Michael Jordan - How Quickly They Forget (MJ vs Lebron)

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vid appreciated

 

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vid appreciated

 

[sho3tym]

if you are a #1 seed, you are still a contender...

I think Lebron is the best player in the League right now, you're gettin it mixed up. Agreed the Cavs fell apart after he left, that was to be expected.

Mo went to an all star game.

I never said Mike did it alone. That doesn't mean Mike isn't better. Lebron has more in Wade that Jordan had in Pippen, in terms of where they rank league wise.

Lebron didn't choke alone last night, that whole squad did.

 

[sho3tym]

if you are a #1 seed, you are still a contender...

I think Lebron is the best player in the League right now, you're gettin it mixed up. Agreed the Cavs fell apart after he left, that was to be expected.

Mo went to an all star game.

I never said Mike did it alone. That doesn't mean Mike isn't better. Lebron has more in Wade that Jordan had in Pippen, in terms of where they rank league wise.

Lebron didn't choke alone last night, that whole squad did.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by sho3tym

if you are a #1 seed, you are still a contender...

I think Lebron is the best player in the League right now, you're gettin it mixed up. Agreed the Cavs fell apart after he left, that was to be expected.

Mo went to an all star game.

I never said Mike did it alone. That doesn't mean Mike isn't better. Lebron has more in Wade that Jordan had in Pippen, in terms of where they rank league wise.

Lebron didn't choke alone last night, that whole squad did.

I never said mike wasnt. what i said was that the cavs team who went to the 07 finals wasnt a legit team to win it all. This year is different is what i said, and with that being said we still cant say he failed in the finals when its only been 2 games. mo went to an allstar game but as we all no he aint a legit allstar like a top 50 and arguable best player at his position in pippen. That 07 cavs team was basura and everyone in their hearts of hearts knows this. If you telling me you or anybody was conflicted or put they money on the cavs over the spurs im calling out thats a lie.

And iuno if id put wade out there above my man pippen. But like i said this is his first realistic (thats a better term to use) chance to win. And im going to reserve judgement until its all said and done, and not say he sucks he can never be a champ cause they lost a game 2 in the finals by 2 points, being a first year team.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by sho3tym

if you are a #1 seed, you are still a contender...

I think Lebron is the best player in the League right now, you're gettin it mixed up. Agreed the Cavs fell apart after he left, that was to be expected.

Mo went to an all star game.

I never said Mike did it alone. That doesn't mean Mike isn't better. Lebron has more in Wade that Jordan had in Pippen, in terms of where they rank league wise.

Lebron didn't choke alone last night, that whole squad did.

I never said mike wasnt. what i said was that the cavs team who went to the 07 finals wasnt a legit team to win it all. This year is different is what i said, and with that being said we still cant say he failed in the finals when its only been 2 games. mo went to an allstar game but as we all no he aint a legit allstar like a top 50 and arguable best player at his position in pippen. That 07 cavs team was basura and everyone in their hearts of hearts knows this. If you telling me you or anybody was conflicted or put they money on the cavs over the spurs im calling out thats a lie.

And iuno if id put wade out there above my man pippen. But like i said this is his first realistic (thats a better term to use) chance to win. And im going to reserve judgement until its all said and done, and not say he sucks he can never be a champ cause they lost a game 2 in the finals by 2 points, being a first year team.

 

[sho3tym]

1) Cavs were a legit contender in '07, not like they lost in the first round.

2) Wade is largely believed to be top 5 in the league, correct? Would you consider Pippen to be top 5 player in the league during the 90s? I don't think I would.

3) I would guess people would have bet on the cavs in 07.

 

[sho3tym]

1) Cavs were a legit contender in '07, not like they lost in the first round.

2) Wade is largely believed to be top 5 in the league, correct? Would you consider Pippen to be top 5 player in the league during the 90s? I don't think I would.

3) I would guess people would have bet on the cavs in 07.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by sho3tym

1) Cavs were a legit contender in '07, not like they lost in the first round.

2) Wade is largely believed to be top 5 in the league, correct? Would you consider Pippen to be top 5 player in the league during the 90s? I don't think I would.

3) I would guess people would have bet on the cavs in 07.

   Come on man, if you say so. But we all know that was a team was a regular season team, just like the spurs were of this year. And this years spurs>07 cavs. Outside of ohio no one really thought the cavs were gonna be nba champs.

Also jordan was winning with pippen and he was to me a allstar top 5 player maybe top at the position he played, Matter fact pippen was in the 90's all decade team (you got me he was ranked 6, behind mj,akeem,barkley,malone, and drob) and rodman was a top 5 defender as well. I cannot say the same about bobbie, or mo, or gooden or larry hughes. or eric snow list goes on. Kukoc was a top tier player so was kerr/paxon as far as being shooters go. You cant sit here a honestly say that any player on that cavs team outside of lbj will be apart of the 00's all decade team 1st 2nd hell or even 3rd team.

And the spread that year was so one-sided i almost bet on the cavs just cause if they won they profit margin wouldve made me so so much money.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by sho3tym

1) Cavs were a legit contender in '07, not like they lost in the first round.

2) Wade is largely believed to be top 5 in the league, correct? Would you consider Pippen to be top 5 player in the league during the 90s? I don't think I would.

3) I would guess people would have bet on the cavs in 07.

   Come on man, if you say so. But we all know that was a team was a regular season team, just like the spurs were of this year. And this years spurs>07 cavs. Outside of ohio no one really thought the cavs were gonna be nba champs.

Also jordan was winning with pippen and he was to me a allstar top 5 player maybe top at the position he played, Matter fact pippen was in the 90's all decade team (you got me he was ranked 6, behind mj,akeem,barkley,malone, and drob) and rodman was a top 5 defender as well. I cannot say the same about bobbie, or mo, or gooden or larry hughes. or eric snow list goes on. Kukoc was a top tier player so was kerr/paxon as far as being shooters go. You cant sit here a honestly say that any player on that cavs team outside of lbj will be apart of the 00's all decade team 1st 2nd hell or even 3rd team.

And the spread that year was so one-sided i almost bet on the cavs just cause if they won they profit margin wouldve made me so so much money.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by LDJ

Originally Posted by sho3tym

Originally Posted by LDJ



but do you realize your comparing one players complete body of work vs a man who is just comming into his? Thats like me saying oh well durant isnt a great scorer because he only lead the league 4 yrs doing it and mj did it 10. If anything a true comparison would be after this series ends. cause if comparing the first 8 yrs of each player year, lbj has exceeded what jordan has done in every category, including individual and team accolades.

None of us knows what lbj will/wont accomplish, but it is certainly loopsided and bias to compare a player whose just starting to come into his career vs a player who is retired.

Also jordan didnt just come into the game with 6 final rings, it took TIME, and a winning team. This is lbjs 1st crack at it. Like i said when mj was going at it the first time the same criticizism lbj is getting mj got. But what happen jordan proved over the course of years the doubters wrong. He prove he was more then flashy moves, he showed he wouldnt buckle under pressure, he killed the noise of the sg aka shotless guard. As they called him. We just need to give these players time to put up or shut up, in the same respect jordan was given time to put up or shut up.

LDJ-not real sure on a lot of your logic throughout this post.

How can you say the Heat didn't choke last night?  If you want to call it complacency, I would argue that is choking.  Up 15 with four and a half minutes to go...c'mon you know they choked. 

LBJ's 2nd finals appearance, he was swept by the spurs the first time.

Simply saying that because Jordan passed to Kerr/Paxson/Hodges to knock down a shot isn't clutch is absurd.  So drawing a double and passing to a teammate can't be considered clutch?  This argument about him not being clutch because is passed occassionaly baffles me...

Im saying in the finals versus the lakers the EXACT same thing happened in game two as it did with the heat mavs series. Up 14, jordan dribbles around doesnt go in for the isolated drive and settles for a 15ft jumper and clanks it.

I never said jordan wasnt clutch. I was saying it was times where it was a mistake be it a gamble on a steal, a bad shot, which lead to another player being clutch saving the day. This of course was throughout the years, in which my point was lbj hasnt had years being on a championship caliber team.

The whole spurs argument is absurd because that was at a time lbj didnt have a championship caliber team. Thats like comparing 89 or 90 bulls. in which they where swept by the pistons and mj came short both of those years. Jordans 1st real chance/legitimate chance at a championship, he came through and proved the doubters wrong. But it really wasnt until the 4th game into that finals that he did it.

LeBron is only at two games into his first real legitimate chance at winning a finals (you cannot honestly think the cavs had a shot against the spurs). And out of the two games he only came short the last one. And even if he doesnt pull through, it still wont make him a choker. If i recall during the lakers 1st run, it was shaq who moreso then often or big shot rob who pulled the lakers through. Does that make kobe a choker? Of course it doesnt. Because he has been given time and with that time has proven he can be clutch, and place the team on his back and pull through with the wins.

All im saying is this lbj has had TWO games, not 6 series, not or 7/8 series like mj or kobe has had. If you have more opportunities just by mathematical and deduction you have more opportunities to be proven.
  

you have to be kidding me
it is widely known by any knowledgeable fan that the lakers always went to kobe in the clutch cause of shaq's terrible free throw shooting
Kobe bailed out the lakers way more than horry or fisher...who usually got a pass from a kobe created play

@ you saying players bailed jordan out
closet lebron stan

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by LDJ

Originally Posted by sho3tym

Originally Posted by LDJ



but do you realize your comparing one players complete body of work vs a man who is just comming into his? Thats like me saying oh well durant isnt a great scorer because he only lead the league 4 yrs doing it and mj did it 10. If anything a true comparison would be after this series ends. cause if comparing the first 8 yrs of each player year, lbj has exceeded what jordan has done in every category, including individual and team accolades.

None of us knows what lbj will/wont accomplish, but it is certainly loopsided and bias to compare a player whose just starting to come into his career vs a player who is retired.

Also jordan didnt just come into the game with 6 final rings, it took TIME, and a winning team. This is lbjs 1st crack at it. Like i said when mj was going at it the first time the same criticizism lbj is getting mj got. But what happen jordan proved over the course of years the doubters wrong. He prove he was more then flashy moves, he showed he wouldnt buckle under pressure, he killed the noise of the sg aka shotless guard. As they called him. We just need to give these players time to put up or shut up, in the same respect jordan was given time to put up or shut up.

LDJ-not real sure on a lot of your logic throughout this post.

How can you say the Heat didn't choke last night?  If you want to call it complacency, I would argue that is choking.  Up 15 with four and a half minutes to go...c'mon you know they choked. 

LBJ's 2nd finals appearance, he was swept by the spurs the first time.

Simply saying that because Jordan passed to Kerr/Paxson/Hodges to knock down a shot isn't clutch is absurd.  So drawing a double and passing to a teammate can't be considered clutch?  This argument about him not being clutch because is passed occassionaly baffles me...

Im saying in the finals versus the lakers the EXACT same thing happened in game two as it did with the heat mavs series. Up 14, jordan dribbles around doesnt go in for the isolated drive and settles for a 15ft jumper and clanks it.

I never said jordan wasnt clutch. I was saying it was times where it was a mistake be it a gamble on a steal, a bad shot, which lead to another player being clutch saving the day. This of course was throughout the years, in which my point was lbj hasnt had years being on a championship caliber team.

The whole spurs argument is absurd because that was at a time lbj didnt have a championship caliber team. Thats like comparing 89 or 90 bulls. in which they where swept by the pistons and mj came short both of those years. Jordans 1st real chance/legitimate chance at a championship, he came through and proved the doubters wrong. But it really wasnt until the 4th game into that finals that he did it.

LeBron is only at two games into his first real legitimate chance at winning a finals (you cannot honestly think the cavs had a shot against the spurs). And out of the two games he only came short the last one. And even if he doesnt pull through, it still wont make him a choker. If i recall during the lakers 1st run, it was shaq who moreso then often or big shot rob who pulled the lakers through. Does that make kobe a choker? Of course it doesnt. Because he has been given time and with that time has proven he can be clutch, and place the team on his back and pull through with the wins.

All im saying is this lbj has had TWO games, not 6 series, not or 7/8 series like mj or kobe has had. If you have more opportunities just by mathematical and deduction you have more opportunities to be proven.
  

you have to be kidding me
it is widely known by any knowledgeable fan that the lakers always went to kobe in the clutch cause of shaq's terrible free throw shooting
Kobe bailed out the lakers way more than horry or fisher...who usually got a pass from a kobe created play

@ you saying players bailed jordan out
closet lebron stan

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by LDJ

Originally Posted by sho3tym



LDJ-not real sure on a lot of your logic throughout this post.

How can you say the Heat didn't choke last night?  If you want to call it complacency, I would argue that is choking.  Up 15 with four and a half minutes to go...c'mon you know they choked. 

LBJ's 2nd finals appearance, he was swept by the spurs the first time.

Simply saying that because Jordan passed to Kerr/Paxson/Hodges to knock down a shot isn't clutch is absurd.  So drawing a double and passing to a teammate can't be considered clutch?  This argument about him not being clutch because is passed occassionaly baffles me...

Im saying in the finals versus the lakers the EXACT same thing happened in game two as it did with the heat mavs series. Up 14, jordan dribbles around doesnt go in for the isolated drive and settles for a 15ft jumper and clanks it.

I never said jordan wasnt clutch. I was saying it was times where it was a mistake be it a gamble on a steal, a bad shot, which lead to another player being clutch saving the day. This of course was throughout the years, in which my point was lbj hasnt had years being on a championship caliber team.

The whole spurs argument is absurd because that was at a time lbj didnt have a championship caliber team. Thats like comparing 89 or 90 bulls. in which they where swept by the pistons and mj came short both of those years. Jordans 1st real chance/legitimate chance at a championship, he came through and proved the doubters wrong. But it really wasnt until the 4th game into that finals that he did it.

LeBron is only at two games into his first real legitimate chance at winning a finals (you cannot honestly think the cavs had a shot against the spurs). And out of the two games he only came short the last one. And even if he doesnt pull through, it still wont make him a choker. If i recall during the lakers 1st run, it was shaq who moreso then often or big shot rob who pulled the lakers through. Does that make kobe a choker? Of course it doesnt. Because he has been given time and with that time has proven he can be clutch, and place the team on his back and pull through with the wins.

All im saying is this lbj has had TWO games, not 6 series, not or 7/8 series like mj or kobe has had. If you have more opportunities just by mathematical and deduction you have more opportunities to be proven.
  

you have to be kidding me
it is widely known by any knowledgeable fan that the lakers always went to kobe in the clutch cause of shaq's terrible free throw shooting
Kobe bailed out the lakers way more than horry or fisher...who usually got a pass from a kobe created play

@ you saying players bailed jordan out
closet lebron stan

Um ok so your one of those who ever made the most spectacular shot type of ppl i see. Um so lets disregard who was the mvp in all the lakers 3 championships. If it wasnt for shaq, well i see kobe fans so nevermind. For every cool move highlight reel basket kobe made, there was so many bad plays, bad shots he missed which put them in a situation where games were close. Kobe going off was a direct result for no answer for shaq. Proof thats why they lost to the pistons instead of feeding shaq the ball and involving other players he wanted to go all rogue and hero.


As far as jordan look at game 2 and three of the lakers series, not youtube clips not ustream highlights but the actually game. Also look at game 4 of the blazers series. And i didnt say anyone bailed jordan out i said their were errors mistakes he made which lead to those moments when he made a big play.

To me i dont really consider it being clutch if you do something that could cost your team the game only to make a spectacular play to make it up. Thats just a wash imo.


At kobe being the reason they won the first the chips. You do no they did hack a shaq to stop this man. i dont get why laker homers just make it seem like kobe wasnt this up and comming hot shot who as many times he made a key play he did something to cost the team. Was he good sure, but go back watch the games i mean really watch them. and tell me it wasnt shaq. I think yall are talking about game winning shots. Im talking about making key plays that lead to victories and/or change the shift/momentum of a game not buzzer beaters.

Its obvious thats what you guys are talking about seeing the only thing ppl are talking about are a certain move or films/videos with buzzer beaters.
    
Which championship do you feel kobe lead the lakers to victory, and if so why wasnt he named mvp? hell he wasnt even named player of the game for a good majority of them....

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by LDJ

Originally Posted by sho3tym



LDJ-not real sure on a lot of your logic throughout this post.

How can you say the Heat didn't choke last night?  If you want to call it complacency, I would argue that is choking.  Up 15 with four and a half minutes to go...c'mon you know they choked. 

LBJ's 2nd finals appearance, he was swept by the spurs the first time.

Simply saying that because Jordan passed to Kerr/Paxson/Hodges to knock down a shot isn't clutch is absurd.  So drawing a double and passing to a teammate can't be considered clutch?  This argument about him not being clutch because is passed occassionaly baffles me...

Im saying in the finals versus the lakers the EXACT same thing happened in game two as it did with the heat mavs series. Up 14, jordan dribbles around doesnt go in for the isolated drive and settles for a 15ft jumper and clanks it.

I never said jordan wasnt clutch. I was saying it was times where it was a mistake be it a gamble on a steal, a bad shot, which lead to another player being clutch saving the day. This of course was throughout the years, in which my point was lbj hasnt had years being on a championship caliber team.

The whole spurs argument is absurd because that was at a time lbj didnt have a championship caliber team. Thats like comparing 89 or 90 bulls. in which they where swept by the pistons and mj came short both of those years. Jordans 1st real chance/legitimate chance at a championship, he came through and proved the doubters wrong. But it really wasnt until the 4th game into that finals that he did it.

LeBron is only at two games into his first real legitimate chance at winning a finals (you cannot honestly think the cavs had a shot against the spurs). And out of the two games he only came short the last one. And even if he doesnt pull through, it still wont make him a choker. If i recall during the lakers 1st run, it was shaq who moreso then often or big shot rob who pulled the lakers through. Does that make kobe a choker? Of course it doesnt. Because he has been given time and with that time has proven he can be clutch, and place the team on his back and pull through with the wins.

All im saying is this lbj has had TWO games, not 6 series, not or 7/8 series like mj or kobe has had. If you have more opportunities just by mathematical and deduction you have more opportunities to be proven.
  

you have to be kidding me
it is widely known by any knowledgeable fan that the lakers always went to kobe in the clutch cause of shaq's terrible free throw shooting
Kobe bailed out the lakers way more than horry or fisher...who usually got a pass from a kobe created play

@ you saying players bailed jordan out
closet lebron stan

Um ok so your one of those who ever made the most spectacular shot type of ppl i see. Um so lets disregard who was the mvp in all the lakers 3 championships. If it wasnt for shaq, well i see kobe fans so nevermind. For every cool move highlight reel basket kobe made, there was so many bad plays, bad shots he missed which put them in a situation where games were close. Kobe going off was a direct result for no answer for shaq. Proof thats why they lost to the pistons instead of feeding shaq the ball and involving other players he wanted to go all rogue and hero.


As far as jordan look at game 2 and three of the lakers series, not youtube clips not ustream highlights but the actually game. Also look at game 4 of the blazers series. And i didnt say anyone bailed jordan out i said their were errors mistakes he made which lead to those moments when he made a big play.

To me i dont really consider it being clutch if you do something that could cost your team the game only to make a spectacular play to make it up. Thats just a wash imo.


At kobe being the reason they won the first the chips. You do no they did hack a shaq to stop this man. i dont get why laker homers just make it seem like kobe wasnt this up and comming hot shot who as many times he made a key play he did something to cost the team. Was he good sure, but go back watch the games i mean really watch them. and tell me it wasnt shaq. I think yall are talking about game winning shots. Im talking about making key plays that lead to victories and/or change the shift/momentum of a game not buzzer beaters.

Its obvious thats what you guys are talking about seeing the only thing ppl are talking about are a certain move or films/videos with buzzer beaters.
    
Which championship do you feel kobe lead the lakers to victory, and if so why wasnt he named mvp? hell he wasnt even named player of the game for a good majority of them....

 

[winged wheel]

I like how he didn't reply to me after I showed him the door with facts. You can't rationalize with a majority of sports fans because they're too emotional. What's more embarrassing is when you're wrong & loud.

 

[winged wheel]

I like how he didn't reply to me after I showed him the door with facts. You can't rationalize with a majority of sports fans because they're too emotional. What's more embarrassing is when you're wrong & loud.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

I like how he didn't reply to me after I showed him the door with facts. You can't rationalize with a majority of sports fans because they're too emotional. What's more embarrassing is when you're wrong & loud.

   Which of the 3peats did kobe lead them to. I didnt see any facts that you showed outside of ppl said this and that. And even that is false you can look use your google etc and it is widely known thats false. And as far as the jordan comment i said it was until that first victory against the lakers. before then jordan wasnt the most clutch player. ala like lbj wasnt in his first few yrs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_Finals Noted kobe was injuried and key clutch players were shaq horry glen rice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Finals kobe was shooting all time lows and had trouble guarding iverson, and clutch defense stops by tyronne lue, shaq stopping iverson drives, and and the game 76's won was due to shaq early foul trouble and the lakers unable to guard him
oh btw kobe shot close to 33% that series and even 27% in one of those games. And the hack a shaq backfired as he shot all time highs in free throws so try again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Finals Kobe did have a few clutch moments and took over dominated game 3, but hack a shaq was in play again and shaq was clutch hitting the remainder of his freethrows.



So um these are what i call facts, not highlights of a cool move or a cold-blooded shot in someone face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Finals

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

I like how he didn't reply to me after I showed him the door with facts. You can't rationalize with a majority of sports fans because they're too emotional. What's more embarrassing is when you're wrong & loud.

   Which of the 3peats did kobe lead them to. I didnt see any facts that you showed outside of ppl said this and that. And even that is false you can look use your google etc and it is widely known thats false. And as far as the jordan comment i said it was until that first victory against the lakers. before then jordan wasnt the most clutch player. ala like lbj wasnt in his first few yrs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_Finals Noted kobe was injuried and key clutch players were shaq horry glen rice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Finals kobe was shooting all time lows and had trouble guarding iverson, and clutch defense stops by tyronne lue, shaq stopping iverson drives, and and the game 76's won was due to shaq early foul trouble and the lakers unable to guard him
oh btw kobe shot close to 33% that series and even 27% in one of those games. And the hack a shaq backfired as he shot all time highs in free throws so try again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Finals Kobe did have a few clutch moments and took over dominated game 3, but hack a shaq was in play again and shaq was clutch hitting the remainder of his freethrows.



So um these are what i call facts, not highlights of a cool move or a cold-blooded shot in someone face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Finals

 

[prostaffer]

from wikipedia doesn't count

 

[prostaffer]

from wikipedia doesn't count

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Prostaffer

from wikipedia doesn't count

Lol good one........... recaps and transcripts from each game arent facts evidence, but memories from folks who were probably a young teen or a lil kid, and complilations of highlights tell they story of a full game... right gotcha.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Prostaffer

from wikipedia doesn't count

Lol good one........... recaps and transcripts from each game arent facts evidence, but memories from folks who were probably a young teen or a lil kid, and complilations of highlights tell they story of a full game... right gotcha.

 

[winged wheel]

LDJ, I wasn't discussing Kobe nor the Lakers. Go back to the previous page and read what you & I were talking about.

 

[winged wheel]

LDJ, I wasn't discussing Kobe nor the Lakers. Go back to the previous page and read what you & I were talking about.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by LDJ

Originally Posted by knightngale

Originally Posted by LDJ


Im saying in the finals versus the lakers the EXACT same thing happened in game two as it did with the heat mavs series. Up 14, jordan dribbles around doesnt go in for the isolated drive and settles for a 15ft jumper and clanks it.

I never said jordan wasnt clutch. I was saying it was times where it was a mistake be it a gamble on a steal, a bad shot, which lead to another player being clutch saving the day. This of course was throughout the years, in which my point was lbj hasnt had years being on a championship caliber team.

The whole spurs argument is absurd because that was at a time lbj didnt have a championship caliber team. Thats like comparing 89 or 90 bulls. in which they where swept by the pistons and mj came short both of those years. Jordans 1st real chance/legitimate chance at a championship, he came through and proved the doubters wrong. But it really wasnt until the 4th game into that finals that he did it.

LeBron is only at two games into his first real legitimate chance at winning a finals (you cannot honestly think the cavs had a shot against the spurs). And out of the two games he only came short the last one. And even if he doesnt pull through, it still wont make him a choker. If i recall during the lakers 1st run, it was shaq who moreso then often or big shot rob who pulled the lakers through. Does that make kobe a choker? Of course it doesnt. Because he has been given time and with that time has proven he can be clutch, and place the team on his back and pull through with the wins.

All im saying is this lbj has had TWO games, not 6 series, not or 7/8 series like mj or kobe has had. If you have more opportunities just by mathematical and deduction you have more opportunities to be proven.
  

you have to be kidding me
it is widely known by any knowledgeable fan that the lakers always went to kobe in the clutch cause of shaq's terrible free throw shooting
Kobe bailed out the lakers way more than horry or fisher...who usually got a pass from a kobe created play

@ you saying players bailed jordan out
closet lebron stan

Um ok so your one of those who ever made the most spectacular shot type of ppl i see. Um so lets disregard who was the mvp in all the lakers 3 championships. If it wasnt for shaq, well i see kobe fans so nevermind. For every cool move highlight reel basket kobe made, there was so many bad plays, bad shots he missed which put them in a situation where games were close. Kobe going off was a direct result for no answer for shaq. Proof thats why they lost to the pistons instead of feeding shaq the ball and involving other players he wanted to go all rogue and hero.


As far as jordan look at game 2 and three of the lakers series, not youtube clips not ustream highlights but the actually game. Also look at game 4 of the blazers series. And i didnt say anyone bailed jordan out i said their were errors mistakes he made which lead to those moments when he made a big play.

To me i dont really consider it being clutch if you do something that could cost your team the game only to make a spectacular play to make it up. Thats just a wash imo.


At kobe being the reason they won the first the chips. You do no they did hack a shaq to stop this man. i dont get why laker homers just make it seem like kobe wasnt this up and comming hot shot who as many times he made a key play he did something to cost the team. Was he good sure, but go back watch the games i mean really watch them. and tell me it wasnt shaq. I think yall are talking about game winning shots. Im talking about making key plays that lead to victories and/or change the shift/momentum of a game not buzzer beaters.

Its obvious thats what you guys are talking about seeing the only thing ppl are talking about are a certain move or films/videos with buzzer beaters.
    
Which championship do you feel kobe lead the lakers to victory, and if so why wasnt he named mvp? hell he wasnt even named player of the game for a good majority of them....

BAILING THEM OUT IS DIFFERENT THAN CARRYING A TEAM.

SHAQ CARRIED THE TEAM FOR MOST OF OF THE GAMES BUT KOBE FINISHED THEM. THA'S A FACT.

We are talking about clutch plays and choking. Kobe  getting it done in the final minutes will never net him an mvp as long as shaq is putting in work most of the game.

Kobe was the best player during entire series at times like when the lakers swept the Spurs in 2001. It is clear you do not know what you are talking about.