New York Yankees Official Thread - vs Twins; 42-19 - Cole rehab start

How can u say it's not a thing when everyday you're reading about someone getting "cancelled" . Doesn't matter if a group did it or 1 anonymous person the reasoning for doing it is all the same.

It's become a game now as soon as someone gets hot or starts doing some positive things u get people digging just to ruin their lives.

Don't say its not a thing bro, when u got guys apologizing for repeating rap lyrics when they were 17 cause they're scared of losing everything they worked their life for. It is for sure a thing nowadays ...
 
onewearz said:
How can u say it's not a thing when everyday you're reading about someone getting "cancelled" . Doesn't matter if a group did it or 1 anonymous person the reasoning for doing it is all the same.

It's become a game now as soon as someone gets hot or starts doing some positive things u get people digging just to ruin their lives.

Don't say its not a thing bro, when u got guys apologizing for repeating rap lyrics when they were 17 cause they're scared of losing everything they worked their life for. It is for sure a thing nowadays ...
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It's not "cancel culture." bc that's just a term right wing media came up with to excuse their gross things. It's consequences for your actions. That's been around since the beginning of time. It's different now that words and thoughts are preserved on the internet and brought up later but "cancel culture" is no different now than it was in 1982. Do dumb ****, deal with the consequences.

Bringing up stuff like this is dumb though. We agree there.
 
we’ll just have to agree to disagree on catchers. The gap between a bad defensive catcher and the 5th best defensive catcher isn’t big. Nor has it ever been.

We could go on and on about how little of an impact it has nowadays.

Does it have some impact? Sure.
So does taking a strike down the pipe 0-0.

But in reality anybody who isn’t a generational catching talent which is few and far between. A good defensive catcher and a bad defensive catcher is a small margin. Counteract it with basically having a pitcher batting, and it’s a different.

But the last I’ll say, is you Can’t really argue that the catcher matters, then be a top 5 staff, and then rail against how bad Gary is on defense. When they were a top 5 staff with Gary. Can’t have it all ways.
 
essential1 said:
we’ll just have to agree to disagree on catchers. The gap between a bad defensive catcher and the 5th best defensive catcher isn’t big. Nor has it ever been.

We could go on and on about how little of an impact it has nowadays.

Does it have some impact? Sure.
So does taking a strike down the pipe 0-0.

But in reality anybody who isn’t a generational catching talent which is few and far between. A good defensive catcher and a bad defensive catcher is a small margin. Counteract it with basically having a pitcher batting, and it’s a different.

But the last I’ll say, is you Can’t really argue that the catcher matters, then be a top 5 staff, and then rail against how bad Gary is on defense. When they were a top 5 staff with Gary. Can’t have it all ways.
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The smartest people in baseball have all disagreed with you for 100 years. Catcher is historically the worst hitting position for a reason, bc their defense > their offense. Shortstop is next on that list. Saying the gap between the worst and best is laughable.

Numbers don't lie. The staff put up GOAT numbers to Higgy last year and average to Sanchez. The numbers you’re quoting were carried by innings to Higgy, who caught 40% of the innings.

  • Yankees pitchers have a 1.78 ERA (108 IP, 21 ER) with Higashioka catching and a 3.92 ERA (151.2 IP, 66 ER) when Sanchez is receiving.
 
I think Cole would say catcher is pretty important.

Here’s Cole’s drastically-different numbers with each catcher since the start of 2020:

  • Higashioka: 1.06 ERA, 59.1 IP, 88 K, 9 starts.
  • Sanchez: 3.86 ERA, 51.1 IP, 68 K, 9 starts.
 
Kluber was the same way. Weird trend.

Kluber, who got off to a slow start with Sanchez catching three of his first four starts and then got hot with Higashioka. He has a 1.93 ERA in three starts with Higashioka, 4.91 ERA in three with Sanchez.
 
Cole was better with Gary in 2021 than he was with Higgy.
Also Cole is worse with Higgy this year than he would have ever been with Gary.

The difference in splits in 2021 as a staff is like .059 ERA and .035 OPS. A decent percentage was from Chapman’s nuclear month where he couldn’t throw a strike and when he did, it was in the seats. It accounts for 1/4 of the ERA difference and I believe I calculated close to half the OPS difference. Gary caught all but one of those Chapman meltdowns. And I wouldn’t put that on any one but Chapman because that was an unreal stretch of ****.

Doesn’t matter, he’s not on the team. My argument has nothing to do with Gary. It’s that caring who is behind the plate is significantly less important than who that person is at the plate. Who cares what the position is traditionally. Tradition doesn’t matter.

But all of this will always be anecdotal. You’re seeing it in front of your face this year with Higgy, more a guy catches the higher those numbers go up. As Trevino gets more daily games, his numbers will likely go up as well.
Pitching talent > whoever the hell the catcher is. Because we can go through some Pudge years in Texas, and he’s a what top 3 all time defensive catcher and there’s a bunch of years that him being behind the plate meant nothing because of what the pitchers were capable of throwing.
 
essential1 said:
Cole was better with Gary in 2021 than he was with Higgy.
Also Cole is worse with Higgy this year than he would have ever been with Gary.

The difference in splits in 2021 as a staff is like .059 ERA and .035 OPS. A decent percentage was from Chapman’s nuclear month where he couldn’t throw a strike and when he did, it was in the seats. It accounts for 1/4 of the ERA difference and I believe I calculated close to half the OPS difference. Gary caught all but one of those Chapman meltdowns. And I wouldn’t put that on any one but Chapman because that was an unreal stretch of ****.

Doesn’t matter, he’s not on the team. My argument has nothing to do with Gary. It’s that caring who is behind the plate is significantly less important than who that person is at the plate. Who cares what the position is traditionally. Tradition doesn’t matter.

But all of this will always be anecdotal. You’re seeing it in front of your face this year with Higgy, more a guy catches the higher those numbers go up. As Trevino gets more daily games, his numbers will likely go up as well.
Pitching talent > whoever the hell the catcher is. Because we can go through some Pudge years in Texas, and he’s a what top 3 all time defensive catcher and there’s a bunch of years that him being behind the plate meant nothing because of what the pitchers were capable of throwing.
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A great catcher can't make a terrible pitcher a good pitcher but he can damn sure make a good pitcher better. There's 100+ years of managers, gm's, and stat needs agreeing that defense > offense at catcher unless it's an elite bat at catcher like a Piazza or Posada. Sanchez ain't that. I get that you're a Sanchez stan, so you disregard defense bc he sucks at it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the most important defensive position on the field. His defense was able to be looked past when he was an elite hitter, but he's just not that these days. The fact that he's caught less than half the games in Minnesota should tell you something. They are rolling with Ryan Jeffers and his .621 OPS and letting Sanchez DH.
 
Nope even if it’s not Sanchez. We could be talking about any player who is even around average at hitting at catcher. I believed it a decade ago.. Will do so a decade from now. Will believe it two decades from now.
Sacrificing 600 PAs for marginal at best return from the catcher and that’s if we’re talking about the best of the best is dumb.

It’s not smart, it never will be smart. I’d take someone who hits 20% worse than Gary, and is the same defensive catcher as Gary and it would still even out as positive overall in comparison to Trevino and Higgy.


Back to actual Yankee talk. I hope Gleyber is back on the murder Baltimore train because that was fun times.
 
essential1 said:
Nope even if it’s not Sanchez. We could be talking about any player who is even around average at hitting at catcher. I believed it a decade ago.. Will do so a decade from now. Will believe it two decades from now.
Sacrificing 600 PAs for marginal at best return from the catcher and that’s if we’re talking about the best of the best is dumb.

It’s not smart, it never will be smart. I’d take someone who hits 20% worse than Gary, and is the same defensive catcher as Gary and it would still even out as positive overall in comparison to Trevino and Higgy.


Back to actual Yankee talk. I hope Gleyber is back on the murder Baltimore train because that was fun times.
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Gary hit 186, 147 and 204 in 3 out of the last 5 years and you’d take 20% worse than that if they were the same defensive catcher as Gary?!?
 
donewithjs said:
Gary hit 186, 147 and 204 in 3 out of the last 5 years and you’d take 20% worse than that if they were the same defensive catcher as Gary?!?
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That’s how bad Trevino and Higgy are on offense so far this year.
And how little defense matters in that position.

Going moreso by OPS+ as a catch all stat. Quantifying hitters in any other way as 20% better or worse percentage wise is tough.
 
essential1 said:
Nope even if it’s not Sanchez. We could be talking about any player who is even around average at hitting at catcher. I believed it a decade ago.. Will do so a decade from now. Will believe it two decades from now.
Sacrificing 600 PAs for marginal at best return from the catcher and that’s if we’re talking about the best of the best is dumb.

It’s not smart, it never will be smart. I’d take someone who hits 20% worse than Gary, and is the same defensive catcher as Gary and it would still even out as positive overall in comparison to Trevino and Higgy.


Back to actual Yankee talk. I hope Gleyber is back on the murder Baltimore train because that was fun times.
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I mean you can dig your heels in and think you're smarter than every person paid to build and coach clubs if you want to. The people getting paid played Higgy and Jeffers over Gary.

Agree on Gleyber. He's showing signs of driving the ball so that's positive.
 
So if they are hitting worse than Gary but the Staff is pitching better I’d take the staff pitching better solely of off pitching in the playoffs is what’s going to win 99/100 times and we have the hitters to hide their offensive deficiency. Also the locker room/cohesiveness plays a huge part in winning and Gary doesn’t seem like the type that gels.
 
The run the team has been recently has been very GOODT! especially with that rocky start to open the season.

That said I don't care that much what they do during the season, postseason is where they have to finally break through.
 
Catcher should & I think eventually will be addressed but I'm also not sure a midseason trade is the best idea. Really tough for a catcher to learn a pitching staff, let alone in the middle of a season. CF is the other pretty glaring need.

All that being said, it's hard to really be critical of a team that is 28-9.
 
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