***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[gry60]

Imagine starting your career in the medical field as your country launches humans towards the Moon, only to have to be escorted by federal agents 50 years later because half of your damn country has embraced anti-science anti-intellectualism.

 

[deusavertat]

Uhhhh

we are laughing but AmeriKkKa is one more Donald Trump away from this foolishness if we aren't already there. Make Namibia Great Again.

 

[obeahmyal7]

Wall street needs to start selling better behavior incentive bonds.

At first I found this comical. But now I can't tell if you're serious or not.

 

[deusavertat]

Love how da libs are all about black lives mattering but then turn around and **** on kind rural folks. I’d say “rural lives matter” but wouldn’t wanna be casted out as a racist

An uneducated poverty and sickness stricken idiot from Mississippi who votes against his own interests should not have that much power that they deprive the rest of us civilized folks of what the rest of the developed world already has. That's why we need to abolish the electoral college. If Jim Bob wants to die of diabetes and covid that's on him, but he shouldn't affect the policies that give Americans the bare minimum the rest of the developed world afford their citizens.

 

[RustyShackleford]

yes I think that there are plenty things that would really improve policing and that cost more money not less.

and while many of those things you mention would good,

the first order problem of solving and preventing crime is something if anything we should increase not decrease spending.

-the homicide rate is up pretty significantly in American cities.
-the solve rate for many crimes are pretty low.
-police officers only spend about 13 weeks on average in the academy.
-and there's some evidence having a more diverse police force seems to improve crime solve rates for minority communities.

seems to me, improved, longer training, attracting more diverse police force, attracting university graduates for detective work, increasing foot patrols
and

given the power of police unions maybe even money to incentivize older white cops to retire earlier to speed up the diversification.

seems to me these things all cost money.

simply removing police functions and breaking them off to other agencies won't actually decrease the budget unless you are cutting the actual number of police and I think that would be bad.

Famb I honestly hear you and kinda agree with you. An inconvenient truth is that a world with truly great policing would probably be a world with more police officers. But my fear is that even your policy prescription is gonna be very lacking too, and could actually make the situation worse.

There is a real risk of it being Crime Bill 2.0. You maybe get a decrease in crime, but at what cost to society?

Like there is zero incentive for the police to be less corrupt. You really just hoping a change in demographics leads to systematic change. A bigger police force that can't truly be held accountable is ****ing dangerous, all it takes is one budget shortfall away from being incentivized to start plundering minority and poor communities to plug the holes.

It is not like something like your proposal hasn't been floated, but as it said, the police themselves are hesitant to get more money unless it is a blank check.

Any extra oversight they get hit with, they try to veto it on the street. And rely on conservatives pushing back on the reforms they don't like

Even before this "defund the police" popped off, I could see folk in my real life making the same calculation. That is why I push back on your criticism of these people because these policy proposals are not born out of wonk class. They are born out of real frictions that exist.

Given the ****, folk had to deal with for so long, given how many times they have heard no, what else is there really. Because when the cops and city officials take everything else off the table, what they are trying to do really is decrease the risk the police show up, escalate the situation, and folk end charge over nothing, assaulted, or at worse murdered. It is really a harm reduction proposal being presented as police reform. Because maybe we can get the police to stop violating people by cutting down their interactions with them. That would be a net benefit.

Like I said, it is a ****ing hostage situation. I don't blame folk for looking for a net any win outta this ****ty situation.

 

[wr]

At first I found this comical. But now I can't tell if you're serious or not.

I'm being very serious. There's an incentive for police brutality the way the system is set up. Money needs to be used to incentivize better behavior.

 

[mr s j king]

Funny how people talk as if cops are chasing criminals and making the city safe their entire 12hr shift

Majority of them spend most of their day riding around looking to start with folks for no reason

Get new state of the art cars every 3-5yrs to race up and down the street in

Quick to want to pull me over for no reason at all but a white dude can ride around for two weeks with his wife's body in the trunk of the car and getting pulled over by the cops is the least of his worries

 

[Based Jesus]

Someone shouldn't have to be paid to see me as a human with dignity, who's deserving of respect

 

[wr]

Funny how people talk as if cops are chasing criminals and making the city safe their entire 12hr shift

Majority of them spend most of their day riding around looking to start with folks for no reason

Get new state of the art cars every 3-5yrs to race up and down the street in

Quick to want to pull me over for no reason at all but a white dude can ride around for two weeks with his wife's body in the trunk of the car and getting pulled over by the cops is the least of his worries

Majority of police budgets are wasted by racial policies, draconian drug laws and over policing areas were poor people reside.

It's almost as if they were designed to keep a certain segment of the population in check.

 

[wr]

Someone shouldn't have to be paid to see me as a human with dignity, who's deserving of respect

They shouldn't. That's how disgusting this place is.

 

[gry60]

yah police union opposition is not a reason to pursue bad policy.

Akchually, only the slogan is bad.
What the slogan entails is some of the stuff you have proposed, and cops don't want it. They don't want an educated, diverse workforce; they don't want to spend more time in school, learning about de-escalating tactics and whatnot; they don't want to spend more time on the streets of the neighborhoods they patrol and get to know the residents of those neighborhoods.

Go and take a look at Second City Cop; look at r/protectandserve. Go to those town hall meetings and listen to their baseless objections to common sense reforms.

They want to power trip with impunity. That's the culture of police departments throughout the US. That's why ethical cops quit. Otherwise, you wouldn't see nonsense like the "thin blue line" and "back the blue". There isn't a thin white line for doctors because they understand that they are not beyond reproach; they understand that being open to criticism leads to improvement. Cops and their families don't get that they CAN and SHOULD be criticized if they **** up; therefore, this culture cannot improve. It is rotten to the core, and throwing more money at it won't fix anything.

 

[RustyShackleford]

To me, you reward non-violent interactions and reward de-escalation with financial incentives, not pointless overtime fraud schemes they now push...

We need to cut all overtime and fund a lucrative police snitch line.

Is your partner racial profiling? Are they planting evidence? Are they physically assaulting suspects?

Then call 1-800-IM-TELLIN, and get paid for each credible report of misconduct you provide

Each report gets you closer to that special thing you been saving up for: UNC 3s? A Cuban Link Chain? A Rental Property? A piece of land in the Dakotas that we can guarantee you will never have black neighbors? They could all be ours.

Call Now!

 

[mr s j king]

Majority of police budgets are wasted by racial policies, draconian drug laws and over policing areas were poor people reside.

It's almost as if they were designed to keep a certain segment of the population in check.

Yeah poor white people definitely get profiled more than rich white people

 

[obeahmyal7]

I'm being very serious. There's an incentive for police brutality the way the system is set up. Money needs to be used to incentivize better behavior.

You'll have to elaborate.

• What, exactly, is the incentive for police brutality and why do you think monetary incentives will change policing?
• Are you suggesting that local governments sell bonds to Wall Street, and then use the proceeds to then incentivize 'better' policing? But if debt is ultimately serviced by taxes and fees, and cities have already issued so-called police brutality bonds (https://acrecampaigns.org/research_post/police-brutality-bonds/), would't this offer still more opportunities to profit from punishment without affecting policing practices?

 

[gry60]

At first I found this comical. But now I can't tell if you're serious or not.

America's approach to China's social credit score.

 

[reformeDWS]

i'm honestly getting sick of a dude living in canada downplaying police dynamics with minorities in america then talking down to us about what good policy would be and the best use of OUR tax dollars. it's just theory and ideas to you. it's real life for us. at some point you gotta take a ****ing seat and defer to the people telling you how it is here on the ground

 

[obeahmyal7]

America's approach to China's social credit score.

This is a brilliant analogy.

In the United States, people operate under the fiction that leveraging capitalist market solutions will solve what is, principally, the management of the discontented masses, and which, for historic reasons, is fundamentally anti-black social control.

In China, it's the state that manages and the reputation of its citizens.

Whereas in the US, there's a staunch belief in the market, iIn China we see an isistance that it's the state, and the state alone, that can determine creditworthiness (and trustworthiness).

 

[DLF]

An uneducated poverty and sickness stricken idiot from Mississippi who votes against his own interests should not have that much power that they deprive the rest of us civilized folks of what the rest of the developed world already has. That's why we need to abolish the electoral college. If Jim Bob wants to die of diabetes and covid that's on him, but he shouldn't affect the policies that give Americans the bare minimum the rest of the developed world afford their citizens.

Classless

All Americans matter. Jim Bob is a true American. These people built America from the ground up with their hard work and help from their immigrant employees from Africa. I think we owe them our respect.

 

[Mark Antony]

officers banking in my area

I'm sure they have living allowances too so they probably live well too.

 

[Belgium]

 

[deusavertat]

Classless

All Americans matter. Jim Bob is a true American. These people built America from the ground up with their hard work and help from their immigrant employees from Africa. I think we owe them our respect.

Lol I'm trying to save jim Bob from himself but because his very existence hampers all the progress that has been made in this country for ALL AMERICANS. I don't know how this turned into a discussion about African immigrants or why you through that in there.

And the nerve of MAGATs lecturing anyone about class, you and your horde of deplorables love this type of politics. Stop being such a snowflake. The time for class or decency for those who want to destroy this country because of their bigotry, insecurities, and "economic frustrations" do not deserve an ounce of class from me. They want the rest of the country to be as sick and stupid as they are.

 

[mplsdunk]

We save jim bob by getting rid of the electoral college.

 

[dmbrhs]

Tony Kornheiser rollin' in his grave.

 

[deusavertat]

Classless

All Americans matter.

Yes and I believe all Americans including Jim Bob should have access to affordable health and education, if Big Bertha and Jim don't want it they can turn it down.

We save jim bob by getting rid of the electoral college.

No we save the country FROM Jim Bob by abolishing the electoral college. A good metaphor is a child whose existence prevents the majority of the school from eating healthy. So they replace all the school lunches with greasy fries just to appease him. We shouldn't all have to die from covid because Karen refuses to follow simple instructions. We can only progress as far as a society as the least America has to offer allows us to.

 

[dacomeup]

this very weird to me.

how is mitch McConnel's recalcitrance and argument for bad policy?

Akchually, only the slogan is bad.

Exactly, once again conflating "bad policy" with things that he doesn't agree with, because Osh has to be right. There's nothing bad about providing more resources, programming, jobs and better education to undeserved communities as a means addressing crime in comparison to "better training". Reducing this to better training and a more diverse force (not what you're doing completely, but largely) completely ignores the crux of the issue here.