Nike x OFF-WHITE Collection Thread - Rest In Peace Virgil Abloh

Off-White x Nike Blazer Mid “All Hallows Eve”
Color: Canvas/Pale Vanilla/Black-Total Orange
Style Code: AA3832-700
Release Date: Fall 2018
Price: $130
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Bloody O
 
I rarely post here but think this is worth talking about. I will be brief- I think it’s highly likely that StockX manipulates prices. Someone this week here mentioned it is a “transparent marketplace”. That made me laugh. It’s anything but. You don’t know who your buyer or seller is, unlike eBay, where you ship to a real, live human being.

What I think is happening is StockX has ultimate knowledge of where supply and demand is (they see the bids and asks) and can play around with transactions to suit their needs. How? Well let’s take the bizarre price action of the OW AJ1 university blue as an example. They see how much “demand” there is. They can, themselves, hit the ask on the shoes when they believe the price on their market doesn’t reflect true demand. Heck, they can make the bids low, not show all bids, do whatever. They can then buy the AJ1, hold a bunch in inventory, then manipulate prices to have bids and asks creep higher, then sell this inventory at higher prices. I know this is happening, they are not being transparent with whether the buyer or seller is an actual person and not them. They have NEVER answered the question of “do they go into their own market and buy and sell inventory”.

This happens in the stock market- a “market maker” which sits between the bids and the asks often holds inventory of stock to be able to make a market. Ultimately StockX, as market maker, is in the business to just get volume, and take their 10% cut. But along the way they have more info than we do as towhere true bids and asks are, and they can act accordingly by buying on their own account. This is a huge advantage that we do not have and they can profit greatly from it.

There is absolutely no reason why the AJ1 or black prestos OW should jump 200 bucks (30%+) in a matter of days. The sneaker market is not that liquid, it does not move on “news”, it’s not like we learned that supply is dead or there is a glut in the market.

Yes, overall, the way the deadstock shoe market should work is that OVER TIME, shoes should always rise in value if no restocks occur, as more shoes are un-DS and supply naturally shrinks. And yes, shoes should move on “news” of a restock, like the yeezy wave runner restocking (the damn thing should actually dip to retail right now, Adidas is all about moving units at this stage in the Yeezy life cycle unlike 2 yrs ago, so I’m sure the 700 will be plentiful next month).

I’m sorry to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but StockX is totally not transparent in how it operates, if they were, they’d at least put a seller initials and timestamp near their bids asks and past trades. And we all know the past trades are bs data that comes from who knows where. I’ve personally sold multiples of a certain shoe and size and their data never reflects it properly.

So let’s not pretend the sudden jump in some OW pricing is “magic”. StockX has the power, ability and shadiness to manipulate its marketplace. They are incentivized- 1) long term getting prices higher means more commissions and 2) actually making money on holding and releasing shoes on their own account lets them benefit both from that upside and the round trip fees.

More questions need to be asked of StockX and I truly believe an FTC investigation on being a fake “marketplace”. The josh luber Q&A on reddit was a complete joke, dumb questions and even dumber answers.

Thoughts?
 
The owners of stock x are not manipulating the market lol they don’t care about having inventory of all these sneakers. There are so many shoes bought and sold every day on those apps so the money stock x makes is ridiculous compared to them holding and investing in hype/limited shoes.
 
Fashion/sneakers/hype is growing every year so that’s why it seems like sneakers in some way have turned into a market/commodity (some shoes)

Some people care so much about their fits/shoes and what others think of them that they are willing to pay these asking prices for these items.
 
I skimmed that wall of text and didn’t see a hint of evidence, so it’s just the same baseless conspiracy theories. It wouldn’t make business sense for them to ruin their current amazing business model, so until I see evidence I’m not wasting my time entertaining it.
 
James Beam III said:
I rarely post here but think this is worth talking about. I will be brief- I think it’s highly likely that StockX manipulates prices. Someone this week here mentioned it is a “transparent marketplace”. That made me laugh. It’s anything but. You don’t know who your buyer or seller is, unlike eBay, where you ship to a real, live human being.

What I think is happening is StockX has ultimate knowledge of where supply and demand is (they see the bids and asks) and can play around with transactions to suit their needs. How? Well let’s take the bizarre price action of the OW AJ1 university blue as an example. They see how much “demand” there is. They can, themselves, hit the ask on the shoes when they believe the price on their market doesn’t reflect true demand. Heck, they can make the bids low, not show all bids, do whatever. They can then buy the AJ1, hold a bunch in inventory, then manipulate prices to have bids and asks creep higher, then sell this inventory at higher prices. I know this is happening, they are not being transparent with whether the buyer or seller is an actual person and not them. They have NEVER answered the question of “do they go into their own market and buy and sell inventory”.

This happens in the stock market- a “market maker” which sits between the bids and the asks often holds inventory of stock to be able to make a market. Ultimately StockX, as market maker, is in the business to just get volume, and take their 10% cut. But along the way they have more info than we do as towhere true bids and asks are, and they can act accordingly by buying on their own account. This is a huge advantage that we do not have and they can profit greatly from it.

There is absolutely no reason why the AJ1 or black prestos OW should jump 200 bucks (30%+) in a matter of days. The sneaker market is not that liquid, it does not move on “news”, it’s not like we learned that supply is dead or there is a glut in the market.

Yes, overall, the way the deadstock shoe market should work is that OVER TIME, shoes should always rise in value if no restocks occur, as more shoes are un-DS and supply naturally shrinks. And yes, shoes should move on “news” of a restock, like the yeezy wave runner restocking (the damn thing should actually dip to retail right now, Adidas is all about moving units at this stage in the Yeezy life cycle unlike 2 yrs ago, so I’m sure the 700 will be plentiful next month).

I’m sorry to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but StockX is totally not transparent in how it operates, if they were, they’d at least put a seller initials and timestamp near their bids asks and past trades. And we all know the past trades are bs data that comes from who knows where. I’ve personally sold multiples of a certain shoe and size and their data never reflects it properly.

So let’s not pretend the sudden jump in some OW pricing is “magic”. StockX has the power, ability and shadiness to manipulate its marketplace. They are incentivized- 1) long term getting prices higher means more commissions and 2) actually making money on holding and releasing shoes on their own account lets them benefit both from that upside and the round trip fees.

More questions need to be asked of StockX and I truly believe an FTC investigation on being a fake “marketplace”. The josh luber Q&A on reddit was a complete joke, dumb questions and even dumber answers.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Although, I agree with what you're saying as I thought this in the past.
I have a couple questions. Is StockX bigger than GOAT? I know goat doesn't show bids/asks but I am pretty sure on hype releases there are multiple asks being placed above the low price.

If stockx is manipulating prices would that change prices on GOAT? I do have questions on the liquidity of the market. If buyer's will move over to goat and try and arb... who knows. I thought it wouldn't be worth the time to arb for pennies but I don't know anything about the shoe resale market.

Prices were increasing on both stockx and goat for the Prestos. I was trying to cop a pair and they both were increasing around the same time.

I do agree with Lucky13s - that it's not worth it.

EDIT - OR They both can try and provide liquidity to the market by buying up pairs while increasing prices.
 
Last edited:
joseph8764 said:
The owners of stock x are not manipulating the market lol they don’t care about having inventory of all these sneakers. There are so many shoes bought and sold every day on those apps so the money stock x makes is ridiculous compared to them holding and investing in hype/limited shoes.
Click to expand...
This is not really an answer. “They don’t care about having inventory”? They care about shoes moving and shoes going up in value. That’s how they maximize fees. of course they do care. I’m not saying they are collecting OW for fun, I’m saying they see which shoes are hot, see directionally where they are going from a supply demand perspective, and can pounce.

Why are Travis Scott AJ4 suddenly rising by 50 bucks or more? Why are H2H AJ1, an almost GR, suddenly rising? No reason other than StockX influence.

In the pre StockX days on eBay, prices were all over the place, but didn’t randomly “jump”
 
Lucky13s said:
I skimmed that wall of text and didn’t see a hint of evidence, so it’s just the same baseless conspiracy theories. It wouldn’t make business sense for them to ruin their current amazing business model, so until I see evidence I’m not wasting my time entertaining it.
Click to expand...
My evidence is the following:
- Bizarre increases in prices of certain shoes that can only happen w coordination
-StockX is not transparent with respect to buyer and seller
- StockX reported prices don’t reflect reality
- StockX often cancels sales for bizarre “there was fraud” reasons
- StockX has rare shoes on display at HQ, runs contests on shoes, etc, anectdotal evidence that they have to go in their own market to have shoes

Stop being naive. They can do things to influence volatility, which spurs more buys and sells, can make sales happen where bids and ask spreads wouldn’t get there and can manipulate this market in a multitude of ways.
 
lamichaeljames2 said:
Although, I agree with what you're saying as I thought this in the past.
I have a couple questions. Is StockX bigger than GOAT? I know goat doesn't show bids/asks but I am pretty sure on hype releases there are multiple asks being placed above the low price.

If stockx is manipulating prices would that change prices on GOAT? I do have questions on the liquidity of the market. If buyer's will move over to goat and try and arb... who knows. I thought it wouldn't be worth the time to arb for pennies but I don't know anything about the shoe resale market.

Prices were increasing on both stockx and goat for the Prestos. I was trying to cop a pair and they both were increasing around the same time.

I do agree with Lucky13s - that it's not worth it.
Click to expand...
They are not public so don’t know which is bigger, but Goat has raised more money and be merger w flight club makes them more sizeable. There is rarely a way to arb StockX and goat, there shouldn’t be, if buyers and sellers are acting rationally. Often I see minute differences in pricing that reflect 1) goat has higher fees 2) goat buyers seem less price sensitive, more unsophisticated and more “trusting” of the “authentication “ and willing to pay slight premium to “not have to worry”. Goat has celebrity publicists and managers buying on the app, I know this as fact. They’re willing to pay more to worry less.
 
James Beam III said:
My evidence is the following:
- Bizarre increases in prices of certain shoes that can only happen w coordination
-StockX is not transparent with respect to buyer and seller
- StockX reported prices don’t reflect reality
- StockX often cancels sales for bizarre “there was fraud” reasons
- StockX has rare shoes on display at HQ, runs contests on shoes, etc, anectdotal evidence that they have to go in their own market to have shoes

Stop being naive. They can do things to influence volatility, which spurs more buys and sells, can make sales happen where bids and ask spreads wouldn’t get there and can manipulate this market in a multitude of ways.
Click to expand...

None of that is evidence. Your last point is the closest thing to evidence, and it's flimsy at best.
 
TLDR- I think StockX is a sham from a pricing perspective, it’s a convenient marketplace, but it is opaque and can be manipulated by them, there is no evidence to suggest that it isn’t. Not even talking about their authentication, just the price movements, as they have perfect information and we do not. Josh luber has never commented on any of this.
 
James Beam III said:
Explain to me why OW shoes suddenly rise by 50%?
Click to expand...


James Beam III: there is no evidence to suggest that it isn’t (being manipulated)

That's not how it works, at all. You don't get to state a conspiracy with almost zero evidence and then go "prove that I'm wrong." The burden is on you to prove your claims are true, period.

Explain to me why OW shoes suddenly rise by 50%?

Supply and demand. Besides, which OW rose by 50%? The Original Ten has risen between 100% and 400% and there were various instances of "sudden rises". If you followed the OG 10 at all, none of this should be surprising.

The black Prestos and UNCs have recently gone up 10 to 25%. This isn't unprecedented.

By the way, prices went up on all platforms. Prestos in my size are over $1k at Flight Club now.
 
The prices fluctuations/volatility does increase transactions because you get the FOMO and the price sensitive buyer's butttttttt how do you coordinate with other market places? that's really the question because equilibrium was reached between Goat and Stockx prices within a 3-5 minute period.
 
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