Perception Vs Reality? A conversation about "Real Hip Hop vs Fake Hip Hop" , and Generational Divide

[wavycrocket]

 

[tay1]

Haven't watched it yet. No such thing as real hip hop. Real hip hop is whatever said person say's it is.

The older generation will always look down on what the younger generation is doing. I'm pretty sure the originators, who was still heavily disco and funk influenced looked down on the **** LL and Run DMC was doing and so forth, so there's always gonna be a generational divide. Older folks never wanna listen to the youngins, and don't let them talk. Youngins don't respect the older folks and feel they can do what they want.

 

[wavycrocket]

Really good listen. I wouldn't expect a guy like MURS to have such an open, nuanced ear....and that kind of understanding on this topic.

Theres a part in the video where he mentions how the purveyors and audience of "real hip hop"...don't often reflect the demographic and background of what the core fan base of Future or Migos look like. And the part about "rocking the party" vs "idol worship"....and the hypocrisy of imitation of flows, styles etc since Hip hops inception.

The barriers to entry have been lowered significantly now though....hence hip hop being watered down now imo

 

[Sir San Diego]

I can’t remember where I first heard the idea mentioned, but Hip Hop should be divided into genres or subcategories. Rock music has metal, death metal, hard rock, speed metal, etc. Why is all RAP lumped into one category? All rap is not Hip Hop.

Hip Hop is the four elements, boom bap music. Then you have gangsta, stunt/floss, jungle, dance hall, crunk, pop, swag, etc. I think trying to classify all rap as Hip Hop is dumb. It’s not. If a country singer raps (they do now) is that Hip Hop?

 

[Chopper]

Murs 3:16, the 9th Edition

 

[tay1]

I can’t remember where I first heard the idea mentioned, but Hip Hop should be divided into genres or subcategories. Rock music has metal, death metal, hard rock, speed metal, etc. Why is all RAP lumped into one category? All rap is not Hip Hop.

Hip Hop is the four elements, boom bap music. Then you have gangsta, stunt/floss, jungle, dance hall, crunk, pop, swag, etc. I think trying to classify all rap as Hip Hop is dumb. It’s not. If a country singer raps (they do now) is that Hip Hop?

Ok subgenres are created. And then what? What changes? Not a damn thing. If anything, having more genres can cause more bad than good, and rock music can be a testament to that.

People love bringing this like like it means anything

 

[combo gd]

I can’t remember where I first heard the idea mentioned, but Hip Hop should be divided into genres or subcategories. Rock music has metal, death metal, hard rock, speed metal, etc. Why is all RAP lumped into one category? All rap is not Hip Hop.

Hip Hop is the four elements, boom bap music. Then you have gangsta, stunt/floss, jungle, dance hall, crunk, pop, swag, etc. I think trying to classify all rap as Hip Hop is dumb. It’s not. If a country singer raps (they do now) is that Hip Hop?

The reason there are no subcategories for hip hop is because grouping "ignorant" rap with "positive" rap makes it easier to discredit ALL rap. Since rap is a genre practiced predominately by black men, it is important that the entire subculture be grouped together. That way when one negative song, visual, or incident involves a black rapper... it makes it easier to discredit the entire genre, and the entire black race.

 

[Sir San Diego]

Ok subgenres are created. And then what? What changes? Not a damn thing.

People love bringing this like like it means anything

Right. Might as well just call it music. It’s just people rhythmically putting words over instrument sounds. No different than country, gospel or reggae. What changes by calling it Hip Hop?

 

[trynafeelmink]

i get the points he was trying to make and some of them are on point, but using Das EFX as an example as if they were the norm of that era, or comparing the rhymes of people who literally just created the Genre..... to people coming 40+ years later after all the adhancements to the genre is a bit lazy. As far as content goes while drugs, violence, materialism was present in the music it would also be a 1000% lie to say that the music back then wasn't way more balanced. Those elements were just a part of the story.... in the music people may not deem real rap, there is literally nothing but those aspects discussed for 95% of the songs.

Also what wasn't touched on was the authenticity that most rappers had back then, and how dedicated you had to be to hip hop culture to get into it. And while their were similar names & similar break beats (in the very beginning of the genre)........ originality was absolutely a 1000% needed back then compared to now, he lost me with that one. Dudes would legitimately not **** with you if you were biting somebody else ****.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Ok subgenres are created. And then what? What changes? Not a damn thing. If anything, having more genres can cause more bad than good, and rock music can be a testament to that.

People love bringing this like like it means anything

Like homie above said everyone isn't lumped together & rap that isn't in tune with the popular sound would have a much easier way of getting some light, because they wouldn't be competing with "rappers" who put no effort into their craft. it makes it easier to differentiate & support when things are split up.

Surely you could go and SEARCH for quality rap, but incase you haven't noticed a lot of people in the world our lazy & need things simplified for them, & breaking it into sun categories would make that much easier.

 

[tay1]

i get the points he was trying to make and some of them are on point, but using Das EFX as an example as if they were the norm of that era, or comparing the rhymes of people who literally just created the Genre..... to people coming 40+ years later after all the adhancements to the genre is a bit lazy. As far as content goes while drugs, violence, materialism was present in the music it would also be a 1000% lie to say that the music back then wasn't way more balanced. Those elements were just a part of the story.... in the music people may not deem real rap, there is literally nothing but those aspects discussed for 95% of the songs.

Also what wasn't touched on was the authenticity that most rappers had back then, and how dedicated you had to be to hip hop culture to get into it. And while their were similar names & similar break beats (in the very beginning of the genre)........ originality was absolutely a 1000% needed back then compared to now, he lost me with that one. Dudes would legitimately not **** with you if you were biting somebody else ****.

Nothing exists without looking at what came before and emulating it. After the first crop of rappers and who we know as OG's, who's trully original besides a handful?

 

[tay1]

Like homie above said everyone isn't lumped together & rap that isn't in tune with the popular sound would have a much easier way of getting some light, because they wouldn't be competing with "rappers" who put no effort into their craft. it makes it easier to differentiate & support when things are split up.

Surely you could go and SEARCH for quality rap, but incase you haven't noticed a lot of people in the world our lazy & need things simplified for them, & breaking it into sun categories would make that much easier.

The thing is that rap doesn't have much variety to the point where subgenres are needed. The most variety that existed was regional sounds. West Coast Music. East Coast Music, etc...

 

[ekinskywalker]

One thing I don't like is Graffiti artists filing lawsuits against luxe brands for use of their street art....

I always thought they were marks for that

 

[trynafeelmink]

What would you call the first crop of rappers.... i would assume the 80's.... after that you have what many people would consider the best era in rap

Jay, Big, Dre, Pac, Snoop, Eazy, Scarface, Luke, Master P UGK, Tribe, De la soul, Raekwon, Ghost, ODB........ this could literally go on for dozens upon dozens of artist. Even if the subject matter was the similar all were VERY distinct in sound, flows, beats, style, slang etc etc & that's just talking solely mainstream artist.

 

[tay1]

What would you call the first crop of rappers.... i would assume the 80's.... after that you have what many people would consider the best era in rap

Jay, Big, Dre, Pac, Snoop, Eazy, Scarface, Luke, Master P UGK, Tribe, De la soul, Raekwon, Ghost, ODB........ this could literally go on for dozens upon dozens of artist. Even if the subject matter was the similar all were VERY distinct in sound, flows, beats, style, slang etc etc & that's just talking solely mainstream artist.

And that's due to hip hop still being so young at the time. There was room for all those lanes to exist

 

[Andrew S. Lam]

I'm a fan of Eminem, Lil Jon, Dolla, people like that

 

[brendasdeadbaby]

All art is subjective. No such thing as "real hip hop"

 

[trynafeelmink]

The thing is that rap doesn't have much variety to the point where subgenres are needed. The most variety that existed was regional sounds. West Coast Music. East Coast Music, etc...

Drake makes a certain sound, Kendrick Makes a certain sound, Future makes a certain sound, The lil dread ****** make a certain sound, Kid Cudi makes a certain sound etc etc.... it could easily be split up, but again like dude above stated the overall cloud on hiphop from the outside looking in. Is that it's nothing but profanity laced, violent, numbing materialism.

If you don't really have someone to guide you and you turn on your local radio station you would never know that there's hiphop you can learn from, hip hop that promotes positivity & love etc etc. that Stigma has been removed from the genre, however more people have embraced the negatives parts of hip hop on a grand scale

Also Future & Migos shows, unless they are specifically in the hood DO NOT represent the cultre they speak of. them ****s are filled with just as many white suburban kids as a run the jewels show, except those kids actually FEEL like their connected to the things these rappers are talking about.

 

[HOU$TON]

Interesting

 

[gwap]

people need to stop trying to choose what is real or fake hiphop....

need to start focusing on whats good or garbage hiphop

 

[doublemesh96]

It’s all trash

 

[wavycrocket]

Also Future & Migos shows, unless they are specifically in the hood DO NOT represent the cultre they speak of. them ****s are filled with just as many white suburban kids as a run the jewels show, except those kids actually FEEL like their connected to the things these rappers are talking about.

The Core audience of Future and Migos is far different from the core audience of many of the new "backpack rappers".

That's how these two acts in particular got popping again. They went back to their core audience....and the pop audience eventually caught on again once it was "cool to like them".

I was actually at this concert. Smaller venue at Echo Stage a few years ago. Energy is waaaay different than the Drake & Future tour a year later.



You go to the places where hip hop culture is best reflected....you'll see people really connecting with some of the artists that people from outside of the culture call "fake hip hop".

 

[Nawzlew]

just wanted to chime in on something

people praise kendrick lyrically, but sometimes his verses make no sense whatsoever and people chalk it up to "not being intelligent enough to undersatnd" or it "having a deeper message"

just me or nah?


i am a fan of kendrick tho

 

[Chiron]

Early hip hop wasn't more "real" and wasn't always more meaningful. But I think it was more more vocal for sure. Vocals were the centerpiece. Now beats are the centerpiece. Producers are just as important as the "MC" at this point. Diversity started to fade after about 2007. Things got very "pop" rap. One downside to the formula of catchy beats is that people go into a sort of trance rather than being woken up and called to actions... they are kind of pacified into watching the flashy, violent, or superficial.. to the point of desensitization to issues and sedation with drugs.

 

[doublemesh96]