The Official NBA Season Thread: NBA Cup Begins | Embiid Debut | Klay Return

[addict4sneakers]

Hakeem is top 10 with 3 deep playoff runs?

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Hakeem is top 10 with 3 deep playoff runs?

see

circles we go

 

[Maximus Meridius]

A lot of those guys have gone back and basically recanted the Harden better than Kobe talk though lol.

They don't have a choice after Harden got exposed

Why would they say it anyway? It was wild disrespectful at the time.

My point is that is was said out of bias/dislike for somebody. This thread does not represent most people that know basketball.

 

[elpablo21]

Harden and Kobe comps in 2018?

Did I miss something here

 

[dman14]

dog days of nba summer. where is dame to send a cryptic message? harden?

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Harden and Kobe comps in 2018?

Did I miss something here

antidope addict4sneakers floor is ya'lls

 

[nick.]

GOAT debates & top ten lists on the Lord's day

 

[RustyShackleford]

The FIBA World Cup needs to start

The thread has officially hit its summer low point

 

[elpablo21]

 

[Moheezy]

The FIBA World Cup needs to start

The thread has officially hit its summer low point

My brother in law is reffing there and I will be making my way to Manila soon

 

[Moheezy]

KD is my man buy I doubt he even takes ylthose rings seriously. But he knew this was going to happen before he went to GSW.

Him defending those rings seems more like him trying to convince himself they meant anything.

 

[Moheezy]

I feel bad for Russ, he just wanted to get shots up and the media captured it. Now it's an ongoing meme

 

[storm2006]

It’s tough to win. Incredibly tough.

This can’t be emphasized enough. In my opinion, I think that was a factor in why KD joined GSW. At least more so than teaming with KAI/Harden and Book/Beal. GSW had not only already been to the promised land so they knew what it took but also had all the pieces in place for him seamlessly fit in. Now that I think about it, that was probably the “easiest” pathway to a championship in the super team era IMO.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

The FIBA World Cup needs to start

The thread has officially hit its summer low point

*Summer Shambles

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Honky Phil Jackson always been a hater. He wanted the glory over his players

Kobe was a top 3 wing defender his whole career what are we doing here…

he wasn't tho, we were all there, no need to pretend.
Nobody thought he was in the league of Artest, Tony Allen, Battier, or Bruce Bowen or Jason Kidd. no one ever really thought that. no need to rewrite history.

like we don't need to pretend just because we like to give Gold Glove awards to famous hitters.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Or with the game being basically an entire different sport during the 50s and 60s to post-merger number of teams, players, rules, etc; guys like Russell, Wilt, Elgin, are tougher to evaluate on their place in comparison to the people that came after them. They are all time greats for their eras for sure and their resumes stack up with anyone else that's ever played the game.

comparing era's is difficult, but we are all smart people and we should use our brains to form coherent arguments based on facts and logic.

instead of appealing to "resumes"
the resume can give you a hint about what happened but it's not close to the final word.

For example Wilt won a ton of scoring titles but was very clearly not the best offensive player of his era. it was West or Oscar.

Looking at games and clips Wilt is that dominant of an athlete but he's also playing mostly against dudes that were 6'9 send under (including Russell). How does one comprehend averaging 50 ppg a season or the crazy numbers that Elgin put up?

it's not that hard to imagine. He played all the minutes, he shot all the time, and the game was played super fast so there were way more possessions.

if you look per possession Wilt scoring rate was similar to other high volume scorers of modern eras.

Wilt scored 40% of his teams point in his 50 ppg season,
Kobe scored 43% in his top scoring season
MJ score 43% in his top scoring season.

he scored 28.7 points per 75 possessions, that would have ranked 7th in 2020

50's basketball isn't ancient hieroglyphics we are totally capable of using our brains and putting it in the proper context.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

he wasn't tho, we were all there, no need to pretend.
Nobody thought he was in the league of Artest, Tony Allen, Battier, or Bruce Bowen or Jason Kidd. no one ever really thought that. no need to rewrite history.

like we don't need to pretend just because we like to give Gold Glove awards to famous hitters.




cmon man.
he's a worse offensive player than everyone on that list,
and a worse defensive player than everyone other than Magic.

ok man

Best offensive player =/= efficiency or even passing. Those aren't the only defining factors in that discussion, assuming that's what you were referring to

Bird wasn't that much if even at all a better defender

 

[osh kosh bosh]

ok man

Best offensive player =/= efficiency or even passing. Those aren't the only defining factors in that discussion, assuming that's what you were referring to

Bird wasn't that much if even at all a better defender

whoops sorry i misread your post, i didn't expand the quote so I thought it was just

MJ
Kareem
Lebron
Magic

so you are right, it's reasonable to have him in the top 10.

 

[WASHED KING]

The FIBA World Cup needs to start

The thread has officially hit its summer low point

It can get lower. This is when I shine.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

this is a great video on Wilt, and includes an important point about the way they called offensive fouls that limited his effectiveness of his power game in the post.

and how they used split cuts, with Wilt in the post similar to modern day GSW with draymond in the post.

 

[WASHED KING]

Good thing Jordan ducked Hakeem in the mid 90’s with that first retirement

 

[MVP]

Bill Russell with his 15 ppg on 44% shooting at a center was one of the best OFFENSIVE players of his era?

 

[g-time]

Hakeem did have a winning record against MJ lol. I really wish Stockton missed that 3 in the WCF that sent them to face MJ instead.

 

[moderndarwin]

We really can’t be talking bout Wilt and Russell. Those guys played in a completely different league we have truly truly no idea how good they are as basketball players.

They could be the best ever to lace them up or they could be gleague level players we legit don’t know. Can’t compare the results of a shark in a pond to a shark in the ocean. The game wasn’t global. Mostly white guys playing. Population of the available b-ball players was like 1/100th of today.

I don’t get why people can’t see that. Even with all the best scouting and videos available today we have no idea how good a guy like Wembayama is gonna turn out to be. Yet we’re gonna take footage from a bygone era and somehow hold it up as evidence of a sure fire level of success they’d have now. Bogus.

They clearly are top 10 players of their era. And easily top 10 most important to the game.

Lists really should only be 1980+ and only discuss the modern era.

Top 10 (in order):

Jordan
Shaq
Bird
Kareem
Kobe
Lebron
Steph
Magic
Olujawon
Duncan

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Bill Russell with his 15 ppg on 44% shooting at a center was one of the best OFFENSIVE players of his era?

Whoops, I meant to write Oscar Robertson