***Official Political Discussion Thread***

One can't help but wonder, given your stated positions, how you would have voted in that particular election in your home state.
he won’t answer. his lips are SEALed.
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John Dowd cc'd Kevin Downer in that email the day before Parnas' arrest but Kevin Downer (Manafort's lead attorney) wasn't even representing Parnas at that time.
 
Couple points:

-I think having a body language expert on in regards to Bernie's comments is kinda BS. Just like I had a problem with @red mpls taking issue with Warren's supposed "performance", I really ain't buying one way or another this lady.

-Joy Reid doesn't like Bernie all that much :lol:. I think now part of the reason is how hostile his supporters are toward her. A lot of racist and sexism **** gets flung her way online and at times it seems like she uses her show to jab them back. She raises some good points about Bernie sometimes, other times I think her takes are bad. Bernie supporters having such an issue with her is laughable though.

Like I have said, I am generally not that sympathetic to Bernie supporters whining about unfair treatment of Sanders in the media is all that unique. Sanders seems to be getting the same shake most Dems get. Secondly, there is an extensive network of pro Sanders online media outlets that make all kinds of BS argument in support of Bernie. Joy Ann Reid is no where close to Young Turks or even Krystal Ball level of buffoonery.

-When is comes to modern day American politics, Greenwald is trash. Dude is like the Tulsi Gabbard of the media. His whole downplaying of how dangerous the Trump Administration on Fox News is extremely problematic. He now like to stand on a high horse and be like he is fighting real fascism in Brazil, so he looks down on the resistance to Trump in America. Like your self righteous *** can **** all the way off.

-Yeah, in my own life I have seen what happens to people when they go down the rabbit hole of online media. Rogan is a gateway to so much nonsense, especially the alt-right.

And from my interaction with students, and my friends, I have seen a growing number of them getting hostile to fact and reality when it doesn't align with their political views. It is shocking how much pushback I have gotten when I tell people "M4A is not the only way to get to universal coverage". Yang supporters are a whole different problematic beast. But I honestly think the appeal to some people, especially the real bros, is that they think a Yang or Sanders presidency is only really gonna restructure class dynamics in America, while leaving others in mostly place. I say this because these folk sound like conservatives and libertarians with the amount of anti-liberal criticisms they push out. Complaints about "identity politics" are always a dead giveaway in a conversation to me.


I believe that Joy Reid (and more importantly her audience) cares about class politics just as much as the so called Bernie Bros. In fact, for the #resistence, social class issues are their top priority. They simply lie and say it is not the case.

Liberals like Joy Reid champion the professional-managerial worker. Her show and most MSNBC shows are the ego and voice of the elite of the workers, those who are or who can expect a good retirement, those who have great wages and benefits, those who have reliable hours, paid time off, those who ge really are treated like humans and not commodities at their jobs.

Sanders supporters and their attendant media outlets generally represent the less well off and less well treated parts of the work force.

The MSNBC abd CNN watching PMC have deeply divergent economic interest than do the front line, hourly workers who consume pro Sanders media.

No one truly votes first and foremost on their personal identity. People vote based on their material interests. It’s now a case where the left admits it so liberals deny it and paint class war as gauche, at best and racist at worst.

There is no serious class versus identity politics dynamic. Politics is largely a material struggle it’s just the case that many refuse to admit it.
 
I have given this much thought and constructed this question to be as neutral as possible:

Who do we think are the worst, the literal nazis, who are currently ****ing up the United States or the collaborators, who enable them for their own short sighted, personal petty gains?
 
Voters are so painfully stupid. I can’t believe the dem field has been dwindled down to these folks.

The old folks should’ve gotten out the way. Cory, Castro and Harris should’ve been the top candidates in the race.

It continues a lifelong theme of Boomers just pushing Gen X out of the way. Its ludicrous at this point because they are hitting their mid 70's and have all the power
 
The first Republican congressman to endorse Trump is getting his orange jumpsuit ready. The second congressman to endorse Trump is getting sentenced to prison in March. The judge didn't buy Collins' excuse and alleged remorse but only gave him a fraction of prosecutors' sentencing recommendation anyway for obvious reasons.
When the two congressman were indicted in 2018, Trump publicly berated Sessions for allowing their indictments and thereby hurting the GOP's electoral chances in the midterms.
https://www.politico.com/states/new...-26-months-for-insider-trading-scheme-1252648
Collins sentenced to 26 months for insider trading scheme
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Parnas clearly didn't want Yovanovitch removed just because of the direction by Lutsenko but both Giuliani and Parnas sought his help getting dirt on Biden. In exchange, Lutsenko demanded the removal of Ambassador Yovanovitch.
 
I believe that Joy Reid (and more importantly her audience) cares about class politics just as much as the so called Bernie Bros. In fact, for the #resistence, social class issues are their top priority. They simply lie and say it is not the case.

Liberals like Joy Reid champion the professional-managerial worker. Her show and most MSNBC shows are the ego and voice of the elite of the workers, those who are or who can expect a good retirement, those who have great wages and benefits, those who have reliable hours, paid time off, those who ge really are treated like humans and not commodities at their jobs.

Sanders supporters and their attendant media outlets generally represent the less well off and less well treated parts of the work force.

The MSNBC abd CNN watching PMC have deeply divergent economic interest than do the front line, hourly workers who consume pro Sanders media.

No one truly votes first and foremost on their personal identity. People vote based on their material interests. It’s now a case where the left admits it so liberals deny it and paint class war as gauche, at best and racist at worst.

There is no serious class versus identity politics dynamic. Politics is largely a material struggle it’s just the case that many refuse to admit it.


Joy Ann Reid is not out there trying to actively sell out lower income workers. She has a point about Bernie's blind spots sometimes, but she mixes that in with other nonsense. Most of her damn show seems to be attacking the GOP anyway. Also, ton of attacks I see online from Bernie supporters has not been calling her a traitor to the working people. It has been calling her all kinds of vile nonsense and black *****es. I really don't agree with all she has to say but the **** I see the sista having to deal with, I really don't care if she jabs back.

You stay trying to make the argument that being against Bernie on the left means someone is about selling out lower class workers. There are legit reason to not like or support Bernie's ***.

Secondly, you keep relying on this "Bernie represents the poor" as some sort of shield for ****ty behavior. Online leftist media outlets probably have a ton of affluent viewers. I doubt poor people are keeping them afloat with patreon donations, buying their books, and merch. DSA meetings are filled with affluent white people. We have Bernie supporters giving max donation in small increments to not throw off the average.

Whether liberal or leftist, there are a ton of people up and down the income scale that consume their media and are parts of the coalition. When you tried to pull the Bernie coalition is more diverse thing last time, I point out that Biden's support with lower income people seems to be stronger. You stay wanting to use the worst aspect of the liberal coalition to paint the entire movement. But let some stay some **** about a ****ty Bernie supporter and you clutch your pearls. You insist that people acknowledge all the good the left does, yet in your world it seems a good liberals are scarce.

Last time you said your opinions are shaped by the homelessness crisis in California and the lack of response. Which is fair, but people across the political spectrum we have ****ty NIMBY people that make moves that screws over low income renters and residents...
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/09/is-bernie-sanders-a-nimby/

I really think Joy Ann Reid pisses you guys off so much because she makes the same bad faith attacks on Bernie that you and Bernie supporting outlets make on other candidates. She is giving you a taste of your own medicine, and you don't like the taste.

You are basically upset at a liberal doing things that you having clearly tolerated, even encouraged, from those on the left.


No one truly votes first and foremost on their personal identity. People vote based on their material interests. It’s now a case where the left admits it so liberals deny it and paint class war as gauche, at best and racist at worst.

There is no serious class versus identity politics dynamic. Politics is largely a material struggle it’s just the case that many refuse to admit it.

:lol: :lol:

Bernie was talking his identity politics nonsense and people lined up to defend him. You even tried to defend him in here a little.

I have always maintained that the class and other struggles, especially the racial struggle, are intertwined and run parallel to one another. There are tons of the far left that think other struggles are subordinate to the class struggle and in turn say some real flippant **** at times. Maybe we should keep the same energy with these people you do with the liberals that piss you off so much, especially one random lady on TV that happens to not like your preferred candidate.

Secondly, I would argue that many white voters assign some value to their "whiteness", and get utility from making sure the status quo is maintained, especially the racial hierarchy in America. So within that frame, many feel they are making a rational decision because they value living in economic despair but being a level above minorities on the racial hierarchy, more than they value economic security and being on the same level as minorities socially. So it is not just voting a certain way because they are white, they vote a certain way to protect "whiteness", to protect their material interest, and all the perceived benefits that come along with it.
 
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Bernie back on his bull****....


Always gotta try to make excuses for regressive white people.

So Bernie's reasoning for the Dems not winning in the deep South is on the Dems failure to getting enough white voters. Does this mother****er know or care to know about the bull**** that goes on in the region.

High-stepping Sanders is....


making me reconsider my vote for Donald Trump in 2020! Finally Democrats are putting out a candidate I can get behind, somehow who understands what reverse racism looks like. The coal mines are in disrepair and I'm beginning to see that Neon Bernie is going to help us.
 
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