***Official Political Discussion Thread***

@Methodical Management

Thank you for your very thoughtful and through reply.

Just to clarify a few things:


- I consider Goldwater and 1964 to be the starting point of the "modern conservative movement." I, personally, see a a sudden decline of explicit racial epithets from the 1960's up to present day. Even Donald Trump doesn't dare say the "n word" in public. I know that Andrew Jackson called himself a man of the law but, for the most part, politicians in 19th Century and the first half of the 20th Century had no compunctions about using racial slurs and they explicitly positioned themselves as defenders of the white race.

In short, I take Lee Atwater at his unguarded word on language and conservative politics. However, you have done a lot more scholarship on race and politics so feel free to correct me.
The history of racism in our society is one of constant adaptation.  There's no question that what is socially permissible today is different from the Reconstruction Era, but my point is that the concept of the "dog whistle" is not, itself, a new development.

Racism has long been veiled in such a way as to soothe the conscience of those who benefit from and perpetuate it.  It's not a matter of racial animus, Trump will tell you, it's about "public safety."  It's not a matter of racial animus, Teddy Roosevelt would tell you, it's about "preserving the races."  It's not a matter of racial animus, the Southern slaveholder would tell you, "it's for their own good."  

I suppose the difference in interpretation could vary depending on what you consider the utility of the dog whistle.  Who, in other words, is the coded language supposed to fool?  Does anyone truly believe that using phrases like "law and order" functions like spelling out a word or phrase that you don't want a child or domestic pet to overhear?  In other words, does "dog whistle racism" enable Whites to formulate or announce racist plans in broad daylight in a way that is somehow supposed to be inaudible or incomprehensible to people of color?  Hardly. 

I would argue that the dog whistle serves less to conceal racism from its targets than it does to conceal racism from the racist.  In other words, coded language serves to format racism in a way that is broadly acceptable to society at large. 

As Thomas Ross wrote in his outstanding essay, Innocence and Affirmative Action
“The dominant public ideology has become nonracist. Use of racial epithets, expressions of genetic superiority, and avowal of formal segregation are not part of the mainstream of public discourse. These ways of speaking, which were part of the public discourse several decades ago, are deemed by most today as irrational utterances emanating from the few remaining pockets of racism. Notwithstanding that the public ideology has become nonracist, the culture continues to teach racism. Racial stereotypes pervade our media and language, both reflecting and influencing the complex set of individual and collective choices that make our schools, our neighborhoods, our workplaces, and our lives racially segregated.”  
Dog whistles are, in a sense, the lies that racists must internalize in order to live with themselves, in the way that jailers, soldiers, and slaughterhouse workers must somehow normalize, justify, and inure themselves to unconscionable brutality.  

Functionally, there's little difference between "law and order" on the macro level and "it was him or me" for the likes of Darren Wilson.  

In this way, the ostensibly "race neutral" dog whistle serves as both a call to action and a lullaby. 

To the overt racist, the dog whistle may seem like racism served with a wink and a nod.  To the "subconscious" racist, it is both the invocation of prejudice, and the liberation of that prejudice from the forbidden realm of overt racism.

As Ross explains, 
“Racism today paradoxically is both ‘irrational and normal.’ Racism is at once inconsistent with the dominant public ideology and is embraced by each of us, albeit at the unconscious level. This paradox of irrationality and normalcy is part of the reason for racism’s unconscious nature. When our culture teaches us to be racist and our ideology teaches us that racism is evil, we respond by excluding the forbidden lesson from consciousness.” 
The whole of society has been conditioned by the racist stereotypes embedded into our national culture.  

This speaks to your point:
I find dog whistles to be terrifying. Obviously the weaker dog whistles are ineffective because they are easier to recognize. It seems like the powerful dog whistles are, by definition, the ones that we cannot easily recognize, the ones that worm their way into our subconscious mind.

The writs against the "inner city" are obvious but when Barack Obama is lecturing young black men, who are graduating from prep school, about the importance of personal responsibility, I feel like indirect racist language and racist assumptions have wrought a great deal of damage. When black comedians have black audiences laughing at jokes, whose whole premise is that gaudy hub caps account for racial wealth gaps, it just seems like, damn, the white supremacists spammed us all with coded language and a few of them managed to infect us down to our collective marrow.

I've been stung by it before and it is like surviving a highly venomous bite, the fervid hallucinations at the time all seem so real. The great meritocracy seemed so real once.
We can't afford to underestimate just how tightly stereotypes have intermingled with national/cultural ideals.  

This is, without question, true of the myth of the egalitarian meritocracy, the accompanying Horatio Alger/bootstrap myth, and in countless other narratives of virtue.  

Just take, for example, Paul Ryan's response to Donald Trump's boasts of sexual assault:  "women are to be championed and revered, not objectified."  That statement, bereft of shame or self-awareness, itself objectifies women.  Yet this is considered "chivalry."  

Mass incarceration is presented as virtuous.  Slavery was presented as benevolent.  Heterosexism is framed as protecting "family values."  Sexism is paternalistically framed as "protective." 

We are, in some ways, menaced by a nation of self-styled heroes out to save themselves from the "other", and to save those of us so "othered" from ourselves.  (Sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity, respectively.) 

The actual dog whistle itself is the tip of the iceberg.  It's the underlying culture that must be treated and reformed.  The first step is to question and subject the culture and its assumptions to a critical lens. 

And that is work that, I hope, can be in some small way furthered by constructive inter-group dialog.  

We all have different experiences and perspectives to share, and there's much to gain through their reconciliation.  
 
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^^ nice post, who knows if these people will ever learn. Too busy chasing boogeymen to stop and put themselves in someone else's shoes.
 
It's funny I had this drafted late last night in response to amel mentioning unaware racists

growing up, most people are taught racism is bad/socially unacceptable.

Glad Meth put it better than I could have :lol:

Basically cognitive dissonance leads to their lack of awareness of their racism. They're taught they shouldn't be racist so in order to internalize it they have to figure out how to be racist and benefit from/preserve privilege while maintaining harmony with their beliefs of right and wrong.
 
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Nah, he's probably another "independent", 100% objective and someone who is completely free and doesn't affiliate with either side.
Yes and the things dude said in the video isn't entirely true because those things were talked about in this thread and news. Dude just cherry picks anything to try and formulate a "reasonable" response
 

How about you respond to meth's thoughtful posts on racism and share your views and possible counterpoints?

People respond to ninja all the time.
 
^^ nice post, who knows if these people will ever learn. Too busy chasing boogeymen to stop and put themselves in someone else's shoes.

Funny how well this applies to the Right. Turn on the news outlets that cater to them, and it's nothing but fearmongering, villifying the opposition, and whataboutism. It is funny to read stuff like what I'm replying to knowing that republicans would've been in a much better position today if they had compromised with the Obama administration. How's that repeal going?
 
Funny how well this applies to the Right. Turn on the news outlets that cater to them, and it's nothing but fearmongering, villifying the opposition, and whataboutism. It is funny to read stuff like what I'm replying to knowing that republicans would've been in a much better position today if they had compromised with the Obama administration. How's that repeal going?
The hypocrisy in his post is laughable
 
Be honest, do you know what hyperbole even is? Cause you keep using it out of context. Just because a word has the same definition of another doesn't mean you can just plug it in all the time.
 
Bruh

Republicans are about to get WASHED in midterms.:lol:

They did too much with Trump.

Now the entire country is paying attention to politics?

No amount of voter restriction is going to overcome the washing these cats are going to endure.

I'm hoping a candidate steps up and calls out everybody. I'd vote for that person in a heartbeat

You're underestimating the Republican Party if you actually believe this. Conservatives have been working in the shadows for decades with district line drawing and gerrymandering. They have strategically designed their guaranteed victory. They aren't losing the House or the Senate going forward. Sprinkle in their voter suppression tactics and they aren't losing the White House either. We would need voter turnout of epic proportions to clear them out and I just don't see that happening. People are truly uninformed of how these rats have burrowed their way into their positions. They make sure once they're in, they're not leaving. We need to put strict limit terms on Senators and Congress members, that's our only real hope to break the cycle that we're currently in; that or completely wipeout gerrymandering.

All of the protests you see are coming from areas that voted against Trump, if we held elections today for President; he'd still win the electorate vote. If this resistance can really maintain momentum for the next four years, maybe just maybe the voters who didn't turnout in this last election will make the difference. The cynicism inside me just doesn't see that happening though.
 
This is why I try to avoid lumping all Trump supporters as racist.
I am tired of this ****. Trump has racist policies and has said racist ****, if you voted for him and claim to not  be racist you are either 1. An idiot or 2. A closeted racist or 3. An open racist who just doesn't like the label or 4. An open white supremacist. 

:lol:

this is why Trump won.

and apparently, some of ya should've paid better attention to da electorate.



this gay Democrat with that ether :x :lol:


Convenient lies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/hillary-clinton-working-class/509477/

In the days after her shocking loss, Democrats complained that Clinton had no jobs agenda. A widely shared essay in The Nation blamed Clinton's "neoliberalism" for abandoning the voters who swung the election. “I come from the white working class,” Bernie Sanders said on CBS This Morning, “and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from.”

But here is the troubling reality for civically minded liberals looking to justify their preferred strategies: Hillary Clinton talked about the working class, middle-class jobs, and the dignity of work constantly. And she still lost.

She detailed plans to help coal miners and steel workers. She had decades of ideas to help parents, particularly working moms, and their children. She had plans to help young men who were getting out of prison and old men who were getting into new careers. She talked about the dignity of manufacturing jobs, the promise of clean-energy jobs, and the Obama administration’s record of creating private-sector jobs for a record-breaking number of consecutive months. She said the word “job” more in the Democratic National Convention speech than Trump did in the RNC acceptance speech; she mentioned the word “jobs” more during the first presidential debate than Trump did. She offered the most comprehensively progressive economic platform of any presidential candidate in history—one specifically tailored to an economy powered by an educated workforce.


What’s more, the evidence that Clinton lost because of the nation’s economic disenchantment is extremely mixed. Some economists found that Trump won in counties affected by trade with China. But among the 52 percent of voters who said economics was the most important issue in the election, Clinton beat Trump by double digits. In the vast majority of swing states, voters said they preferred Clinton on the economy. If the 2016 election had come down to economics exclusively, the working class—which, by any reasonable definition, includes the black, Hispanic, and Asian working classes, too—would have elected Hillary Clinton president.

The more frightening possibility for liberals is that Clinton didn’t lose because the white working class failed to hear her message, but precisely because they did hear it.

Trump’s white voters do support the mommy state, but only so long as it’s mothering them.
 
Be honest, do you know what hyperbole even is? Cause you keep using it out of context.

hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/Submit
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric
; informalpurple prose, puffery
"the media hyperbole that accompanied their championship series"

like I said...clear hyperbole.

maybe there is come hope for Democrats if they veer back to da center.
 

That last part...

giphy.gif
 
But Da Rust Belt was hurting so badly that they didn't have a choice.

take your smug liberal hat off and put your pragmatic Democratic strategist hat on.

you've now lost all of congress, and da White House, a key constituency, da blue collar white working class as abandoned your party....2018 looks like another Democratic loss, what are you doing to win them back and take back control?
 
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Read the entire article. If you read the newspapers during the campaign, you knew that she addressed jobs and the need for a trained local workforce. If your source of info was infowars, fox, cnn, msnbc (TV in general), the only topics you heard were rotating around Trump. He blanketed the 24hr news networks, facebook, and political blogs with his presence. Clinton misjudged, got down in the mud with him, and drowned out her message. Trump won because he successfully turned political news networks into political TMZ.
 
This is why I don't read anything ninja posts :lol:

I just wait for the response and learn. Thank you ninja for being the necessary evil of spurring debate and bringing up intelligent counterpoints. Sometimes people overdo it though with the attention they give him, but the lulz and knowledge are worth it.
 
^^ nice post, who knows if these people will ever learn. Too busy chasing boogeymen to stop and put themselves in someone else's shoes.

Funny how well this applies to the Right. Turn on the news outlets that cater to them, and it's nothing but fearmongering, villifying the opposition, and whataboutism. It is funny to read stuff like what I'm replying to knowing that republicans would've been in a much better position today if they had compromised with the Obama administration. How's that repeal going?

The Right Wing:

1. Wear suit and slick hair
2. Do nothing but fear monger of boogeymen
3. ?????
4. Profit
 
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Read the entire article. If you read the newspapers during the campaign, you knew that she addressed jobs and the need for a trained local workforce. If your source of info was infowars, fox, cnn, msnbc (TV in general), the only topics you heard were rotating around Trump. He blanketed the 24hr news networks, facebook, and political blogs with his presence. Clinton misjudged, got down in the mud with him, and drowned out her message. Trump won because he successfully turned political news networks into political TMZ.

I read the article. I knew Hillary did address the concerns of that "disenfranchised" group. Didn't know that more of them actually voted for her or thought she was better for the economy. Guess my suspicions were correct and in the end identity politics were the deciding factor. Anybody with common sense knows the GOP doesn't care about the working class.

Just like you got that beady eyed Paul Ryan talking about finally a president that cares about unborn lives, yet once they're actually living they do everything in their power to cut the legs out from under those same lives.
 
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This is why I don't read anything ninja posts :lol:

sounds like "taking my ball & going home" to me :lol:

you rather give more credence to a columnist at da Atlantic than a DNC Democrat that actual got skin in da game. :lol:

trench in ya bunkers all days....I'm sure that's winning strategy.
 
But Da Rust Belt was hurting so badly that they didn't have a choice.

take your smug liberal hat off and put your pragmatic Democratic strategist hat on.

you've now lost all of congress, and da White House, a key constituency, da blue collar white working class as abandoned your party....2018 looks like another Democratic loss, what are you doing to win them back and take back control?

Republicans are still trying to push the death panel narrative, even as gram gram and her friends are getting hip to what is actually in Obamacare in between their bingo sessions. Mainstream Christian republicans are waking up to the evil that is their platform; when they touch the unions, those hard-hat wearing folks who voted Trump will not stand for that. All the Democrat party has to do is oppose in unison. Republicans know they are between a rock and a hard place.

Lies, they catch up to you.
 
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