Okay, can we FINALLY admit.....

[38816]

Originally Posted by Im Not You

Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison were starters on a Wizards team that made the playoffs consecutively.
Somehow Damon Jones was a starter on a Miami Heat playoff team.
Wally was an all star and a starter on a playoff team
Ben Wallace obviously
Shaq
You mentioned Boozer

Off the top of my head those are Lebron's teammates that were starters on playoff teams. Obviously the list for starters in general on other teams would be a little bigger (Davis, Snow, Williams, etc.)

And for the record...Boozer is the best player Deron Williams has ever played with. Not much wrong with Utah as a franchise.

I'm not saying Lebron had a star studded cast around him. I'm just refuting your statements.

you're missing my point entirely....


larry hughes and antwaan jamison were starters for a wizard team that made the playoffs in the east with barely .500 records and got bounced the first round....(they played together? i dont think so)

SINCE playing for the cavs, larry hughes has started for NOBODY

antwaan jamison is going to retire a Cav....who could antwaan jamison start for RIGHT NOW, TODAY?

Damon Jones started for the heat? had to be out of having literally nobody else to put on the floor, and again, they got bounced immediately. (he didnt even start for cleveland...EVER...so i find it hard to believe that, after they RELEASED him, he started for someone else..)

wally was a star and starter for a playoff team? yeah, A DECADE  before he played with lebron. the year wally played for the cavs WHO WOULD HE HAVE STARTED FOR?

  
Since starting for the pistons, then the cavs, BEN WALLACE DOESNT EVEN PLAY BASKETBALL ANYMORE...THE 2 YEARS HE PLAYED IN CLEVELAND, WHO WOULD HE HAVE STARTED OVER? WHO CAN HE START OVER TODAY?

SHAQ???!?!?!?!?!

Boozer the best player Williams has played with? you see how successful utah has been, right?

look, dudes who were beasts 10 years before they played with Lebron do not count.

39-year old Shaq is not a star, nor is he a starter for ANY team in the nba EXCEPT the god-awful Cavs....

EVERY player you ARGUE were mere shadows of their former selves when coming to cleveland...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM....

jamison, shaq, z, wallace, wally......out of all of them, shaq had the best career, NONE of them were even 10% as good as they were in their primes.

you're discussing these people like he got a 25-year-old wally, a 21 year old shaq, a 25 year old jamison and a 20 year old z...

he got these players when their RIDICULOUSLY HUGE contracts were expiring....the people who traded them away did so to get rid of a toxic contract...

you cannot be serious right now.



LOOK, if you dont agree with me, just say you dont agree, dont pull ridiculous statements out of your *#* like "these players were starters for playoff teams" when the teams youre referencing were a DECADE before the time we're discussing...

lebron was in elementary school when wally scerbiak was even DECENT....

when i said "name a CAVS player who could START for any other team in the nba"

i didnt mean 10 years before they played for the cavs

i mean IN THE CONDITION IN WHICH THEY PLAYED FOR THE CAVS

yall just trynna argue ANYTHING...

lets argue grammar next...

so Boozer was the only one given to me.....i said Ricky Davis on my own.

so, again, Lebron's best teammates were BOOZER and DAVIS?

Wasn't Mo a starter in Mil?
And Delonte a starter in Boston? 
And Parker was a starter in Toronto, no? 


I don't think the teams made the playoffs, but they were starters. 
mo was the 2nd best player on the 3rd worst team in the NBA.....behind...MIKE REDD....

who could mo start for now? name a point guard who mo williams could WITHOUT QUESTION take their starting job....

no, delonte west NEVER started for boston....EVER....

im pretty sure anthony parker started in toronto like 7 years ago....the seasons leading up to him going to cleveland, he was coming off the bench....HE DIDNT EVEN START IN CLEVELAND....

and you're definitely right about NONE of those teams even coming CLOSE to playoffs...also, NONE of them were the best player on their respective teams.....Mo was the best, at 2nd behind MIKE REDD...WHO DOESNT EVEN PLAY BASKETBALL ANYMORE....

i like delonte west, i think he's one of the better players Lebron got to play with....but he was always injured or in legal trouble....or on the bench...

Wasn't Andre Miller a starting PG one year on Bron's team? Or was that before his time?
im not sure. but andre miller would be a 3rd person i could add to Boozer and Davis....and actually, he'd prolly be the best player.....although VERY limited....athletically.....

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Im Not You

Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison were starters on a Wizards team that made the playoffs consecutively.
Somehow Damon Jones was a starter on a Miami Heat playoff team.
Wally was an all star and a starter on a playoff team
Ben Wallace obviously
Shaq
You mentioned Boozer

Off the top of my head those are Lebron's teammates that were starters on playoff teams. Obviously the list for starters in general on other teams would be a little bigger (Davis, Snow, Williams, etc.)

And for the record...Boozer is the best player Deron Williams has ever played with. Not much wrong with Utah as a franchise.

I'm not saying Lebron had a star studded cast around him. I'm just refuting your statements.

you're missing my point entirely....


larry hughes and antwaan jamison were starters for a wizard team that made the playoffs in the east with barely .500 records and got bounced the first round....(they played together? i dont think so)

SINCE playing for the cavs, larry hughes has started for NOBODY

antwaan jamison is going to retire a Cav....who could antwaan jamison start for RIGHT NOW, TODAY?

Damon Jones started for the heat? had to be out of having literally nobody else to put on the floor, and again, they got bounced immediately. (he didnt even start for cleveland...EVER...so i find it hard to believe that, after they RELEASED him, he started for someone else..)

wally was a star and starter for a playoff team? yeah, A DECADE  before he played with lebron. the year wally played for the cavs WHO WOULD HE HAVE STARTED FOR?

  
Since starting for the pistons, then the cavs, BEN WALLACE DOESNT EVEN PLAY BASKETBALL ANYMORE...THE 2 YEARS HE PLAYED IN CLEVELAND, WHO WOULD HE HAVE STARTED OVER? WHO CAN HE START OVER TODAY?

SHAQ???!?!?!?!?!

Boozer the best player Williams has played with? you see how successful utah has been, right?

look, dudes who were beasts 10 years before they played with Lebron do not count.

39-year old Shaq is not a star, nor is he a starter for ANY team in the nba EXCEPT the god-awful Cavs....

EVERY player you ARGUE were mere shadows of their former selves when coming to cleveland...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM....

jamison, shaq, z, wallace, wally......out of all of them, shaq had the best career, NONE of them were even 10% as good as they were in their primes.

you're discussing these people like he got a 25-year-old wally, a 21 year old shaq, a 25 year old jamison and a 20 year old z...

he got these players when their RIDICULOUSLY HUGE contracts were expiring....the people who traded them away did so to get rid of a toxic contract...

you cannot be serious right now.



LOOK, if you dont agree with me, just say you dont agree, dont pull ridiculous statements out of your *#* like "these players were starters for playoff teams" when the teams youre referencing were a DECADE before the time we're discussing...

lebron was in elementary school when wally scerbiak was even DECENT....

when i said "name a CAVS player who could START for any other team in the nba"

i didnt mean 10 years before they played for the cavs

i mean IN THE CONDITION IN WHICH THEY PLAYED FOR THE CAVS

yall just trynna argue ANYTHING...

lets argue grammar next...

so Boozer was the only one given to me.....i said Ricky Davis on my own.

so, again, Lebron's best teammates were BOOZER and DAVIS?

Wasn't Mo a starter in Mil?
And Delonte a starter in Boston? 
And Parker was a starter in Toronto, no? 


I don't think the teams made the playoffs, but they were starters. 
mo was the 2nd best player on the 3rd worst team in the NBA.....behind...MIKE REDD....

who could mo start for now? name a point guard who mo williams could WITHOUT QUESTION take their starting job....

no, delonte west NEVER started for boston....EVER....

im pretty sure anthony parker started in toronto like 7 years ago....the seasons leading up to him going to cleveland, he was coming off the bench....HE DIDNT EVEN START IN CLEVELAND....

and you're definitely right about NONE of those teams even coming CLOSE to playoffs...also, NONE of them were the best player on their respective teams.....Mo was the best, at 2nd behind MIKE REDD...WHO DOESNT EVEN PLAY BASKETBALL ANYMORE....

i like delonte west, i think he's one of the better players Lebron got to play with....but he was always injured or in legal trouble....or on the bench...

Wasn't Andre Miller a starting PG one year on Bron's team? Or was that before his time?
im not sure. but andre miller would be a 3rd person i could add to Boozer and Davis....and actually, he'd prolly be the best player.....although VERY limited....athletically.....

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

wasnt Carlos Boozer a Cavalier?

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

wasnt Carlos Boozer a Cavalier?

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by Im Not You


And for the record...Boozer is the best player Deron Williams has ever played with. Not much wrong with Utah as a franchise.

Boozer wasn't really Boozer yet though until he joined Utah

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by Im Not You


And for the record...Boozer is the best player Deron Williams has ever played with. Not much wrong with Utah as a franchise.

Boozer wasn't really Boozer yet though until he joined Utah

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

STOP IT 50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

take your 24 posts the $$** up out my topic, boy.



Hey, i was asking you guys to name people, and we're getting somewhere.

Boozer, Miller and Davis.....none of them have made ANY team better, none of them have gone deep in ANY playoffs, and none of them have been the best player on any team since.....

this is my point; These are the only three players we can call 'stater-quality' that lebron has played with in 7 years......7 years....

these are the VERY BEST players CLEVELAND had during lebron's era...

and the two better players of the three WERENT RESIGNED...THEY LEFT VIA FREE AGENCY..AFTER THE FIRST YEAR, IF THAT....

THIS IS MY $%%+!%! POINT

HE'S NEVER HAD TALENT

THE TALENT HE'S HAD THAT WE AGREE ON; BOOZER, MILLER AND DAVIS

ARENT EVEN THAT TALENTED

THEIR MARGINALLY TALENTED PLAYERS

RICKY DAVIS?

ANDRE MILLER?

CARLOS BOOZER?

ARE YOU GUYS FORREAL, HERE?

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

STOP IT 50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

take your 24 posts the $$** up out my topic, boy.



Hey, i was asking you guys to name people, and we're getting somewhere.

Boozer, Miller and Davis.....none of them have made ANY team better, none of them have gone deep in ANY playoffs, and none of them have been the best player on any team since.....

this is my point; These are the only three players we can call 'stater-quality' that lebron has played with in 7 years......7 years....

these are the VERY BEST players CLEVELAND had during lebron's era...

and the two better players of the three WERENT RESIGNED...THEY LEFT VIA FREE AGENCY..AFTER THE FIRST YEAR, IF THAT....

THIS IS MY $%%+!%! POINT

HE'S NEVER HAD TALENT

THE TALENT HE'S HAD THAT WE AGREE ON; BOOZER, MILLER AND DAVIS

ARENT EVEN THAT TALENTED

THEIR MARGINALLY TALENTED PLAYERS

RICKY DAVIS?

ANDRE MILLER?

CARLOS BOOZER?

ARE YOU GUYS FORREAL, HERE?

 

[JD617]

no, delonte west NEVER started for boston....EVER....
Yes he did.

 

[JD617]

no, delonte west NEVER started for boston....EVER....
Yes he did.

 

[MVP]

You're losing, you just can't make up rules as you go along. There were multiple people that Bron played with that were starters in the league at some point. Eric Snow started for the Sixers when they went to the Finals and Shaq was a starter the year before in PHX and did for Boston as well while Perk was out earlier this season.

Hell even Chris Mihm started for the Lakers and he was on the Cavs. Don't act like Bron has played with a bunch of Smush Parkers that had zero talent. They wouldn't be in the league if they weren't marginally decent.

 

[MVP]

You're losing, you just can't make up rules as you go along. There were multiple people that Bron played with that were starters in the league at some point. Eric Snow started for the Sixers when they went to the Finals and Shaq was a starter the year before in PHX and did for Boston as well while Perk was out earlier this season.

Hell even Chris Mihm started for the Lakers and he was on the Cavs. Don't act like Bron has played with a bunch of Smush Parkers that had zero talent. They wouldn't be in the league if they weren't marginally decent.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

this guy writes a page and half every 10 mins. dude give it a rest

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

this guy writes a page and half every 10 mins. dude give it a rest

 

[ace rawstein]

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

 

[ace rawstein]

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

You're losing, you just can't make up rules as you go along. There were multiple people that Bron played with that were starters in the league at some point. Eric Snow started for the Sixers when they went to the Finals and Shaq was a starter the year before in PHX and did for Boston as well while Perk was out earlier this season.

Hell even Chris Mihm started for the Lakers and he was on the Cavs. Don't act like Bron has played with a bunch of Smush Parkers that had zero talent. They wouldn't be in the league if they weren't marginally decent.

Smush Parker is actually decent though he is just a ******.  Dude was a ballhawk and finished top 10 in steals one year I believe.

And 'Bron has as poor a starting cast as any elite player in history ever had its pretty irrefuteable.  You need all-stars level players around you in today's NBA and LeBron never had anything close to resembling that which is what EnPhan is trying to say.

 

[CP1708]

at us finding a Cav that started pretty much everywhere in the NBA. 

 

This dude types caps and has passion, but he need to stick with football.  He just said Shaq can't start for nobody, and he starts for the Boston Celtics. 

nor is he a starter for ANY team in the nba EXCEPT the god-awful Cavs....

 

[CP1708]

at us finding a Cav that started pretty much everywhere in the NBA. 

 

This dude types caps and has passion, but he need to stick with football.  He just said Shaq can't start for nobody, and he starts for the Boston Celtics. 

nor is he a starter for ANY team in the nba EXCEPT the god-awful Cavs....

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by Im Not You


And for the record...Boozer is the best player Deron Williams has ever played with. Not much wrong with Utah as a franchise.

Boozer wasn't really Boozer yet though until he joined Utah

exactly. but im willing to let it slide, cause my question posed was "who could start for another team"

he started for utah after leaving cleveland.

regardless of the fact that he was beyond garbage in cleveland...

he started for utah.

ricky davis started for minnesota

and andre miller starts for the blazers....

none of those teams are $#%#...none of those teams will be $#%#...

carlos boozer is a ROLE PLAYER for chicago....he was a ROLE PLAYER in utah, they just had such a lack of talent, he was a "STAR" out there...

but this is my exact point.....those are the only three we can name...

now, let me name some of the BUM @*%%#* that CANT start, nor sit the bench for ANY of the 30 teams in the NBA


Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, Jawad Williams, Chris Mihm, J.R. Bremer, Kendrick Brown, Mateen Cleaves, Jelani McCoy, Jeff McInnis, Darius Miles, Lee Nailon, Ira Newble, kevin Ollie, Eric Williams, Bruno Sundov, Lucious Harris, Luke Jackson, Jerome Moiso, Sasha Palovic, Jiri Welsch, Scott Williams, Robert Traylor, Zendon Hamilton, Alan Henderson, Ronald Murray, Scot Pollard, David Wesley, Lance Allred, Kaniel Dickens, Drew Gooden, Joe Smith, Billy Thomas, Cedric Simmons, Darnell Jackson, Tarence Kinsey, Jamario Moon, Sebastian Telfair...

oh, but he played with three marginally decent, easily replacable, none even close to elite "starters" like Boozer, Davis and Miller...

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by Im Not You


And for the record...Boozer is the best player Deron Williams has ever played with. Not much wrong with Utah as a franchise.

Boozer wasn't really Boozer yet though until he joined Utah

exactly. but im willing to let it slide, cause my question posed was "who could start for another team"

he started for utah after leaving cleveland.

regardless of the fact that he was beyond garbage in cleveland...

he started for utah.

ricky davis started for minnesota

and andre miller starts for the blazers....

none of those teams are $#%#...none of those teams will be $#%#...

carlos boozer is a ROLE PLAYER for chicago....he was a ROLE PLAYER in utah, they just had such a lack of talent, he was a "STAR" out there...

but this is my exact point.....those are the only three we can name...

now, let me name some of the BUM @*%%#* that CANT start, nor sit the bench for ANY of the 30 teams in the NBA


Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, Jawad Williams, Chris Mihm, J.R. Bremer, Kendrick Brown, Mateen Cleaves, Jelani McCoy, Jeff McInnis, Darius Miles, Lee Nailon, Ira Newble, kevin Ollie, Eric Williams, Bruno Sundov, Lucious Harris, Luke Jackson, Jerome Moiso, Sasha Palovic, Jiri Welsch, Scott Williams, Robert Traylor, Zendon Hamilton, Alan Henderson, Ronald Murray, Scot Pollard, David Wesley, Lance Allred, Kaniel Dickens, Drew Gooden, Joe Smith, Billy Thomas, Cedric Simmons, Darnell Jackson, Tarence Kinsey, Jamario Moon, Sebastian Telfair...

oh, but he played with three marginally decent, easily replacable, none even close to elite "starters" like Boozer, Davis and Miller...

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

You're losing, you just can't make up rules as you go along. There were multiple people that Bron played with that were starters in the league at some point. Eric Snow started for the Sixers when they went to the Finals and Shaq was a starter the year before in PHX and did for Boston as well while Perk was out earlier this season.

Hell even Chris Mihm started for the Lakers and he was on the Cavs. Don't act like Bron has played with a bunch of Smush Parkers that had zero talent. They wouldn't be in the league if they weren't marginally decent.

Smush Parker is actually decent though he is just a ******.  Dude was a ballhawk and finished top 10 in steals one year I believe.

And 'Bron has as poor a starting cast as any elite player in history ever had its pretty irrefuteable.  You need all-stars level players around you in today's NBA and LeBron never had anything close to resembling that which is what EnPhan is trying to say.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by CP1708

at us finding a Cav that started pretty much everywhere in the NBA. 

 

This dude types caps and has passion, but he need to stick with football.  He just said Shaq can't start for nobody, and he starts for the Boston Celtics. 

nor is he a starter for ANY team in the nba EXCEPT the god-awful Cavs....

Shaq starts but he is also effective cause he is part of the deepest team in the league which focuses the ball around him for short periods of the game. Boston's depth allows them to take advantage of Shaq's skill set, something Cleveland nor any other team in the league really maybe aside from the Lakers or Spurs would be able to do effectively.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by CP1708

at us finding a Cav that started pretty much everywhere in the NBA. 

 

This dude types caps and has passion, but he need to stick with football.  He just said Shaq can't start for nobody, and he starts for the Boston Celtics. 

nor is he a starter for ANY team in the nba EXCEPT the god-awful Cavs....

Shaq starts but he is also effective cause he is part of the deepest team in the league which focuses the ball around him for short periods of the game. Boston's depth allows them to take advantage of Shaq's skill set, something Cleveland nor any other team in the league really maybe aside from the Lakers or Spurs would be able to do effectively.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Jking0821

 

I have a hard time believing that MVP Voters won't say:

Lebron 26-7-7 wow those are really good numbers.  The heat are 37 and 14....o yeah and look at the Cav's without Lebron they are historically bad this year.

It just puts his past greatness into perspective more.  Again it's not going to be major factor but it will get brought up and create some bias toward lebron.

THIS


yeah, that.. but that is all it is.. the PAST.. not this season, not next season, last season. means it doesnt do anything for this season. that he's been playing great anyone can see that. even people that dont know a thing about basketball.. but that still doesnt mean he should get it based on the value he had in cleveland LAST year. every year is a clean slate and every player has a chance to win the MVP, not looking back to the previous years