***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RIP sleazyy]

I'd like to hear from other informed people on their thoughts for tax cuts on the rich. It's always been a scam to me

how is keeping more of da money you make a scam?

When you present it as a better way to stimulate the economy that demand side spending, yes, it definitely is a scam.

You want to argue that people should keep more of their tax dollars, fine. But don't pedal that it is so great for the economy.

And if we are talking about tax cuts for the rich, then the rich should be willing to have austerity imposed on them, not the middle class.

Own business
Get rich
Buy politicians
Have politicians you own secretly help create and push tax loopholes and laws that benefit you
Convince poor Americans these plans will benefit them
Profit

Scam - dishonest scheme or fraud
Fraud - wrongful deception intended to produce personal or financial gain

 

[Based Jesus]

GETTING RID OF NAFTA WILL CLEARLY FIX THIS!

I might be wrong on these and I know I'm missing some things so feel free to chime in but I believe these things have led to the demise of manufacturing in America.

1. The G.I. Bill:

We see a spike in manufacturing during the 1940s due to WW2. The war machine was operating well. Obviously afterwards the numbers would come back down.

But they keep decreasing. Why? I propose that the first reason is free education. Millions who had served in WW2 were coming back and some were going to college.

The same for Korea (Where we again see a small spike) and Vietnam. Many of these people were working, or were most likely going to work, in manufacturing positions before going off to war.

Instead, after coming back, they took the opportunity to receive higher education and entered, or re-entered, the workforce doing something more "white collar".

2. Outsourcing:

The most obvious cause on this list. Once Americans no longer had to compete with mostly each other for jobs and instead had to compete with the vast workforce outside of our borders we didn't stand a chance. Companies knew they owed nothing to their employees and existed to maximize profits and started doing just that. People abroad would work for less, in worse conditions. RIP manufacturing in America.

3. The growth of the finance and tech industry:

This one I admit might be a case of correlation != causation but the growth of both industries is in conjunction with the decline of manufacturing in the US. Which kinda makes sense since there's more money in both. For the finance industry it started with the mishandling of the regulation of the industry leading to what I believe to be regulatory capture. Essentially the inmates running the asylum. And they're making MONEY. Reaching a point where they've become giants whose shadow extends across the whole world. Dramatic I know, but not wrong. If you run a company, and you can use money to personally make more money, while outsourcing or automating the manufacturing of your product, cutting costs and putting even more in your pocket, why not? If you don't care about Jan on the line who has worked for you for 15 years and is a single mom, fire her ***, pay Lei in china a percentage of what she made, or just make R2D2 do it, and invest the difference. Everybody wins but Jan. Best part is Jan wont even really blame you. She'll blame Lei in China, Jorge in Texas and Jermaine in Harlem.

As for Tech if you're an entrepreneur who wants to start a company and you see how large tech is and what it can do for you personally you'll start a tech company.

Look at AirBnB. It's pretty much the world's largest hotel chain....with no real estate. Uber and Lyft werent out here buying taxi cabs to start up their car service. Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, billions. With relatively little capital needed to start them. Why bother with the costs of starting a manufacturing company when some 19 year old can start one in his room, in his free time with a mac and an internet connection? Especially when the profits can be so damn large? Tech is the future. Manufacturing is the past. Which leads to the 4th point.

4. Automation:

This one doesn't require much of an explanation. It's pretty self-explanatory. This x Outsourcing is a 2 hit combo no one is getting up from within a 10 count.

Again, don't hesitate to chime in. Feel free to smarten this **** up

​ or point out where I was wrong or missing something.

 

[sfc415]

Manufacturing in the US has been dead for DECADES. If you have had access to adequate education and haven't adapted by now, that's all on you (referring to the Midwestern and Southern hicks crying about these non existent jobs 24/7)

 

[frshstunna]

GETTING RID OF NAFTA WILL CLEARLY FIX THIS!

I might be wrong on these and I know I'm missing some things so feel free to chime in but I believe these things have led to the demise of manufacturing in America.

1. The G.I. Bill:

We see a spike in manufacturing during the 1940s due to WW2. The war machine was operating well. Obviously afterwards the numbers would come back down.
But they keep decreasing. Why? I propose that the first reason is free education. Millions who had served in WW2 were coming back and some were going to college.
The same for Korea (Where we again see a small spike) and Vietnam. Many of these people were working, or were most likely going to work, in manufacturing positions before going off to war.
Instead, after coming back, they took the opportunity to receive higher education and entered, or re-entered, the workforce doing something more "white collar".

2. Outsourcing:

The most obvious cause on this list. Once Americans no longer had to compete with mostly each other for jobs and instead had to compete with the vast workforce outside of our borders we didn't stand a chance. Companies knew they owed nothing to their employees and existed to maximize profits and started doing just that. People abroad would work for less, in worse conditions. RIP manufacturing in America.

3. The growth of the finance and tech industry:

This one I admit might be a case of correlation != causation but the growth of both industries is in conjunction with the decline of manufacturing in the US. Which kinda makes sense since there's more money in both. For the finance industry it started with the mishandling of the regulation of the industry leading to what I believe to be regulatory capture. Essentially the inmates running the asylum. And they're making MONEY. Reaching a point where they've become giants whose shadow extends across the whole world. Dramatic I know, but not wrong. If you run a company, and you can use money to personally make more money, while outsourcing or automating the manufacturing of your product, cutting costs and putting even more in your pocket, why not? If you don't care about Jan on the line who has worked for you for 15 years and is a single mom, fire her ***, pay Lei in china a percentage of what she made, or just make R2D2 do it, and invest the difference. Everybody wins but Jan. Best part is Jan wont even really blame you. She'll blame Lei in China, Jorge in Texas and Jermaine in Harlem.

As for Tech if you're an entrepreneur who wants to start a company and you see how large tech is and what it can do for you personally you'll start a tech company.
Look at AirBnB. It's pretty much the world's largest hotel chain....with no real estate. Uber and Lyft werent out here buying taxi cabs to start up their car service. Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, billions. With relatively little capital needed to start them. Why bother with the costs of starting a manufacturing company when some 19 year old can start one in his room, in his free time with a mac and an internet connection? Especially when the profits can be so damn large? Tech is the future. Manufacturing is the past. Which leads to the 4th point.

4. Automation:

This one doesn't require much of an explanation. It's pretty self-explanatory. This x Outsourcing is a 2 hit combo no one is getting up from within a 10 count.


Again, don't hesitate to chime in. Feel free to smarten this **** up ​ or point out where I was wrong or missing something.

All good and valid reasons you brought up...I know in my city (Baltimore) it was heavy in the manufacturing and factory work but they all left town due to going somewhere cheaper or some business just straight up folded...Now our economy is service/education/healthcare oriented, ppl here understood that those factory jobs NEVER coming back and adjusted for the most part...sad and stupid to see there are places that legit believe these type of jobs are coming back and been sitting round waiting all this time

 

[sundoobie]

Not as informed but the way I see it, if you make more, your tax rate should be higher, you're going to write things off to lower your income anyway.

Alternative Minimum Tax comes into play here. Most deductions are limited or completely phased out if your adjusted gross income is over a certain amount, and AMT makes sure every taxpayer regardless of deductions pay a minimum amount of tax to the Feds.

 

[EddieDoyers]

Not as informed but the way I see it, if you make more, your tax rate should be higher, you're going to write things off to lower your income anyway.

Alternative Minimum Tax comes into play here. Most deductions are limited or completely phased out if your adjusted gross income is over a certain amount, and AMT makes sure every taxpayer regardless of deductions pay a minimum amount of tax to the Feds.

LOL GOP is gonna put that on the chopping block

 

[biggie62]

But that's why wealthy individuals start piling money into capital investments because the tax rates are lower. Or better yet tax exempt munis. It's why Romney had a 20% tax rate when he released his returns. Partially this does some good because they purchase munis so cities and counties can financial projects. I'm all for keeping munis the way they are as they bring a greater good. But in general, once one gets over a certain income threshold capital gains should go back to your income tax rate. Also social security and Medicare contributions should be raised. This will help fund both. This is what baffles a lot of people when I talk to them at work. How I'm willing to pay taxes and even more if it means it. I'm like, I'm better off than most, those coming up should be given some better conditions. Growing up in 90s NYC has made me see and experience things that can't be unseen. I know the struggle with my own background. I'm in a privledged state through hard work. But I'm selfish as I know that situations are never black and white and I can't just look down at people not working hard enough. This is what many right wing people can't understand. To them it's only black and white.

 

[dathbgboy]

That's the problem w/ a lot of these place, the residents swear the jobs are coming back because they tend to isolate themselves from learning and their elected officials sell them pipe dreams.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'd like to hear from other informed people on their thoughts for tax cuts on the rich. It's always been a scam to me

how is keeping more of da money you make a scam?

When you present it as a better way to stimulate the economy that demand side spending, yes, it definitely is a scam.

You want to argue that people should keep more of their tax dollars, fine. But don't pedal that it is so great for the economy.

And if we are talking about tax cuts for the rich, then the rich should be willing to have austerity imposed on them, not the middle class.

Own business
Get rich
Buy politicians
Have politicians you own secretly help create and push tax loopholes and laws that benefit you
Convince poor Americans these plans will benefit them
Profit

Scam - dishonest scheme or fraud
Fraud - wrongful deception intended to produce personal or financial gain

This is the thing.

Republicans have once again finessed the talking point, and Dems don't notice it.

It is not the money that is the issue, it is the influence. Good public policy discussion can't be had because so many policy makers are bought off by big business. It is bad on both sides, but my god is it too far gone on the Republican side. The GOP doesn't even try to practice coherent economics now.

-BTW, if a low falt tax was the best method of taxation for the American economy, I would support that passionately. It is not, it is a horrible idea, and at this point American has to take its medicine on the issue taxation. It is not about what you want, but what works best for the economy.

Yes government needs to be more efficient and less wasteful, but we also need more revenue. Tax cuts for the rich (in 2017 America) are not the way to get more revenue. People that say it is, like Trump, don't understand how the economy works.

 

[IATT]

Newsweek ‏@Newsweek 5m5 minutes ago

Trump pick Andy Puzder owes millions to a convicted bank seeking a Labor waiver http://bit.ly/2l44IiN

 

[IATT]

USA TODAY ‏@USATODAY 2m2 minutes ago

Flynn apologizes after admitting he may have discussed sanctions with Russia http://usat.ly/2lHMY9u

 

[EddieDoyers]

Trudeau didn't let trump do the pulling handshake today

 

[dreamer23]

 

[rolaholic]

Trudeau didn't let trump do the pulling handshake today

He put his hand on his arm just in case he was gonna try pulling

 

[Black Lotus]

Trudeau didn't let trump do the pulling handshake today

denied 

hit the weight room donny 

 

[wavycrocket]

LOL Trudeau was ready on the handshake game today

 

[rillo561]

USA TODAY‏@USATODAY 2m2 minutes ago

Flynn apologizes after admitting he may have discussed sanctions with Russia http://usat.ly/2lHMY9u

So admitted to lying, I wonder where it goes from here.

 

[RustyShackleford]

USA TODAY‏@USATODAY 2m2 minutes ago

Flynn apologizes after admitting he may have discussed sanctions with Russia http://usat.ly/2lHMY9u

Holy ****, it is wrap for homie.

 

[jjs07]

USA TODAY‏@USATODAY 2m2 minutes ago

Flynn apologizes after admitting he may have discussed sanctions with Russia http://usat.ly/2lHMY9u

Holy ****, it is wrap for homie.

He's trying to get ahead of whatever bombshell that may drop.

All because of @Colombia

 

[rolaholic]

USA TODAY‏@USATODAY 2m2 minutes ago

Flynn apologizes after admitting he may have discussed sanctions with Russia http://usat.ly/2lHMY9u

So admitted to lying, I wonder where it goes from here.

He'll get a promotion when the noise dies down...

 

[dreamer23]

Holy ****, it is wrap for homie.

 

[Black Lotus]

He's trying to get ahead of whatever bombshell that may drop.

All because of @Colombia

 

[EddieDoyers]

Trudeau didn't let trump do the pulling handshake today

denied 

hit the weight room donny 

Donald couldn't **** Canada
Well done Trudeau

Throwback to the libbro era

 

[rolaholic]

Trump sounded WAY less hawkish regarding NAFTA with Trudeau than he was with the Mexican president

Not sure what he meant by them having less to do regarding renegotiations of NAFTA given the positive trade relations already present with Canada compared to Mexico though since both are under the same agreement but I guess we'll get more details in the coming days

 

[IATT]

willing to bet trump doesn't know Canada is a part of the agreement as well