Quentin Tarantinos Movie Thread - “THE MOVIE CRITIC” no longer his final film

[jpzx]

Bill Simmons and Wesley Morris seemed to think the criticism of Bruce Lee’s portrayal is shortsighted, because the point was that scene was a recollection from Cliff’s memory, and not necessarily true to what happened—but just how Cliff remembered it, or wants to remember it.

Hence the dent in the car, which never physically could’ve happened. May be Cliff just overly embellishing a moment that he is trying to recall regarding when his career sort of ended.

 

[tr1ll]

Bill Simmons and Wesley Morris seemed to think the criticism of Bruce Lee’s portrayal is shortsighted, because the point was that scene was a recollection from Cliff’s memory, and not necessarily true to what happened—but just how Cliff remembered it, or wants to remember it.

Hence the dent in the car, which never physically could’ve happened. May be Cliff just overly embellishing a moment that he is trying to recall regarding when his career sort of ended.

If this is the case, that’s ALL QT had to say. All this, “I didn’t make this up” nonsense sounds crazy. Bruce Lee died when he was 10 years old. He don’t know how he talked outside the moviess

 

[Master Zik]

I honestly don’t care about the Bruce Lee stuff. The liberties he took with the Sharon Tate murder was more offensive.

What liberties?

He created two fictional Hollywood characters and invovled them in events. Its a big what if.

QT been established this given his movies exist in a different universe with a different world history.

 

[danger style]

Bill Simmons and Wesley Morris seemed to think the criticism of Bruce Lee’s portrayal is shortsighted, because the point was that scene was a recollection from Cliff’s memory, and not necessarily true to what happened—but just how Cliff remembered it, or wants to remember it.

Hence the dent in the car, which never physically could’ve happened. May be Cliff just overly embellishing a moment that he is trying to recall regarding when his career sort of ended.

If this is the case, that’s ALL QT had to say. All this, “I didn’t make this up” nonsense sounds crazy. Bruce Lee died when he was 10 years old. He don’t know how he talked outside the moviess

Here’s what QT had to say about the fight:

“Could Cliff beat up Bruce Lee? Brad [Pitt] would not be able to beat up Bruce Lee, but Cliff maybe could,” said Tarantino. “If you ask me the question, ‘Who would win in a fight: Bruce Lee or Dracula?’ It’s the same question. It’s a fictional character. If I say Cliff can beat Bruce Lee up, he’s a fictional character so he could beat Bruce Lee up. The reality of the situation is this: Cliff is a Green Beret. He has killed many men in WWII in hand-to-hand combat. What Bruce Lee is talking about in the whole thing is that he admires warriors. He admires combat, and boxing is a closer approximation of combat as a sport. Cliff is not part of the sport that is like combat, he is a warrior. He is a combat person.”

Tarantino concluded, “If Cliff were fighting Bruce Lee in a martial arts tournament in Madison Square Garden, Bruce would kill him. But if Cliff and Bruce were fighting in the jungles of the Philippines in a hand-to-hand combat fight, Cliff would kill him.”

 

[Magic33]

So Tarantino turns Bruce into a caricature and makes him look like a jackass in the film, doesn’t consult his family at all about the portrayal, and completely misquotes his widow. Yikes

It's the epitome of arrogance.

Yet Tarantino is talking about someone else being arrogant. That's crazy. He's judging someone he never met and justifying his movie portrayal as if Bruce Lee's flaws makes it allowable.

 

[danger style]

Yet Tarantino is talking about someone else being arrogant. That's crazy. He's judging someone he never met and justifying his movie portrayal as if Bruce Lee's flaws makes it allowable.

Ay man he heard him talk in a couple interviews and read a biography about him!

 

[babyface34]

I honestly don’t care about the Bruce Lee stuff. The liberties he took with the Sharon Tate murder was more offensive.

In the context of the film, what murder?

 

[DsLee]

Kareem wrote a piece on Hollywood Reporter regarding Bruce Lee's portrayal:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Bruce Lee Was My Friend, and Tarantino's Movie Disrespects Him

Spoiler

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Bruce Lee Was My Friend, and Tarantino's Movie Disrespects Him
8:08 AM PDT 8/16/2019 by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

The NBA great and Hollywood Reporter columnist, a friend of the late martial arts star, believes the filmmaker was sloppy, somewhat racist and shirked his responsibility to basic truth in 'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.'
Remember that time Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. kidney-punched a waiter for serving soggy croutons in his tomato soup? How about the time the Dalai Lama got wasted and spray-painted “Karma Is a Beach” on the Tibetan ambassador’s limo? Probably not, since they never happened. But they could happen if a filmmaker decides to write those scenes into his or her movie. And, even though we know the movie is fiction, those scenes will live on in our shared cultural conscience as impressions of those real people, thereby corrupting our memory of them built on their real-life actions.

That’s why filmmakers have a responsibility when playing with people’s perceptions of admired historic people to maintain a basic truth about the content of their character. Quentin Tarantino’s portrayal of Bruce Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood does not live up to this standard. Of course, Tarantino has the artistic right to portray Bruce any way he wants. But to do so in such a sloppy and somewhat racist way is a failure both as an artist and as a human being.

This controversy has left me torn. Tarantino is one of my favorite filmmakers because he is so bold, uncompromising and unpredictable. There’s a giddy energy in his movies of someone who loves movies and wants you to love them, too. I attend each Tarantino film as if it were an event, knowing that his distillation of the ’60s and ’70s action movies will be much more entertaining than a simple homage. That’s what makes the Bruce Lee scenes so disappointing, not so much on a factual basis, but as a lapse of cultural awareness.

Bruce Lee was my friend and teacher. That doesn’t give him a free pass for how he’s portrayed in movies. But it does give me some insight into the man. I first met Bruce when I was a student at UCLA looking to continue my martial arts studies, which I started in New York City. We quickly developed a friendship as well as a student-teacher relationship. He taught me the discipline and spirituality of martial arts, which was greatly responsible for me being able to play competitively in the NBA for 20 years with very few injuries.

SONY PICTURES ENTERTAINMENT
Mike Moh as Bruce Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
During our years of friendship, he spoke passionately about how frustrated he was with the stereotypical representation of Asians in film and TV. The only roles were for inscrutable villains or bowing servants. In Have Gun - Will Travel, Paladin’s faithful Chinese servant goes by the insulting name of “Hey Boy” (Kam Tong). He was replaced in season four by a female character referred to as “Hey Girl” (Lisa Lu). Asian men were portrayed as sexless accessories to a scene, while the women were subservient. This was how African-American men and women were generally portrayed until the advent of Sidney Poitier and blaxploitation films. Bruce was dedicated to changing the dismissive image of Asians through his acting, writing and promotion of Jeet Kune Do, his interpretation of martial arts.

That’s why it disturbs me that Tarantino chose to portray Bruce in such a one-dimensional way. The John Wayne machismo attitude of Cliff (Brad Pitt), an aging stuntman who defeats the arrogant, uppity Chinese guy harks back to the very stereotypes Bruce was trying to dismantle. Of course the blond, white beefcake American can beat your fancy Asian chopsocky dude because that foreign crap doesn’t fly here.

I might even go along with the skewered version of Bruce if that wasn’t the only significant scene with him, if we’d also seen a glimpse of his other traits, of his struggle to be taken seriously in Hollywood. Alas, he was just another Hey Boy prop to the scene. The scene is complicated by being presented as a flashback, but in a way that could suggest the stuntman’s memory is cartoonishly biased in his favor. Equally disturbing is the unresolved shadow that Cliff may have killed his wife with a spear gun because she nagged him. Classic Cliff. Is Cliff more heroic because he also doesn’t put up with outspoken women?

I was in public with Bruce several times when some random jerk would loudly challenge Bruce to a fight. He always politely declined and moved on. First rule of Bruce’s fight club was don’t fight — unless there is no other option. He felt no need to prove himself. He knew who he was and that the real fight wasn’t on the mat, it was on the screen in creating opportunities for Asians to be seen as more than grinning stereotypes. Unfortunately, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood prefers the good old ways.

 

[IATT]

It’s a fictional movie, not an biographical film

Should be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy bigger noise about what was done to Freddie Mercury in bohemian rhapsody

 

[IATT]

On first viewing, which isn’t great way to appreciate Tarantino movies I’d go:

Pulp fiction
Reservoir dogs
Inglorious basterds
Hateful 8
Django unchained
Kill bill vol 1
Kill bill vol 2
Jackie brown
This
Deathproof

 

[Beruseruku Desu]

Ben barra actually speaking some facts

 

[mastamind033]

It’s a fictional movie, not an biographical film

Should be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy bigger noise about what was done to Freddie Mercury in bohemian rhapsody

So it’s fine to do whatever you want with a real person in film as long as it’s done in the name of fiction?

 

[IATT]

So it’s fine to do whatever you want with a real person in film as long as it’s done in the name of fiction?

Far from the first time this has been done.. pretty sure this isn’t the first time it has been done with Bruce lee or a Bruce lee type rip off

We know off the bat the primary characters didn’t exist (at best there is speculation it’s based on Burt Reynolds) and clearly the situation didn’t play out that way at the end

I mean I’m not going get worked up by this from bondocks either:

 

[calibeebee]

In for that.

Didnt know the extended Hateful 8 was on netflix either. About to watch that now.

I saw like up until the part where they get to Minneys Haberdashery and there was literally no difference from the theatrical release. I’m wondering what was added

 

[Magic33]

Ben barra actually speaking some facts

Just what I was wondering, what does Ben Baller think about the situation

 

[DsLee]

IATT what about MLK in the Boondocks, based upon that clip, made people think less of him? I haven’t seen that episode so I don’t know if there’s more to it. Also back to the “it’s fictional” thing I’m actually with you for the most part. The thing that rubs me the wrong way is more so the comments made by Tarantino in the recent interview.

Fact of the matter is, QT’s words hold weight to some and may lead those sheep enough to believe Bruce was that cocky/arrogant and deserved the smoke. I mean, somebody in here was saying Bruce deserve the hands if he was really like that. The fact that this portrayal could’ve lead people to thinking Bruce could actually be like that is troubling.

End of the day, it’s not just an Asian character being brought down so that a white character can be elevated. It’s THE Asian character (GOAT Asian actor/personality in Hollywood) that was portrayed in a humorous/pompous light and humiliated for the sake of a fictional white character in Booth looking awesome/mighty. Again, I’m not tripping because it’s QT and just fictional storytelling, which is what he’s great at and we love from him, but to double down after the fact instead of putting out the fire and using incorrect lenses to justify the fictional portrayal of Bruce was wrong and arrogant.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

And to me, boondocks has a legit critique of society and mcgruder was/is a great voice

Tarantino makes good and very cool stylized movies, but by no means do I take any of them as anywhere near reality or having a message on society let alone Bruce lee

Dude is a film buff and combines cool aspects from his wealth of film knowledge, sure he’ll through aspects of history into his films but they are still clearly works of fiction with the purpose being to entertain

Nothing about what I saw last night made me think that was actually the Bruce lee that I didn’t know.. I just took it as a caricature of aspects that were presented on film, just like when they throw the Bruce lee type character in video games or hell even the characters I saw Bruce lee play in film.. I’m not going assume I know anything more or less from dude just because of last night

If people are stupid, we shouldnt dumb down society for them.. but then again people being stupid is what got Donald trump and he continues to have “his base”

 

[P A Z]

More QT foot fetish yall may have missed (since Jackie Brown gets 0 love)

 

[P A Z]

I was trying not to let the Bruce Lee scene bother me, but the more I thought about it the more it does. During that time period, Asians in film were basically a joke (Breakfast at Tiffany's). Bruce Lee came along and changed that. He became an icon and he's also a philosopher. Dana White considers him the Godfather of MMA. Fast forward to today we're seeing more and more Asians with prominent roles, and not just sidekicks or token characters. Tarantino managed to take the number 1 icon in Asian American film and turn him into a joke. That scene could have easily been written out or omitted as he did with other actors' scenes.

 

[Master Zik]

I saw like up until the part where they get to Minneys Haberdashery and there was literally no difference from the theatrical release. I’m wondering what was added

Some slightly different dialogue from what I can tell. Its definitely 4+ hours.

 

[IATT]

Just was more long winded, can’t remember specifics or anything that stood out really

 

[P A Z]

Some slightly different dialogue from what I can tell. Its definitely 4+ hours.

I saw the 70mm roadshow and the only thing I remember was the girl plucking the chicken. I think that scene was cut from the reg theatrical release

 

[IATT]

was weird as hell seeing the movie without the OG opening tarantino has for all his other movies (i wanna say for all)

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I was trying not to let the Bruce Lee scene bother me, but the more I thought about it the more it does. During that time period, Asians in film were basically a joke (Breakfast at Tiffany's). Bruce Lee came along and changed that. He became an icon and he's also a philosopher. Dana White considers him the Godfather of MMA. Fast forward to today we're seeing more and more Asians with prominent roles, and not just sidekicks or token characters. Tarantino managed to take the number 1 icon in Asian American film and turn him into a joke. That scene could have easily been written out or omitted as he did with other actors' scenes.

1. it's not a documentary.
2. Cliff Boothe is not a real human as is essentially indestructible.
3. Having a scene where he goes toe to toe with Bruce (the enduring yard stick for film badassery) doesn't make bruce a joke.


I think people are misdirecting their anger...you should be mad at the AUDIENCE.

The film is NOT saying that Bruce is a joke. Quite the contrary, the film is very clearly a childs recollections of 1970's Los Angeles and the movie industry. It's very earnest in
portrayal of every character, there is not a hint of cycnism in the depiction of anyone except for hippies and movie critics( ). Young Bruce is portrayed as arrogant cocksure hyper charismatic dude, and his arrogance is about to be completely validated. He WILL become the biggest movie star in the world no matter happens with Cliffe (a dude who is about to fade into bolivia).. The movie is NOT MAKING FUN OF BRUCE.


Yet some in the audience laugh, why?


The audience laughs because.

1. Internalized racism as it relates to Asian males. seeing a super charismatic, super arrogant, super masculine, handsome asian dude talk that talk contradicts the sexless beta male charactuire that exists in the mind of white audiences. The contradiction produces laughter. The movie presents Bruce as he very likely was and an audience that doesn't know about Bruce laughs because they don't understand the scale of superstardom that Bruce would reach. They just see him as haha overconfident asian dude.

2. Bruce Lee became so popular that he essentially came to define an entire genre in the minds of mainstream audiences, and so naturally any parody of martial arts or kung fu is a parody of Bruce Lee, and as a result many things that we associate with Bruce lee; the metaphysical speech, the sounds he made while fighting, essentially became jokes.

I bet many people who have never seen a bruce lee movie, or even any martial arts movie, if you started jumping around, and making Bruce Lee noises while I kicked they will instantly be able to recognize it as "generic kung fu guy" and absorb this as an attempt at comedy.

many people in the audience don't understand that Bruce Lee's affectations weren't jokes they were literally the coolest thing on the planet earth post Enter the Dragon.

I don't think it was QT's intention to make Bruce out to be a joke, it's just that in the minds of many people in the audience, Bruce Lee cultural signifiers have transitioned from cool *** **** to parody.