***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[rexanglorum]

Eventually, you’ll have to tell someone more marginalized than you that their political choice is sub optimal. You’ll have to figure out that contradiction.


We’re all basically dead in the next 15-25 years within this economic and political structure which is inescapable. I am just done with all this.

 

[Methodical Management]

I swear to god, and I may be totally mistaken, but didn't Dirtylicious say "oppression olympics" in the context that different marginalized groups shouldn't compete over who is singularly the most marginalized and therefore whose insights into strategy for emancipation is categorically better.

If it's your intention to ask me to answer for something offensive that a longtime volunteer may or may not have said over a decade and a half ago - I'll refer you to any post you've made in response to the the oft-sexist antics of "Bernie Bros."

As for the phrase "oppression olympics" itself, I suggest that you search for that phrase and how it's used if you're confused as to why anyone might take umbrage to it. I refuse to even link a representative example, because I don't want to risk boosting the search rankings of reactionary trash.

There's a difference between trying to argue that classism is somehow "worse" than racism because poverty has supposedly killed more people and suggesting that protesting for the right to go bowling in a pandemic is not comparable to the American Civil Rights Movement.

Would you feel differently if someone had used the phrase "oppression Olympics" in response to an actual sexual assault survivor? Oppression is a matter of life and death. The Olympics are just games. Making a "game" of individual or collective suffering is vulgar and flippant.

It comes across like the phrase "playing the _____ card": an utterly tone-deaf attempt to negate or trivialize any invocation of oppression, as though it's somehow a "cheap ploy."



As a general word of advice: when you find yourself implying that the majority of Black voters support barbarism, you might want to take a moment to reassess your position.

 

[junglejim]

Also, we know that a lot of people, especially at a lot of poor, marginalized people, who are eligible to vote, will not vote in November. Now they don't vote and that helps Trump because they could have gone and voted for Biden. Biden's administration will kill fewer people than four more years of Trump, we all agree on that.

I ask, RustyShackleford , junglejim and anyone else, do you agree with people's decision to not vote?

Ive said this many times, but people are free to vote for whomever they choose, even if that means not voting at all. That is their right, but with that being said, I don’t want to hear **** from people who didn’t vote when Trump is president again and absolutely nothing gets better for them.

 

[whywesteppin]

Kavanaugh didn’t handle his testimony well in my view so he largely lost credibility points there.

exactly. how they handle it says a lot. as far as I've seen Biden hasn't attached Reade but has just said he denies the allegations. Trump/Rs tend to attack their accusers.

 

[junglejim]

exactly. how they handle it says a lot. as far as I've seen Biden hasn't attached Reade but has just said he denies the allegations. Trump/Rs tend to attack their accusers.

I’ve been trying to let the whole thing play out and let all the facts come out, so my understanding could be wrong on some of this stuff. It seems like the central piece of evidence from Reade is corroboration and her saying she filed a complaint with her supervisor and the circumstances around her leaving. It seems to me that if Joe didn’t do it then it would go a long way to have an independent party release her employment file. I would think it would have the complaint in there and reason for leaving.

Reade should be given an opportunity to tell her story and I do tend to err on the side of caution in these matters unless there are multiple victims that comes forward then that moves the needle for me.

This biggest things I need answered is timing of accusation and why it took until he became the candidate to come forward, why has she praised Biden as recently as 2018, why was she recently supporting Putin, why she kept her employment file but never kept the complaint she filed, and an explanation for why her story has changed from inappropriate touching on the shoulder to full on rape.

If Biden did this then he needs to step aside and let the DNC pick the candidate.

 

[rexanglorum]

If it's your intention to ask me to answer for something offensive that a longtime volunteer may or may not have said over a decade and a half ago - I'll refer you to any post you've made in response to the the oft-sexist antics of "Bernie Bros."

As for the phrase "oppression olympics" itself, I suggest that you search for that phrase and how it's used if you're confused as to why anyone might take umbrage to it. I refuse to even link a representative example, because I don't want to risk boosting the search rankings of reactionary trash.

There's a difference between trying to argue that classism is somehow "worse" than racism because poverty has supposedly killed more people and suggesting that protesting for the right to go bowling in a pandemic is not comparable to the American Civil Rights Movement.

Would you feel differently if someone had used the phrase "oppression Olympics" in response to an actual sexual assault survivor? Oppression is a matter of life and death. The Olympics are just games. Making a "game" of individual or collective suffering is vulgar and flippant.

It comes across like the phrase "playing the _____ card": an utterly tone-deaf attempt to negate or trivialize any invocation of oppression, as though it's somehow a "cheap ploy."



As a general word of advice: when you find yourself implying that the majority of Black voters support barbarism, you might want to take a moment to reassess your position.

Yes I am an elitist because I want every human being on Earth to have a good, dignified worthwhile existence and pay for by taxing the ill gotten gains of the wealthiest people in the Global North. I am a sexist because I want gender hierarchies abolished. Most of all, I’m a racist because I want to dismantle white supremacy including all its manifestations in foreign and domestic policy and pay out reparations as redress for centuries of racialized capitalist extraction and accumulation.

I will try to do better and grope female subordinates, say that Indian American control the liquor store racket, pontificate about how black people live in filth and let minutemen know that I’m doing all I can to build a border fence.

Calling me racist for not enthusiastically supporting Joe Biden? Jesus H Christ, I’m done here.

 

[dwalk31]

there’s that pesky echo chamber again

Gotta love the diversity of thought from both sides of the aisle.

Refreshing!

 

[IATT]

Gotta love the diversity of thought from both sides of the aisle.

Refreshing!

 

[mister friendly]

Trump hits 49 percent approval rating in Gallup poll




https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehil...s-49-percent-approval-rate-in-gallup-poll?amp

 

[IATT]

 

[AEA18]

Trump hits 49 percent approval rating in Gallup poll




https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/495695-trump-hits-49-percent-approval-rate-in-gallup-poll?amp

"Soared" to 49% making up a 6 point loss

 

[dacomeup]

I try my best to understand the perspective of black voters who didn't vote for Bernie in the primary.

It honestly doesn’t seem like this. You take thinly veiled or blatant shots at them often.

Look, we're touching on an interesting question. Can you have solidarity with a group and think that they can make the wrong call politically. I'd say yes.

Can you claim solidarity and also speak about a group in a completely tone dead manner? E.g., the use of oppression Olympics and barbarism when it comes to these same voters.

I would say that what really put Biden over the top were affluent whites who don't want their taxes to go up or they fear their kids' college education will be devalued by tuition free college or they hold stock in health insurance companies or they are upper managers who find that labor precarity helps them deliver higher profits for their firm.

Bernie got slaughtered by older black voters. You may assert that they are the PMC, but instead they are people like my poor grandmother on dialysis that he just wasn’t able to reach. That’s a loss that Bernie and his supporters need to deal with, and the next candidate inspired by his message and race should build upon. Without this massive L, he’s probably the candidate this fall regardless of what the affluent whites want.

 

[junglejim]

There is a certain irony in someone being a libertarian as recently as 10 years ago while simultaneously ****ting on the policy decisions someone made 30-40 years ago

“Black people don’t know how to vote” ~ guy who wrote in Ron and Rand Paul for Prez for a decade

 

[dacomeup]

Gotta love the diversity of thought from both sides of the aisle.

Refreshing!

Plenty of ideological diversity of thought in here. Methodical Management just tries to keep the race trolling, misogyny, anti-semitism and pedo-caping to a minimum, so that usually ends up with bans for the republican posters in this thread.

 

[dwalk31]

Plenty of ideological diversity of thought in here. Methodical Management just tries to keep the race trolling, misogyny, anti-semitism and pedo-caping to a minimum, so that usually ends up with bans for the republican posters in this thread.

Good thing I'm here, as a republican poster, to keep it fair and balanced without the race trolling, misogyny, anti-semitism and pedo-caping

 

[RustyShackleford]

Good thing I'm here, as a republican poster, to keep it fair and balanced without the race trolling, misogyny, anti-semitism and pedo-caping

 

[junglejim]

Good thing I'm here, as a republican poster, to keep it fair and balanced without the race trolling, misogyny, anti-semitism and pedo-caping

 

[dacomeup]

Good thing I'm here, as a republican poster, to keep it fair and balanced without the race trolling, misogyny, anti-semitism and pedo-caping

Yea, your trolling, bad faith arguments, poor semantic games, moral bankruptcy, and hypocrisy is a great representation of the Republican Party in 2020. We’re lucky to have you.

 

[whywesteppin]

I think we can all agree that, just like America, this thread is REALLY ROCKING AGAIN.

 

[IATT]

 

[aepps20]

Good thing I'm here, as a republican poster, to keep it fair and balanced without the race trolling, misogyny, anti-semitism and pedo-caping

Do you know what's also a good thing? Helping victims of disgusting pedos but you wouldn't know anything about that after you caped for Roy Moore. #NOMORALCOMPASS

 

[KHUFU]

Trump's sticking up for Biden, really isn't a good look. If he likes you, then surely, you've done something wrong.

 

[Belgium]

rexanglorum
Or RustyShackleford if you want to jump in.

One of the observations I have made (which could be completely wrong of course) from the 2016 election and this campaign is that many progressives appear to grossly overstate the electability of progressive candidates, while also being dismissive of the moderate vote.

A common theme was 'if you want to win, pick a progressive', but I have seen no evidence to support that. Bernie lost by millions of votes in the 2016 primary against an immensely disliked Hillary Clinton. In the current primary, Biden has been wiping the floor with Bernie since N.C.
In some areas Bernie performed very well in during 2016, his margins in those areas in this primary decreased significantly.

When I look at the success of the 2018 midterms for Democrats, I largely see key wins by moderates.

On the other hand, it is true that progressive ideas often have broad popularity. Polls where the ideas are presented without any political affiliation attached to it show this time and again. Yet that evidently doesn't translate translate into similarly high support for a candidate pushing those ideas.

There is a clear discrepancy between the popularity of progressive ideas and the electability of progressive candidates.

How do you view my assessment?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yes I am an elitist because I want every human being on Earth to have a good, dignified worthwhile existence and pay for by taxing the ill gotten gains of the wealthiest people in the Global North. I am a sexist because I want gender hierarchies abolished. Most of all, I’m a racist because I want to dismantle white supremacy including all its manifestations in foreign and domestic policy and pay out reparations as redress for centuries of racialized capitalist extraction and accumulation.

I will try to do better and grope female subordinates, say that Indian American control the liquor store racket, pontificate about how black people live in filth and let minutemen know that I’m doing all I can to build a border fence.

Calling me racist for not enthusiastically supporting Joe Biden? Jesus H Christ, I’m done here.

Taking offense for something that didn't take place.

 

[dwalk31]

rexanglorum

One of the observations I have made (which could be completely wrong of course) from the 2016 election and this campaign is that progressives appear to vastly overstate their electability.
A common theme was 'if you want to win, pick a progressive', but I have seen no evidence to support that. Bernie lost by millions of votes in the 2016 primary against an immensely disliked Hillary Clinton. In the current primary, Biden has been wiping the floor with Bernie since N.C.
In some areas Bernie won in 2016, his margin in this primary decreased significantly.

When I look at the success of the 2018 midterms for Democrats, I largely see key wins by moderates.

On the other hand, it is true that progressive ideas often have broad popularity. Polls where the ideas are presented without any political affiliation attached to it show this time and again. Yet that evidently doesn't translate translate into similarly high support for a candidate pushing those ideas.

How do you view my assessment?

I know you didn't ask me...but moderates push their electability over progressives for the general--but Hillary lost.

The fact that Biden could secure southern states in the primary won't matter much because he will, undoubtedly, lose those states in the general.

I think progressives have a better electability argument for a general election because they bring more energy. Which could turn swing states.

A bunch of people begrudgingly voting for Biden, because anybody but Trump, doesn't seem like a real way to win an election.

But we will see in November.