***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[dwalk31]

So essentially your purpose is to state the sky is blue, while refraining from discussing any substantive matters of potential misconduct by the president or any of his associates.

Any other scorching hot takes?

In the political discussion thread, I discuss the political implications of allegations. The horror.

If this were the detective or mystery thread, I’d be more inclined to reach conclusions based on limited facts on party lines—as many in here do.

You want a comment on the substance other than “we will see” when you have limited facts and spin from both sides.

 

[Belgium]

The president is asking Ukraine for a "favor" in undermining the investigations and conclusions of the Special Counsel investigation, the Republican House Intel investigation, the Republican Senate Intel investigation and the Intel agencies' assessment.

 

[getback]

Why are folks still going back and forth with this dude?

 

[gry60]

The consistent sky-is-falling routine

Americans are a funny bunch. Willing to bomb foreign lands because of a lack of commitment to democracy and application of fair laws, but at home, the laws on the books may as well be suggestions (not even guidelines) because "freedom."

 

[KHUFU]

Yes to every question but the last. In regards to the last question, I have no idea. Serious answer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/17/...nhattan-kill-an-unarmed-man-in-a-scuffle.html

 

[Belgium]

Perhaps the FBI did take up the investigation? Director Wray seems like an alright guy.
Barr’s DOJ immediately squashed it and didn’t even bother opening an investigation of course.

Clearly the Trump-appointed IC Inspector General felt there was a sufficient basis to open a criminal investigation into the president.

 

[Quincy McCall]

He asked another country to take the fall for Russia?sounds like someone whom didn't collude

 

[equality]

In the political discussion thread, I discuss the political implications of allegations. The horror.

If this were the detective or mystery thread, I’d be more inclined to reach conclusions based on limited facts on party lines—as many in here do.

You want a comment on the substance other than “we will see” when you have limited facts and spin from both sides.

You're the epitome of someone who tries to come off articulate and smart but everything you say proves otherwise

 

[IATT]

Why are folks still going back and forth with this dude?

Lost cause trying have a legit convo.. HOWEVER

 

[wavycrocket]

Man, they were SCRAMBLING this morning . Complicit isn’t even a strong enough word. Shared this BS “summary” with Republicans and Giuliani before anybody else in congress got to see it...completely bypassing the process and trying to cover their ***. Laws are just words left up to interpretation for wealthy white men with power. They mean nothing.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1176871915207700481

 

[AEA18]

 

[Belgium]

He asked another country to take the fall for Russia?sounds like someone whom didn't collude

Taking the fall is a bit much but at best it is an attempt to undermine the finding that Russian GRU officers were responsible for the DNC hack.

That finding was established by the relevant intel agencies, the congressional Intel committees under Republican leadership and later reaffirmed by the Special Counsel.

That resulted in Mueller indicting the GRU officers responsible for conducting the DNC hack.

Trump is now again questioning that finding and asked Zelensky to undermine that conclusion.

I can’t really think of any reason for this behavior other than to deflect blame from Russia.
Roger Stone and his lawyers have been trying, and failing, to dispute the DNC hack attribution ahead of his trial so perhaps the goal is to aid Stone? Then again the DNC hack is irrelevant to Stone’s charges of 5 counts of false statements, one count of obstruction of justice and one count of witness tampering.

 

[RustyShackleford]

2019 is a lock to win the Oustanding Writing for a Drama Series award at the Emmys next year.

 

[IATT]

2019 is a lock to win the Oustanding Writing for a Comedy Series award at the Emmys next year.

 

[shoefreakbaby]

 

[IATT]

Man, they were SCRAMBLING this morning . Complicit isn’t even a strong enough word. Shared this BS “summary” with Republicans and Giuliani before anybody else in congress got to see it...completely bypassing the process and trying to cover their ***. Laws are just words left up to interpretation for wealthy white men with power. They mean nothing.

and cant forget:

dwalk31

 

[-Red-]

You really cannot make this **** up.

I just started my Masters in Public Administration, so this is perfect timing to make my classes interesting. Bringing popcorn next week.

Major move. Congrats bro

 

[Belgium]

It has already been established that the DOJ Office of Legal Counsel lied in their assessment of the whistleblower complaint.
They know very well that the whistleblower complaint involves a series of multiple acts, not just that one call. The OLC makes no mention of the other parts of the whistleblower complaint.

Even on the part of the complaint they did assess, the Trump-appointed IC Inspector General said he particularly disagrees with that assessment. In fact, he said the polar opposite of that assessment was the actual truth.
He stated that the complaint didn't just concern an intelligence activity under the jurisdiction of the DNI, unlike what the OLC claimed, but that it related to one of the most important responsibilities of the DNI.

The IC Inspector General also issued a criminal referral to the DOJ together with the Acting DNI Maguire. The DOJ swiftly squashed that last week and didn't even bother opening an investigation.
It's unclear when this second criminal referral took place but the ICIG also sent a separate referral to the FBI to open a criminal investigation into the president.


It's not hard to see why the DOJ is lying about the whistleblower complaint given that Bill Barr is named in the Zelensky call.

 

[gry60]

I'm enjoying these sea lion gifs

 

[debso]

wow @ the differences between cnn's/msnbc's front page and fox's front page.

 

[IATT]

dwalk31 = lindsey?!?

 

[Christian Pulisic]

 

[IATT]

 

[-Red-]

at trying to hand-waive all of this as simply “political theatre”

 

[Belgium]

Sure sounds like a quid pro quo.

Zelensky: "We are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the [US] for defense purposes."
Trump: "I would like you to do us a favor though."

The inclusion of the word "though" right after Zelensky brought up purchasing US Javelins supports the inference that Trump wants a favor in return.

Shortly before the above conversation, the president establishes the US' leverage on Ukraine by pointing out that the US provides significant support to Ukraine, more so than European countries.
Around a week before this call took place, Trump ordered a hold on the military aid funds approved by Congress. The funds were released on September 20, not long after details of the whistleblower complaint were reported publicly. They also included an extra $140m on top of the funds Congress approved. Secretary Mnuchin refused to answer where that extra $140m came from or why it had been added.