapezeSwinger

Sigh. Let me sum this up for all you on your soapbox. NO ONE is saying the atrocities minorities (including gays) had to endure before the civil rights movement is even close to what the gays are fighting for today. It's painstakingly obvious, so people please stop automatically assuming that. However it is clear that there is a certain group of people being discriminated against based on backwards logic and fear. THAT is what they share in common. So please everyone just stop with the "black people were beaten to death blah blah blah." We know. We're not saying the the gays have it worse now than the minorities in the 60's and 70's. That's just plain stupid. We're saying that they want same rights and equality, which is exactly what the civil rights movement was about. THAT they share in common.

I am sorry, but if you think gay marriage is a civil rights issue, you are missing the point.

I feel sorry for people like you.

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by TheTrapezeSwinger

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by TheTrapezeSwinger

Sigh. Let me sum this up for all you on your soapbox. NO ONE is saying the atrocities minorities (including gays) had to endure before the civil rights movement is even close to what the gays are fighting for today. It's painstakingly obvious, so people please stop automatically assuming that. However it is clear that there is a certain group of people being discriminated against based on backwards logic and fear. THAT is what they share in common. So please everyone just stop with the "black people were beaten to death blah blah blah." We know. We're not saying the the gays have it worse now than the minorities in the 60's and 70's. That's just plain stupid. We're saying that they want same rights and equality, which is exactly what the civil rights movement was about. THAT they share in common.

I am sorry, but if you think gay marriage is a civil rights issue, you are missing the point.

I feel sorry for people like you.

Civil rights would imply more than 1. Not the case, also it is an issue of separation of church and state. I don't see anyone outraged by the fact thatIslamic marriages are not acknowledged.
You can feel sorry for me all you want, at-least I am no hypocrite.

We are all the ones making assumptions huh?...yet you assume I am not in favor of gay marriage. Not the case.

 

[paylessshoes]

I do not for one feel that any group of people have ever had to go through the sturggles the black culture endured until the late 60's. Now as an argument for this day and time we as blacks dont have much to stand on, since majority of us have wasted any opportunity that our grandparents, and ancestors had fought so hard for.
What are you talking about? As if when the 60's were over, we just went back inside our homes and listened to James Brown records? You soundlike an idiot. We've made no attempts to find equaliy since the late 60's? Black people have just been dancing in the street since 1968? and Howexactly do you lose laws and rights that were fought for during the civil rights era? Our treatment in America, is justified because we're not the same aswe were during the 1960's?

Thirdly, along with blacks, jews, gays, religions and other such minority groups we can shut up with the cry for equality argument. Yeah i know its not perfect and it probably never will be...but the more time we spend crying about it and not making moves to overcome it...the longer it will be a problem. We are at a time in thie country that we have to make a decision to stop focusing on what makes us different and focus on what makes us alike.
Yes we should accept that we will be 2nd class citizens for the rest of our lives. Makes perfect sense.Why fight for equality. All blacks do isjust complain without taking any action. Yes True

. Seems like youdon't understand racism.

I am a black man, living in america, so what do i know.

Obviously, nothing.

 

[basirwaahid]

Originally Posted by TheTrapezeSwinger

Sigh. Let me sum this up for all you on your soapbox. NO ONE is saying the atrocities minorities (including gays) had to endure before the civil rights movement is even close to what the gays are fighting for today, the right to marry. It's painstakingly obvious, so people please stop automatically assuming that. However it is clear that there is a certain group of people being discriminated against based on backwards logic and fear. THAT is what they share in common. So please everyone just stop with the "black people were beaten to death blah blah blah." We know. We're not saying the the gays have it worse now than the minorities in the 60's and 70's. That's just plain stupid. We're saying that they want same rights and equality, which is exactly what the civil rights movement was about. THAT they share in common as well.

Exactly, then why use the argument???? Come with something else. Everyone uses the injustice brought upon to Black People with the Struggle ofGay Rights or to be more specific, recognized by the Gov't that you're married. . .

 

[the jersey shirt]

Tkthegirl, thats all well and good, but regardless how does the fact that those who choose exist negate the struggle of those who do not? It'd be likesaying if you are a black person but your families roots don't go back to slavery and your family chose to come to america you shouldn't have any sayin what your races cival rights should be, because you chose to live within that existing social structure. That whole concept just goes entirely against helegislative text of this country, and while much of that text may have contradicted it self over the years, the whole reason it is continually amended is sothat the rights of the people of this country are brought back closer to its ideals, just on broader racial, sexual orientated, etc scales

and basir waahid naw you are pretty much wrong. Most people here AND kieth olberman are not comparing the ACTUAL struggles of black people and the WHOLE civalrights movement to all things gay. You however are trying to claim that all struggles black people went through have no relevance or comparability to ANYONEelses struggles in the world, and that simply is not true. Slaves and discrimated people have existed throughout history, it simply isn't a "blacksonly" plight. No one is debating that blacks had it bad through slavery, segregation, and even post segregated america, but you're basically playingthe part of the guy in the arguement between say a German jew and black american refusing to aknowledge the othersides struglles and turmoil

bottomline thier is an equal and EXACT comparison between the two groups. For a period of time blacks were not allowd to marry other blacks and even thenthereafter they were not allowed to marry whoever they chose of ANY race. That is the right gays are fighting for, an EXACT right black people fought for. Ifany person feels the need to acknowledge anything else BEYOND as a direct comparison from either side of the fence, gay or black, they are just over-steppingthe boundry of the issue, and hiding a deeper issue

as far as the people trying to say gays just want to marry for tax breaks ETC ETC, thats just a FALSE point. Because even if that was the case why would twopeople of different sexes have ANYMORE right to do that then a gay couple? Theres no way to prove they aren't marrying or those reasons, so how can youhinge those benefits on that concept? And then beyond that civil unions permitted to gay people offer the same benefits anyways and they are still fightingfor the right to marry, so what does that say?


One other major point I think is relevent is WHY are state governments even able to control ANYTHING at all aout this suposed religious practice? Whathappened to the seperation of church and state? Why are sttae governments allowed to control what one church will allow itsfollowers to do? It just seemslike a contradiction in general to me? if so many wanna argue that its a religious matter, then why are they then WILLINGLY bringing the state int the issue. If your church doesn't want to preform gay marriages thats fine, but what does that have to so with ANY other church?

 

[tkthegirl]

No where the hell did I say that? Are you adding more to my sentences or something?
I said both, both exist not one or the other, not one was more important, but both stories exist within the gay community. That's it.

 

[i r andre]

Originally Posted by PayLessShoes

I do not for one feel that any group of people have ever had to go through the sturggles the black culture endured until the late 60's. Now as an argument for this day and time we as blacks dont have much to stand on, since majority of us have wasted any opportunity that our grandparents, and ancestors had fought so hard for.

What are you talking about? As if when the 60's were over, we just went back inside our homes and listened to James Brown records? You sound like an idiot. We've made no attempts to find equaliy since the late 60's? Black people have just been dancing in the street since 1968? and How exactly do you lose laws and rights that were fought for during the civil rights era? Our treatment in America, is justified because we're not the same as we were during the 1960's?

Thirdly, along with blacks, jews, gays, religions and other such minority groups we can shut up with the cry for equality argument. Yeah i know its not perfect and it probably never will be...but the more time we spend crying about it and not making moves to overcome it...the longer it will be a problem. We are at a time in thie country that we have to make a decision to stop focusing on what makes us different and focus on what makes us alike.
Yes we should accept that we will be 2nd class citizens for the rest of our lives. Makes perfect sense.Why fight for equality. All blacks do is just complain without taking any action. Yes True

. Seems like you don't understand racism.

I am a black man, living in america, so what do i know.

Obviously, nothing.

sonned.

 

[yosoytupapa]

Originally Posted by PayLessShoes

I do not for one feel that any group of people have ever had to go through the sturggles the black culture endured until the late 60's. Now as an argument for this day and time we as blacks dont have much to stand on, since majority of us have wasted any opportunity that our grandparents, and ancestors had fought so hard for.

What are you talking about? As if when the 60's were over, we just went back inside our homes and listened to James Brown records? You sound like an idiot. We've made no attempts to find equaliy since the late 60's? Black people have just been dancing in the street since 1968? and How exactly do you lose laws and rights that were fought for during the civil rights era? Our treatment in America, is justified because we're not the same as we were during the 1960's?

Thirdly, along with blacks, jews, gays, religions and other such minority groups we can shut up with the cry for equality argument. Yeah i know its not perfect and it probably never will be...but the more time we spend crying about it and not making moves to overcome it...the longer it will be a problem. We are at a time in thie country that we have to make a decision to stop focusing on what makes us different and focus on what makes us alike.
Yes we should accept that we will be 2nd class citizens for the rest of our lives. Makes perfect sense.Why fight for equality. All blacks do is just complain without taking any action. Yes True

. Seems like you don't understand racism.

I am a black man, living in america, so what do i know.

Obviously, nothing.

Well after reading your rather sad attemt at sarcasim, i find it troubling that your whole counter argument is based on the premise that you"assume" i have no knowledge of rascism because i simply stated that we as minorities need to take more accountability. I am by no means saying thatall troubles and struggles ended in the sixties. That statement was made as a reference point. There has not been another time in history where we as blackhave come together for something meaningful since the civil rights movement (excluding the recent election). Our age group was passed the perverbial baton(sp)and we dropped it like the USA 4x1 team. It has to come a point where we do more than accept a second class citizenship and fight to be more. My argument wasbased on the fact that I feel that majority of us complain and sit back and wait for 40 acres and a mule. You my friend next time have a valid point and stopraising questions...cause that is all your response did. Now if you want answer i will be glad to give them to you.

 

[alchemiss]

This thread is still alive?

I'm almost 100% positive no one in hereis going to change their views (on either side)

 

[yosoytupapa]

Originally Posted by 23MCpizzle23

Originally Posted by YoSoyTuPapa

First and foremost majority of the post on this thread get a

. The comparision of the struggles of blacks to any race, gender, creed, group as a basis of an argument for compassion, is whack. I do not for one feel that any group of people have ever had to go through the sturggles the black culture endured until the late 60's. Now as an argument for this day and time we as blacks dont have much to stand on, since majority of us have wasted any opportunity that our grandparents, and ancestors had fought so hard for.
Secondly, the concept of gay marriage itself is funny to me, but i understand. IF you feel that the love you have for someone is do deep you want to spend the rest of your life with them, why do you need state approval. I think its funny that individual who have lived an alternative life style, without regards for others opinions, now want and seem to need that same approval. I can understand the argument of wanting it to be recognized for the purpose of adoption. (Which i am still struggling with that foster an opinion on that). Really a truly i dont know if it would be right or wrong for a child to grow up in a household of two gender familiar parents. But I do strongly believe that said child will be loved. I also understand the need for state recognition for the purpose of government mandated benefits. So on those two points I dont neccesarily agree with gay marriage but I can understand the need for such a thing. But for the simple premise of getting married to tell someone you are married...who gives a *##* be married, live together. You can buy a house as long as your credit is good, and you have money.
Thirdly, along with blacks, jews, gays, religions and other such minority groups we can shut up with the cry for equality argument. Yeah i know its not perfect and it probably never will be...but the more time we spend crying about it and not making moves to overcome it...the longer it will be a problem. We are at a time in this country that we have to make a decision to stop focusing on what makes us different and focus on what makes us alike. Thats just my take...but then again I am a black man, living in america, so what do i know.

With only reading part of what you wrote im discrediting the rest!! The people that fought for equality fought for all people to be equal; not just black, mexican etc. MLK said all men are created equal not just sr8 black!!!

And thus my point remains. Thanks

 

[paylessshoes]

Well after reading your rather sad attemt at sarcasim, i find it troubling that your whole counter argument is based on the premise that you "assume" i have no knowledge of rascism because i simply stated that we as minorities need to take more accountability. I am by no means saying that all troubles and struggles ended in the sixties. That statement was made as a reference point. There has not been another time in history where we as black have come together for something meaningful since the civil rights movement (excluding the recent election). Our age group was passed the perverbial baton(sp) and we dropped it like the USA 4x1 team. It has to come a point where we do more than accept a second class citizenship and fight to be more. My argument was based on the fact that I feel that majority of us complain and sit back and wait for 40 acres and a mule. You my friend next time have a valid point and stop raising questions...cause that is all your response did. Now if you want answer i will be glad to give them to you
My whole argument wasnt based on anything but your response. I do agree with the notion that Blacks havent come together on a wide movement likethe Civil Rights, and i wouldnt even include the election because that had nothing to do with Civil Rights. But you say that we havent done anything since thelate 60's, how did my generation drop the baton then? I would hope you don't believe what Bill Cosby said, because he was wrong.

I do not agree with the notion that all we do is sit back and complain. Maybe you live in an area where thats what you see, but half of Blacks are in themiddle class, so obviously their doing something to better themselves so that point doesnt make sense. I do feel that some do over claim the "white mankeeping me down" theory but there is acutal truth behind it, whether or not the person who says it can fully comprehend it. If you understood systematicracism, you would understand that racism is much much more than dogs and fire hoses being sprayed but i understand what you are saying and can agree to someextent.

 

[yosoytupapa]

Originally Posted by PayLessShoes

Well after reading your rather sad attemt at sarcasim, i find it troubling that your whole counter argument is based on the premise that you "assume" i have no knowledge of rascism because i simply stated that we as minorities need to take more accountability. I am by no means saying that all troubles and struggles ended in the sixties. That statement was made as a reference point. There has not been another time in history where we as black have come together for something meaningful since the civil rights movement (excluding the recent election). Our age group was passed the perverbial baton(sp) and we dropped it like the USA 4x1 team. It has to come a point where we do more than accept a second class citizenship and fight to be more. My argument was based on the fact that I feel that majority of us complain and sit back and wait for 40 acres and a mule. You my friend next time have a valid point and stop raising questions...cause that is all your response did. Now if you want answer i will be glad to give them to you

My whole argument wasnt based on anything but your response. I do agree with the notion that Blacks havent come together on a wide movement like the Civil Rights, and i wouldnt even include the election because that had nothing to do with Civil Rights. But you say that we havent done anything since the late 60's, how did my generation drop the baton then? I would hope you don't believe what Bill Cosby said, because he was wrong.

I do not agree with the notion that all we do is sit back and complain. Maybe you live in an area where thats what you see, but half of Blacks are in the middle class, so obviously their doing something to better themselves so that point doesnt make sense. I do feel that some do over claim the "white man keeping me down" theory but there is acutal truth behind it, whether or not the person who says it can fully comprehend it. If you understood systematic racism, you would understand that racism is much much more than dogs and fire hoses being sprayed but i understand what you are saying and can agree to some extent.

Very well stated and i agree with you...systematic racism is something that has to be addressed. The issue you bring up about middle class blacks is a goodone, but even some of them feel entitled to some level of justice or reperation. But we (and the children born in the 60's and 70's) dropped the batonbecause we failed at keeping unification, we let the white man outwit us by pouring drugs into our community and we passed that potion saying "this is theonly way i can come up" we dropped the baton because we, (not all), developed a sense of entitlement which led to us using welfare (i am a child ofwelfare) as a means to stay dormeant and not capitalize on opportunities. Now i do not for one second feel that all blacks are in fact lazy and sorry. But alot of us perpetuate steroetypes which are spread and gets us labled. The fight is no longer race, or sexual orientation. The fight is a social economic one.And the sooner we realize that the majority does not care about your race, or sexual orientation; all they care is how they can keep you poor and on your sideof the tracks. The better equipped we can become to fight for justice and equality.

 

[keepzdasneakz]

Originally Posted by Kicktionair

He broke it down like it's suppose to.

Really saddening how people ignore the history of our country.

It's depressing how ignorant PEOPLE are.

 

[tee eye ehm]

 

[keepzdasneakz]

Originally Posted by 23MCpizzle23

"WHY DOES THAT MATTER TO YOU" THATS WHAT I HAVE ASKED EVERYONE THAT VOTED YES STILL HAVE NOT HAD A GOOD ANSWER!!!!

It's because most of the people voting for it are probably in to protect the "sanctity" of marriage as stated by Olbermann. That was somethingthey were either told to do by a higher authoritative figure in their community or something they grew up with. In either case, it's hard for them to arguebecause it was never really a question of logic or selflessness in the first place.

 

[kwestmajik]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Hmmm not only wont this end well but it'll go at least 8 pages.

What's the lotto numbers?

Seriously though. Marriage is religious why is this going on?