Okay, can we FINALLY admit.....

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

last i knew, gooden was coming off the bench for dallas...

please, name the starting PFs who antwan jamison would take a starting role from....

  

wow im surprised this post wasnt a page and a half 

your slacking 

 

[ben roethlisberger]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Jking0821

 

I have a hard time believing that MVP Voters won't say:

Lebron 26-7-7 wow those are really good numbers.  The heat are 37 and 14....o yeah and look at the Cav's without Lebron they are historically bad this year.

It just puts his past greatness into perspective more.  Again it's not going to be major factor but it will get brought up and create some bias toward lebron.

THIS

yeah, that.. but that is all it is.. the PAST.. not this season, not next season, last season. means it doesnt do anything for this season. that he's been playing great anyone can see that. even people that dont know a thing about basketball.. but that still doesnt mean he should get it based on the value he had in cleveland LAST year. every year is a clean slate and every player has a chance to win the MVP, not looking back to the previous years

youre hung up on a belief that i am saying "lebron deserves the MVP because the cavs suck"

i was just pointing out the humor in the FACT that the cavs went from the best record to the worst record in one offseason...

he deserves the MVP cause he's putting up 26-7-7....

he deserves the title of "best on earth" because the cavs went from the best team to the worst team, recordwise, in one offseason...

see?

What holes does Kobe have even at 32? Passing? He CLEARLY could avg 8+ assists IF he wanted to. His team doesn't need that though.


nobody is mentioning kobe but kobe fans.

he CLEARLY could average 8+ assists?

CLEARLY?

has he EVER averaged 8 assists in his CAREER?

he had a 300-lbs center who shot 70 percent inside the paint, and didnt AVERAGE "8+" assists, so i dont think its very CLEAR at all...

his team doesnt need 8+ assists?

they're currently the 9th team in the leauge in assists....there is room for improvement....there is room for more assists, sir....

, when DOESNT your team need assists?

Hmmm when your team NEEDS you to score more than they need you to pass? Maybe thats when your team doesn't need more assists from a player like Kobe. And in the triangle offense it's pretty hard to avg that many assists in the first place. But watching him play, I can see him CLEARLY avg 8 assists a game, IF he wanted/needed to.

  

 

[ben roethlisberger]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Jking0821

 

I have a hard time believing that MVP Voters won't say:

Lebron 26-7-7 wow those are really good numbers.  The heat are 37 and 14....o yeah and look at the Cav's without Lebron they are historically bad this year.

It just puts his past greatness into perspective more.  Again it's not going to be major factor but it will get brought up and create some bias toward lebron.

THIS

yeah, that.. but that is all it is.. the PAST.. not this season, not next season, last season. means it doesnt do anything for this season. that he's been playing great anyone can see that. even people that dont know a thing about basketball.. but that still doesnt mean he should get it based on the value he had in cleveland LAST year. every year is a clean slate and every player has a chance to win the MVP, not looking back to the previous years

youre hung up on a belief that i am saying "lebron deserves the MVP because the cavs suck"

i was just pointing out the humor in the FACT that the cavs went from the best record to the worst record in one offseason...

he deserves the MVP cause he's putting up 26-7-7....

he deserves the title of "best on earth" because the cavs went from the best team to the worst team, recordwise, in one offseason...

see?

What holes does Kobe have even at 32? Passing? He CLEARLY could avg 8+ assists IF he wanted to. His team doesn't need that though.


nobody is mentioning kobe but kobe fans.

he CLEARLY could average 8+ assists?

CLEARLY?

has he EVER averaged 8 assists in his CAREER?

he had a 300-lbs center who shot 70 percent inside the paint, and didnt AVERAGE "8+" assists, so i dont think its very CLEAR at all...

his team doesnt need 8+ assists?

they're currently the 9th team in the leauge in assists....there is room for improvement....there is room for more assists, sir....

, when DOESNT your team need assists?

Hmmm when your team NEEDS you to score more than they need you to pass? Maybe thats when your team doesn't need more assists from a player like Kobe. And in the triangle offense it's pretty hard to avg that many assists in the first place. But watching him play, I can see him CLEARLY avg 8 assists a game, IF he wanted/needed to.

  

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

last i knew, gooden was coming off the bench for dallas...

please, name the starting PFs who antwan jamison would take a starting role from....

  

wow im surprised this post wasnt a page and a half 

your slacking 

 

[CP1708]

eNPHAN wrote:

LOL @ shaq started earlier this year when THE STARTING CENTER WAS OUT
  
He started the year before he came to the Cavs too.......

And the year before that.......

*shrugs* 

BTW, you mentioned the lack of talent Cleveland put around him, and you are correct, but um, do you plan on mentioning the fact that when he tried to recruit players, none of them wanted to sign unless he guaranteed that he would be staying?  Artest said no.  Ariza said no.  Shaq begged him to sign an extension.  Pretty sure Amare was interested in joining the Cavs if Bron signed a deal......so is some of that failure, not on Lebron for players not wanting to go there? 

 

[CP1708]

eNPHAN wrote:

LOL @ shaq started earlier this year when THE STARTING CENTER WAS OUT
  
He started the year before he came to the Cavs too.......

And the year before that.......

*shrugs* 

BTW, you mentioned the lack of talent Cleveland put around him, and you are correct, but um, do you plan on mentioning the fact that when he tried to recruit players, none of them wanted to sign unless he guaranteed that he would be staying?  Artest said no.  Ariza said no.  Shaq begged him to sign an extension.  Pretty sure Amare was interested in joining the Cavs if Bron signed a deal......so is some of that failure, not on Lebron for players not wanting to go there? 

 

[ace rawstein]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

What holes does Kobe have even at 32? Passing? He CLEARLY could avg 8+ assists IF he wanted to. His team doesn't need that though. 

nobody is mentioning kobe but kobe fans.

he CLEARLY could average 8+ assists?

CLEARLY?

has he EVER averaged 8 assists in his CAREER?

he had a 300-lbs center who shot 70 percent inside the paint, and didnt AVERAGE "8+" assists, so i dont think its very CLEAR at all...

his team doesnt need 8+ assists?

they're currently the 9th team in the leauge in assists....there is room for improvement....there is room for more assists, sir....

, when DOESNT your team need assists?

are u serious?
Kobes a scorer thats what he does, thats what he likes to do. he gets 5 assists a game from the 2....he takes off from scoring to the 3rd sum nights to get assists....i mean cmon u see what lebron has to do in miami....Jordan never HAD or Chose to do that, Kobe never HAD or Chose to do that

 

[ace rawstein]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

What holes does Kobe have even at 32? Passing? He CLEARLY could avg 8+ assists IF he wanted to. His team doesn't need that though. 

nobody is mentioning kobe but kobe fans.

he CLEARLY could average 8+ assists?

CLEARLY?

has he EVER averaged 8 assists in his CAREER?

he had a 300-lbs center who shot 70 percent inside the paint, and didnt AVERAGE "8+" assists, so i dont think its very CLEAR at all...

his team doesnt need 8+ assists?

they're currently the 9th team in the leauge in assists....there is room for improvement....there is room for more assists, sir....

, when DOESNT your team need assists?

are u serious?
Kobes a scorer thats what he does, thats what he likes to do. he gets 5 assists a game from the 2....he takes off from scoring to the 3rd sum nights to get assists....i mean cmon u see what lebron has to do in miami....Jordan never HAD or Chose to do that, Kobe never HAD or Chose to do that

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by CP1708

eNPHAN wrote:

LOL @ shaq started earlier this year when THE STARTING CENTER WAS OUT
  

He started the year before he came to the Cavs too.......

And the year before that.......

*shrugs* 

okay, and his peak ended after he played for the Heat....so we can agree he's on the downhill part of his career, right?

past his prime, right?

well, for the suns, the coach told him "you need to lose weight or we will bench you"

and he lost weight.

had a very marginal year, ESPECIALLY by SHAQ standards...

comes to cleveland, why? no idea. i was perplexed at the whole idea.....why would you get shaq during the last 3 years of his career? 

in cleveland, no coach tells him "yo, youre fat and out of shape....im going to bench you" cause cleveland didnt even have a coach, they had mike brown...

so now, shaq is looking for a team in the offseason...doc tells him"youre fat and out of shape" and he loses weight...

and he STILL isnt a starter...hes FILLING IN FOR AN INJURY

he's an INJURY STARTER.....

how are you proving me wrong with perkins starts over him?

   BTW, you mentioned the lack of talent Cleveland put around him, and you are correct, but um, do you plan on mentioning the fact that when he tried to recruit players, none of them wanted to sign unless he guaranteed that he would be staying?  Artest said no.  Ariza said no.  Shaq begged him to sign an extension.  Pretty sure Amare was interested in joining the Cavs if Bron signed a deal......so is some of that failure, not on Lebron for players not wanting to go there? 

oh, are you forgetting that the cavs play in CLEVELAND, OHIO?

Artest signed with LOS ANGELES, Ariza signed in HOUSTON Amar'e signed with NEW YORK........

you think it's because they were unsure about lebron?

how about the year they got larry hughes? they offered RAY ALLEN and MIKE REDD

both refused.

cause lebron ONLY had like 5 years left on his contract?

imma go with "they aint wanna live in cleveland"

  

Kobes a scorer thats what he does, thats what he likes to do. he gets 5 assists a game from the 2....he takes off from scoring to the 3rd sum nights to get assists....i mean cmon u see what lebron has to do in miami....Jordan never HAD or Chose to do that, Kobe never HAD or Chose to do that

look, he said kobe could CLEARLY average 8+ assists per night...

i dont see how that's CLEAR when dude doesnt even average 5 assists for his CAREER

how is dude SOOOOO sure when, like you said, he's never HAD or CHOSE to do it?

IF kobe wanted to pass, he could...

so IF lebron wanted a post game and to shoot fadeaway 3s, he could?

like i said, kobe aint average more than 6 assists a game any season in his CAREER, but its CLEAR that he could average 8+ if he wanted to?

  

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.
great post.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by CP1708

eNPHAN wrote:

LOL @ shaq started earlier this year when THE STARTING CENTER WAS OUT
  

He started the year before he came to the Cavs too.......

And the year before that.......

*shrugs* 

okay, and his peak ended after he played for the Heat....so we can agree he's on the downhill part of his career, right?

past his prime, right?

well, for the suns, the coach told him "you need to lose weight or we will bench you"

and he lost weight.

had a very marginal year, ESPECIALLY by SHAQ standards...

comes to cleveland, why? no idea. i was perplexed at the whole idea.....why would you get shaq during the last 3 years of his career? 

in cleveland, no coach tells him "yo, youre fat and out of shape....im going to bench you" cause cleveland didnt even have a coach, they had mike brown...

so now, shaq is looking for a team in the offseason...doc tells him"youre fat and out of shape" and he loses weight...

and he STILL isnt a starter...hes FILLING IN FOR AN INJURY

he's an INJURY STARTER.....

how are you proving me wrong with perkins starts over him?

   BTW, you mentioned the lack of talent Cleveland put around him, and you are correct, but um, do you plan on mentioning the fact that when he tried to recruit players, none of them wanted to sign unless he guaranteed that he would be staying?  Artest said no.  Ariza said no.  Shaq begged him to sign an extension.  Pretty sure Amare was interested in joining the Cavs if Bron signed a deal......so is some of that failure, not on Lebron for players not wanting to go there? 

oh, are you forgetting that the cavs play in CLEVELAND, OHIO?

Artest signed with LOS ANGELES, Ariza signed in HOUSTON Amar'e signed with NEW YORK........

you think it's because they were unsure about lebron?

how about the year they got larry hughes? they offered RAY ALLEN and MIKE REDD

both refused.

cause lebron ONLY had like 5 years left on his contract?

imma go with "they aint wanna live in cleveland"

  

Kobes a scorer thats what he does, thats what he likes to do. he gets 5 assists a game from the 2....he takes off from scoring to the 3rd sum nights to get assists....i mean cmon u see what lebron has to do in miami....Jordan never HAD or Chose to do that, Kobe never HAD or Chose to do that

look, he said kobe could CLEARLY average 8+ assists per night...

i dont see how that's CLEAR when dude doesnt even average 5 assists for his CAREER

how is dude SOOOOO sure when, like you said, he's never HAD or CHOSE to do it?

IF kobe wanted to pass, he could...

so IF lebron wanted a post game and to shoot fadeaway 3s, he could?

like i said, kobe aint average more than 6 assists a game any season in his CAREER, but its CLEAR that he could average 8+ if he wanted to?

  

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.
great post.

 

[bigtimejerky]

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

 

[bigtimejerky]

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

 

[hankmoody]

*#%% it. This isn't worth my time. 

 

[hankmoody]

*#%% it. This isn't worth my time. 

 

[Humbled]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

Very reasonable argument sir.

 

[Humbled]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

Very reasonable argument sir.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

way past his prime? obviously you dont know anything about basketball. if you ask all GM's if they'd take kobe on their team, all of them will say yes. reason people say he's the best player, cause he has the complete game. on offense and defense. lebron is a great player, but still relies too much on athleticism, that is why several have wondered how he'd do when he gets older. will he rely on his athletic abilities or will he develop a mid range game or post up game...

  

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

*#%% it. This isn't worth my time. 

get a life.

leave this post.

why are you still posting in my post?

to say "this isnt worth my time"

why bother logging in, typing in the quick reply box, then pressing reply?

i only allow beautiful womens to fondle my genetalia, sir...

please, remove yourself, you're making my girlfriend jealous
  


SINCE WHEN DOES HAVING ATHLETICISM MAKE YOU A FLAWED ATHLETE?

"if he wasnt so big and stong"

....but he IS....this is a LUXURY...this is something you WANT in an athlete...athleticism....theyre from the same root word!

that's like saying shaq wasnt the GOAT center because he was so big noone could stop him from dunking once he was within 5 feet of the rim.....he relied on his athletism too much?

tell that to vlade divac and all the other centers who's manhood he took over a 5 year streach...

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

*#%% it. This isn't worth my time. 

get a life.

leave this post.

why are you still posting in my post?

to say "this isnt worth my time"

why bother logging in, typing in the quick reply box, then pressing reply?

i only allow beautiful womens to fondle my genetalia, sir...

please, remove yourself, you're making my girlfriend jealous
  


SINCE WHEN DOES HAVING ATHLETICISM MAKE YOU A FLAWED ATHLETE?

"if he wasnt so big and stong"

....but he IS....this is a LUXURY...this is something you WANT in an athlete...athleticism....theyre from the same root word!

that's like saying shaq wasnt the GOAT center because he was so big noone could stop him from dunking once he was within 5 feet of the rim.....he relied on his athletism too much?

tell that to vlade divac and all the other centers who's manhood he took over a 5 year streach...

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

way past his prime? obviously you dont know anything about basketball. if you ask all GM's if they'd take kobe on their team, all of them will say yes. reason people say he's the best player, cause he has the complete game. on offense and defense. lebron is a great player, but still relies too much on athleticism, that is why several have wondered how he'd do when he gets older. will he rely on his athletic abilities or will he develop a mid range game or post up game...

  

 

[thesimplestlife]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

Best all around player of all time? Come on man, you're taking it too far. There are flaws in that statement, namely 1. you haven't seen some of the greatest players really play, 2. Lebron lacks a midrange game and settles for threes 3. Lebron has no post game, and he's 6'8'' 260+ lbs. Kobe's all around game is better than Bron's, although Lebron is more valuable than him. lets not get the two mixed up.

 

[thesimplestlife]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

Best all around player of all time? Come on man, you're taking it too far. There are flaws in that statement, namely 1. you haven't seen some of the greatest players really play, 2. Lebron lacks a midrange game and settles for threes 3. Lebron has no post game, and he's 6'8'' 260+ lbs. Kobe's all around game is better than Bron's, although Lebron is more valuable than him. lets not get the two mixed up.

 

[ace rawstein]

---

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

last i knew, gooden was coming off the bench for dallas...

please, name the starting PFs who antwan jamison would take a starting role from....

  

...well im not gonna do that but I will post his stats...im sure sumbody will take him...he can play the 3 as well...and Gooden w the Bucks starting up till he got hurt
i dont even know the point of this anymore

....

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[table][tr][td]Year[/td][td]Team[/td][td]G[/td][td]GS[/td][td]MPG[/td][td]FG%[/td][td]3P%[/td][td]FT%[/td][td]OFF[/td][td]DEF[/td][td]RPG[/td][td]APG[/td][td]SPG[/td][td]BPG[/td][td]TO[/td][td]PF[/td][td]PPG[/td][/tr][tr][td]1998-99[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]47 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]22.5 [/td][td].452 [/td][td].300 [/td][td].588 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.6 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]9.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]1999-00[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]43 [/td][td]41 [/td][td]36.2 [/td][td].471 [/td][td].286 [/td][td].611 [/td][td]4.0 [/td][td]4.3 [/td][td]8.3 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2000-01[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]41.4 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].302 [/td][td].715 [/td][td]3.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]8.7 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]24.9 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2001-02[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]37.0 [/td][td].447 [/td][td].324 [/td][td].734 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]4.2 [/td][td]6.8 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]39.3 [/td][td].470 [/td][td].311 [/td][td].789 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]4.7 [/td][td]7.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2003-04[/td][td]Mavericks [/td][td]82 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]29.0 [/td][td].535 [/td][td].400 [/td][td].748 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.5 [/td][td]6.3 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]14.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2004-05[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]68 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]38.3 [/td][td].437 [/td][td].341 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]7.6 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2005-06[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]82 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]40.1 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].394 [/td][td].731 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]7.3 [/td][td]9.3 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.1 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2006-07[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]70 [/td][td]70 [/td][td]38.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].364 [/td][td].736 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]6.1 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]19.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2007-08[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]79 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]38.8 [/td][td].436 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]7.5 [/td][td]10.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]21.4 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2008-09[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]81 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]38.2 [/td][td].468 [/td][td].351 [/td][td].754 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.5 [/td][td]8.9 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]25 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]32.4 [/td][td].485 [/td][td].342 [/td][td].506 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]6.2 [/td][td]7.7 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]15.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]41 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]39.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].345 [/td][td].700 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]8.8 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2010-11[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]49 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]32.1 [/td][td].419 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].730 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]5.1 [/td][td]6.6 [/td][td]1.6 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]17.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]Totals:[/td][td]913 [/td][td]850 [/td][td]36.5 [/td][td].454 [/td][td].346 [/td][td].728 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]5.5 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1555 [/td][td]2244 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][/table]

 

[ace rawstein]

---

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

last i knew, gooden was coming off the bench for dallas...

please, name the starting PFs who antwan jamison would take a starting role from....

  

...well im not gonna do that but I will post his stats...im sure sumbody will take him...he can play the 3 as well...and Gooden w the Bucks starting up till he got hurt
i dont even know the point of this anymore

....

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[table][tr][td]Year[/td][td]Team[/td][td]G[/td][td]GS[/td][td]MPG[/td][td]FG%[/td][td]3P%[/td][td]FT%[/td][td]OFF[/td][td]DEF[/td][td]RPG[/td][td]APG[/td][td]SPG[/td][td]BPG[/td][td]TO[/td][td]PF[/td][td]PPG[/td][/tr][tr][td]1998-99[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]47 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]22.5 [/td][td].452 [/td][td].300 [/td][td].588 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.6 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]9.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]1999-00[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]43 [/td][td]41 [/td][td]36.2 [/td][td].471 [/td][td].286 [/td][td].611 [/td][td]4.0 [/td][td]4.3 [/td][td]8.3 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2000-01[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]41.4 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].302 [/td][td].715 [/td][td]3.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]8.7 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]24.9 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2001-02[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]37.0 [/td][td].447 [/td][td].324 [/td][td].734 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]4.2 [/td][td]6.8 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]39.3 [/td][td].470 [/td][td].311 [/td][td].789 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]4.7 [/td][td]7.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2003-04[/td][td]Mavericks [/td][td]82 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]29.0 [/td][td].535 [/td][td].400 [/td][td].748 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.5 [/td][td]6.3 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]14.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2004-05[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]68 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]38.3 [/td][td].437 [/td][td].341 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]7.6 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2005-06[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]82 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]40.1 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].394 [/td][td].731 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]7.3 [/td][td]9.3 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.1 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2006-07[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]70 [/td][td]70 [/td][td]38.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].364 [/td][td].736 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]6.1 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]19.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2007-08[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]79 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]38.8 [/td][td].436 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]7.5 [/td][td]10.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]21.4 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2008-09[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]81 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]38.2 [/td][td].468 [/td][td].351 [/td][td].754 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.5 [/td][td]8.9 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]25 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]32.4 [/td][td].485 [/td][td].342 [/td][td].506 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]6.2 [/td][td]7.7 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]15.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]41 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]39.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].345 [/td][td].700 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]8.8 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2010-11[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]49 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]32.1 [/td][td].419 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].730 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]5.1 [/td][td]6.6 [/td][td]1.6 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]17.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]Totals:[/td][td]913 [/td][td]850 [/td][td]36.5 [/td][td].454 [/td][td].346 [/td][td].728 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]5.5 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1555 [/td][td]2244 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][/table]

 

[bigtimejerky]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

way past his prime? obviously you dont know anything about basketball. if you ask all GM's if they'd take kobe on their team, all of them will say yes. reason people say he's the best player, cause he has the complete game. on offense and defense. lebron is a great player, but still relies too much on athleticism, that is why several have wondered how he'd do when he gets older. will he rely on his athletic abilities or will he develop a mid range game or post up game...

  

Kobe chucking up shots= past his prime

I bet if they had they had a choice between Bron and Kobe, they'd all pick Bron.Why wouldn't he rely on athleticism? Hes 26. Exactly who knows what happens when he gets older... Do you? Does anyone?