***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[dwalk31]

Sorry, I use the word rape because 25 people (including some who were children at the time) have brought lawsuits against Donald Trump for RAPE and/or sexual misconduct. That's why RAPE came up.

25 women accused Trump of rape? I think that is factually inaccurate.

Are these criminal charges against him or are they civil suits?

I ask because the burden of proof is different in each.

And if it is civil then I am not sure that rape is the cause of action.

Again, as often happens, people in this thread make things up and run with them. That simply isn't an accurate recitation of the facts.

 

[hipstermike]

Yes. And time to revoke consent. If the tape said something like "and when they tell me 'no' or to stop I keep going" then I think you'd have a better argument that the elements of sexual assault were met. The tape, alone, doesn't get there. As ridiculous as it is to have said.

As I've said many times as it relates to due process, someone is criminally innocent unless/until they are proven guilty in a court of law.

If he did what he is accused of then it is clearly despicable and disqualifying.

But to determine if your stance is bipartisan, do you think Biden is guilty of sexual assault based on the accusations against him?

If I ever have a daughter I hope they never run into men like you

 

[junglejim]

25 women accused Trump of rape? I think that is factually inaccurate.

Are these criminal charges against him or are they civil suits?

I ask because the burden of proof is different in each.

And if it is civil then I am not sure that rape is the cause of action.

Again, as often happens, people in this thread make things up and run with them. That simply isn't an accurate recitation of the facts.

The 26 women who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct

In May 2023, a Manhattan jury found Donald Trump liable for the sexual abuse of E. Jean Carroll. Here's who else has accused him of misconduct.

www.businessinsider.com

Woman suing Trump over alleged teen rape drops suit, again

The lawyer who organized the event said Donald Trump's accuser had received threats and was too frightened to show up.

www.politico.com

The accusations range from grabbing inappropriately to full on rape as in the case of E. Jean Carroll who is currently waiting for Trump to provide a semen sample to match the dress she wore during the accusation. This also only includes named accusers where he was accused of rape but the victim wished to remain anonymous. In one of those cases, the victim was a 13 year old.

So again, I choose not to ignore the sea of accusations made against a man who casually bragged about the act on tape with friends.

 

[hipstermike]

Sounds like the kind of guy that will take silence as consent and doesn’t understand body language

 

[dwalk31]

If I ever have a daughter I hope they never run into men like you

You prefer she runs into men that let their emotions override discussions of legal standards?

That's fine.

I hope that if you have a daughter, whoever chooses to love, be it a man, woman, or non-conforming/non-binary identifying individual, meets your expectations.

 

[dwalk31]

The 26 women who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct

In May 2023, a Manhattan jury found Donald Trump liable for the sexual abuse of E. Jean Carroll. Here's who else has accused him of misconduct.

www.businessinsider.com

The accusations range from grabbing inappropriately to full on rape as in the case of E. Jean Carroll who is currently waiting for Trump to provide a semen sample to match the dress she wore the night of the accusation. This also only includes named accusers where he was accused of rape but the victim wished to remain anonymous. In one of those cases, the victim was a 13 year old.

So again, I choose not to ignore the sea of accusations made against a man who casually bragged about the act on tape with friends.

So, not 25 rape accusations like you previously said.

And not criminal charges.

Like I said previously, if he is guilty of these accusations it is despicable, disgusting, disqualifying and he deserves the resulting consequences.

But I do not presume guilt. It is your choice to do so.

 

[dacomeup]

My stance as a black conservative lawyer, yea.

The logic is truly not difficult to understand.

Being a lawyer has nothing to do with this. You’re not a prosecutor or a judge. The parallel is weak as hell.

 

[dwalk31]

Sounds like the kind of guy that will take silence as consent and doesn’t understand body language

This is an interesting take.

Do you take body language as consent?

 

[junglejim]

So, not 25 rape accusations like you previously said.

And not criminal charges.

Like I said previously, if he is guilty of these accusations it is despicable, disgusting, disqualifying and he deserves the resulting consequences.

But I do not presume guilt. It is your choice to do so.

Go re-read the statement that you quoted and come back to me.

But even if there were a tape of him doing it, I'm not even convinced it would really move the needle for you.

 

[dwalk31]

Go re-read the statement that you quoted and come back to me.

But even if there were a tape of him doing it, I'm not even convinced it would really move the needle for you.

Fair point. "Rape" in all caps made me miss the "and/or." My mistake.

It would re: your second point.

 

[junglejim]

.

 

[hipstermike]

Need a break from this thread again

Can’t be around his white supremacy toxic masculinity bs right now

 

[dwalk31]

Need a break from this thread again

Can’t be around his white supremacy toxic masculinity bs right now

Protect your peace

 

[dwalk31]

Being a lawyer has nothing to do with this. You’re not a prosecutor or a judge. The parallel is weak as hell.

I'm not a prosecutor (could not even imagine the mindset of someone who would consider becoming one) or a judge.

And I never said that I was.

You want to make a distinction between a private citizen and public figures. But that distinction drifts from my initial point.

My point was that I understand the poster's skepticism of my motives--as a black conservative--because of my skepticism of black prosecutors and black criminal court judges who are, as I see it, advancing the system.

The same way they would respond that they feel they can help due to their "discretion," I feel that my stances will help people that look like me overall.

 

[nerw32]

I'm not a prosecutor (could not even imagine the mindset of someone who would consider becoming one) or a judge.

And I never said that I was.

You want to make a distinction between a private citizen and public figures. But that distinction drifts from my initial point.

My point was that I understand the poster's skepticism of my motives--as a black conservative--because of my skepticism of black prosecutors and black criminal court judges who are, as I see it, advancing the system.

The same way they would respond that they feel they can help due to their "discretion," I feel that my stances will help people that look like me overall.

This is more word salad from a habitual line-stepper.

Access Hollywood transcript

I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it.
I did try and **** her. She was married.
And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, "I'll show you where they have some nice furniture." I took her out furniture—I moved on her like a *****. But I couldn't get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony **** and everything. She's totally changed her look.[4]

Later, referring to Arianne Zucker (whom they were waiting to meet), Trump says:

I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the *****. You can do anything.

Legal definition for sexual assault According to Cornell Law School. Trump is a predator in multiple states that would make it a federal case.

10 U.S. Code § 920 - Art. 120. Rape and sexual assault

(b)Sexual Assault.—Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1)commits a sexual actupon another person by—
(A)
threatening or placing that other person in fear;
(B)
making a fraudulent representation that the sexual act serves a professional purpose; or
(C)
inducing a belief by any artifice, pretense, or concealment that the person is another person;
(2)commits a sexual actupon another person—
(A)
without the consent of the other person; or
(B)
when the person knows or reasonably should know that the other person is asleep, unconscious, or otherwise unaware that the sexual act is occurring; or
(3)commits a sexual act upon another person when the other person is incapable of consentingto the sexual act due to—
(A)
impairment by any drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance, and that condition is known or reasonably should be known by the person; or
(B)
a mental disease or defect, or physical disability, and that condition is known or reasonably should be known by the person;
is guilty of sexual assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

If you start kissing and grabbing someone without their consent (consent must come first), that is literally sexual assault. If you are actually a lawyer why is that a person with a criminal justice bachelors and an MBA can figure this out but you can't? You either are not a lawyer or you are one of the worst lawyers of all time.

 

[whywesteppin]

Conservatives: women need to practice self-control in the bedroom. I'm ok with their life being ruined because of one mistake.

Also conservatives: men need to be protected. I am not ok with their life being ruined because they couldn't withhold their sexual desires or get inconvenienced by asking for consent.

 

[Belgium]

You think it would be out of his pattern of behavior to criticize the DOJ or the attorney general to respond to critics?

Trump talks about and criticizes DOJ's past and current actions all the time, though only regarding the Special Counsel investigation, his political opponents and criminal charges against his associates. He hasn't criticized DOJ for anything regarding criminal justice reforms that Sessions and Barr reversed.

AG Barr clearly doesn't care one bit about criticism but his behavior suggests Trump has significant influence over his actions. If anyone can get Barr to change course, it's Trump. Barr has lied to protect Trump from scrutiny, lied to advance Trump's false/incomplete narratives, intervened in criminal cases of Trump's associates at the same time Trump publicly called on him to do so, ...

 

[gry60]

[

I actually 100% respect your opinion. And I understand that it is grounded in deductive reasoning that logically follows.

That said, the same logic can be used to say black prosecutors are not FOR black people. Or black police. Or black criminal judges.

They would respond that they feel that they have an ability to use discretion in these roles in a way that helps black people. I understand your skepticism of me, because of my skepticism of those that choose those paths as black lawyers or black police. I doubt I will ever truly understand it.

That said, the reality is that I know where I stand on these issues. I know what I do to impact and empower those that look like me.

While it is a bit disheartening, at times, to hear the visceral responses to some of my political opinions, I know where I stand on the issues.

And I think the policies I advance will ultimately help those that look like me, so I take comfort in that.

You keep talking about where YOU stand, but none of this is about YOU.

If Candace Owens took all the money Conservatives are giving her to say the things she says about black people and built schools with it, her legacy would still be tainted by the fact that her voice helped legitimize the stereotypes American society uses to make Black lives difficult

Their opinions, on that issue, are not mine.

I speak for myself.

But you will vote for Trump in November, which guarantees those people say in those positions

Exactly!

We have 8% of Black people who support the BS. While they may not be affected by the views of this administration and people like them, they are jeopardizing the lives of the majority of Black people in the US because those problematic views will be turned into policies and laws we will all have to live by. So who are they trying to save? Themselves, that's who. Unfortunately, only few black conservatives have the awareness to recognize their selfishness. The majority hides behind Jesus, as if he didn't take one for the team.

 

[whywesteppin]

In case anyone is on the fence about voting for Biden this November, this makes it clear as day why you should. Otherwise you risk 4 years and maybe even a generation of destruction to our civil liberties:

 

[dwalk31]

If you start kissing and grabbing someone without their consent (consent must come first), that is literally sexual assault. If you are actually a lawyer why is that a person with a criminal justice bachelors and an MBA can figure this out but you can't? You either are not a lawyer or you are one of the worst lawyers of all time.

Let me answer your questions:

1. You are stating it is without consent, but that has not been illustrated as a matter of law.

2. You cited the federal code. But in this case you would need to find an applicable state code. I think the code you posted applies to members of the armed forces. So it is not applicable in this context.

But I understand how you got mixed up.

 

[plansb]

Not everything’s a ******* courtroom just because your a ******* lawyer.

 

[dwalk31]

[

You keep talking about where YOU stand, but none of this is about YOU.

If Candace Owens took all the money Conservatives are giving her to say the things she says about black people and built schools with it, her legacy would still be tainted by the fact that her voice helped legitimize the stereotypes American society uses to make Black lives difficult



Exactly!

We have 8% of Black people who support the BS. While they may not be affected by the views of this administration and people like them, they are jeopardizing the lives of the majority of Black people in the US because those problematic views will be turned into policies and laws we will all have to live by. So who are they trying to save? Themselves, that's who. Unfortunately, only few black conservatives have the awareness to recognize their selfishness. The majority hides behind Jesus, as if he didn't take one for the team.

If I was on here saying the things Candace Owens says, then I would understand your perspective. But I am not.

I don't have to adopt every position of this administration to believe that the First Step Act, Fair Chance Act, and record funding to HBCUs is positive.

It also appears that we will be getting a police reform bill.

I understand if you want to hand wave those measures or credit them to the Democrats but they were signed into law under this administration. And I think similar measures will continue to be passed under this administration. And that is good for people that look like me. And not just the 8% you cited.

 

[dwalk31]

Not everything’s a ****ing courtroom just because your a ****ing lawyer.

I don't think it is... but when folks start using legal terms then the legal standards become relevant.

 

[whywesteppin]

Guys, guys. Can we block out all this noise and focus on the real story of the day?

Who the hell is Nestor and why is a 31-year-old creepy white DUI-loving racist congressman with a punchable face sheltering a teenage boy?



Son? Or local student?

Or helper?

 

[yobyellav]

Helper when speaking to his buddies.
Son when he needs a prop for political arguments.

*My son also doubles as a remote finder.

edit: someone make that into a hashtag and make it trend on something.