Only 47% Percent Of African American Males Graduate Highschool

[rossh123]

Originally Posted by newmoanyuh

I never trust or believe statistics.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by cguy610

I'll keep this short.

The stats are something I already knew. I just wish they would show exactly how poorly many of the schools are performing. So before you assume that these kids are lazy or whatever, take a look at the average scores on standardized tests like the SAT's for some of these schools in your area and think about what benefit a diploma is from a school in which the average SAT score is a 700. And that is the average score, which is higher than it really should be because the struggling students are dropping out instead of taking the SAT and being included in that SAT score pool.

Then there is a major issue with the curriculum.  The students at these underperforming schools don't have the same chance to go to college, therefore a college based curriculum is a major waste of time.  These students need to be prepared to go into some type of vocational job/trade right out of high school.  However, these schools are trying to teach a college based curriculum when their average SAT score is a 600.  They are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. 

I understand your point, but what you're essentially saying is that because these kids/schools have traditionally underperformed then we should lower our expectations and make high school graduation the goal instead of aspiring for college and beyond.

In a climate where it's a fact the majority of people can not and will not get a job without a bachelors degree, let alone a postgraduate degree (as is becoming the necessity just to earn enough at your job to support a full family) why would we make the focus teaching kids vocational skills?

I understand the concept of "baby steps" and wanting these kids to just be productive members of society but IT'S NOT ENOUGH.  Taking that route within the next several years graduation rates would definitely be up but all the children will be prepared for is the blue collar workforce (where frankly there are close to zero jobs as is.)  Meanwhile middle to upper class children will continue to make strides, making the divide between the classes (and unfortunately, but honestly, the races) even greater.

How can college be the goal when the school isn't capable of getting them on a college reading and math level? 

They need to be productive members of society.  I wouldn't call it 0 jobs in the blue collar workforce.  There definitely are less jobs though.  People can be productive members of society as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc.  Not only does this make them at least productive members of society, it keeps them out of jail and away from drugs.

The middle class hasn't and isn't making strides, the middle class is shrinking and becoming the poor class.  This is a country in which the divide between rich and poor is the greatest it's ever been.  

This whole movement towards getting a Masters degree/Ph.D or nothing is taking our country in the wrong direction.  Not everybody is fit or wants to go to school for 25 years or so.  There's jobs and money right there in the community, however, many people allow others to MISEDUCATE them into this whole "college or nothing" movement while outsiders come in and open up shop in your community and take your money out of the community. 

You're not thinking broadly enough.  Yes you can GET a job in your community being a janitor or an electrician or whatever, but can you support a family of 4 on that?  Hell depending where you're from it's hard enough to support just yourself on just a $28k a year salary which honestly is what most of those jobs will pay you.  The cost of living is up.  Being a productive member of society is nice in the grand scheme because you're providing a service to people and not out committing crimes but on a personal level if you're barely making ends meet, living pay check to pay check and unable to provide for your family what they need (forget want) then vocational school is not enough.

We need to aspire for more!  Part of the problem is money is being allocated wrongly/unfairly/or just isnt being opened up for these poor communities.  Most of the people making those decisions have BAs and post graduate degrees.  If the people FROM the communities being affected by these decisions are content with just doign enough to stay out of jail and open up bodegas or be plumbers and aren't reaching for these leadership positions who is really going to care enough to argue for the change to help those who want more out of their lives get it?

No, setting the bar at "ok let's get a high school degree or GED first" isn't enough!  That shouldn't even be a question.  We need to change the mentality in these communities and schools so graduating from high school is a foregone conclusion and drop outs are the anomaly.  Then we have to get kids wanting to go to GOOD schools, not just community colleges (no offense to anyone) and give them the understanding and belief that if they want to go get a postgraduate degree they can and it's not just for white/rich people.

Setting the bar at doing just enough to get through high school isn't the answer because then you get kids with the skewed mindset that well if i just show up and hand in C- work every day then I can get out of here and get a job.  The reality is those are the kids who either never make it out of high school because they put in so little effort, or if they do they can't hold on to a job because they spent their entire lives just doing enough to get by and in an ultra competitive market that's NEVER enough.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by cguy610

I'll keep this short.

The stats are something I already knew. I just wish they would show exactly how poorly many of the schools are performing. So before you assume that these kids are lazy or whatever, take a look at the average scores on standardized tests like the SAT's for some of these schools in your area and think about what benefit a diploma is from a school in which the average SAT score is a 700. And that is the average score, which is higher than it really should be because the struggling students are dropping out instead of taking the SAT and being included in that SAT score pool.

Then there is a major issue with the curriculum.  The students at these underperforming schools don't have the same chance to go to college, therefore a college based curriculum is a major waste of time.  These students need to be prepared to go into some type of vocational job/trade right out of high school.  However, these schools are trying to teach a college based curriculum when their average SAT score is a 600.  They are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. 

I understand your point, but what you're essentially saying is that because these kids/schools have traditionally underperformed then we should lower our expectations and make high school graduation the goal instead of aspiring for college and beyond.

In a climate where it's a fact the majority of people can not and will not get a job without a bachelors degree, let alone a postgraduate degree (as is becoming the necessity just to earn enough at your job to support a full family) why would we make the focus teaching kids vocational skills?

I understand the concept of "baby steps" and wanting these kids to just be productive members of society but IT'S NOT ENOUGH.  Taking that route within the next several years graduation rates would definitely be up but all the children will be prepared for is the blue collar workforce (where frankly there are close to zero jobs as is.)  Meanwhile middle to upper class children will continue to make strides, making the divide between the classes (and unfortunately, but honestly, the races) even greater.

How can college be the goal when the school isn't capable of getting them on a college reading and math level? 

They need to be productive members of society.  I wouldn't call it 0 jobs in the blue collar workforce.  There definitely are less jobs though.  People can be productive members of society as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc.  Not only does this make them at least productive members of society, it keeps them out of jail and away from drugs.

The middle class hasn't and isn't making strides, the middle class is shrinking and becoming the poor class.  This is a country in which the divide between rich and poor is the greatest it's ever been.  

This whole movement towards getting a Masters degree/Ph.D or nothing is taking our country in the wrong direction.  Not everybody is fit or wants to go to school for 25 years or so.  There's jobs and money right there in the community, however, many people allow others to MISEDUCATE them into this whole "college or nothing" movement while outsiders come in and open up shop in your community and take your money out of the community. 

You're not thinking broadly enough.  Yes you can GET a job in your community being a janitor or an electrician or whatever, but can you support a family of 4 on that?  Hell depending where you're from it's hard enough to support just yourself on just a $28k a year salary which honestly is what most of those jobs will pay you.  The cost of living is up.  Being a productive member of society is nice in the grand scheme because you're providing a service to people and not out committing crimes but on a personal level if you're barely making ends meet, living pay check to pay check and unable to provide for your family what they need (forget want) then vocational school is not enough.

We need to aspire for more!  Part of the problem is money is being allocated wrongly/unfairly/or just isnt being opened up for these poor communities.  Most of the people making those decisions have BAs and post graduate degrees.  If the people FROM the communities being affected by these decisions are content with just doign enough to stay out of jail and open up bodegas or be plumbers and aren't reaching for these leadership positions who is really going to care enough to argue for the change to help those who want more out of their lives get it?

No, setting the bar at "ok let's get a high school degree or GED first" isn't enough!  That shouldn't even be a question.  We need to change the mentality in these communities and schools so graduating from high school is a foregone conclusion and drop outs are the anomaly.  Then we have to get kids wanting to go to GOOD schools, not just community colleges (no offense to anyone) and give them the understanding and belief that if they want to go get a postgraduate degree they can and it's not just for white/rich people.

Setting the bar at doing just enough to get through high school isn't the answer because then you get kids with the skewed mindset that well if i just show up and hand in C- work every day then I can get out of here and get a job.  The reality is those are the kids who either never make it out of high school because they put in so little effort, or if they do they can't hold on to a job because they spent their entire lives just doing enough to get by and in an ultra competitive market that's NEVER enough.

 

[shoeking2101]

We got Obama now though...

 

[shoeking2101]

We got Obama now though...

 

[shoeking2101]

Double

 

[shoeking2101]

Double

 

[tommykairaa]

Originally Posted by rossh123

Originally Posted by newmoanyuh

I never trust or believe statistics.

 

[tommykairaa]

Originally Posted by rossh123

Originally Posted by newmoanyuh

I never trust or believe statistics.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by cguy610

How can college be the goal when the school isn't capable of getting them on a college reading and math level? 

They need to be productive members of society.  I wouldn't call it 0 jobs in the blue collar workforce.  There definitely are less jobs though.  People can be productive members of society as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc.  Not only does this make them at least productive members of society, it keeps them out of jail and away from drugs.

The middle class hasn't and isn't making strides, the middle class is shrinking and becoming the poor class.  This is a country in which the divide between rich and poor is the greatest it's ever been.  

This whole movement towards getting a Masters degree/Ph.D or nothing is taking our country in the wrong direction.  Not everybody is fit or wants to go to school for 25 years or so.  There's jobs and money right there in the community, however, many people allow others to MISEDUCATE them into this whole "college or nothing" movement while outsiders come in and open up shop in your community and take your money out of the community. 

You're not thinking broadly enough.  Yes you can GET a job in your community being a janitor or an electrician or whatever, but can you support a family of 4 on that?  Hell depending where you're from it's hard enough to support just yourself on just a $28k a year salary which honestly is what most of those jobs will pay you.  The cost of living is up.  Being a productive member of society is nice in the grand scheme because you're providing a service to people and not out committing crimes but on a personal level if you're barely making ends meet, living pay check to pay check and unable to provide for your family what they need (forget want) then vocational school is not enough.

We need to aspire for more!  Part of the problem is money is being allocated wrongly/unfairly/or just isnt being opened up for these poor communities.  Most of the people making those decisions have BAs and post graduate degrees.  If the people FROM the communities being affected by these decisions are content with just doign enough to stay out of jail and open up bodegas or be plumbers and aren't reaching for these leadership positions who is really going to care enough to argue for the change to help those who want more out of their lives get it?

No, setting the bar at "ok let's get a high school degree or GED first" isn't enough!  That shouldn't even be a question.  We need to change the mentality in these communities and schools so graduating from high school is a foregone conclusion and drop outs are the anomaly.  Then we have to get kids wanting to go to GOOD schools, not just community colleges (no offense to anyone) and give them the understanding and belief that if they want to go get a postgraduate degree they can and it's not just for white/rich people.

Setting the bar at doing just enough to get through high school isn't the answer because then you get kids with the skewed mindset that well if i just show up and hand in C- work every day then I can get out of here and get a job.  The reality is those are the kids who either never make it out of high school because they put in so little effort, or if they do they can't hold on to a job because they spent their entire lives just doing enough to get by and in an ultra competitive market that's NEVER enough.

I'm thinking broadly.  I'm just thinking in terms of right now.  As in today, what can we do to stop this.  You can't go into an underperforming school today and say, "you need to strive to go to college" when the underperforming school can't even get them on a college math and reading level.

First you have to get the kids in the school.  Which consists of getting them GED's.  You do that by connecting real life to school.  Right now, telling kids about colleges that they can't afford to attend or won't get accepted is not connecting real life to school.  That is telling them a fantasy and the kids can see through it.  

This isn't setting the bar low, this is setting a achievable realistic goal for everybody and not some fantasy world lie of everybody making it to college right away.  I agree with you in the long term, however right now how could you suggest that everyone strive for a college education when you see the SAT scores like the ones I posted on the page before. 

Also, I disagree about being able to support your family on a job as a janitor or whatever for $28K.  If you have 2 people working, you can support a family.  He may not live the way you or I want to live, may not have a car, but a person can put a roof over their head and feed and clothe them.  Maybe the janitor doesn't make it to college but he can see to it that his children do and the next generation is better off than his.  

Anyways, this brings me back to what I was saying earlier, we are allowing people to brainwash us into thinking that opening up a bodega or being an electrician or mechanic in your own community isn't a good way of living.  While immigrants come over into our neighborhoods, open up shop, take our money and put their kids through college on that restaurant/bodega/dry cleaner money.   We need to stop falling for the okey doke.  

You are acting as if a dollar is worth more in the hands of a college educated person than a person with a high school diploma.  A dollar is a dollar and will buy the same amount of goods and services.  You have people going to college and can't find $28K jobs.  When you go into a restaurant, do you ask if they have a college degree?  No.  You might ask if the food is good.  Then you pay the man for your food. 
    

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by cguy610

How can college be the goal when the school isn't capable of getting them on a college reading and math level? 

They need to be productive members of society.  I wouldn't call it 0 jobs in the blue collar workforce.  There definitely are less jobs though.  People can be productive members of society as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc.  Not only does this make them at least productive members of society, it keeps them out of jail and away from drugs.

The middle class hasn't and isn't making strides, the middle class is shrinking and becoming the poor class.  This is a country in which the divide between rich and poor is the greatest it's ever been.  

This whole movement towards getting a Masters degree/Ph.D or nothing is taking our country in the wrong direction.  Not everybody is fit or wants to go to school for 25 years or so.  There's jobs and money right there in the community, however, many people allow others to MISEDUCATE them into this whole "college or nothing" movement while outsiders come in and open up shop in your community and take your money out of the community. 

You're not thinking broadly enough.  Yes you can GET a job in your community being a janitor or an electrician or whatever, but can you support a family of 4 on that?  Hell depending where you're from it's hard enough to support just yourself on just a $28k a year salary which honestly is what most of those jobs will pay you.  The cost of living is up.  Being a productive member of society is nice in the grand scheme because you're providing a service to people and not out committing crimes but on a personal level if you're barely making ends meet, living pay check to pay check and unable to provide for your family what they need (forget want) then vocational school is not enough.

We need to aspire for more!  Part of the problem is money is being allocated wrongly/unfairly/or just isnt being opened up for these poor communities.  Most of the people making those decisions have BAs and post graduate degrees.  If the people FROM the communities being affected by these decisions are content with just doign enough to stay out of jail and open up bodegas or be plumbers and aren't reaching for these leadership positions who is really going to care enough to argue for the change to help those who want more out of their lives get it?

No, setting the bar at "ok let's get a high school degree or GED first" isn't enough!  That shouldn't even be a question.  We need to change the mentality in these communities and schools so graduating from high school is a foregone conclusion and drop outs are the anomaly.  Then we have to get kids wanting to go to GOOD schools, not just community colleges (no offense to anyone) and give them the understanding and belief that if they want to go get a postgraduate degree they can and it's not just for white/rich people.

Setting the bar at doing just enough to get through high school isn't the answer because then you get kids with the skewed mindset that well if i just show up and hand in C- work every day then I can get out of here and get a job.  The reality is those are the kids who either never make it out of high school because they put in so little effort, or if they do they can't hold on to a job because they spent their entire lives just doing enough to get by and in an ultra competitive market that's NEVER enough.

I'm thinking broadly.  I'm just thinking in terms of right now.  As in today, what can we do to stop this.  You can't go into an underperforming school today and say, "you need to strive to go to college" when the underperforming school can't even get them on a college math and reading level.

First you have to get the kids in the school.  Which consists of getting them GED's.  You do that by connecting real life to school.  Right now, telling kids about colleges that they can't afford to attend or won't get accepted is not connecting real life to school.  That is telling them a fantasy and the kids can see through it.  

This isn't setting the bar low, this is setting a achievable realistic goal for everybody and not some fantasy world lie of everybody making it to college right away.  I agree with you in the long term, however right now how could you suggest that everyone strive for a college education when you see the SAT scores like the ones I posted on the page before. 

Also, I disagree about being able to support your family on a job as a janitor or whatever for $28K.  If you have 2 people working, you can support a family.  He may not live the way you or I want to live, may not have a car, but a person can put a roof over their head and feed and clothe them.  Maybe the janitor doesn't make it to college but he can see to it that his children do and the next generation is better off than his.  

Anyways, this brings me back to what I was saying earlier, we are allowing people to brainwash us into thinking that opening up a bodega or being an electrician or mechanic in your own community isn't a good way of living.  While immigrants come over into our neighborhoods, open up shop, take our money and put their kids through college on that restaurant/bodega/dry cleaner money.   We need to stop falling for the okey doke.  

You are acting as if a dollar is worth more in the hands of a college educated person than a person with a high school diploma.  A dollar is a dollar and will buy the same amount of goods and services.  You have people going to college and can't find $28K jobs.  When you go into a restaurant, do you ask if they have a college degree?  No.  You might ask if the food is good.  Then you pay the man for your food. 
    

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Gucci Mane

Originally Posted by rashi

Blaming low graduation rates on a single parent home is such a lame excuse and an easy cop out.

it might not the sole reason but it does play a role. I assume you were raised by both your parents.

Your assumption is wrong. The reason why I can say it's a lame excuse is because the kids in low economic areas in Baltimore were getting vouchers and scholarships to attend high profile private schools in D.C. did exponentially better as far as grades, test scores, and even in self confidence. So it isn't a lack of a father figure being around.

Rashi....that's a small % and a SELECT # of students from Baltimore who do this.  And what I mean by "select" is that these kids were essentially hand-picked to attend these private schools.  Those kids are the exception.  These private schools that want kids from the inner-city go through an extensive process as far as admission.  It's nice for them to have diversity in their hallways, but let's be real....the kids they accept have a TON of potential.  They are not the 17 year old freshman...they are not the kids who show that they can't contribute to society in a positive manner, etc....

Not denying that, but at the same time it solidifies my point that it isn't a lack of a parent or both. The kids were doing poorly in an inner-city school with most likely poor teachers and violence, they get an opportunity to flourish under the direction of a competent teacher and they are successful. Why should that be a surprise to anyone. You can have all the potential in the world and be super bright, but when you are surrounded by people who aren't on your level or have a teacher that isn't challenging you, it will bring your standards down and the kids settle. It's like playing basketball with a bunch of scrubs.

It shouldn't be a secret to the low graduation rates come about because of the lack of competent teachers facilitating the education and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that it just happens to be in low economic neighborhoods. You have to understand that in costs a district more money to fire a bad teacher than to keep them, obviously the best teachers are going to teach in schools in bad neighborhoods. So what happens now? The bad teachers get transferred and recycled in the bureaucracy to bad schools, since most of the students in those schools are less likely to complain about the performance of the teacher, they settle with it.

So a strong male presence at home(father usually) would make no difference at all? And the kids who do get vouchers, do well because they have a better environment where they can learn. Im saying being raised in a single parent home is a factor that contributes to the situation. Im not saying its the sole reason.

Not really, I grew up in a single mother home. I dealt with a lot of psychological issues growing up as a kid because I felt neglected by my father and every time he would come back in and try to play "pops" I was apprehensive because I didn't even know this dude trying to be my father. It took me about 18 years to finally get over what I went through, but it never effected my performance in school, it never effected my performance on the basketball court, and it never effected how I handled business. For the record, I went to public school in Broward County and if you look on the Yes We Can List, it's 11 points higher than NYC and third in the Country. It gets a lot of attention down here because the Teachers of The Year have been laid off because a lot of the don't have the tenure most bad teachers do. So there goes to show the priorities of the government run education, it's about politics, not about education.

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Gucci Mane

Originally Posted by rashi

Blaming low graduation rates on a single parent home is such a lame excuse and an easy cop out.

it might not the sole reason but it does play a role. I assume you were raised by both your parents.

Your assumption is wrong. The reason why I can say it's a lame excuse is because the kids in low economic areas in Baltimore were getting vouchers and scholarships to attend high profile private schools in D.C. did exponentially better as far as grades, test scores, and even in self confidence. So it isn't a lack of a father figure being around.

Rashi....that's a small % and a SELECT # of students from Baltimore who do this.  And what I mean by "select" is that these kids were essentially hand-picked to attend these private schools.  Those kids are the exception.  These private schools that want kids from the inner-city go through an extensive process as far as admission.  It's nice for them to have diversity in their hallways, but let's be real....the kids they accept have a TON of potential.  They are not the 17 year old freshman...they are not the kids who show that they can't contribute to society in a positive manner, etc....

Not denying that, but at the same time it solidifies my point that it isn't a lack of a parent or both. The kids were doing poorly in an inner-city school with most likely poor teachers and violence, they get an opportunity to flourish under the direction of a competent teacher and they are successful. Why should that be a surprise to anyone. You can have all the potential in the world and be super bright, but when you are surrounded by people who aren't on your level or have a teacher that isn't challenging you, it will bring your standards down and the kids settle. It's like playing basketball with a bunch of scrubs.

It shouldn't be a secret to the low graduation rates come about because of the lack of competent teachers facilitating the education and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that it just happens to be in low economic neighborhoods. You have to understand that in costs a district more money to fire a bad teacher than to keep them, obviously the best teachers are going to teach in schools in bad neighborhoods. So what happens now? The bad teachers get transferred and recycled in the bureaucracy to bad schools, since most of the students in those schools are less likely to complain about the performance of the teacher, they settle with it.

So a strong male presence at home(father usually) would make no difference at all? And the kids who do get vouchers, do well because they have a better environment where they can learn. Im saying being raised in a single parent home is a factor that contributes to the situation. Im not saying its the sole reason.

Not really, I grew up in a single mother home. I dealt with a lot of psychological issues growing up as a kid because I felt neglected by my father and every time he would come back in and try to play "pops" I was apprehensive because I didn't even know this dude trying to be my father. It took me about 18 years to finally get over what I went through, but it never effected my performance in school, it never effected my performance on the basketball court, and it never effected how I handled business. For the record, I went to public school in Broward County and if you look on the Yes We Can List, it's 11 points higher than NYC and third in the Country. It gets a lot of attention down here because the Teachers of The Year have been laid off because a lot of the don't have the tenure most bad teachers do. So there goes to show the priorities of the government run education, it's about politics, not about education.

 

[juggy4805]

That is sad. I am trying to end the cycle for my family's generation. College will be the norm in my household and not some special thing that a select few get to accomplish.

I won't say it is a racial thing, it is a social class thing. Blacks and Latinos just happen to be a big majority of the social class that is in poverty.

 

[mo matik]

No one mentioned legalization of drugs as a quick and simple way to increase these numbers?

Legalization would bring drugs out of the inner cities putting a huge hole into the nationwide gang problem.

 

[juggy4805]

That is sad. I am trying to end the cycle for my family's generation. College will be the norm in my household and not some special thing that a select few get to accomplish.

I won't say it is a racial thing, it is a social class thing. Blacks and Latinos just happen to be a big majority of the social class that is in poverty.

 

[mo matik]

No one mentioned legalization of drugs as a quick and simple way to increase these numbers?

Legalization would bring drugs out of the inner cities putting a huge hole into the nationwide gang problem.

 

[frshstunna]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by cguy610

How can college be the goal when the school isn't capable of getting them on a college reading and math level? 

They need to be productive members of society.  I wouldn't call it 0 jobs in the blue collar workforce.  There definitely are less jobs though.  People can be productive members of society as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc.  Not only does this make them at least productive members of society, it keeps them out of jail and away from drugs.

The middle class hasn't and isn't making strides, the middle class is shrinking and becoming the poor class.  This is a country in which the divide between rich and poor is the greatest it's ever been.  

This whole movement towards getting a Masters degree/Ph.D or nothing is taking our country in the wrong direction.  Not everybody is fit or wants to go to school for 25 years or so.  There's jobs and money right there in the community, however, many people allow others to MISEDUCATE them into this whole "college or nothing" movement while outsiders come in and open up shop in your community and take your money out of the community. 

You're not thinking broadly enough.  Yes you can GET a job in your community being a janitor or an electrician or whatever, but can you support a family of 4 on that?  Hell depending where you're from it's hard enough to support just yourself on just a $28k a year salary which honestly is what most of those jobs will pay you.  The cost of living is up.  Being a productive member of society is nice in the grand scheme because you're providing a service to people and not out committing crimes but on a personal level if you're barely making ends meet, living pay check to pay check and unable to provide for your family what they need (forget want) then vocational school is not enough.

We need to aspire for more!  Part of the problem is money is being allocated wrongly/unfairly/or just isnt being opened up for these poor communities.  Most of the people making those decisions have BAs and post graduate degrees.  If the people FROM the communities being affected by these decisions are content with just doign enough to stay out of jail and open up bodegas or be plumbers and aren't reaching for these leadership positions who is really going to care enough to argue for the change to help those who want more out of their lives get it?

No, setting the bar at "ok let's get a high school degree or GED first" isn't enough!  That shouldn't even be a question.  We need to change the mentality in these communities and schools so graduating from high school is a foregone conclusion and drop outs are the anomaly.  Then we have to get kids wanting to go to GOOD schools, not just community colleges (no offense to anyone) and give them the understanding and belief that if they want to go get a postgraduate degree they can and it's not just for white/rich people.

Setting the bar at doing just enough to get through high school isn't the answer because then you get kids with the skewed mindset that well if i just show up and hand in C- work every day then I can get out of here and get a job.  The reality is those are the kids who either never make it out of high school because they put in so little effort, or if they do they can't hold on to a job because they spent their entire lives just doing enough to get by and in an ultra competitive market that's NEVER enough.

I'm thinking broadly.  I'm just thinking in terms of right now.  As in today, what can we do to stop this.  You can't go into an underperforming school today and say, "you need to strive to go to college" when the underperforming school can't even get them on a college math and reading level.

First you have to get the kids in the school.  Which consists of getting them GED's.  You do that by connecting real life to school.  Right now, telling kids about colleges that they can't afford to attend or won't get accepted is not connecting real life to school.  That is telling them a fantasy and the kids can see through it.  

This isn't setting the bar low, this is setting a achievable realistic goal for everybody and not some fantasy world lie of everybody making it to college right away.  I agree with you in the long term, however right now how could you suggest that everyone strive for a college education when you see the SAT scores like the ones I posted on the page before. 

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Also, I disagree about being able to support your family on a job as a janitor or whatever for $28K.  If you have 2 people working, you can support a family.  He may not live the way you or I want to live, may not have a car, but a person can put a roof over their head and feed and clothe them.  Maybe the janitor doesn't make it to college but he can see to it that his children do and the next generation is better off than his.[/color]  

Anyways, this brings me back to what I was saying earlier, we are allowing people to brainwash us into thinking that opening up a bodega or being an electrician or mechanic in your own community isn't a good way of living.  While immigrants come over into our neighborhoods, open up shop, take our money and put their kids through college on that restaurant/bodega/dry cleaner money.   We need to stop falling for the okey doke.  

You are acting as if a dollar is worth more in the hands of a college educated person than a person with a high school diploma.  A dollar is a dollar and will buy the same amount of goods and services.  You have people going to college and can't find $28K jobs.  When you go into a restaurant, do you ask if they have a college degree?  No.  You might ask if the food is good.  Then you pay the man for your food. 
    

I agree with this.  Once u start by having kids graduate high school then get a job, they will encourage their children to definitely finish high school and most likely go to college. Parents who finished high school wouldnt let their kids drop out.

 

[frshstunna]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by cguy610

How can college be the goal when the school isn't capable of getting them on a college reading and math level? 

They need to be productive members of society.  I wouldn't call it 0 jobs in the blue collar workforce.  There definitely are less jobs though.  People can be productive members of society as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc.  Not only does this make them at least productive members of society, it keeps them out of jail and away from drugs.

The middle class hasn't and isn't making strides, the middle class is shrinking and becoming the poor class.  This is a country in which the divide between rich and poor is the greatest it's ever been.  

This whole movement towards getting a Masters degree/Ph.D or nothing is taking our country in the wrong direction.  Not everybody is fit or wants to go to school for 25 years or so.  There's jobs and money right there in the community, however, many people allow others to MISEDUCATE them into this whole "college or nothing" movement while outsiders come in and open up shop in your community and take your money out of the community. 

You're not thinking broadly enough.  Yes you can GET a job in your community being a janitor or an electrician or whatever, but can you support a family of 4 on that?  Hell depending where you're from it's hard enough to support just yourself on just a $28k a year salary which honestly is what most of those jobs will pay you.  The cost of living is up.  Being a productive member of society is nice in the grand scheme because you're providing a service to people and not out committing crimes but on a personal level if you're barely making ends meet, living pay check to pay check and unable to provide for your family what they need (forget want) then vocational school is not enough.

We need to aspire for more!  Part of the problem is money is being allocated wrongly/unfairly/or just isnt being opened up for these poor communities.  Most of the people making those decisions have BAs and post graduate degrees.  If the people FROM the communities being affected by these decisions are content with just doign enough to stay out of jail and open up bodegas or be plumbers and aren't reaching for these leadership positions who is really going to care enough to argue for the change to help those who want more out of their lives get it?

No, setting the bar at "ok let's get a high school degree or GED first" isn't enough!  That shouldn't even be a question.  We need to change the mentality in these communities and schools so graduating from high school is a foregone conclusion and drop outs are the anomaly.  Then we have to get kids wanting to go to GOOD schools, not just community colleges (no offense to anyone) and give them the understanding and belief that if they want to go get a postgraduate degree they can and it's not just for white/rich people.

Setting the bar at doing just enough to get through high school isn't the answer because then you get kids with the skewed mindset that well if i just show up and hand in C- work every day then I can get out of here and get a job.  The reality is those are the kids who either never make it out of high school because they put in so little effort, or if they do they can't hold on to a job because they spent their entire lives just doing enough to get by and in an ultra competitive market that's NEVER enough.

I'm thinking broadly.  I'm just thinking in terms of right now.  As in today, what can we do to stop this.  You can't go into an underperforming school today and say, "you need to strive to go to college" when the underperforming school can't even get them on a college math and reading level.

First you have to get the kids in the school.  Which consists of getting them GED's.  You do that by connecting real life to school.  Right now, telling kids about colleges that they can't afford to attend or won't get accepted is not connecting real life to school.  That is telling them a fantasy and the kids can see through it.  

This isn't setting the bar low, this is setting a achievable realistic goal for everybody and not some fantasy world lie of everybody making it to college right away.  I agree with you in the long term, however right now how could you suggest that everyone strive for a college education when you see the SAT scores like the ones I posted on the page before. 

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Also, I disagree about being able to support your family on a job as a janitor or whatever for $28K.  If you have 2 people working, you can support a family.  He may not live the way you or I want to live, may not have a car, but a person can put a roof over their head and feed and clothe them.  Maybe the janitor doesn't make it to college but he can see to it that his children do and the next generation is better off than his.[/color]  

Anyways, this brings me back to what I was saying earlier, we are allowing people to brainwash us into thinking that opening up a bodega or being an electrician or mechanic in your own community isn't a good way of living.  While immigrants come over into our neighborhoods, open up shop, take our money and put their kids through college on that restaurant/bodega/dry cleaner money.   We need to stop falling for the okey doke.  

You are acting as if a dollar is worth more in the hands of a college educated person than a person with a high school diploma.  A dollar is a dollar and will buy the same amount of goods and services.  You have people going to college and can't find $28K jobs.  When you go into a restaurant, do you ask if they have a college degree?  No.  You might ask if the food is good.  Then you pay the man for your food. 
    

I agree with this.  Once u start by having kids graduate high school then get a job, they will encourage their children to definitely finish high school and most likely go to college. Parents who finished high school wouldnt let their kids drop out.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

No one mentioned legalization of drugs as a quick and simple way to increase these numbers?

Legalization would bring drugs out of the inner cities putting a huge hole into the nationwide gang problem.

Do you know how much money prisons are making off of the drug war?

  

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

No one mentioned legalization of drugs as a quick and simple way to increase these numbers?

Legalization would bring drugs out of the inner cities putting a huge hole into the nationwide gang problem.

Do you know how much money prisons are making off of the drug war?

  

 

[wisepharoah]

The never ending story. To my man that replied to me "stop saying your people,"I'm sorry but I'm black I don't just associate with blacks or have racial issues but when I go out into the world I'm black when I sign a form I'm black. So yeah black people are my people. I don't believe in seperation of race but currently the world does. Your "do you" attitude is the reason why we are in this situation. Hell everyone is out for self and only theirs that the paradigm HUMANITY is in curently and nothing is gonna get solved that way.... period! This situation is impossible only because of the poisons that we inject everyday. Our music,lifestlyes and values are $%! backwards education is just one of the many issues we have. Get unplugged first. Cut all the noise out your life through the media and programming. None of this +*#! is accidental and as society becomes more dependent upon technology everything is only going to get worse.

 

[wisepharoah]

The never ending story. To my man that replied to me "stop saying your people,"I'm sorry but I'm black I don't just associate with blacks or have racial issues but when I go out into the world I'm black when I sign a form I'm black. So yeah black people are my people. I don't believe in seperation of race but currently the world does. Your "do you" attitude is the reason why we are in this situation. Hell everyone is out for self and only theirs that the paradigm HUMANITY is in curently and nothing is gonna get solved that way.... period! This situation is impossible only because of the poisons that we inject everyday. Our music,lifestlyes and values are $%! backwards education is just one of the many issues we have. Get unplugged first. Cut all the noise out your life through the media and programming. None of this +*#! is accidental and as society becomes more dependent upon technology everything is only going to get worse.

 

[nikekidwonder]

Originally Posted by Nike Star Jay

Originally Posted by TheHype

I mean... may sound effed up but

...less competition for me

I've expressed the same sentiment before and have no shame. Of course I'm really saddened to always hear about these horrible statistics about black people (most of which are likely exaggerated) but these same statistics are making it all the more easy for "educated black men" like myself to get into great schools, acquire powerful corporate positions, etc.

It's a bittersweet situation.

Am sorry but this has got to be one of the stupidest most selfish things i ever read 
Your basically saying you accept the role as a token black man the one black guy thats at a good school and one black guy who's at a good job its people like you that make it hard for us to advance because instead of caring about your people you only care about yourself and your own success 

smh 

The higher up you get you will start to see less and less people that look like you and you know how sad that is if you get in a place of power try and help but don't sit there and say stupid $*%* like that it only helps "There" cause 

 

[nikekidwonder]

Originally Posted by Nike Star Jay

Originally Posted by TheHype

I mean... may sound effed up but

...less competition for me

I've expressed the same sentiment before and have no shame. Of course I'm really saddened to always hear about these horrible statistics about black people (most of which are likely exaggerated) but these same statistics are making it all the more easy for "educated black men" like myself to get into great schools, acquire powerful corporate positions, etc.

It's a bittersweet situation.

Am sorry but this has got to be one of the stupidest most selfish things i ever read 
Your basically saying you accept the role as a token black man the one black guy thats at a good school and one black guy who's at a good job its people like you that make it hard for us to advance because instead of caring about your people you only care about yourself and your own success 

smh 

The higher up you get you will start to see less and less people that look like you and you know how sad that is if you get in a place of power try and help but don't sit there and say stupid $*%* like that it only helps "There" cause