***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[whywesteppin]

I don't think anyone has ever denied there are black Trump supporters. I know a couple in real life.

I think what is far-fetched is the insinuation that Trump will somehow out perform a generic Republican with black voters.

Nothing points to him exciting new black conservatives to come to the polls to swing the numbers, nothing points to him flipping enough black voters that vote Dem. He polls terribly with black voters.

I mean he will make his pitch about how great he has been for black people, cite the same **** Fox News peddles, and pray he can hit Bush Jr. numbers. But Bush Jr. Numbers are still around 12-15 percent.

But he knows he is not in a good place with most of them. That's why the GOP actively tries to suppress black voters. Because if black voters had great universal access to the polls, they would destroy Trump's path to reelection, lock the GOP out of the house, and hand the Senate to the Dems.

So it is kinda wild to me that anyone would make that argument about Trump's chances with black voters. Like there is this silent majority, or sizable minority, ready to insure a Trump reelection, yet the GOP makes it harder for them to vote. Like what level of idiot do right wingers think people are to believe that mess.

wrong.

edit:

Spoiler

I want to let them slide for this... They got to dance their New Orleans song in the White House and that's cool, I guess. But... you gotta be aware of the optics. Whatever their intentions, this will be associated with Trump's WH, and as a bonus it's being sold as a pro-2A dance....

 

[dwalk31]

How do you determine what someone's intent is?

Several things would have a tendency to show intent. Text messages, emails, studies, statements from people involved, etc.

 

[boris]

Several things would have a tendency to show intent. Text messages, emails, studies, statements from people involved, etc.

So, when someone states what their intent is, you accept that is actually their intent?

 

[dwalk31]

So, when someone states what their intent is, you accept that is actually their intent?

It can have a tendency to show, but it isn't dispositive. It is always very fact-specific. Showing intent is difficult absent emails, texts, video, etc.

 

[mr s j king]

wrong.

Obama wouldn't have allowed this

 

[boris]

It can have a tendency to show, but it isn't dispositive. It is always very fact-specific. Showing intent is difficult absent emails, texts, video, etc.

Since people can lie, how do you decide if they are lying about their intent?

 

[dwalk31]

Since people can lie, how do you decide if they are lying about their intent?

That's why I said what someone says is not dispositive. You have to look at all of the surrounding facts and come to a conclusion. And, without any other evidence (texts, emails, etc.) reasonable people can probably disagree on it.

 

[Belgium]

Earlier in 2019, HUD officials admitted to Congress that they were knowingly illegally withholding disaster aid to Puerto Rico. In a letter, the Inspector General also suggested those officials misled Congress initially about the conclusions of the IG’s review. The cited reason for the heavy restrictions in addition to illegally withheld aid is concerns about corruption.

In other news, the anti-corruption WH is adding pro-bribery to its platform and is “looking at” changing the Foreign Corrupted Practices Act, after “complaints“ about the law criminalizing the bribing of foreign governments and nationals.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/15/us/politics/trump-puerto-rico-disaster-aid.html
Trump Attaches Severe Restrictions to Puerto Rico’s Long-Delayed Disaster Aid
Days after the island was hit by a 5.9-magnitude earthquake, the White House released billions in aid but placed limits on how it can be spent.

The Trump administration imposed severe restrictions on Wednesday on billions of dollars in emergency relief to Puerto Rico, including blocking spending on the island’s electrical grid and suspending its $15-an-hour minimum wage for federally funded relief work.

 

[gry60]

It can have a tendency to show, but it isn't dispositive. It is always very fact-specific. Showing intent is difficult absent emails, texts, video, etc.

You don't say!

The Secret Files of the Master of Modern Republican Gerrymandering

Newly obtained records and e-mails show that Thomas Hofeller collected data about the voting patterns of Americans based on their race.

www.newyorker.com

Before his death, in August, 2018, he saved at least seventy thousand files and several years of e-mails. A review of those records and e-mails—which were recently obtained first by The New Yorker—raises new questions about whether Hofeller unconstitutionally used race data to draw North Carolina’s congressional districts, in 2016. They also suggest that Hofeller was deeply involved in G.O.P. mapmaking nationwide, and include new trails for more potential lawsuits challenging Hofeller’s work, similar to the one on Wednesday which led to the overturning of his state legislative maps in North Carolina.

As it turns out, Bentley's driver's license closures were racial

US DOT concludes investigation, ALEA folds

www.al.com

Rural Alabama had been hit hard by the closures, but especially the Black Belt -- the region of Alabama that takes its name first from the color of its rich soil but also from the concentration of African-Americans who live there. A few economic development projects aside, the Black Belt has always suffered the worst from Alabama's sins, leaving its citizens with the least means the farthest distance from basic necessities, be it a job, simple trip to a grocery store, utilities like broadband internet.

And now a place to get a driver's license.

Here's the crude little map I drew after Bentley's driver's license closures. The counties in red were left with no offices.
To make matters worse, the closures came on the heels of Alabama requiring photo ID at the polls -- a change the state made nearly the second the United States Supreme Court took it out from underneath the watchful stare of the United States Justice Department and the Voting Rights Act.

Again, all you had to do was look at a map to see this would be a problem, but Gov. Robert Bentley evidently didn't bother. He'd been eager to punish lawmakers for not raising taxes and patching the hole in the state's General Fund budget, and so he took out his frustrations on those who had already suffered the most in the state and stacked another rock on their mountain of challenges.

And for what? We now know the driver's license closures saved little money -- somewhere between $200,000 and $300,000, tops, according to Bentley's former ALEA secretary Spencer Collier. The routine shortfalls in the General Fund budget typically range from $100 million to $200 million. The closures didn't even scratch that. They were a naked act of political vengeance.

So I made a crude digital version of my colored paper map and published it here. My colleague John Archibald looked at census and elections data and found more ugly facts. In the 10 counties with the highest proportion of minorities, the state closed driver's license offices in eight. The other two remained open because it might be too much to explain, I suppose, for Alabama not to have driver's license offices in Montgomery or Selma.

This is where I watch you try to explain how state legislators don't know how to estimate and do the necessary math to see that DMV closures wouldn't affect budget shortfalls.

 

[gry60]

That's why I said what someone says is not dispositive. You have to look at all of the surrounding facts and come to a conclusion. And, without any other evidence (texts, emails, etc.) reasonable people can probably disagree on it.

You mean evidence like this?

Memos Reveal Scope, Racial Animus of GOP Gerrymandering Nationwide

Documents outline plans by top GOP strategists to exploit the creation of “majority-minority” seats and ensure redistricting dominance.

theintercept.com

IN COURT AND IN PUBLIC, many top Republicans have denied gerrymandering gives them any advantage at all. They’ve captured state legislatures and won an edge in Congress, some have suggested, due to superior candidates, better campaigns, and natural geographic sorting that clusters Democrats in urban areas and spreads Republicans more efficiently across the suburbs and rural America.
“The problem is not district lines; the problem is weak candidates who run poor campaigns based on bad ideas,” said Chris West, spokesperson for former Virginia Speaker of the House William Howell, in 2017.
“We have better candidates, better issues and a better understanding of what our constituents want to do,” Wisconsin state Rep. Kathleen Bernier told the Wall Street Journal in the same year.
In a trove of never before published memos and emails, however, GOP leaders come clean: Their nationwide advantage in state legislatures and Congress is built on gerrymandering. And top Republican strategists and political operatives admit to weaponizing racial data and the Voting Rights Act in order to flip the South red and tilt electoral maps in their direction.

Those are among the revelations from over 70,000 documents, maps, and emails, obtained by The Intercept, that were culled from the hard drive backups of the late redistricting mastermind Thomas Hofeller.

 

[Belgium]

dwalk31
Would you describe this as anti-corruption?

 

[dwalk31]

dwalk31
Would you describe this as anti-corruption?

You know this isn't enough info for me to answer

 

[Belgium]

You know this isn't enough info for me to answer

The FCPA, passed in 1977, bars the bribing of foreign nationals.
Either you’re against bribery/corruption or not, there is nothing to “look at” or even remotely consider doing so in the case of the former.
Companies (and reportedly Trump personally) complained about not being able to bribe foreign nationals and the WH is accommodating their concerns by not immediately dismissing them as crooks, let alone bothering to “look at” the anti-bribery law.

Baffling that Kudlow would even admit this, essentially taking an implicit pro-bribery position by merely questioning the criminalization of bribing foreign nationals. It is absurd.

 

[Deleted member 42060]

I really hate this man

The trump diet. Starch, carbs, some cholesterol and some more calories! Why eat fresh fruits and veggies for good health.

He'll probably broker a deal with the top fast food companies to provide discounted meals for schools, a.k.a. dollar menu items.

 

[Deleted member 42060]

Ted should have said:

 

[rexanglorum]

You mean evidence like this?

Memos Reveal Scope, Racial Animus of GOP Gerrymandering Nationwide

Documents outline plans by top GOP strategists to exploit the creation of “majority-minority” seats and ensure redistricting dominance.

theintercept.com

In North Carolina, at least, the matter has been adjudicated. It has literally been given due process. The finding of the court, changes to voting laws since 2011 are racist af.

 

[dwalk31]

The FCPA, passed in 1977, bars the bribing of foreign nationals.
Either you’re against bribery/corruption or not, there is nothing to “look at” or even remotely consider doing so in the case of the former.
Companies (and reportedly Trump personally) complained about not being able to bribe foreign nationals and the WH is accommodating their concerns by not immediately dismissing them as crooks, let alone bothering to “look at” the anti-bribery law.

Baffling that Kudlow would even admit this, essentially taking an implicit pro-bribery position by merely questioning the criminalization of bribing foreign nationals. It is absurd.

I think “implicit pro-bribery position” is a reach.

 

[dwalk31]

In North Carolina, at least, the matter has been adjudicated. It has literally been given due process. The finding of the court, changes to voting laws since 2011 are racist af.

There is a current NC Voter ID law that is making its way through the courts. But I fully support getting rid of any Voter ID law that is racist.

 

[IATT]

 

[AEA18]

 

[IATT]

dwalk31 has said he needs to do better on twitter

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

There is a current NC Voter ID law that is making its way through the courts. But I fully support getting rid of any Voter ID law that is racist.

What do you think of the GOP using tactics like this to suppress voter turnout? Do you think Suppressed black turnout is an intended result? Are you okay with them continuing to push policies like that as long as they get defeated by the courts?

 

[dwalk31]

What do you think of the GOP using tactics like this to suppress voter turnout? Do you think Suppressed black turnout is an intended result? Are you okay with them continuing to push policies like that as long as they get defeated by the courts?

1. I am against voter suppression tactics, period.
2. I don't know, but if that is the intended result that is truly disgusting.
3. I am not okay with pushing policies that intend to suppress black voter turnout.

A different question is impact. I am okay with voter ID laws that include provisions that simultaneously increase the access to the required government-issued IDs.

 

[IATT]

 

[dwalk31]

You're taking that quote out of context. According to the article, he said that has been the accusation. And that it was not accurate.