***Official Political Discussion Thread***

dacomeup said:
I’ve pretty clearly stated that any plans that don’t specifically address the unique history of Black oppression in this country I don’t care for. I don’t know how many more times I have to say it :lol:.

I’m weary of these race neutral leftist plans that will still leave Black people with the short end of the stick. I’m weary of white people arguing that this isa class warfare issue and not advocating specifically for Black people who have suffered far more than their white counterparts. I’m skeptical that Black people still won’t be made whole after this leftist revolution.
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Despite our disagreements on here, this is one of the most real things I think I've seen you post.

1000% agree.
 
Sharpshoeter13 said:
Oh you know he’s got the plug on standby :pimp:

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Da Butter Biscuit One two Step Scam Van will do when he gets the first buttery taste of da biscuits.
 
RustyShackleford said:
I expanded on my post before you can respond.

I didn't make any accusations about white leftists as a whole. THIS IS MY ****ING POINT .

On this occasion, I called out people from all over the political spectrum that decries identity politics, because observable reality is pushing back against their concerns and complaints. But you read "leftist," and you were off to the races.

You have admitted that you are not up on every single leftist media outlet and the online discourse of many of them engage in online. But because you don't personally know a leftist that makes ****ty arguments, does that mean they don't exist, and I am just making **** up? You can't possibly be up on the arguments being made in every liberal circle (which includes a ton of very progressive people). Yet, I always have to address some "liberal consensus." I don't ever present a "leftist consensus" for anyone to answer to. I call out people I think are either bad actors, or I feel are wrong. In this case, my target was not even leftist specifically. I just pointed out that problematic rhetoric exists in those circles too.

Finally, may you need to hear it again. The issue/accusation is not that all white leftists want to explicitly tell marginal white voters that you can have economic prosperity and leave out black people. The issue is that if you lead with only the so-called universal colorblind progressive policies, and push the racial justice demands to the background, the people that accept the olive branch may think they are signing up for only the economic progressivism and not a fight against other forms of injustice. That if we get social democracy, if you empower labor over capital, then you tell these white people that took the olive branch (especially the men) of your coalition, '"Ok cool, well this fight was also for racial equality too, in fact, all kinds of equality, so we have to do all these other things too, for these other groups" many of the people you brought in will be like "well we didn't sign up for all this," "the universal programs helped non-white people too, why is more needed," "I think we have done enough." Will these people have the same commitment to fight for changes they will not directly benefit from? Those people might then look for ways to protect their position on the racial hierarchy at the expense of their economic prosperity. Also, there will be politicians there to appeal to these voters and prime their white identity. And why shouldn't we be scared that a white middle class engages in such counterproductive self-destructive behavior? Well, because they did so in the past. Most still do it to this day.

Generally speaking, when it comes to improving their lives: Non-black people have to worry about economic justice and racial justice. White people only have to worry about economic justice. If we build our pitch and policy agenda on mainly addressing economic justice with colorblind universal programs, if we say that that the issue facing black people are primarily class issues, when we put race in the subordinate role to class in every analysis; generally which group do you think is in the driver's seat in the coalition, whites or non-whites? I mean, you not only take issue with people that don't advocate for social democracy, but you also take issue with how some black people advocate for it too, which is weird as **** to me, to be honest.

This is why I had such a ****ing issue with Bernie's nonsensical complaints of identity politics, economic anxiety BS, and asserting that the Democratic Party forgot how to talk to white working-class people. It was self-serving bull**** trying to let white people off the hook for indulging in racist behavior. Then he made economic appeals directly to these people. Don't you think that will come off as a dog whistle if someone says that type of **** alongside pushing for socially democratic politics? Then I see because he was the socialist guy, many back his play and the firmest rebuke you would hear from many on that side was, "I don't agree with Bernie," "Yeah, that is a bad look," "he should not have said that." All that was missing was the Delk SIGH. This is not to rehash the primary, but it was troubling at how people just let that **** just slid when those same people insist such behavior was against their principles.

Tons of socialist argue that the fight against capital is most important, and everything else is secondary. That will do the most good, and will make the other struggles for just easier. Moving toward social democracy is paramount. Institutional reform, technocratic concerns, administrative concerns, concerns racial discrimination, the list goes on, are very important, but we can work those things out once we defeat capital. Then when someone comes and tries to point out that ignoring that other stuff is a mistake that could undermine or even destroy the entire project, it is seemingly an issue because their analysis doesn't put class struggle central to the analysis. Telling socialist to watch your flank is treated as if you are saying put down their weapons. Pointing out the strategy they are using is not working, is treated as you are saying you want them to lose. It is eternally frustrating.

I am not mainly questioning the motives of all those suggesting we offering up the olive branch, I and saying we should be concerned about who is accepting it. Also, if there ever comes a time when those on the margin might want to undermine the project if they don't get their way, are we so sure that every socialist are on board with holding the line? Because I am not sure that is the case. This is a ****ty compromise I am talking about, not socialist fighting for white supremacy. But enough of them put protecting the socialist state above all else. That may be enough (it doesn't have to be most) will accept the not pursuing fight against racism with the same zeal as the fight against capital, in hopes of keeping those on the margin happy in the coalition. So some people may want anti-racism, but not enough where they would put socialism at risk. Sure black people are better off than they once were, but that is still a negative peace.

But anyway, I still maintain the fight for racial justice and the struggle for economic justice are intertwined. Crony capitalism and white supremacy reinforce one another, so really can't put fighting one ahead of the other.

Well, the good news which Klein article points out, is that we might be getting to a place where we don't need to push the demands for racial injustice to the background. Politicians might not always have to address the fears of white Americans. This is excellent news for everyone, especially for leftist that obvious claim the goal is to address both economic and racial injustice. Especially if they next major socialist candidate for president is not a old white guy. Because people of color, especially black people, face the most political blowback from white americans for being race conscious.

So while we are not there yet, we might be moving in the direction there will be less political blowback for speaking more honestly about race in this country. Where, you can offer up the olive branch to white Americans with a more honest appeal, and spell out the full fight, and know they are buying into the entire policy agenda.
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I mean, all one has to do is to take a look at the history of the Democratic party upto when the Dixiecrats left.
Look at the police, specifically the police unions, specifically the police unions in Wisconsin. They were all too eager to bust other labor groups (teachers) for Scott Walker while benefiting from labor-friendly policies.
The KKK tradesman who can't afford the gasoline to burn his cross will be attracted to the message of class equality, especially if the message of race equality is not attached to it. This is why including the discussion on race relations and the distribution of power among demographics should a necessary element of the leftist platform. Equitable economics alone won't stop left-leaning Karen from being able to call the police on black people because she knows she can get away with it.
 
alchemist iq said:
Answer this question truthfully.

As a "black man" in America who supports Donald trump, how do fell about Donald Trump recent tweets about endorsing "white power" supremacy? Should white people reign supreme over black people and other races? Keep in mind I fully believe you as a trump supporter and all trump supporters in my eyes are racist and if not, support racist individuals actions such as trump.
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I think he's talking about a different Trump...
 
dacomeup said:
Yet you will continue to vote for people who don't even think that systemic racism is real. Makes perfect sense. :lol:
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More like continue to vote for people who have the ability to get the meaningful legislation passed, no matter what they actually believe.

But yea, hopefully only voting for true believers will work out better for you. I don't mind being wrong as long as the end result it the same.
 
marikomorose said:
You don't think your route takes longer? I personally criticized the dems police reform being weak as hell, yet the republicans somehow managed to offer something weaker. Policing has been major cause of the deterioration of the black home you say you believe in.
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I actually don't think it would take longer.

Joe Biden authored the crime bill in 1994.

We didn't get a First Step Act, until 2018, under Trump.

Since one party can rely on the black vote without really much of an actual incentive to deliver anything, I think the other party recognizes a possibility to gain black votes by passing certain legislation.

As such, I think the quicker route is an administration that has passed the First Step Act, Fair Chance Act and has openly voiced support for a Second Step Act.
 
dwalk31 said:
I actually don't think it would take longer.

Joe Biden authored the crime bill in 1994.

We didn't get a First Step Act, until 2018, under Trump.

Since one party can rely on the black vote without really much of an actual incentive to deliver anything, I think the other party recognizes a possibility to gain black votes by passing certain legislation.

As such, I think the quicker route is an administration that has passed the First Step Act, Fair Chance Act and has openly voiced support for a Second Step Act.
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The 1st Step Act was inevitable & had been pretty much been blocked by republicans since 2015. Between time, compomise, and reelection something had to get passed to make this crappy presidency look somewhat okay.

The 1st step covers for federal offenses not state. Most people and especially black people are locked up on state charges. This bill protects Jordan Belfort, not Kalief Browder.
 
bunch of new laws and whatnot for us in VA this week

some highlights

Abortion
Legislation rolling back abortion regulations, including the mandatory 24-hour waiting period, the required ultrasound and the requirement that the woman be given certain printed materials before she could undergo the procedure, will become law.

Education
Courts in Virginia will no longer find students guilty of disorderly conduct for actions in school. The state is also eliminating the requirement that principals report misdemeanors committed at school to police.

Energy
Democrats advanced landmark legislation to make Virginia dependent solely on renewable energy by 2045, setting annual energy production and efficiency targets for the state's utilities. They also backed proposals to widen the door for solar projects, both private and utility-owned, and to urge regulators to approve a massive offshore wind development that Dominion Energy plans off the coast of Virginia Beach.

Health insurance
Insurers are limited to charging a maximum of $50 per month for insulin.
The state is also creating a state health insurance exchange instead of relying on the federal marketplace for people to buy health insurance with federal subsidies for monthly premiums and out-of-pocket costs. The health exchange, created more than a decade after adoption of the Affordable Care Act, will operate at the State Corporation Commission Bureau of Insurance.

LGBTQ
Just weeks after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 protects lesbian, gay and transgender people from discrimination in employment, Virginia is set to enact its own protections. Virginia is also set to become the first Southern state with comprehensive laws outlawing LGBTQ discrimination, with a law that prohibits discrimination in public and private employment and housing, among other things.
The practice of conversion therapy on minors will also be banned.

Marijuana
Possession of small amounts of marijuana in Virginia will no longer carry jail time or a criminal conviction. People found with less than an ounce of marijuana will face a $25 civil fine. Criminal records related to simple possession of marijuana will be sealed, with some exceptions. Most employers and educational institutions will be banned from asking applicants about any past simple possession convictions.

Voting
Virginians will no longer need to state an excuse in order to vote absentee and will no longer need to show a photo ID at the polls. The legislature also voted to scrap Lee-Jackson Day as a holiday on the state calendar in favor of Election Day.
On Election Day Polls will now close at 8 p.m. rather than 7 p.m.


New firearm laws:

 
marikomorose said:
The 1st Step Act was inevitable & had been pretty much been blocked by republicans since 2015. Between time, compomise, and reelection something had to get passed to make this crappy presidency look somewhat okay.

The 1st step covers for federal offenses not state. Most people and especially black people are locked up on state charges. This bill protects Jordan Belfort, not Kalief Browder.
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Black people catch federal charges too. Surely you don't think it is all--or even mostly--white collar crime.

But if we are talking presidential elections, then the laws being passed will impact federal offenses. If you want to shift the convo to state elections, we can, but that wasn't the initial discussion and neither administration (Biden or Trump) will pass sweeping state reform laws.

The fair chance act bans the box as it relates to federal contracts as well.

The fact that you concede "something had to get passed" under this administration somewhat bolsters my argument.

If a Democrat is elected nothing "has to be passed." The Democrats can, rightfully, point to Republican obstruction in the Senate and say "see, this is why it wasn't passed." End result being no legislation. But Trump can strong-arm Republicans and get the measures passed

Some in here have stated they would prefer no legislation under the Dems that watered-down legislation under this administration. I simply disagree that the former is better.
 
It's remarkable how my response to the plank calling me Donald Trump supporter keeps getting deleted. It's funny, but it isn't. :lol:
 
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