The Official NBA Season Thread: Cashflow 👋🕊️

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Kobe played in the dead ball era of basketball and his prime spanned basically from 2000-2013 and put up 28/6/5 on 46/34/84 during that span. That's ridiculous, he's going to get underrated as time goes by because of this juiced era of basketball now. Got idiots comparing Harden and others to him.
 
Think Kobe is in the 8-12 range, but his accomplishments on the surface level to warrant top five status.
Whether it was his death- seems like I see Kobe reels every other day since his passing- or not- when you absorb what he was able to do and compare it to what the game looks like today (not a dig. not a dig. not a dig. not a dig.)- idk but my stance definitely changed on him. His accolades, even aside from his "overrated" defense are pretty undeniable

Not really rose colored glasses either- just a matter of me kind of forgetting that era and what he was able to do on a nightly basis. Just weird cuz I feel like the late 90's up to 2012 was just yesterday

People here still sleep on his dunks too :smh:
 
Kobe was a great on ball defender and great off ball help defender.

What he was atrocious as he got older was the non glorious parts of defense and he’d absolutely die on screens and not fight through them and once he cheated to try and make an off ball play he was so lazy to get back to his man.

I get it tho he’s like that old guy that feels he does enough out there that he doesn’t need to do that grind house work anymore.

Let's see what his coach Phil Jackson thought about his defense during that time.

“Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team.
The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense.
"Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground.”


but who knows maybe Phil is just some Kobe hater.

the problem is the numbers also bear this out.
this is from 03 onwards aside from a few season his teams were generally better defensively when he was off the court.
and here his on off as compared with ron artest for example.

Kobe vs Ron artest

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Kobe Bryant is the Derek Jeter of basketball when it comes to defense,
Frobe was a very good defender, but every other Kobe was just somewhere between solid to inconsistent to bad depending on his age / level of effort.

The Pau-kobe lakers were an elite defense because of their size, rebounding and rim protection, specifically the front court of Bynum, Odom, and Pau, + Ron Artest.
Kobe was a helpful part of it , but the idea that it was him driving their defense performance is crazy.

He wasn't better than Ron, or Bruce Bown, at that time, he wasn't terrorizing people like Kawhi.
it's just a total rewrite of history to pretend that he was.
 
The Kobe defense thing is particularly galling,
we we're all alive at the time.

it wasn't like he was Kawhi terrorizing people, or even like Jordan and Pippen just making it impossible to dribble on the perimiter.


people think you can just quote the all defenses teams and we all have to sit around and pretend we all weren't there.


nobody really thought Kobe post Frobe was just locking people down,

if you had a star perimeter scorer on your team.
when the lakers came to town you def didn't around quaking in your boots about Kobe clamping your guy,

no one thought he was as good as say a Ron Artest, or Bruce Bowen or even a Shane Battier.


back then like gold gloves we just gave all defense teams to famous players who played solid d.
 
Steph has not one time won anything in an adverse or desperate situation.

Golden State wasn't down 2-1 in the Finals, on the road in Boston and Steph didn't put up 43/10/4 while shooting 53% from the field (incl. 7-14 from 3) en route to a victory as well as wins in Game 5 and Game 6?

You can't say "not one time" for a scenario-based take like that and expect to be taken seriously just like you can't say "in no particular order after #1" and expect folks to think you are serious.
 
If the general consensus (which I'm assuming) is that Wade>Tmac then it seems quite unlikely that PP has any case
At their position, only MJ and Kobe can be put ahead of Wade.

It's hard to make an argument for PP even being top 10 at his.

The Heat in general have been living rent free in that man's head for over a decade though, he's had something to say damn near every month lately :lol:
 
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