Real mature discussion. Why do you believe in what you believe?

[yeold360s]

it's a range based on a literal interpretation of the bible. someone calculated that the world must have been created around 6,000-10,000 years ago based on when genesis was written. i'm also aware that there is figurative language in the bible. it doesn't really matter whether i believe in it or not.
is this some kind of terrible generalization about me based on my lack of belief in a god? i don't get it. in any case, there are reasons to doubt the existence of the biblical jesus that don't involve whether the bible can be taken literally or not.
i never said that it meant anything. all i said was that it's a common belief held by many christians, especially in the united states.

The figurative language in the Bible would lend credence to the obvious fact that the world isn't 6,000-10,000 years old.

That wasn't a generalization, more of an assumption of what your next response might be in reference to the figurative/literal aspect. Last time the topic was broached, that was a "telling point" from somebody. Ignore that.

I don't understand your purpose by mentioning that common belief.  I'm also curious to know exactly how common that belief is.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

The figurative language in the Bible would lend credence to the obvious fact that the world isn't 6,000-10,000 years old.

yeah, i'm aware of this interpretation as well. not every christian agrees.

I don't understand your purpose by mentioning that common belief.  I'm also curious to know exactly how common that belief is.

you said that i wasn't taught creationism because of christianity, i was taught creationism because my teachers were dullards. while i don't disagree about them being dullards, the fact remains that i was taught creationism derived from christian beliefs. whether their interpretation of the bible is true or not (again, this doesn't matter to me), it's still a common belief in christianity. i did a google search and found a gallup poll that shows that 46% of americans believe in creationism.

 

[yeold360s]

The figurative language in the Bible would lend credence to the obvious fact that the world isn't 6,000-10,000 years old.

yeah, i'm aware of this interpretation as well. not every christian agrees.

I don't understand your purpose by mentioning that common belief.  I'm also curious to know exactly how common that belief is.

you said that i wasn't taught creationism because of christianity, i was taught creationism because my teachers were dullards. while i don't disagree about them being dullards, the fact remains that i was taught creationism derived from christian beliefs. whether their interpretation of the bible is true or not (again, this doesn't matter to me), it's still a common belief in christianity. i did a google search and found a gallup poll that shows that 46% of americans believe in creationism.

Well it seems like we're at a crossroads 

 Rather, Christians are.  They can choose to interpret the Bible in a way that clashes with science and anthropology, or they can use common sense, critical thinking, and literary analysis to interpret it another way. Its up to the individual.

I said "You weren't taught evolution is false and the world was created 6,000 years ago because you were raised Christian, you were taught that because your teachers were dullards 

 " I haven't mentioned "creationism" until this sentence.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Well it seems like we're at a crossroads   Rather, Christians are.  They can choose to interpret the Bible in a way that clashes with science and anthropology, or they can use common sense, critical thinking, and literary analysis to interpret it another way. Its up to the individual.

yeah, pretty much. there are plenty of people that feel that accepting the bible and science is also as absurd as a literal interpretation of the bible.

I said "You weren't taught evolution is false and the world was created 6,000 years ago because you were raised Christian, you were taught that because your teachers were dullards 

 " I haven't mentioned "creationism" until this sentence.

the idea of a young earth and the denial of evolution is pretty indicative of creationist views, so i inserted creationism in there. additionally, my original post would indicate that i was referring to creationism. the point is, i was taught these absurd beliefs because of a way of interpreting the bible (that is apparently widely held).

 

[yeold360s]

Well it seems like we're at a crossroads 

 Rather, Christians are.  They can choose to interpret the Bible in a way that clashes with science and anthropology, or they can use common sense, critical thinking, and literary analysis to interpret it another way. Its up to the individual.

yeah, pretty much. there are plenty of people that feel that accepting the bible and science is also as absurd as a literal interpretation of the bible.

I said "You weren't taught evolution is false and the world was created 6,000 years ago because you were raised Christian, you were taught that because your teachers were dullards 

 " I haven't mentioned "creationism" until this sentence.

the idea of a young earth and the denial of evolution is pretty indicative of creationist views, so i inserted creationism in there. additionally, my original post would indicate that i was referring to creationism. the point is, i was taught these absurd beliefs because of a way of interpreting the bible (that is apparently widely held).

I'm genuinely interested: Who are these people? And what about it makes it "absurd"?

I don't know much about the term "creationism" but after a google-search it shows that there are a multitude of types of creationism. Now that I know more about it, that denigrates the significance of that Gallup poll, if the question was just "Do you believe in Creationism".  Because creationists (Is that the right term) disagree with each other on many terms.

 

[jetsetr]

I use to be big into church but stopped going after my brothers died...did see the reason anymore. My mother and sister continues to go and when I am home with them on Sundays I go with them...even though I don't want to go I go with them...

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

I'm genuinely interested: Who are these people? And what about it makes it "absurd"?

i think it was christopher hitchens who pointed out that if you accept the scientific estimate of the age of the earth, biological evolution, and believe in god, god watched the earth for a few billion years until humans came along and then watched them suffer through disease and famine for a few thousand years before finally deciding to show up. the idea that humans evolved also clashes with the idea that god created man.

I don't know much about the term "creationism" but after a google-search it shows that there are a multitude of types of creationism. Now that I know more about it, that denigrates the significance of that Gallup poll, if the question was just "Do you believe in Creationism".  Because creationists (Is that the right term) disagree with each other on many terms.

the question had to do with people who do not "believe" in evolution. the poll apparently includes those that accept evolution, those that accept theistic evolution, and those that reject evolution altogether. i can't think of any group of people that actively fight evolution aside from those with religious beliefs. all of the major opponents of evolution (that i know of) that actively fight the science by pouring money into the teaching of creationism have religious beliefs. also, creationists do agree that the earth is young and that "macro" evolution does not exist, both of which are relevant to what i've mentioned.

 

[jking0821]

I never went to church as a kid. But I went to a catholic high school where we had religion classes.

After sitting through mass after mass and reading the bible in class and learning what I am "supposed to believe" I decided I am atheist lol. And with all the corruption in the church and child raping its clear no one cares about religion. The people that were supposed to uphold everything and be the pillars for people to look up to are committing one of the worst crimes man can commit.

 

[sk33termcg33]

I'm going to start off by saying I'm not Christian and neither is my family. While my parents are pretty religious, I don't necessarily have the same devotion to religion that they do. I just can't understand how those that believe in religion basically deny the existence of Science. (And no, I am NOT a scientologist).

I guess to answer the question of this thread, you believe things because of what has happened in your life. I know people that say they do not believe in God anymore because of what they have seen at war and things they have seen that have been done to innocent people. I also know people that have survived cancer and swear that they got through it because of devotion and prayers to a higher being (not trying to specify or single out one religion).

People tend to believe the things that have impacted them most and changed them, whether it be for better or worse.

That's just my opinion, of course...

 

[dbyrd501]

another reason for why i am a believer is testimony. not just from the folks at church who stand up and say what God has done for them, but more so from different family members who i know have my best interest in mind and not embellishing. for instance my aunt a few weeks ago was hospitalized because she was bleeding excessively and the doctors had no idea why. she was airlifted to ICU and stayed there for 2 weeks. gave her some medicine, ran all kinds of tests- eventually let her go only for her to return to the hospital the next day. she was given additional tests and medication, which they said would take 10-12 days to see any effects, and after that if she was not better then she would have to get surgery. my family and i continued to pray that she would get better, she prayed that God would handle it. they tried to force her to get surgery - she declined. why get surgery and yall dont even know exactly what the problem is anyway. she left it in God's hands. the 12 days had passed and the medication still wasn't working, yet she declined surgery still. her belief that God would handle it had never wavered and eventually she awoke with no pain, no bleeding. Doctors couldn't believe it, had no explanation for it. things like this make me believe in higher power and to never lose faith. they say God will never give u more than u can bear. u ever hear stories about people going thru things and say man, i couldnt go thru what they did? i think there is a reason u didnt go thru it and they did and pulled thru whatever the situation is.

i dont think this thread is gon change nobody views, but hopefully just discuss why we feel the way we feel and think the way we think. i'm late for work tho

 

[tr1ll]

SillyMD must've got banned?

Or he's somewhere building a proverbial pipe bomb of a post.

 

[maliz]

People confuse being "religious" with being "spiritual" though.

Quoting a book doesn't really mean anything unless a person feels their heart is truly touched by something.
Sometimes the really OD "religious" people are that way because they feel they have to hide behind all the dogma and ritual to hide their flaws.

THIS

OD religious truly turn me off and I'm not one to down one's religious beliefs or lack thereof. Those two type of people disgust me. The converters and the "bible/Quran is all fairy tale" people.

 

[peteweezy]

I believe in a higher power I refer to God, but no, I don't follow any religious idea... more spiritual than religious I guess.

This is me right here

 

[Master Zik]

You weren't taught evolution is false and the world was created 6,000 years ago because you were raised Christian, you were taught that because your teachers were dullards 

a literal interpretation of the bible leads to the belief that the world is 6,000-10,000 years old. a lot of people share this belief and a lot of people do not accept the theory of evolution.

6000-10000? That's not very literal if its a range of years.  I'm not really going to get into this because you don't believe it in the first place, but the Bible is RIFE with figurative language.  

This is where you take what I just said, and take it to the extreme and say things like "Oh, since there is figurative language in the Bible, who's to say Jesus really existed? Or anything else in the Bible that supposedly "happened"?"

A lot of people sharing this belief and not accepting evolution means nothing.

What it means to those who believe that is that you can't tell them they're wrong. There are ppl who would say you are wrong for saying anything in the bible is figurative or a metaphor. There are religious fundamentalists who will tell you that Moses literally parted a sea, and so on and so forth. They'll specifically tell you how old the Earth, that being to them a range of 6k to 10k years, it wouldn't matter if it's "literal" that's what they believe and would be providing about how old the Earth is created, you accepting that span of time wouldn't make a difference to them. They'll ignore evidence that support facts contrary to their beliefs in order to maintain their faith.

You saying them not accepting evolution means nothing would be the same thing they'd say about you not accepting what they believe in and they'd add in you burning in hell for all eternity.

 

[supermanblue79]

Why do you believe in what you believe?"

I'm a Christian. The scriptures that I have a applied to my life, and the results of my relationship with GOD are the reason that I believe in what I believe. It has been proven to me personally over and over again.

And what about evolution? There is no argument. Every living creature was created with what it needs to survive, including the inherent ability to adapt over time to this planet's ever changing environment. I don't understand why so many religous people are afraid of this fact.

 

[yeold360s]

What it means to those who believe that is that you can't tell them they're wrong. There are ppl who would say you are wrong for saying anything in the bible is figurative or a metaphor. There are religious fundamentalists who will tell you that Moses literally parted a sea, and so on and so forth. They'll specifically tell you how old the Earth, that being to them a range of 6k to 10k years, it wouldn't matter if it's "literal" that's what they believe and would be providing about how old the Earth is created, you accepting that span of time wouldn't make a difference to them. They'll ignore evidence that support facts contrary to their beliefs in order to maintain their faith.

You saying them not accepting evolution means nothing would be the same thing they'd say about you not accepting what they believe in and they'd add in you burning in hell for all eternity.

The people you mention in the bolded aren't worth talking to.  How fervently people defend their refuted beliefs they have is NO reflection on what they (mis)used to derive said beliefs, its a reflection on them as a person.

I'm genuinely interested: Who are these people? And what about it makes it "absurd"?

i think it was christopher hitchens who pointed out that if you accept the scientific estimate of the age of the earth, biological evolution, and believe in god, god watched the earth for a few billion years until humans came along and then watched them suffer through disease and famine for a few thousand years before finally deciding to show up. the idea that humans evolved also clashes with the idea that god created man.

I don't know much about the term "creationism" but after a google-search it shows that there are a multitude of types of creationism. Now that I know more about it, that denigrates the significance of that Gallup poll, if the question was just "Do you believe in Creationism".  Because creationists (Is that the right term) disagree with each other on many terms.

the question had to do with people who do not "believe" in evolution. the poll apparently includes those that accept evolution, those that accept theistic evolution, and those that reject evolution altogether. i can't think of any group of people that actively fight evolution aside from those with religious beliefs. all of the major opponents of evolution (that i know of) that actively fight the science by pouring money into the teaching of creationism have religious beliefs. also, creationists do agree that the earth is young and that "macro" evolution does not exist, both of which are relevant to what i've mentioned.

So?  Many people would say that God is doing the same thing now, and has been for centuries.

What evidence do you have that they clash?

Can you post that poll?  Also, reference this chart which disagrees with what you said 
[h2] [/h2]

[h2]Types of creationism[/h2]
Several attempts have been made to categorize the different types of creationism, and create a "taxonomy" of creationists.[sup][128][/sup][sup][129][/sup][sup][13[/sup]  Creationism covers a spectrum of beliefs which have been categorized into the broad types listed below. As a matter of popular belief and characterizations by the media, most people labeled "creationists" are those who object to specific parts of science for religious reasons; however many (if not most) people who believe in a divine act of creation do not categorically reject those parts of science.[sup][citation needed][/sup]
[table]Comparison of major creationist views[tr][th=""] [/th][th=""]Acceptance[/th][th=""]Humanity[/th][th=""]Biological species[/th][th=""]Earth[/th][th=""]Age of Universe[/th][/tr][tr][th=""]Young Earth creationism[/th][td]40% (US)[sup][92][/sup][/td][td]Directly created by God.[/td][td]Directly created by God. Macroevolution  does not occur.[/td][td]Less than 10,000 years old. Reshaped by global flood.[/td][td]Less than 10,000 years old (some hold this view only for our solar system).[/td][/tr][tr][th=""]Gap creationism[/th][td]Scientifically accepted age. Reshaped by global flood.[/td][td]Scientifically accepted age.[/td][/tr][tr][th=""]Progressive creationism[/th][td]38% (US)[sup][92][/sup][/td][td]Directly created by God (based onprimate  anatomy).[/td][td]Direct creation + evolution. No single common ancestor.[/td][td]Scientifically accepted age. No global flood.[/td][td]Scientifically accepted age.[/td][/tr][tr][th=""]Intelligent design[/th][td]Proponents hold various beliefs. for example, Behe  accepts evolution from primates[/td][td]Divine intervention at some point in the past, as evidenced by what intelligent-design creationists call "irreducible complexity"[/td][td]Some adherents accept common descent, others not. Some claim the existence of Earth is the result of divine intervention[/td][td]Scientifically accepted age[/td][/tr][tr][th=""]Theistic evolution(evolutionary creationism)[/th][td]Evolution from primates.[/td][td]Evolution from single common ancestor.[/td][td]Scientifically accepted age. No global flood.[/td][td]Scientifically accepted age.
 [/td][/tr][/table]

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

So?  Many people would say that God is doing the same thing now, and has been for centuries.

yeah, i'm just telling you what some people believe regarding christians that accept the bible and science. argue with them if that bothers you.

What evidence do you have that they clash?

if god created humans as they appear today, humans did not evolve from other apes.

Can you post that poll?  Also, reference this chart which disagrees with what you said 

you can search around on google if you're curious. also, the chart you provided lists a percentage for acceptance of those ideas.

as for the chart you provided, my original post mentioned being taught about a young earth and that evolution is false. i think that indicates what type of creationism i'm referring to. what you posted seems to provide a percentage for the people that accept those ideas as well.

 

[glasses]

in conclusion, it seems that either ;

a. the majority of NT are non-believers

or

b. a lot of the believers stay mum on voicing their religious beliefs to save being dragged into a debate

either way, i'm really surprised how ubiquitous the notion of not believing in God and Jesus is on NT, considering the population of Christians in the world. I definitely thought it would be the other way around.

Then again, when almost every thread in general consists of getting yambs, getting rich, idolizing celebs, and personal problems, I really shouldn't be THAT surprised. the proof is in the pudding.

 

[thenewjs23]

As child parents try to give their kids the tools they may think they need. My parents took me to church. I took into the belief that their is a god. As I got older I took more interest and did my own research. Religion is all about your personal belief. Not the pastors or your parents but what you believe in.

 

[gtek]

Study, observation, and experience.....

 

[headorchest]

I am not that religious like my parents. I have faith and feel like I have a lot of favor in this world. I still don't understand why. Things have been looking promising for me year after year and I am thankful. I still believe in science though. I am a realest and there are many things that I question in the Bible. 

I don't go to church and I pray ever so often. I think religion helps people feel some kind of connection with a higher being just to help them battle life issues and struggles.

 

[Master Zik]

What it means to those who believe that is that you can't tell them they're wrong. There are ppl who would say you are wrong for saying anything in the bible is figurative or a metaphor. There are religious fundamentalists who will tell you that Moses literally parted a sea, and so on and so forth. They'll specifically tell you how old the Earth, that being to them a range of 6k to 10k years, it wouldn't matter if it's "literal" that's what they believe and would be providing about how old the Earth is created, you accepting that span of time wouldn't make a difference to them. They'll ignore evidence that support facts contrary to their beliefs in order to maintain their faith.


You saying them not accepting evolution means nothing would be the same thing they'd say about you not accepting what they believe in and they'd add in you burning in hell for all eternity.

The people you mention in the bolded aren't worth talking to.  How fervently people defend their refuted beliefs they have is NO reflection on what they (mis)used to derive said beliefs, its a reflection on them as a person.

As dismissive as their beliefs may be, I'm not ready to dismiss the ppl no matter how disgusting and ugly they may act. The sooner all ppl get on the page with certain things the better off we'll all be.

To be clear though, I was never arguing whether or not those ppl were worthy of talking to. You were speaking as if they did not exist or because you have not encountered them they're not apart of the problem or should be considered.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

YeOld360s, has to be FuturePutty

 

[Master Zik]

That would be funny since it would look like he's trying to throw ppl off by making that pic his avy but I kinda doubt it.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

YeOld360s, has to be FuturePutty

i'm p sure YeOld360s is a proponent of christianity though.