Stay/Get Back In Shape.... Vol 2.0

[keepzdasneakz]

Blaxoid:

J/K

About the importance of calories overshadowing the content of your food though...

I disagree on that point. If you think about the composition of a hamburger, especially one from McDonalds, the amount of hydrogenated oils in there will keepyou from losing weight as fast as you possibly could
while eating clean. I understand the rules of thermodynamics and although we can't modify or make exceptions to those rules (that I know of), thehydrogenated oils of a hamburger/fries are much more difficult to break down or metabolize than a meal of equal caloric value that is clean; such as chickenbreasts, a salad, nuts, etc.

Basically my argument is:

watching calories is important, yes, but the quality of your food is still >>> quantity. It's a matter of feeling better as well.

 

[theabove]

With college habits... I'm abstaining from beer and going straight liquor. Double Jack and a 'touch' of coke.

I envy you cats who can train even with high reps low weight and still maintain form.

Its like my body needs to be shocked everytime or at least be doing some sort of cardio 4-5 times a week with weights.

 

[joe camel smooth]

Originally Posted by SNEAKERKING757

JOE, where can I see Kane's numbers?

And is there really any point in doing cardio if you're not going to eat clean? Besides for a healthy heart.

he has a bodyspace so he might have them n there

but im just speculating from the fact that 185 looked hard for him on the incline. and that was with a brief rest after each rep

 

[djprestige21]

Originally Posted by DaBuddhaWitJays

Anyone care to explain the significance/benefits in working out the lower body, other than having a more proportionate body?

If there are any.

( I do work out my legs btw, just a question out of curiosity)

Higher GH production overall and increased test production. Legs hit global stabilizer muscles harder than anything else and obviously strongercore equals stronger everything else.

 

[chewtoy112]

Originally Posted by blaxoid

ChewToy, good advice in regards to lifting. However, be careful with your nutritional guidelines;
Most of what you listed is not necessary for weight loss, it's more likely that your guidelines inadvertently helped you control your calories, which is ultimately what it comes down to.

Yeah, I was never really giving advice for weight loss specifically. They asked what I do, and just stated the guidelines I use personally. AndI did specifically say it's okay to indulge if you're putting in the work at the gym.

 

[warmachine]

blaxoid I know what you're saying but 90% of the people following advice are noobies, it's hard enough to resist but when you're out buying burgersand fries it's easy to OD. I'm just saying for someone who knows the ins and outs it's pretty easy to hover at the edge but for someone who's anoob it might be easier to play it safe and reenforce a clean diet. No?

 

[durden7]

Originally Posted by blaxoid

ChewToy, good advice in regards to lifting. However, be careful with your nutritional guidelines;
Most of what you listed is not necessary for weight loss, it's more likely that your guidelines inadvertently helped you control your calories, which is ultimately what it comes down to.

Specifically I mean the following:
Lower carb, higher protein and fat.
Don't eat close to bed time.
Limit liquid calories.
When eating carbs, make sure they're the proper type for the time of day
Eat frequent, small snacks/meals, with the bulk of calories (probably over 50-60%) coming at dinner time.

1.1 Essential Simplistic Rules

- Workout with weights about 3 times a week.Keeps metabolism high which aids in weight loss; also maintains and helps your muscular development(duh)
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day. This point is debateable, could trend more towards 1g/kg of lbm a day
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day. This is for overall good health, and EFAs are needed in muscle development.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods. Again for overall health; Note Chewtoy had multi-vitamins, which are used for the same effect
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight loss is maintained. Body Composition comes down to calories and calories alone.

Bodybuilding.com Source

I don't mean to attack you or anything, and I respect your hard work coz I know it's hard as hell. Just wanted to point out what I know, because all the supposed rules about weight loss make it seem like such a daunting task when in reality the principles are simple.

People fret about meal timing, macro's and clean/dirty way too much. You don't have to follow the 'clean' but unhealthy body builder diets. Everyone has to abide by the same thermo-dynamics laws as you and me, ie: Weightloss = Calories IN < Calories OUT

Get your EFA's, Protein and right calories and you'll get there.

FYI, the poster of these guidelines is 35.
He looks like this:



And eats stuff like this UNTIL HE MEETS HIS CALORIC GOALS. No chicken breast diet for him


Thats essentially correct, but how many people who exercise 1. know their caloric goals and 2. count the calories in the food they eat.


Thats a much more difficult method than eating healthy foods.

PLUS, that way doesnt provide enough vitamins and minerals that healither foods provide.

 

[jdub55]

Chewtoy

Whats your goal weight and what are your workouts like also how long are your workouts?..... i didnt go all the way back to see if you had posted any my bad ifu did

Ive been at it about a year and half pretty much 7 days a week and put on a good 25 30 pounds in that time trying to put more on as we speak

also how long do you usually work out for?

 

[ltms206]

NTs i need a workout plan!!!! im 18 and only 135 pounds and i just got a membership for ballys(sucks for now but ill deal with it). i actually have a friendthats a trainer but can never take time to help me out. NT HELP

 

[chewtoy112]

Originally Posted by jdub55

Chewtoy

Whats your goal weight and what are your workouts like also how long are your workouts?..... i didnt go all the way back to see if you had posted any my bad if u did

Ive been at it about a year and half pretty much 7 days a week and put on a good 25 30 pounds in that time trying to put more on as we speak

also how long do you usually work out for?

I don't have a goal weight, really, just a goal look. I'd like to stay pretty much the same size, but lose my fat and maybe have my chesta bit bigger, which would likely put me around the same weight I'm at now. My workouts last 45 to 60 minutes at the most.

 

[i3]

word 4 years in the making thats awesome.. i hope to look at myself in 4 years and be proud.. its a slow process huh

 

[theabove]

Originally Posted by I3

word 4 years in the making thats awesome.. i hope to look at myself in 4 years and be proud.. its a slow process huh

Co-sign

Do you guys ever feel that its easier to take the weight off again after taking a break or better yet slacking lol.

I used to be so active but from September to about now, I've narrowed my training to maybe 3 times a week and but I've decreased my cardio and it waskeeping my lean which was my goal.

I've gained back some body fat but maintained the same strength and overall weight, not to mention my diet hasn't been the greatest.

Would you guys suggest adapting to high-rep low weight program to adjust for that decrease in cardio and then lift heavy at least once a week or every twoweeks?

And obviously switch the diet back up again.

 

[blaxoid]

Originally Posted by durden7


Thats essentially correct, but how many people who exercise 1. know their caloric goals and 2. count the calories in the food they eat.


Thats a much more difficult method than eating healthy foods.

PLUS, that way doesnt provide enough vitamins and minerals that healither foods provide.

I agree with you in regards to Calorie Counting; Personally I don't count calories, but I look at what I eat.. if i get fatter, something has to go, if Ilose weight/muscle too fast, vice versa. I don't think that part is too difficult for noobs(except for those with addictions to junk etc)

Next, my post wasn't advocating eating just junk food. The guy I mentioned eats a great VARIETY of foods, which covers him in the health department. (ieBurgers, Salads, KFC, Fruit, whatever)

Please consider the other side of the spectrum as well; typical 'bro' body builder diets are made of:

Chicken Breast
Oatmeal
Peanut Butter
Cottage Cheese
Brown Rice
Broccoli
etc.

This is by no means a healthy diet either , hence why many include Multis to make up for it.

Below is a quote from Layne Norton (pro body builder) which you may find useful:

Once EFA's, adaquate protein, and vitamins are met, there will be no difference. Macros AND total calories, as long as they are in check, will dictate the quantity of "dirty" foods, and the amount will not even be enough to be unhealthy.

I saw posts about "clean" foods being healthier - which may or may not be the case, but see how in the initial criteria VITAMINS are already being met? There you go, it doesn't matter if the "clean" foods are more nutrient dense because we are already meeting those requirements through multi-vitamins or whatever. Now, you can make an argument that nutrients can be absorbed better through whole foods, and although I agree, if you are at least getting what you need, at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

I saw posts about 2000cals of clean sources vs. 2000cals of dirty sources, but again - it's total calories AND macro ratios. If someone has enough room in their ratios to have a slice, or even a whole pizza (I do), then it won't have a negative impact - even health wise. The ratio of macros and the total calories dictate how much of those foods you can eat.

The problem is that those foods may be harder to control eating on....and some people just can't eat 1 slice when they have room for it. There's a whole psychological part to eating that is EXTREMELY complex and is outside the scope of this thread.

Jim Cordova said it best, "I can feed someone all salads and chicken breast and make them fat and I can feed someone candy bars dipped in lard and make them lose weight" He's obviously saying it as an extreme, but only to prove a point. This is a numbers game - that's all dieting is. Hit adaquate protein, EFA's, and get your multi-vitamin(s) and let the carbs and fat fall where they may depending on what foods you like to eat, or what role insulin plays in your body. The ratio AND the total number of calories will dictate the quantity of "clean" and "dirty" foods. If body composition starts turning for the worse - it wasn't the type of food (if you were hitting your numbers), it was the ratio and total calories you were using.

I ate a ton of "dirty" and processed foods during my contest prep and was still able to make great progress all throughout the prep and win a pro card. If there was any truth to "clean" and "dirty" foods, I wouldn't have been able to come close to winning, that's for sure.

This is a numbers game as long as the prerequisites are met. Your body isn't going to break the same law of thermodynamics that everyone else's has to follow. So hit your numbers with whatever foods you want. As you start getting contest lean, below setpoint, single digits, etc...THEN you can start worrying about nutrient timing, and the other finer details that *may* make a difference.



Lastly, I agree that it's easier to start losing weight with the typical 'bro' diet. However there are always 2 sides to every coin. Many developan unknown eating disorder, evident when they ask on somewhere like bodybuilding.com if it's ok to have Thanksgiving Turkey, or they flip out because theymissed their Casein shake before bed

That's the kind of thing I want to discourage. Sorry for the long rant.

 

[wj4]

Team Fitness gotta go hard at the gym tomorrow.

I'm going right at 6AM when the gym reopens. Soup, yam, stuffing, turkey, etc.

I'm getting more songs for the iPod as we speak so I can do a double shift tomorrow morning. Just gotta find out where to park because it's .5 milefrom the mall, smh.

 

[i3]

haha go hard man.. its thanks giving.

when i have family events or occassions, i couldnt imagine not pigging out with them or enjoying their company etc..

 

[yankeephan87]

Originally Posted by blaxoid

Originally Posted by durden7


Thats essentially correct, but how many people who exercise 1. know their caloric goals and 2. count the calories in the food they eat.


Thats a much more difficult method than eating healthy foods.

PLUS, that way doesnt provide enough vitamins and minerals that healither foods provide.

I agree with you in regards to Calorie Counting; Personally I don't count calories, but I look at what I eat.. if i get fatter, something has to go, if I lose weight/muscle too fast, vice versa. I don't think that part is too difficult for noobs(except for those with addictions to junk etc)

Next, my post wasn't advocating eating just junk food. The guy I mentioned eats a great VARIETY of foods, which covers him in the health department. (ie Burgers, Salads, KFC, Fruit, whatever)

Please consider the other side of the spectrum as well; typical 'bro' body builder diets are made of:

Chicken Breast
Oatmeal
Peanut Butter
Cottage Cheese
Brown Rice
Broccoli
etc.

This is by no means a healthy diet either , hence why many include Multis to make up for it.

Your crazy if you think Oatmeal, Chicken breasts and Broccoli are not part of healthy diets.

 

[blaxoid]

Originally Posted by Yankeephan87

Originally Posted by blaxoid

Your crazy if you think Oatmeal, Chicken breasts and Broccoli are not part of healthy diets.

I didnt say that. I meant that a Diet consisting of ONLY the body builder staples is also not well balanced.

 

[yankeephan87]

Originally Posted by blaxoid

Originally Posted by Yankeephan87

Originally Posted by blaxoid

Your crazy if you think Oatmeal, Chicken breasts and Broccoli are not part of healthy diets.

I didnt say that. I meant that a Diet consisting of ONLY the body builder staples is also not well balanced.

yeah for sure, Ive read that guys guide to cutting before its pretty good. But for someone trying to loose around 20lbs, they should be stricterthan he says and work out a lot miore then he says. Ive lost 35 lbs since June and still got like 10-15 more, I noticed that it took me a while to get a gooddiet down pat and once I did, I didnt have to run as much. Its like the pounds burn off just by lifting heavy and eating right.

 

[yankeephan87]

For anyone who uses Jack3d its on sale at GNC's site for 18 and if you go through bing.com you get extra 25% back through cashback to make it 13.89

 

[blaxoid]

Originally Posted by Yankeephan87

Originally Posted by blaxoid

Yankeephan87 wrote:

---

blaxoid wrote:

---

Your crazy if you think Oatmeal, Chicken breasts and Broccoli are not part of healthy diets.

I didnt say that. I meant that a Diet consisting of ONLY the body builder staples is also not well balanced.
yeah for sure, Ive read that guys guide to cutting before its pretty good. But for someone trying to loose around 20lbs, they should be stricter than he says and work out a lot miore then he says. Ive lost 35 lbs since June and still got like 10-15 more, I noticed that it took me a while to get a good diet down pat and once I did, I didnt have to run as much. Its like the pounds burn off just by lifting heavy and eating right.




Yea same. Like I said, changing to the bodybuilder diet definitely helps as you're controlling your calories without knowing it. A Big Mac won't be asnutrient dense as a Chicken & Brown Rice, so I'll have to eat more Big Macs to get my nutrients.
However, if I've met my nutrient requirements and I've got 'room' for the Big Mac, best believe i'm having it

A lot of people thinkthey'd undo Months of work by doing stuff like that, which is just wrong.

 

[joe camel smooth]

gnc has terrible prices but right now they have a lot of stuff 25% off and an extra 30% off with the code "GIVETHANKS".

search for gnc.com with bing.com to get 25% cash back rebate.

just copped 2 5lb. tubs of ON natural whey, 2 2lb. tubs of ON natural casein, 1 1.93lb tub of ON hydro whey, 2 1.1lb tubs of AEN Intrabolic, and a gold card(for an extra 15% off)

total : 177.94, and i get a $44.49 rebate check.

not too shabby

 

[scoopem]

Starting to finally get bigger and gain some weight.. I weighed in at 201 with clothes on (no shoes, i'm 6'3") on tuesday... i started at about183-84 in June.... then i get sick as hell the past 2 days (still really sick) and can't eat or do anything. i'm pretty sure i'm gonna drop down tolike 195, i've probably only put away 1600 calories the past 2 days and i've been throwing up.



oh and i get my wisdom teeth pulled next week... i can't catch a break

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by wj4

Team Fitness gotta go hard at the gym tomorrow.

I'm going right at 6AM when the gym reopens. Soup, yam, stuffing, turkey, etc.

I'm getting more songs for the iPod as we speak so I can do a double shift tomorrow morning. Just gotta find out where to park because it's .5 mile from the mall, smh.

what is so bad about soup, yam, and turkey? unless you ate tons of it of course

leg day on thanksgiving day

 

[durden7]

Originally Posted by blaxoid

Originally Posted by durden7


Thats essentially correct, but how many people who exercise 1. know their caloric goals and 2. count the calories in the food they eat.


Thats a much more difficult method than eating healthy foods.

PLUS, that way doesnt provide enough vitamins and minerals that healither foods provide.

I agree with you in regards to Calorie Counting; Personally I don't count calories, but I look at what I eat.. if i get fatter, something has to go, if I lose weight/muscle too fast, vice versa. I don't think that part is too difficult for noobs(except for those with addictions to junk etc)

Next, my post wasn't advocating eating just junk food. The guy I mentioned eats a great VARIETY of foods, which covers him in the health department. (ie Burgers, Salads, KFC, Fruit, whatever)

Please consider the other side of the spectrum as well; typical 'bro' body builder diets are made of:

Chicken Breast
Oatmeal
Peanut Butter
Cottage Cheese
Brown Rice
Broccoli
etc.

This is by no means a healthy diet either , hence why many include Multis to make up for it.

Below is a quote from Layne Norton (pro body builder) which you may find useful:

Once EFA's, adaquate protein, and vitamins are met, there will be no difference. Macros AND total calories, as long as they are in check, will dictate the quantity of "dirty" foods, and the amount will not even be enough to be unhealthy.

I saw posts about "clean" foods being healthier - which may or may not be the case, but see how in the initial criteria VITAMINS are already being met? There you go, it doesn't matter if the "clean" foods are more nutrient dense because we are already meeting those requirements through multi-vitamins or whatever. Now, you can make an argument that nutrients can be absorbed better through whole foods, and although I agree, if you are at least getting what you need, at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

I saw posts about 2000cals of clean sources vs. 2000cals of dirty sources, but again - it's total calories AND macro ratios. If someone has enough room in their ratios to have a slice, or even a whole pizza (I do), then it won't have a negative impact - even health wise. The ratio of macros and the total calories dictate how much of those foods you can eat.

The problem is that those foods may be harder to control eating on....and some people just can't eat 1 slice when they have room for it. There's a whole psychological part to eating that is EXTREMELY complex and is outside the scope of this thread.

Jim Cordova said it best, "I can feed someone all salads and chicken breast and make them fat and I can feed someone candy bars dipped in lard and make them lose weight" He's obviously saying it as an extreme, but only to prove a point. This is a numbers game - that's all dieting is. Hit adaquate protein, EFA's, and get your multi-vitamin(s) and let the carbs and fat fall where they may depending on what foods you like to eat, or what role insulin plays in your body. The ratio AND the total number of calories will dictate the quantity of "clean" and "dirty" foods. If body composition starts turning for the worse - it wasn't the type of food (if you were hitting your numbers), it was the ratio and total calories you were using.

I ate a ton of "dirty" and processed foods during my contest prep and was still able to make great progress all throughout the prep and win a pro card. If there was any truth to "clean" and "dirty" foods, I wouldn't have been able to come close to winning, that's for sure.

This is a numbers game as long as the prerequisites are met. Your body isn't going to break the same law of thermodynamics that everyone else's has to follow. So hit your numbers with whatever foods you want. As you start getting contest lean, below setpoint, single digits, etc...THEN you can start worrying about nutrient timing, and the other finer details that *may* make a difference.

Lastly, I agree that it's easier to start losing weight with the typical 'bro' diet. However there are always 2 sides to every coin. Many develop an unknown eating disorder, evident when they ask on somewhere like bodybuilding.com if it's ok to have Thanksgiving Turkey, or they flip out because they missed their Casein shake before bed

That's the kind of thing I want to discourage. Sorry for the long rant.

I def. agree with the vast majority of this, I just would have a hard time giving the recommendation to a novice that eating junk food is"allowable". To me, thats just setting them back a step when they should be moving forward.

Is it allowable? Absolutely.

Id rather recommend a shift towards healthier nutritional habits. Its a much easier and safer way to have someone lose weight/look better/feel better. Iabsolutely agree with your notion that it boils down to in vs. out but for anyone who hasnt well versed in exercising, nutrition, food content, and even whatsa "good food vs. a bad food" I think its keeping them from progressing.


I think im just going to take the rest of the weekend off and get back to lifting on Monday. Im at the tail end of my last week of this workout cycle so Imthinking of resting/stretching.

 

[yankeephan87]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

gnc has terrible prices but right now they have a lot of stuff 25% off and an extra 30% off with the code "GIVETHANKS".

search for gnc.com with bing.com to get 25% cash back rebate.

just copped 2 5lb. tubs of ON natural whey, 2 2lb. tubs of ON natural casein, 1 1.93lb tub of ON hydro whey, 2 1.1lb tubs of AEN Intrabolic, and a gold card (for an extra 15% off)

total : 177.94, and i get a $44.49 rebate check.

not too shabby

Hook us up with that gold card id