NT: Why isn't Wilt considered the greatest?

[japanair21]

If all the Centers in the League other than Yao and Dwight were 6'9'', they'd have a field day.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[JAYxSF415]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

If all the Centers in the League other than Yao and Dwight were 6'9'', they'd have a field day.

That's all I'm saying.

Not true at all. Ben Wallace is 6'9 and has locked down centers in the past back in his Detroit days.

 

[holdenmichael]

MJ is the greatest because he led his team
to SIX championships plus he has a higher career scoring average anyway


Do you really believe that Wilt wouldn't have a much higher career scoring average than MJ had he had he not chosen to score less? I understandthat injuries played a role, but clearly he was healthy enough to stand there and grab rebounds so, I'm sure he could have hit a few more shots a game hadhe chosen to take shots instead of passing the ball. It's no different than Oscar Robertson saying that if he knew triple-doubles were going to be soimportant, he would have done it more often.

... the average center back then was 6'5


More like 6'9" the year he averaged 50PPG and probably a little taller later in his career.


Wilt isn't considered the greatest because he didn't lead his team to rings and his stats were inflated by the play and rules of the era he played in.Neither of those facts take away from his greatness, but they're obviously the reason he isn't the standard. Maybe his teammates sucked or weren'tgood enough, he didn't know how to lead, or he didn't play defense well enough. Who knows?

Regardless, it's not like NTers are the only people that don't have Wilt in their "top 3" of all-time, let alone the top of the list soit's not like we should feel bad about it.


That year Wilt averaged 50 PPG? He also average 39.5 FGAs and 17 FTAs per game. That makes it less impressive to me.

 

[calibeebee]

damn! 55 rebounds in 1 game! In 1 damn game?!

 

[jordan 23 lives]

The game was alot different.

Wilt is by far one of the best ever. No questions. Best center to ever play the game!

Kobe is no where near MJ. Kobe will never win 6 titles. MJ's era had much better competition. Kobe isn't even considered the best Now-a-days.
Mj not only revolutionized the game, he also revolutionized the culture around it.

My top 3
MJ>wilt>oscar

LBJ can move in the top 3 if he wins a few championships..esp with the team he has now...

.... and if his numbers remain the same(pts/rbds/assists)

 

[japanair21]

Wilt is no doubt in my Top Five, but there are so many REALLY GREAT centers that I have a hard time putting any one of them above the other.

The top five: Lew, Shaq, Wilt, Dream, Russell. Admiral is borderline, but that topic has already been brought up.

 

[shatterkneesinc]

the real question is why isnt moses malone considered to be one of the greatest centers of all time.

every time we have this centers discussion, moses never gets mentioned

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

The top five: Lew, Shaq, Wilt, Dream, Russell.

That top 5 is probably the most unarguable top 5 list in all of sports. You can't really put one above another, but you have to put all ofthem on the list.

Lew: scorer, rings
Russell: defense, rings
Hakeem: defense, rings
Wilt: overall offensive/defensive dominance, rings
Shaq: offense, plus took three franchises to the finals, four rings

 

[xtapolapacetl]

He IS considered the greatest by many.. Not by me though.. Mainly because the game was so different back then, it just wouldn't be fair to say that Wiltaveraged 50 & 26, no one else ever did, therefore Wilt > ___ And it's flat out annoying when people just post his numbers as a reason to whyhe's the greatest. What exactly does that say? "Sorry Hakeem, you can't be the greatest. You didn't average 50 and 26 in the 90s." Areyou actually going to judge someone for not averaging that many points in modern basketball. Here are some of my reasons as to why I think he isn't theGOAT:

No center that was even somewhat good, at least in the early 60s came close to matching him physically. Wilt was 7'1. Bill Russell was 6'9. Bob Pettitwas 6'9. 6'9 was a completely normal height for a center back then, whereas in modern basketball it would be a bigger small forward or a small powerforward. The one quality player who came the closest was Walt Bellamy, who was 6'11. Bellamy was a rookie the season when Wilt averaged 50 & 26, and heaveraged 32 and 19, both career high averages. As a rookie. How often does that happen? There was clearly something wrong with that season, where stats forsome players were insane. That was also the season where Oscar averaged a triple double and the 6'5 Elgin Baylor averaged 19 rebounds.

He took 39.5 shots per game the year he averaged 50. Shaq's CAREER HIGH shots taken in a game is 40. Hakeem's is 40 as well. David Robinson's is41. Think about that for a second. Furthermore, he played 48.5 minutes per game, mostly due to the fact that he never got into foul trouble. Now, I know thatcertain players are smarter than others when it comes to staying out of foul trouble, but to average 1.5 fouls in 48.5 minutes like Wilt did just doesn'tsound right. There is no way you can average that few fouls in so much playing time, especially as a center, no way.

The 3 second area was smaller in Wilt's days, at least in the seasons where he put up 40-50 ppg:

Can you imagine a 1999-2002 Shaq being able to plant himself just outside of that yellow area and constantly feed him the ball in the post to a point where heshoots 40 times a game? Plus have him play the entire game because he wasn't in foul trouble? Well, I don't know if he could play the entire game, buthe could definitely have played 44-45 minutes per. Shaq would easily break the 50 ppg barrier. I don't know about 27 rebounds though, but no doubt he wouldaverage many more rebounds as well.

Wilt's career FT% is lower than Shaq's.

Every single season of his 14-season career, his playoff PPG was lower than his regular season PPG.

I don't want to say that all players sucked back then, but there is no doubt that you can't compare the league back then to the league now in terms ofoverall talent. The worst players post 1980s are much, MUCH better than the worst players then. Furthermore, the star gap wasn't nowhere near as big. Thetop 10% of the league were miles ahead of the bottom 90% in Wilt's days. The stars had the league to themselves.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

The top five: Lew, Shaq, Wilt, Dream, Russell.

That top 5 is probably the most unarguable top 5 list in all of sports. You can't really put one above another, but you have to put all of them on the list.

Lew: scorer, rings
Russell: defense, rings
Hakeem: defense, rings
Wilt: overall offensive/defensive dominance, rings
Shaq: offense, plus took three franchises to the finals, four rings

Hakeem was far from only "defense", as his 26.5 career playoff ppg (the highest for any center ever) suggests. Along with Kareem, he is the mostskilled offensive center ever.

 

[prettyplaya]

lew is the greatest center. his defense was just as good as his offense.
has 6 mvp's 2 finals mvp, 6rings, scoring leader. he's the greatest center.

 

[f3djam]

Anyone know how Wilt played?

Did he have any moves, or just yam it on dudes heads?

 

[255forlife]

fadeaways, fingerrolls.. he wasn't just your typical back to the basket center.


rules were changed to slow him down.. these days rules are changed to help guards score more.


wilt is definitely underrated by most these days.


i forgot the name, but there was this guy considered to be an enforcer at the time.. going after wilt's teammate. wilt just picked him up and told him,"we're not having any of that."


and for what it's worth, it was him telling the story, not wilt.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

The average S&T NT'er doesn't know enough history and doesn't have enough perspective totruly make a reasonable discussion about this. Most of the guys in here are in their early 20's or teenagers, you got dudes asking if Kenny Anderson wasreally great in H.S. and how was Penny Hardaways game "back in the days"

, you really expect for a clear and properperspective about the legacy of Wilt's career? That's NOT even laughable, that's impossible.

 

[skillz]

There was no offensive interference so he could just grab off the rim and dunk it

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by lakersmets49ers

because bill russell made wilt his personal girlfriend come playoff time year in year out.

/thread

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Generational biased. The same way someone will pull up Jordan's stats 70 years from now and ask the same question

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Because MJ gets Sara Jay'ed like no other.

 

[maxelite]

Originally Posted by dreClark

Because MJ gets Sara Jay'ed like no other.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

1. Wilt played against Kareem when he was 36 with bad knees and STILL put in work and blocked his "unblockable" sky hook.

2. I have always been of the opinion that you can't really definitively crown any body the goat because each NBA era is so different, Wilt, Oscar, Elgin,and Jordan have has much claim to the goat tittle as anyone else, there is NO definitive GOAT.



Like I said before take the advanced training staffs and state of the art equipment that NBA players have access today combine that one with one of the mostathletic HUMAN BEINGS of all time, add that on to 7 foot 1, 46 inch vert beast of man. If Dwight Howard can average 20 and 14 with no real offense to speak ofI think Wilt does 35+.

 

[nycknicks105]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

The average S&T NT'er doesn't know enough history and doesn't have enough perspective to truly make a reasonable discussion about this. Most of the guys in here are in their early 20's or teenagers, you got dudes asking if Kenny Anderson was really great in H.S. and how was Penny Hardaways game "back in the days"

, you really expect for a clear and proper perspective about the legacy of Wilt's career? That's NOT even laughable, that's impossible.

 

[trasoul82]

Because he came before the information age. It's like asking "who would win in a 1-on-1 fight in their prime: Maximus or Royce Gracie?"

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

He IS considered the greatest by many.. Not by me though.. Mainly because the game was so different back then, it just wouldn't be fair to say that Wilt averaged 50 & 26, no one else ever did, therefore Wilt > ___ And it's flat out annoying when people just post his numbers as a reason to why he's the greatest. What exactly does that say? "Sorry Hakeem, you can't be the greatest. You didn't average 50 and 26 in the 90s." Are you actually going to judge someone for not averaging that many points in modern basketball. Here are some of my reasons as to why I think he isn't the GOAT:

No center that was even somewhat good, at least in the early 60s came close to matching him physically. Wilt was 7'1. Bill Russell was 6'9. Bob Pettit was 6'9. 6'9 was a completely normal height for a center back then, whereas in modern basketball it would be a bigger small forward or a small power forward. The one quality player who came the closest was Walt Bellamy, who was 6'11. Bellamy was a rookie the season when Wilt averaged 50 & 26, and he averaged 32 and 19, both career high averages. As a rookie. How often does that happen? There was clearly something wrong with that season, where stats for some players were insane. That was also the season where Oscar averaged a triple double and the 6'5 Elgin Baylor averaged 19 rebounds.

He took 39.5 shots per game the year he averaged 50. Shaq's CAREER HIGH shots taken in a game is 40. Hakeem's is 40 as well. David Robinson's is 41. Think about that for a second. Furthermore, he played 48.5 minutes per game, mostly due to the fact that he never got into foul trouble. Now, I know that certain players are smarter than others when it comes to staying out of foul trouble, but to average 1.5 fouls in 48.5 minutes like Wilt did just doesn't sound right. There is no way you can average that few fouls in so much playing time, especially as a center, no way.

The 3 second area was smaller in Wilt's days, at least in the seasons where he put up 40-50 ppg:

Can you imagine a 1999-2002 Shaq being able to plant himself just outside of that yellow area and constantly feed him the ball in the post to a point where he shoots 40 times a game? Plus have him play the entire game because he wasn't in foul trouble? Well, I don't know if he could play the entire game, but he could definitely have played 44-45 minutes per. Shaq would easily break the 50 ppg barrier. I don't know about 27 rebounds though, but no doubt he would average many more rebounds as well.

Wilt's career FT% is lower than Shaq's.

Every single season of his 14-season career, his playoff PPG was lower than his regular season PPG.

I don't want to say that all players sucked back then, but there is no doubt that you can't compare the league back then to the league now in terms of overall talent. The worst players post 1980s are much, MUCH better than the worst players then. Furthermore, the star gap wasn't nowhere near as big. The top 10% of the league were miles ahead of the bottom 90% in Wilt's days. The stars had the league to themselves.

thank you.

Wilt was a great player, no doubt... but his stats absolutely have to be taken into context. \

 

[theyoungestgun]

so based on the players he played and the opportunities he got you're gonna discard those numbers? or you're gonna put an * on his stats?

 

[drunken cow]

Originally Posted by TheYoungestGun

why is that? didnt wilt average 50 points per game for one season>? dont you think that kobe is gonna break more of jordans scoring records? i know for some people on NT jordan is GOD, but you cant ignore the fact that kobe is scoring more points than jordan.. and that he is an offensive juggernaut that no one can stop.

Lol, points? Tyler Hansborough holds the most scored points at NC, should he be considered the best to ever play at NC?
Your point is stupid. Btw, just for giggles, Kobe cant even stop Lebron.