Okay, can we FINALLY admit.....

[bigtimejerky]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

I blame Mike Brown for the failures in Cleveland more than anything. Their offensive scheme (if any) was HORRIBLE. All the players became dependent of Bron to have any success on the offensive end. Everything was ran through Bron while everyone else spotted up. Even when they had Shaq, they barely played off of him in the post. So now that Bron left, the current Cavs players are lost out of their minds just standing around the perimeter waiting for an open shot. Which is why he was the MVP of that team.

Its slightly a different story on the Heat for he now has players who can create their own shot, which in exchange drops his value to the team. But his leadership is what i believe is keeping him in the talks. He went back to "23" Bron while Wade and Bosh were out, and upped in value in the MVP talks. But now that Wade, Miller, and Bosh are back, I can see his stock value drop ONLY because he wont be the main focus as he was when they were out. Thats why i give DRose a slight edge in the MVP race.

But theres no doubt hes the best basketball player in the world and best all-round player of all time IMO. Why Kobe gets brought up in "current best player" arguments is beyond me. Hes way past his prime and definitely DOES NOT have the same impact on both ends as Lebron does on the court.

way past his prime? obviously you dont know anything about basketball. if you ask all GM's if they'd take kobe on their team, all of them will say yes. reason people say he's the best player, cause he has the complete game. on offense and defense. lebron is a great player, but still relies too much on athleticism, that is why several have wondered how he'd do when he gets older. will he rely on his athletic abilities or will he develop a mid range game or post up game...

  

Kobe chucking up shots= past his prime

I bet if they had they had a choice between Bron and Kobe, they'd all pick Bron.Why wouldn't he rely on athleticism? Hes 26. Exactly who knows what happens when he gets older... Do you? Does anyone?

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

---

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

last i knew, gooden was coming off the bench for dallas...

please, name the starting PFs who antwan jamison would take a starting role from....

  

...well im not gonna do that but I will post his stats...im sure sumbody will take him...he can play the 3 as well...and Gooden w the Bucks starting up till he got hurt
i dont even know the point of this anymore

....

/i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/misc/blank_pixel.gif);">http://i.cdn.turner.com/s...s/misc/blank_pixel.gif); font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px; margin-top: 6px; ">
[table][tr][td]Year[/td][td]Team[/td][td]G[/td][td]GS[/td][td]MPG[/td][td]FG%[/td][td]3P%[/td][td]FT%[/td][td]OFF[/td][td]DEF[/td][td]RPG[/td][td]APG[/td][td]SPG[/td][td]BPG[/td][td]TO[/td][td]PF[/td][td]PPG[/td][/tr][tr][td]1998-99[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]47 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]22.5 [/td][td].452 [/td][td].300 [/td][td].588 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.6 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]9.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]1999-00[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]43 [/td][td]41 [/td][td]36.2 [/td][td].471 [/td][td].286 [/td][td].611 [/td][td]4.0 [/td][td]4.3 [/td][td]8.3 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2000-01[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]41.4 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].302 [/td][td].715 [/td][td]3.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]8.7 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]24.9 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2001-02[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]37.0 [/td][td].447 [/td][td].324 [/td][td].734 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]4.2 [/td][td]6.8 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]39.3 [/td][td].470 [/td][td].311 [/td][td].789 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]4.7 [/td][td]7.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2003-04[/td][td]Mavericks [/td][td]82 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]29.0 [/td][td].535 [/td][td].400 [/td][td].748 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.5 [/td][td]6.3 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]14.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2004-05[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]68 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]38.3 [/td][td].437 [/td][td].341 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]7.6 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2005-06[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]82 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]40.1 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].394 [/td][td].731 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]7.3 [/td][td]9.3 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.1 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2006-07[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]70 [/td][td]70 [/td][td]38.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].364 [/td][td].736 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]6.1 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]19.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2007-08[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]79 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]38.8 [/td][td].436 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]7.5 [/td][td]10.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]21.4 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2008-09[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]81 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]38.2 [/td][td].468 [/td][td].351 [/td][td].754 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.5 [/td][td]8.9 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]25 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]32.4 [/td][td].485 [/td][td].342 [/td][td].506 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]6.2 [/td][td]7.7 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]15.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]41 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]39.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].345 [/td][td].700 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]8.8 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2010-11[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]49 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]32.1 [/td][td].419 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].730 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]5.1 [/td][td]6.6 [/td][td]1.6 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]17.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]Totals:[/td][td]913 [/td][td]850 [/td][td]36.5 [/td][td].454 [/td][td].346 [/td][td].728 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]5.5 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1555 [/td][td]2244 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][/table]

@ his statline for the cavs
  

somebody would TAKE him for sure, but START him over their STARTING PF?

NO NO NO, SIR

he can play 3, too? then name some 3s Jamison would start over...

you not naming anybody.



oh, drew gooden starts for the bucks, eh? BIG improvement over their previous starter, Charlie "the cancer",  how is that working out for them?

 

[MVP]

Think it's time for you to go back to general to fight the good ol race war fight.

Clearly you're arguing over nothing, are you bringing up anything that we didn't already know, Bron didn't play with the best case in CLE, ok we get it. But he has one of the best in the league now, so we'll see if it translates to him finally winning the big one.

You're just arguing just to argue at this point.

 

[MVP]

Think it's time for you to go back to general to fight the good ol race war fight.

Clearly you're arguing over nothing, are you bringing up anything that we didn't already know, Bron didn't play with the best case in CLE, ok we get it. But he has one of the best in the league now, so we'll see if it translates to him finally winning the big one.

You're just arguing just to argue at this point.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

---

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

Antwain Jamison will start for sum squads right now if he got traded, isnt Drew Gooden starting sumwhere n getting paid

last i knew, gooden was coming off the bench for dallas...

please, name the starting PFs who antwan jamison would take a starting role from....

  

...well im not gonna do that but I will post his stats...im sure sumbody will take him...he can play the 3 as well...and Gooden w the Bucks starting up till he got hurt
i dont even know the point of this anymore

....

/i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/misc/blank_pixel.gif);">http://i.cdn.turner.com/s...s/misc/blank_pixel.gif); font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px; margin-top: 6px; ">
[table][tr][td]Year[/td][td]Team[/td][td]G[/td][td]GS[/td][td]MPG[/td][td]FG%[/td][td]3P%[/td][td]FT%[/td][td]OFF[/td][td]DEF[/td][td]RPG[/td][td]APG[/td][td]SPG[/td][td]BPG[/td][td]TO[/td][td]PF[/td][td]PPG[/td][/tr][tr][td]1998-99[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]47 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]22.5 [/td][td].452 [/td][td].300 [/td][td].588 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.6 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]9.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]1999-00[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]43 [/td][td]41 [/td][td]36.2 [/td][td].471 [/td][td].286 [/td][td].611 [/td][td]4.0 [/td][td]4.3 [/td][td]8.3 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]0.7 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2000-01[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]41.4 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].302 [/td][td].715 [/td][td]3.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]8.7 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]24.9 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2001-02[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]37.0 [/td][td].447 [/td][td].324 [/td][td].734 [/td][td]2.6 [/td][td]4.2 [/td][td]6.8 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td][td]Warriors [/td][td]82 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]39.3 [/td][td].470 [/td][td].311 [/td][td].789 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]4.7 [/td][td]7.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2003-04[/td][td]Mavericks [/td][td]82 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]29.0 [/td][td].535 [/td][td].400 [/td][td].748 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]3.5 [/td][td]6.3 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]2.1 [/td][td]14.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2004-05[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]68 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]38.3 [/td][td].437 [/td][td].341 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]5.3 [/td][td]7.6 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.2 [/td][td]19.6 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2005-06[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]82 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]40.1 [/td][td].442 [/td][td].394 [/td][td].731 [/td][td]2.0 [/td][td]7.3 [/td][td]9.3 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.1 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2006-07[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]70 [/td][td]70 [/td][td]38.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].364 [/td][td].736 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]6.1 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.8 [/td][td]19.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2007-08[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]79 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]38.8 [/td][td].436 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].760 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]7.5 [/td][td]10.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]21.4 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2008-09[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]81 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]38.2 [/td][td].468 [/td][td].351 [/td][td].754 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.5 [/td][td]8.9 [/td][td]1.9 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]0.3 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]22.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]25 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]32.4 [/td][td].485 [/td][td].342 [/td][td].506 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]6.2 [/td][td]7.7 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.1 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.2 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]15.8 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2009-10[/td][td]Wizards [/td][td]41 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]39.0 [/td][td].450 [/td][td].345 [/td][td].700 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]6.4 [/td][td]8.8 [/td][td]1.3 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.2 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]2.7 [/td][td]20.5 [/td][/tr][tr][td]2010-11[/td][td]Cavaliers [/td][td]49 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]32.1 [/td][td].419 [/td][td].339 [/td][td].730 [/td][td]1.5 [/td][td]5.1 [/td][td]6.6 [/td][td]1.6 [/td][td]0.9 [/td][td]0.5 [/td][td]1.4 [/td][td]2.4 [/td][td]17.2 [/td][/tr][tr][td]Totals:[/td][td]913 [/td][td]850 [/td][td]36.5 [/td][td].454 [/td][td].346 [/td][td].728 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]5.5 [/td][td]8.0 [/td][td]1.7 [/td][td]1.0 [/td][td]0.4 [/td][td]1555 [/td][td]2244 [/td][td]19.7 [/td][/tr][/table]

@ his statline for the cavs
  

somebody would TAKE him for sure, but START him over their STARTING PF?

NO NO NO, SIR

he can play 3, too? then name some 3s Jamison would start over...

you not naming anybody.



oh, drew gooden starts for the bucks, eh? BIG improvement over their previous starter, Charlie "the cancer",  how is that working out for them?

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Think it's time for you to go back to general to fight the good ol race war fight.

Clearly you're arguing over nothing, are you bringing up anything that we didn't already know, Bron didn't play with the best case in CLE, ok we get it. But he has one of the best in the league now, so we'll see if it translates to him finally winning the big one.

You're just arguing just to argue at this point.

nah, im having my arguments nitpicked like "but shaq starts for boston!" when he's starting because of an injury

or "man, jamison can start somewhere, look at his stats" but not naming anybody


i already know i "won" this argument....

  

But he has one of the best in the league now, so we'll see if it translates to him finally winning the big one.
exactly.

(but remember, its cheating now that he has talent around him)

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Think it's time for you to go back to general to fight the good ol race war fight.

Clearly you're arguing over nothing, are you bringing up anything that we didn't already know, Bron didn't play with the best case in CLE, ok we get it. But he has one of the best in the league now, so we'll see if it translates to him finally winning the big one.

You're just arguing just to argue at this point.

nah, im having my arguments nitpicked like "but shaq starts for boston!" when he's starting because of an injury

or "man, jamison can start somewhere, look at his stats" but not naming anybody


i already know i "won" this argument....

  

But he has one of the best in the league now, so we'll see if it translates to him finally winning the big one.
exactly.

(but remember, its cheating now that he has talent around him)

 

[shoeking2101]

Come on, you guys, seriously.

Lebron has been the best in the League for at least the past three years. The guy shows no real weakness. He can shoot it, he gets to the line, he dribbles in elite fashion, he passes with a flair and efficiency unmatched by anyone in the league, He defends with the best of them, he's a hall of famer in the open court and from 15 feet and below (or for anything else for that matter) , he plays four positions, and let's not even go into statistics. I mean, what more do you want him to do? He's consistently out performed bryant almost every single time that they have played each other. Who could possibly be better than Lebron James right now?

Whoever you guys say is better than Lebron James you really are just talking out of pure opinion and straight up bias. You can't even support saying Bryant or whoever is better than James. He takes the three ball and makes the three ball more than bryant, I mean, what else does he have to do? The comparison between wade and James is far more of a debate than Bryant and James. Hell, even Melo vs James is a better debate than that.

Lebron does it all, and i'm not even a lebron james fan. This thread shouldn't even be 15 pages its that obvious.

 

[shoeking2101]

Come on, you guys, seriously.

Lebron has been the best in the League for at least the past three years. The guy shows no real weakness. He can shoot it, he gets to the line, he dribbles in elite fashion, he passes with a flair and efficiency unmatched by anyone in the league, He defends with the best of them, he's a hall of famer in the open court and from 15 feet and below (or for anything else for that matter) , he plays four positions, and let's not even go into statistics. I mean, what more do you want him to do? He's consistently out performed bryant almost every single time that they have played each other. Who could possibly be better than Lebron James right now?

Whoever you guys say is better than Lebron James you really are just talking out of pure opinion and straight up bias. You can't even support saying Bryant or whoever is better than James. He takes the three ball and makes the three ball more than bryant, I mean, what else does he have to do? The comparison between wade and James is far more of a debate than Bryant and James. Hell, even Melo vs James is a better debate than that.

Lebron does it all, and i'm not even a lebron james fan. This thread shouldn't even be 15 pages its that obvious.

 

[topherr]

he still has no rings. nor will he win one this year. TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

 

[topherr]

he still has no rings. nor will he win one this year. TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by topherr

he still has no rings. nor will he win one this year. TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

Can you tell us who is going to win it then, Ms. Cleo?

  

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by topherr

he still has no rings. nor will he win one this year. TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

Can you tell us who is going to win it then, Ms. Cleo?

  

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Come on, you guys, seriously.

Lebron has been the best in the League for at least the past three years. The guy shows no real weakness. He can shoot it, he gets to the line, he dribbles in elite fashion, he passes with a flair and efficiency unmatched by anyone in the league, He defends with the best of them, he's a hall of famer in the open court and from 15 feet and below (or for anything else for that matter) , he plays four positions, and let's not even go into statistics. I mean, what more do you want him to do? He's consistently out performed bryant almost every single time that they have played each other. Who could possibly be better than Lebron James right now?

Whoever you guys say is better than Lebron James you really are just talking out of pure opinion and straight up bias. You can't even support saying Bryant or whoever is better than James. He takes the three ball and makes the three ball more than bryant, I mean, what else does he have to do? The comparison between wade and James is far more of a debate than Bryant and James. Hell, even Melo vs James is a better debate than that.

Lebron does it all, and i'm not even a lebron james fan. This thread shouldn't even be 15 pages its that obvious.

so you all get excited when his team has the best record in the league, but when he gets to the playoffs he fails.. mmm, doesnt exactly scream like best player ever now does it? it's not like he's playing teams he's never played against.. he beat those teams in the regular season, yet he cant beat them in the playoffs?

again it is comparing 2 different players, 1 plays both perimeter and post, other one plays point forward. one turns it up in the 3rd and 4th other lets other shoot the ball in those quarters. and both players have different roles on their team.

say all you want, but kobe has been champion, lebron hasnt. lebron has even asked for players to come to cleveland, who did? shaq, jamison, and then when they lose it's not his fault? when he talked to management to get them? please... no one is saying he isnt a great player, but the greatest player on earth, or calling him LeGod.. uhm noo.. stop d-riding and go outside.. get some Vaj....

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Come on, you guys, seriously.

Lebron has been the best in the League for at least the past three years. The guy shows no real weakness. He can shoot it, he gets to the line, he dribbles in elite fashion, he passes with a flair and efficiency unmatched by anyone in the league, He defends with the best of them, he's a hall of famer in the open court and from 15 feet and below (or for anything else for that matter) , he plays four positions, and let's not even go into statistics. I mean, what more do you want him to do? He's consistently out performed bryant almost every single time that they have played each other. Who could possibly be better than Lebron James right now?

Whoever you guys say is better than Lebron James you really are just talking out of pure opinion and straight up bias. You can't even support saying Bryant or whoever is better than James. He takes the three ball and makes the three ball more than bryant, I mean, what else does he have to do? The comparison between wade and James is far more of a debate than Bryant and James. Hell, even Melo vs James is a better debate than that.

Lebron does it all, and i'm not even a lebron james fan. This thread shouldn't even be 15 pages its that obvious.

so you all get excited when his team has the best record in the league, but when he gets to the playoffs he fails.. mmm, doesnt exactly scream like best player ever now does it? it's not like he's playing teams he's never played against.. he beat those teams in the regular season, yet he cant beat them in the playoffs?

again it is comparing 2 different players, 1 plays both perimeter and post, other one plays point forward. one turns it up in the 3rd and 4th other lets other shoot the ball in those quarters. and both players have different roles on their team.

say all you want, but kobe has been champion, lebron hasnt. lebron has even asked for players to come to cleveland, who did? shaq, jamison, and then when they lose it's not his fault? when he talked to management to get them? please... no one is saying he isnt a great player, but the greatest player on earth, or calling him LeGod.. uhm noo.. stop d-riding and go outside.. get some Vaj....

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by topherr

he still has no rings. nor will he win one this year. TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

But that is not HIS fault. Why are you bringing up this point as if this is a one on one contest?

From True Hoop

Peter D. Newmann of ESPN Statistics and Information Research is looking at the Cavaliers when he points out: "No team in NBA history has gone from best to worst in the NBA from one year to the next."

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by topherr

he still has no rings. nor will he win one this year. TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

But that is not HIS fault. Why are you bringing up this point as if this is a one on one contest?

From True Hoop

Peter D. Newmann of ESPN Statistics and Information Research is looking at the Cavaliers when he points out: "No team in NBA history has gone from best to worst in the NBA from one year to the next."

 

[38816]

no team ever.

what is the main contributing factor?

(they have a BETTER coach, stats lost by shaq and z are more than made up by hixon, delonte west prolly played 20 games last year.....so REALLY, who is to blame?)

its like twisting yalls arm to say it...

just admit it.

itll make everyone feel better.

 

[38816]

no team ever.

what is the main contributing factor?

(they have a BETTER coach, stats lost by shaq and z are more than made up by hixon, delonte west prolly played 20 games last year.....so REALLY, who is to blame?)

its like twisting yalls arm to say it...

just admit it.

itll make everyone feel better.

 

[shoeking2101]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Come on, you guys, seriously.

Lebron has been the best in the League for at least the past three years. The guy shows no real weakness. He can shoot it, he gets to the line, he dribbles in elite fashion, he passes with a flair and efficiency unmatched by anyone in the league, He defends with the best of them, he's a hall of famer in the open court and from 15 feet and below (or for anything else for that matter) , he plays four positions, and let's not even go into statistics. I mean, what more do you want him to do? He's consistently out performed bryant almost every single time that they have played each other. Who could possibly be better than Lebron James right now?

Whoever you guys say is better than Lebron James you really are just talking out of pure opinion and straight up bias. You can't even support saying Bryant or whoever is better than James. He takes the three ball and makes the three ball more than bryant, I mean, what else does he have to do? The comparison between wade and James is far more of a debate than Bryant and James. Hell, even Melo vs James is a better debate than that.

Lebron does it all, and i'm not even a lebron james fan. This thread shouldn't even be 15 pages its that obvious.

so you all get excited when his team has the best record in the league, but when he gets to the playoffs he fails.. mmm, doesnt exactly scream like best player ever now does it? it's not like he's playing teams he's never played against.. he beat those teams in the regular season, yet he cant beat them in the playoffs?

again it is comparing 2 different players, 1 plays both perimeter and post, other one plays point forward. one turns it up in the 3rd and 4th other lets other shoot the ball in those quarters. and both players have different roles on their team.

say all you want, but kobe has been champion, lebron hasnt. lebron has even asked for players to come to cleveland, who did? shaq, jamison, and then when they lose it's not his fault? when he talked to management to get them? please... no one is saying he isnt a great player, but the greatest player on earth, or calling him LeGod.. uhm noo.. stop d-riding and go outside.. get some Vaj....

   Aye I bet I get more play than you. Lol real**** though.

But yeah, wth you talking about man? This is exactly what I be talking about. How can you say this without support man? First you say he can't win in the playoffs against teams he beat in the regular season. My point has nothing to do with team. He excells (sp?) against these same teams in the regular season as he does in the playoffs. In fact, there is proof that his production increases in the playoffs.

Next you say they are two different players. That's fine, but if one does almost everything better than the other, idc about the different styles, its obvious one is more effective. Then you say one "Turns it up in the 3rd and 4th quarter" when again, there is proof that Lebron has one of the most, if not the most, highest scoring averages in the fourth.

Then you say Lebron hasn't been a champion. You got me on that one. Lebron hasn't been a champion. Damn, guess Mark Madsen and Samaki Walker and the Steve Kerr's of the world are? The Karl Malone's and Reggie Miller's of the world aren't champions either, but you are right. And you talk about loosing faith? Kobe bryant DEMANDED to be traded. Said he would rather play in pluto than the lakers. That's loosing faith bro. And I've never called him "Legod" or anything, but he is far away the best player in the league, and has been for the past three years.

 

[shoeking2101]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Come on, you guys, seriously.

Lebron has been the best in the League for at least the past three years. The guy shows no real weakness. He can shoot it, he gets to the line, he dribbles in elite fashion, he passes with a flair and efficiency unmatched by anyone in the league, He defends with the best of them, he's a hall of famer in the open court and from 15 feet and below (or for anything else for that matter) , he plays four positions, and let's not even go into statistics. I mean, what more do you want him to do? He's consistently out performed bryant almost every single time that they have played each other. Who could possibly be better than Lebron James right now?

Whoever you guys say is better than Lebron James you really are just talking out of pure opinion and straight up bias. You can't even support saying Bryant or whoever is better than James. He takes the three ball and makes the three ball more than bryant, I mean, what else does he have to do? The comparison between wade and James is far more of a debate than Bryant and James. Hell, even Melo vs James is a better debate than that.

Lebron does it all, and i'm not even a lebron james fan. This thread shouldn't even be 15 pages its that obvious.

so you all get excited when his team has the best record in the league, but when he gets to the playoffs he fails.. mmm, doesnt exactly scream like best player ever now does it? it's not like he's playing teams he's never played against.. he beat those teams in the regular season, yet he cant beat them in the playoffs?

again it is comparing 2 different players, 1 plays both perimeter and post, other one plays point forward. one turns it up in the 3rd and 4th other lets other shoot the ball in those quarters. and both players have different roles on their team.

say all you want, but kobe has been champion, lebron hasnt. lebron has even asked for players to come to cleveland, who did? shaq, jamison, and then when they lose it's not his fault? when he talked to management to get them? please... no one is saying he isnt a great player, but the greatest player on earth, or calling him LeGod.. uhm noo.. stop d-riding and go outside.. get some Vaj....

   Aye I bet I get more play than you. Lol real**** though.

But yeah, wth you talking about man? This is exactly what I be talking about. How can you say this without support man? First you say he can't win in the playoffs against teams he beat in the regular season. My point has nothing to do with team. He excells (sp?) against these same teams in the regular season as he does in the playoffs. In fact, there is proof that his production increases in the playoffs.

Next you say they are two different players. That's fine, but if one does almost everything better than the other, idc about the different styles, its obvious one is more effective. Then you say one "Turns it up in the 3rd and 4th quarter" when again, there is proof that Lebron has one of the most, if not the most, highest scoring averages in the fourth.

Then you say Lebron hasn't been a champion. You got me on that one. Lebron hasn't been a champion. Damn, guess Mark Madsen and Samaki Walker and the Steve Kerr's of the world are? The Karl Malone's and Reggie Miller's of the world aren't champions either, but you are right. And you talk about loosing faith? Kobe bryant DEMANDED to be traded. Said he would rather play in pluto than the lakers. That's loosing faith bro. And I've never called him "Legod" or anything, but he is far away the best player in the league, and has been for the past three years.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

[h3]To win MVP, win games[/h3]
February, 8, 2011
Feb 8

11:33

AM ET

• Email
• Print
• Comments67

By Henry Abbott
Archive

Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images Sport
Brilliant guard Derrick Rose faces big obstacles in an MVP bid -- mainly the Bulls' record.

A couple of weeks ago, I wrote that Derrick Rose was lucky to be considered a leading candidate for MVP.

A lot of people have been telling me how much I underappreciate Rose. That's not the point! I love that guy. He's humble, hardworking, fun as hell to watch and (despite what Nicolas Batum says) improving by the second.

I'm not making any judgment about who should be the MVP. (For now, let John Hollinger and Brian Windhorst speak to that.)

I'm talking who usually wins, fair or not.

And who usually wins the MVP award? I just dug in and found out: the star of a team that wins 75 percent of its games, and who very often leads the league in scoring or some other kinds of production (expressed here as player efficiency rating). That's the deal.

Of course, we all know that great players can be stuck on so-so teams. But evidence is that MVP voters don't think like that. To them, there's a certain profile. And a look at the past 20 years shows that it's essential to play for a team with a top-four NBA record.

Winning is king
MVPs come from teams that win a ton. Period. At the moment, many of those mentioned as MVP candidates (Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant, New Orleans' Chris Paul, the Lakers' Kobe Bryant, Chicago's Derrick Rose, Orlando's Dwight Howard, New York's Amare Stoudemire) play for teams that would need to climb the standings to give their stars credible cases by the standards of the past 20 years, when:

• Every MVP came from a team that finished with a top-four record leaguewide.
• Seventeen of 20 MVPs were from a team with one of the two best records in the NBA.
• Nineteen of 20 MVPs (or all of them if you toss that outlier Steve Nash 2005-06 award from the analysis) came from a team with one of the NBA's three best records.
• MVPs' teams, on average, won 62 games (after adjusting for the lockout shortened 1998-99 season) a season, or about a 75 percent clip.

This season, only San Antonio is on a better pace, while just Boston, Miami and Dallas join San Antonio in winning more than 70 percent of their games.

This is why Basketball-Reference's MVP predictor tool, based on historical patterns showing that wins, points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game and win shares per game are paramount to voters, suggests that the top four candidates all play for the Heat and Spurs.

If you're not winning a hell of a lot of games, you'd better have some really special story to sway voters at the polls -- just as Steve Nash was once the Pied Piper of an entirely new, eye-catching brand of basketball.

• Fifteen of the past 20 MVPs ranked first overall in one of more out of points per game, regular-season wins or PER.
• Every MVP not named Steve Nash was top-three in at least one of those categories, and Nash led the league in assists.
• Michael Jordan (in 1991-92) and Shaquille O'Neal (in 1999-2000) were the only two MVPs in the past two decades to finish the regular season first in points per game, wins and PER. However, eight of the past 20 finished first in two or more of those categories.

[h4]The players MVP voters love[/h4]
During the past 20 years, winning an MVP award has essentially required a top-three NBA record, and extremely high scoring and PER are important, too.
[table][tr][th=""]MVP[/th][th=""]Points per game (rank)[/th][th=""]Wins (rank)[/th][th=""]PER (rank)[/th][/tr][tr][td]LeBron James 2009-10[/td][td]29.7 (2)[/td][td]61 (1)[/td][td]31.1 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]LeBron James 2008-09[/td][td]28.4 (2)[/td][td]66 (1)[/td][td]31.7 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kobe Bryant 2007-08[/td][td]28.3 (2)[/td][td]57 (3)[/td][td]24.2 (

[/td][/tr][tr][td]Dirk Nowitzki 2006-07[/td][td]24.6 (11)[/td][td]67 (1)[/td][td]27.6 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Steve Nash 2005-06[/td][td]18.8 (29)[/td][td]54 (4)[/td][td]23.3 (12)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Steve Nash 2004-05[/td][td]15.5 (40)[/td][td]62 (1)[/td][td]22 (15)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kevin Garnett 2003-04[/td][td]24.2 (3)[/td][td]58 (2)[/td][td]29.4 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Tim Duncan 2002-03[/td][td]23.3 (7)[/td][td]60 (1)[/td][td]26.9 (3)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Tim Duncan 2001-02[/td][td]25.5 (5)[/td][td]58 (2)[/td][td]27 (2)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Allen Iverson 2000-01[/td][td]31.1 (1)[/td][td]56 (3)[/td][td]24 (7)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Shaquille O'Neal 1999-2000[/td][td]29.7 (1)[/td][td]67 (1)[/td][td]30.6 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Karl Malone 1998-99[/td][td]23.8 (3)[/td][td]37 (2 -- lockout)[/td][td]25.6 (2)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1997-98[/td][td]28.7 (1)[/td][td]62 (2)[/td][td]25.2 (4)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Karl Malone 1996-97[/td][td]27.4 (2)[/td][td]64 (2)[/td][td]28.9 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1995-96[/td][td]30.4 (1)[/td][td]72 (1)[/td][td]29.4 (2)[/td][/tr][tr][td]David Robinson 1994-95[/td][td]27.6 (3)[/td][td]62 (1)[/td][td]29.1 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Hakeem Olajuwon 1993-94[/td][td]27.3 (3)[/td][td]58 (2)[/td][td]25.3 (3)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Charles Barkley 1992-93[/td][td]25.6 (5)[/td][td]62 (1)[/td][td]25.9 (4)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1991-92[/td][td]30.1 (1)[/td][td]67 (1)[/td][td]27.7 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1990-91[/td][td]31.5 (1)[/td][td]61 (2)[/td][td]31.6 (1)[/td][/tr][/table]

All data courtesy of the NBA and its new StatsCube tool.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

[h3]To win MVP, win games[/h3]
February, 8, 2011
Feb 8

11:33

AM ET

• Email
• Print
• Comments67

By Henry Abbott
Archive

Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images Sport
Brilliant guard Derrick Rose faces big obstacles in an MVP bid -- mainly the Bulls' record.

A couple of weeks ago, I wrote that Derrick Rose was lucky to be considered a leading candidate for MVP.

A lot of people have been telling me how much I underappreciate Rose. That's not the point! I love that guy. He's humble, hardworking, fun as hell to watch and (despite what Nicolas Batum says) improving by the second.

I'm not making any judgment about who should be the MVP. (For now, let John Hollinger and Brian Windhorst speak to that.)

I'm talking who usually wins, fair or not.

And who usually wins the MVP award? I just dug in and found out: the star of a team that wins 75 percent of its games, and who very often leads the league in scoring or some other kinds of production (expressed here as player efficiency rating). That's the deal.

Of course, we all know that great players can be stuck on so-so teams. But evidence is that MVP voters don't think like that. To them, there's a certain profile. And a look at the past 20 years shows that it's essential to play for a team with a top-four NBA record.

Winning is king
MVPs come from teams that win a ton. Period. At the moment, many of those mentioned as MVP candidates (Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant, New Orleans' Chris Paul, the Lakers' Kobe Bryant, Chicago's Derrick Rose, Orlando's Dwight Howard, New York's Amare Stoudemire) play for teams that would need to climb the standings to give their stars credible cases by the standards of the past 20 years, when:

• Every MVP came from a team that finished with a top-four record leaguewide.
• Seventeen of 20 MVPs were from a team with one of the two best records in the NBA.
• Nineteen of 20 MVPs (or all of them if you toss that outlier Steve Nash 2005-06 award from the analysis) came from a team with one of the NBA's three best records.
• MVPs' teams, on average, won 62 games (after adjusting for the lockout shortened 1998-99 season) a season, or about a 75 percent clip.

This season, only San Antonio is on a better pace, while just Boston, Miami and Dallas join San Antonio in winning more than 70 percent of their games.

This is why Basketball-Reference's MVP predictor tool, based on historical patterns showing that wins, points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game and win shares per game are paramount to voters, suggests that the top four candidates all play for the Heat and Spurs.

If you're not winning a hell of a lot of games, you'd better have some really special story to sway voters at the polls -- just as Steve Nash was once the Pied Piper of an entirely new, eye-catching brand of basketball.

• Fifteen of the past 20 MVPs ranked first overall in one of more out of points per game, regular-season wins or PER.
• Every MVP not named Steve Nash was top-three in at least one of those categories, and Nash led the league in assists.
• Michael Jordan (in 1991-92) and Shaquille O'Neal (in 1999-2000) were the only two MVPs in the past two decades to finish the regular season first in points per game, wins and PER. However, eight of the past 20 finished first in two or more of those categories.

[h4]The players MVP voters love[/h4]
During the past 20 years, winning an MVP award has essentially required a top-three NBA record, and extremely high scoring and PER are important, too.
[table][tr][th=""]MVP[/th][th=""]Points per game (rank)[/th][th=""]Wins (rank)[/th][th=""]PER (rank)[/th][/tr][tr][td]LeBron James 2009-10[/td][td]29.7 (2)[/td][td]61 (1)[/td][td]31.1 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]LeBron James 2008-09[/td][td]28.4 (2)[/td][td]66 (1)[/td][td]31.7 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kobe Bryant 2007-08[/td][td]28.3 (2)[/td][td]57 (3)[/td][td]24.2 (

[/td][/tr][tr][td]Dirk Nowitzki 2006-07[/td][td]24.6 (11)[/td][td]67 (1)[/td][td]27.6 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Steve Nash 2005-06[/td][td]18.8 (29)[/td][td]54 (4)[/td][td]23.3 (12)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Steve Nash 2004-05[/td][td]15.5 (40)[/td][td]62 (1)[/td][td]22 (15)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kevin Garnett 2003-04[/td][td]24.2 (3)[/td][td]58 (2)[/td][td]29.4 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Tim Duncan 2002-03[/td][td]23.3 (7)[/td][td]60 (1)[/td][td]26.9 (3)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Tim Duncan 2001-02[/td][td]25.5 (5)[/td][td]58 (2)[/td][td]27 (2)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Allen Iverson 2000-01[/td][td]31.1 (1)[/td][td]56 (3)[/td][td]24 (7)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Shaquille O'Neal 1999-2000[/td][td]29.7 (1)[/td][td]67 (1)[/td][td]30.6 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Karl Malone 1998-99[/td][td]23.8 (3)[/td][td]37 (2 -- lockout)[/td][td]25.6 (2)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1997-98[/td][td]28.7 (1)[/td][td]62 (2)[/td][td]25.2 (4)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Karl Malone 1996-97[/td][td]27.4 (2)[/td][td]64 (2)[/td][td]28.9 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1995-96[/td][td]30.4 (1)[/td][td]72 (1)[/td][td]29.4 (2)[/td][/tr][tr][td]David Robinson 1994-95[/td][td]27.6 (3)[/td][td]62 (1)[/td][td]29.1 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Hakeem Olajuwon 1993-94[/td][td]27.3 (3)[/td][td]58 (2)[/td][td]25.3 (3)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Charles Barkley 1992-93[/td][td]25.6 (5)[/td][td]62 (1)[/td][td]25.9 (4)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1991-92[/td][td]30.1 (1)[/td][td]67 (1)[/td][td]27.7 (1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan 1990-91[/td][td]31.5 (1)[/td][td]61 (2)[/td][td]31.6 (1)[/td][/tr][/table]

All data courtesy of the NBA and its new StatsCube tool.

 

[JD617]

its like twisting yalls arm to say it...

just admit it.

itll make everyone feel better.
We get it. We really, really get it. Most people in here agree that Lebron is the best in the league and has been for some time now.

As for the few misguided people who don't agree, who cares? Being insufferable isn't gonna change anyone's mind.

 

[JD617]

its like twisting yalls arm to say it...

just admit it.

itll make everyone feel better.
We get it. We really, really get it. Most people in here agree that Lebron is the best in the league and has been for some time now.

As for the few misguided people who don't agree, who cares? Being insufferable isn't gonna change anyone's mind.