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Re to
junglejim
This is my initial interpretation as well. Some Bernie supporters argue that Biden's policies and plans don't align with Bernie. Sure ok. But if you are a Bernie supporter and like his policies and want change that benefits the whole rather than a select few, well which policies skew closer to Bernie's, Biden or Trump?
Re to whywesteppin
This I also agree with. IMO, any person who chooses not to vote for Hillary out of some misplaced morality, in actuality, caused greater distress and harm by effectively voting for Trump. The argument that both were bad and both would cause similar harm to the nation is logic I can only find in bizarro world.
Re to rexanglorum
Yeah a lot of people don't vote, and those who saw a beacon of hope in Bernie and lost it when he dropped out and decided to stay home is understandable. I personally believe this is a grave miscalculation on their end. For these voters to believe that they would be equally worse off under Biden and Trump doesn't hold water from what we know and what we've seen Trump do.
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I also got another point of view from a Bernie supporter. The person said the rationale for voting for Trump or someone other than Biden was to prove a point to the democratic party. If the Democratic party does not support a left leaning candidate, the Bernie supporter essentially said they would rather see the the party lose and get 4 more years of Trump if it means getting a more progressive candidate afterward/moving forward.
To me this doesn't make sense
- Assumption that the Democratic party is stagnant, when to me it seems the party is continually moving left. Maybe not at the speed some wish, but this is light years better than the Republican party / Trump which Bernie supporters could potentially vote for.
- To say one supports rights that help and uplift the masses while at the same time be willing to sacrifice those people under a Trump presidency is quite something.
- The willingness to gamble on getting a more progressive candidate 4 years later AND win the next election is also something else. We've seen the lengths the Republicans will go to in order to win elections. The things being done now may not be reversible for some time ... like packing the courts.
I was talking to a friend of mine and we essentially thought of these types of Bernie supporters as a bunch of R'as Al Ghul's running around trying to burn the whole Dem party down believing there aren't any redeemable qualities like that would help in the long run. Dems need to win now to save people and reverse the effects we've seen over the last four years. Progress is slow but doesn't mean things don't eventually change for the better.
Anyways it's late and I'm tired of ranting. If I misunderstood a Bernie supporter, by all means, let me know what I missing. (I personally like Bernie and what he's fighting for, but I also want to be able to get someone in office now that will be more beneficial to the people)
This is my initial interpretation as well. Some Bernie supporters argue that Biden's policies and plans don't align with Bernie. Sure ok. But if you are a Bernie supporter and like his policies and want change that benefits the whole rather than a select few, well which policies skew closer to Bernie's, Biden or Trump?
Re to whywesteppin
This I also agree with. IMO, any person who chooses not to vote for Hillary out of some misplaced morality, in actuality, caused greater distress and harm by effectively voting for Trump. The argument that both were bad and both would cause similar harm to the nation is logic I can only find in bizarro world.
Re to rexanglorum
Yeah a lot of people don't vote, and those who saw a beacon of hope in Bernie and lost it when he dropped out and decided to stay home is understandable. I personally believe this is a grave miscalculation on their end. For these voters to believe that they would be equally worse off under Biden and Trump doesn't hold water from what we know and what we've seen Trump do.
------
I also got another point of view from a Bernie supporter. The person said the rationale for voting for Trump or someone other than Biden was to prove a point to the democratic party. If the Democratic party does not support a left leaning candidate, the Bernie supporter essentially said they would rather see the the party lose and get 4 more years of Trump if it means getting a more progressive candidate afterward/moving forward.
To me this doesn't make sense
- Assumption that the Democratic party is stagnant, when to me it seems the party is continually moving left. Maybe not at the speed some wish, but this is light years better than the Republican party / Trump which Bernie supporters could potentially vote for.
- To say one supports rights that help and uplift the masses while at the same time be willing to sacrifice those people under a Trump presidency is quite something.
- The willingness to gamble on getting a more progressive candidate 4 years later AND win the next election is also something else. We've seen the lengths the Republicans will go to in order to win elections. The things being done now may not be reversible for some time ... like packing the courts.
I was talking to a friend of mine and we essentially thought of these types of Bernie supporters as a bunch of R'as Al Ghul's running around trying to burn the whole Dem party down believing there aren't any redeemable qualities like that would help in the long run. Dems need to win now to save people and reverse the effects we've seen over the last four years. Progress is slow but doesn't mean things don't eventually change for the better.
Anyways it's late and I'm tired of ranting. If I misunderstood a Bernie supporter, by all means, let me know what I missing. (I personally like Bernie and what he's fighting for, but I also want to be able to get someone in office now that will be more beneficial to the people)
It's as simple as this. If you are a Bernie supporter and are voting for Trump or not voting then you were never really a progressive in the first place and didn't really care that much about the issues you claimed that only Bernie can fix.
They're not true progressives. And they likely have the ability (or "privilege" as my friend dwalk31 would say) to withstand 4 more years of Trump.
They're also automatically lumped into the same category of everyone in 2016 who did not vote for Hillary. They're responsible for everything Trump does and they have the blood of this COVID disaster partially on their hands. Those who do the same in 2020 are even worse.
edit: If you're stuck at home with nothing to do, check out the alarming number of twitter accounts run by Russian bots that are putting out anti-Biden propaganda. Or they might be Bernie Bros. Hard to tell them apart these days.
A lot of people do not vote, they feel (not entirely incorrectly) that this is all a game for affluent retirees, well paid office workers and business owners and that that electoral politics is not for them or about them. No matter who is office, you'll be poor or one bad break away from being poor.
For many non voters (though tragically, not enough), Bernie's campaign was the exception to the rule and they voted in the primary and unless Bernie makes a huge comeback and is on the ballot, many of those Sanders voters will revert to their status as non voters.
I largely agree with the above but I still see voting as harm reduction in the face of a capitalist systems that sees most of us as disposable. No matter who is president, the struggle to overcome capitalism runs through organizing and direct action. A Sanders Presidency would have been a tremendous ally but those of us on the left, know that we were going to spend the 2020's fighting no matter what.
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