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If you only lose Oubre,with Bragg coming in and I think you guys land Zimmerman too,you good on bigs...
The College Basketball Post
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by allen3xis,
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Sonny Corinthos
formerly joeclear
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I don't see Zimmerman at KU bro
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UNLV or Zona? I won't be shocked if UK doesn't even make his final 3...
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Not disagreeing, but what makes you say this?
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I feel like this is Bill Self of subtlety sabotaging Cliffs draft stock so that he comes back.
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I swear to god every time I come in this thread somebody is making excuses for Bill Self on why his best players aren't performing.
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Cliff was the better of the two freshmen early on ironically enough.
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He should come back anyway. What's he going to play in the league? Doesn't have a midrange game.
I am not making excuses on why Cliff isn't performing. I am saying that there is a reason Self isn't playing Cliff as much as others would. (Self sees more in Cliff, wants to get it out of him....Cliff not practicing hard/well.....Cliff injured/sick?......Sees the longterm is far more important than the short-term, etc...) KU is better with Cliff on the floor, obviously, everyone sees that, so Self does too. There's a reason behind it.
Sonny Corinthos
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He could very well go to a blue blood school if there's playing time early, but I always got the feeling his mom wanted him to stay on the West Coast.
U
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Self is doing what Self always does, looks out for Self. He consistently puts his freshman in positions where they will likely not succeed because it increases the chance of them becoming a multi-year player for him. What's more valuable than a freshman 5-star? A sophomore or junior 5-star.
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i'm not a fan of self whatsoever. he's got a couple of guys on his staff that i respect and were great to me when they were at st johns, but i just don't like self, the system they run and kansas as whole.
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Never understood why people were high on Cliff. From personally watching him...I saw an undersized raw 4, with average athleticism, great strength, long arms and good motor.
I just didn't see a top 5-10 pick. Cliff is doing exactly what I expected.
Now Oubre is another story. That's on Self. Oubre has talent, he'd shine elsewhere though.
Really opened my eyes when Selby went to Kansas that Self doesn't put his perimeter blue chip freshman in positions to shine. I'd never go to Kansas if I was a big time guard/wing.
I just didn't see a top 5-10 pick. Cliff is doing exactly what I expected.
Now Oubre is another story. That's on Self. Oubre has talent, he'd shine elsewhere though.
Really opened my eyes when Selby went to Kansas that Self doesn't put his perimeter blue chip freshman in positions to shine. I'd never go to Kansas if I was a big time guard/wing.
U
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Self consistently puts his guards and wings in a position that just makes them look worse than they are. Oubre, Selden, Wiggins, Selby, etc. Had they gone to other schools they would have been even better. Kids need to wise up and realize he costs players money in the end.
I know Wiggins went first in the draft, but there is no doubt he would have had a much better freshman season playing for K or Cal. Self is not a coach that develops players. He's a leech.
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i wouldn't say he's a leech, his system is just really rigid and he doesn't have the best developmental guys on his staff.
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McLemore? Henry? Wiggins? Embiid?
Self pushed those guys out the door because he knew that was best for them.
I can personally guarantee you that McLemore and Embiid wanted to stay and Self talked them out of it.
Now, there's guys like Selby, who's attitude sucked and had injury issues. Selden (last year) was in Wiggins/Embiid's shadow. Not EVERY top freshman is going to be successful and live up to the hype.
Agreed on Cliff. I honestly don't see him doing anything in the NBA. What's he going to play? He's a college player with limited NBA upside.
Oubre is coming along, he's been KU's best player (along w/ Frank) for the past month.
Regarding Selby, he's not just going to throw guys out there that can play like some other coaches do. Selby wasn't good enough to play, end of story. There were guards on that team that made KU a whole lot better when they were on the floor and Selby was on the bench.
Why does everyone think Wiggins had a poor season at KU? Dude averaged 17 and 6...that's pretty good.
Selden/Selby just weren't good their freshman years. Overhyped.
Oubre is getting better, as stated earlier players at KU have to earn their time...that's why Cliff hasn't been playing much. His practices have sucked, his defense has sucked (refer to this article...) Self isn't going to say "oh, Cliff, you were the third best HS player, you're an automatic starter..." If Self thinks he can be better, he's going to push him to be better.
Regarding developing players...c'mon man. Withey? Morrii? Tyrel Reed? Aldrich? Those players were far better leaving KU than when they got there.
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McLemore came from a horrible family situation. I doubt coming back was an option for him.
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Was waiting for someone to use this one. Who isn't going to improve just from living another 3 or 4 years of life?
And come on, two seven footers who will get drafted just because of height. Is there a second Tyrel Reed? The only one I know of was Mr. Basketball in his state and ended up averaging less than 10ppg as a senior in college. Self's strength is that he somehow convinces kids to come play with him and gamble with their draft stock and pro prospects. Self does not make kids better. He pressures them to run his system even if it does not fit his personnel and even if it is the players' detriment.
His system can win basketball games and he has proven that, but he has to have the right players for it. Those players are upperclassmen. He refuses to adjust for the good of his team personnel.
As much as I enjoy seeing Duke take its knocks from having some terribly overranked players, K has shown his desire to win is even greater than his ego. He has made some adjustments. Even his recruiting has changed to fit the times.
Self has the right last name.
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I saw Withey play in high school, he was beyond bad man...was just another seven footer, had no game whatsoever. Leaves KU being a force.
What about the Morris twins? They developed their games a ton...weren't even highly regarded prospects coming out of college.
I am not saying Reed was an AA but a 3 star recruit who turned into a really good college player and was a key piece in winning the Big 12.
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Let's present this a different way. You have a son who is a guard with the potential to be a OaD. Your son needs a little prodding to play hard. He needs to learn the importance of committing on defense. Once again the goal is to have him play one year in college and be a lottery pick. Your only interest is achieving that goal, not whether he plays for your favorite uni or not. He has an offer for KU and UK. Would you feel his prospects were equal with those two choices?
langfor5
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To put it this way Self has a proven track record of taking guys and getting the most out of players that aren't the most talented or heavily recruited. Morris Twins, Aldrich, T-Rob, Tyshawn Taylor, etc. His strengths have always been with guys that fit into his system and play the way he wants to play. I will say that Self's track record with wings, at least getting them into the NBA is not as good as other coaches but really when you get a guy that is talented enough to be a OAD you aren't coaching him more of that you are managing him.
I will say this...I do believe that Self is stubborn and will not adapt to the players that are around him. This year is case in point. Self loves to play a high-lo offense but this year we don't have a true 4 or 5. IMO I would cater and build my offense around the skills of the players we have. But that is hard to say because there are 10 Big 12 titles, 2 Final Fours and National Championship banner hanging from the rafters in AFH that say his way works.
To answer your questions soychulo...that is a hard question to answer. There are a lot of other factors that play into that. Who is in front of me? What kind of offense did I come from in high school? Who are the other guys on the team that I am playing with? If I am guard that plays a wide open, fast paced offense I would go to UK. If I am more familiar with an offense that is high ball screen, side to side action I would go to KU.
I will say this...I do believe that Self is stubborn and will not adapt to the players that are around him. This year is case in point. Self loves to play a high-lo offense but this year we don't have a true 4 or 5. IMO I would cater and build my offense around the skills of the players we have. But that is hard to say because there are 10 Big 12 titles, 2 Final Fours and National Championship banner hanging from the rafters in AFH that say his way works.
To answer your questions soychulo...that is a hard question to answer. There are a lot of other factors that play into that. Who is in front of me? What kind of offense did I come from in high school? Who are the other guys on the team that I am playing with? If I am guard that plays a wide open, fast paced offense I would go to UK. If I am more familiar with an offense that is high ball screen, side to side action I would go to KU.
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kid from st joseph going to ku looked good today
bragg
bragg
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I'm seeing Justise Winslow going top 5 in some mocks. Who would have guessed that before the year? I thought dude was at least a 3 year player.
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3 year player why ?
Winslow was a top 10 or at the lowest top 15 player in his class from the jump i thought 2 years in school at the most
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Yeah. Winslow has been a projected lottery pick. This draft is weak as hell to me. Aside from Okafor and Mudiay, I don't want any of em.
Now Ben Simmons, Jaylen Brown, Malik Newman, Harry Giles and and all the '16 kids are who is really up next.
Now Ben Simmons, Jaylen Brown, Malik Newman, Harry Giles and and all the '16 kids are who is really up next.
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This is what I've been saying. Which is why the Sixers might as well start actually trying to win some games. We have Embiid so Okafor doesn't fit, and we have MCW so Mudiay doesn't really fit unless somebody was to give us something of good value for him.
