THE OFFICIAL NIKE KOBE FOOTWEAR THREAD: RIP LEGEND 1978-2020. MAMBA FOREVER | 8-24-24

I don't understand the business decision to have super small releases of insanely demanded product. Nike doesn't make anything off the secondary market.

They can't like the idea of resellers making money off the death of one of their own. You destroy their market by flooding product.

They mass produce the 11s every year and they sell out. Why leave millions off the table?
They could drastically increase supply and it would still sell out. As it stands, it’s unattainable for most of the real Kobe fans, the people who would really appreciate owning the shoes. To be honest, I didn’t even try for these because I didn’t think I had much of a chance anyway.
 
Reason why 98.89% of us struck out
 

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They could drastically increase supply and it would still sell out.
That would depend entirely on what the supply volume was versus what it is now, and no one knows exactly how many pairs Nike has been making of Kobes. If the supply was tripled or quadrupled, it might very well still sell out, but probably not in six seconds. More people would have a much better shot. If Nike's only making 10K pairs of these Protros, that's nothing. If it made 300K pairs like it does for some Jordan retros, totally different story. The reality is that the demand for Kobe shoes is overall nowhere near the same as it is for Jordans. If it was, the resale prices would be even higher. I never thought we'd see the day where the holiday 11 release was a walk in the park compared to some retro Kobes. Increasing the production runs significantly would absolutely make a difference compared to how it's been for these ZKV protro releases.
 
That would depend entirely on what the supply volume was versus what it is now, and no one knows exactly how many pairs Nike has been making of Kobes. If the supply was tripled or quadrupled, it might very well still sell out, but probably not in six seconds. More people would have a much better shot. If Nike's only making 10K pairs of these Protros, that's nothing. If it made 300K pairs like it does for some Jordan retros, totally different story. The reality is that the demand for Kobe shoes is overall nowhere near the same as it is for Jordans. If it was, the resale prices would be even higher. I never thought we'd see the day where the holiday 11 release was a walk in the park compared to some retro Kobes. Increasing the production runs significantly would absolutely make a difference compared to how it's been for these ZKV protro releases.

I have a sneaking suspicion they've increased supply more than we might think, but so many resellers/bots snatched up pairs that the initial cop is still next to impossible. The Five Rings settled at around 210-230 resale (which is basically break even considering fees and tax). That makes me think there are probably enough pairs out there for most folks who actually want to wear them. But there aren't so many pairs that launch day could satisfy both the normal consumers and the resellers. And in that battle, the resellers pretty much always win.
 
Nike has too do better man
Like F***

we all want Kobe’s especially since ppl who been down since day one and now it’s impossible too get anything

either make more pairs or have a lot of different colors not being a exclusive
 
I have a sneaking suspicion they've increased supply more than we might think, but so many resellers/bots snatched up pairs that the initial cop is still next to impossible. The Five Rings settled at around 210-230 resale (which is basically break even considering fees and tax). That makes me think there are probably enough pairs out there for most folks who actually want to wear them. But there aren't so many pairs that launch day could satisfy both the normal consumers and the resellers. And in that battle, the resellers pretty much always win.
Could be, but at the end of the day, make enough--I have no idea what the Mendoza Line is here for Kobe sneakers--and it will make a difference. It's always a case of supply and demand, even with the bots factored in. Bots don't change the basic laws of economics for non-essential items on a broad scale. The people running bots, they'd have to be brain-dead to keep buying up loads of shoes if the margins are essentially break-even margins. Or, if Nike produced 500K or a million or whatever pairs of Kobes, they'd be brain-dead to buy them all and front the money to do so when there probably aren't 500K people trying to buy the shoes even at MSRP.
 
Could be, but at the end of the day, make enough--I have no idea what the Mendoza Line is here for Kobe sneakers--and it will make a difference. It's always a case of supply and demand, even with the bots factored in. Bots don't change the basic laws of economics for non-essential items on a broad scale. The people running bots, they'd have to be brain-dead to keep buying up loads of shoes if the margins are essentially break-even margins. Or, if Nike produced 500K or a million or whatever pairs of Kobes, they'd be brain-dead to buy them all and front the money to do so when there probably aren't 500K people trying to buy the shoes even at MSRP.

Right, but we're all at an information deficit at this point. If I'm remembering correctly, the 5 rings were the first pair produced after Kobe's death, meaning it was also the first opportunity Nike had to significantly increase the production run. If resell on the BLs and Alts ends up near break even like the 5 rings did, I'd guess resellers would start to back off of the next releases. Of course, there's no guarantee that happens. But the fact that both pairs in my size 12 are already below $400, with offers around $350, before all of the pairs come in, certainly bodes well for the people who actually want to wear these shoes.
 
Is the flywire especially near the scratch supposed to be that obvious? Maybe its the lighting but looked different than I thought.

Naw its just the lighting to the material. The black is kinda like a woven material that has a metallic sheen like carbon fiber.
 
The Bruce Lee's released in Europe on SNKRS yesterday. Took a L on both versions as expected. Other websites will be announcing raffle winners within the next two days. Plenty of pairs are popping up on local websites via re-sellers. This makes me think that quantities are not quite as scarce as initially anticipated. Most re-sale prices are in the €250 to €300 range. The screenshot shows the search results for just size 10.5 from a local Ebay site. Don't want to pay re-sale but if I have to I'm willing to dish out an extra €75 - €100 for these Grails. Holding off for now as I hope to hit on one of these upcoming raffles.
 

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Right, but we're all at an information deficit at this point. If I'm remembering correctly, the 5 rings were the first pair produced after Kobe's death, meaning it was also the first opportunity Nike had to significantly increase the production run. If resell on the BLs and Alts ends up near break even like the 5 rings did, I'd guess resellers would start to back off of the next releases. Of course, there's no guarantee that happens. But the fact that both pairs in my size 12 are already below $400, with offers around $350, before all of the pairs come in, certainly bodes well for the people who actually want to wear these shoes.
Ya, we're definitely at an information deficit. Just to be clear, I'm not arguing with you; my main point going back to my first comment on it is, there's always a point where production volume CAN basically kill resale. It seems apparent that right now, so far, Nike has not found, or has not chosen to stretch to, that production volume. I imagine it's easier said than done, because as a company you don't want to overproduce product and have a large portion of it RTVd or sent to outlets. Maybe Nike is still, in the aftermath of Kobe's death and in the midst of a pandemic, trying to work out what the production volumes for these things should really be long-term.

To your point, though, I certainly have no idea how many pairs of each Protro release are made. But my gut tells me the nationwide demand for Kobes across a broad group of sneaker consumers is actually pretty small compared to, as I mentioned, Jordans. Nike'd been doing a good job the past few years making retro Js pretty reasonably easy to come by. Of course, that's changed as well during this pandemic. Basically, I think this is a bubble right now, and it's going to pass or at least settle down substantially at some point in the next year to 18 months. Part of the reason Nike and other brands don't just price their products at $350 MSRP themselves is because they know that in the big picture, there just aren't enough people willing to pay that much over and over again for sneakers. The $150-above-retail reseller game only works in the longer term if the production volumes are low enough to match the number of hard-core consumers who are willing to consistently pay that stupid resale price.
 
Good to know prices are dropping. Hopefully everyone can get a pair... ideally at retail or for a low re-sale price.
 
And to think people were saying BLs would be going for $500+ a couple months back
I was one of those people :emoji_sweat_smile:

The Bruce Lee V is my absolute Grail and favorite Kobe shoe since I got into Kobes around 2015 (I've always been a Jordan head and initially really disliked low top basketball sneakers. That all changed when I got my first pair of Kobes, the Bruce Lee IX).

Anyway, at the time the Kobe Bruce Lee V was so rare and seemed impossible to get without paying a crazy price. Based on this, I was just fearing the worst haha. Glad that I'm wrong.
 
Part of the reason Nike and other brands don't just price their products at $350 MSRP themselves is because they know that in the big picture, there just aren't enough people willing to pay that much over and over again for sneakers. The $150-above-retail reseller game only works in the longer term if the production volumes are low enough to match the number of hard-core consumers who are willing to consistently pay that stupid resale price.

You think so? I feel like it must be that they don't want the negative publicity from putting shoes out at a cost of $275 consistently, and other issues that arise when the market does what it does. Because otherwise, that's how capitalism and the markets are supposed to work. The price of a good should naturally settle at the price where there are steady sales. It's at what, $180 now, and the shoes instantly sell out. Like literally in 3 minutes nationwide. So if this was a generic company, on the next restock or release, the price should go up by whatever 'company x's market analysts think the market would bear. So the price goes up to $225, say. Would everybody still buy these at $225? You bet. Sells out nearly instantly still. Next restock/release, the price goes up to $280. Now, the product no longer sells out instantly, but would probably still sell out within an hour. People still take Ls though, and are upset they can't get the shoe. Price on next release goes up to $300. Now you've got a pretty good shot at getting the specific shoe you want if you're there at the release time.

Now with tax, you've got a shoe that anybody who has purchased it, has paid $330 or so. Is anybody regular playing in it? Probably not. The reseller market takes a big hit because with the fees, you've probably got to price the shoe at $400. So

1. The margins on each sale are smaller, as the upper bound of pricing should decrease to a narrow range above retail for the final price. Too high ($500+) and few are paying. Too low and there's no profit.
2. Hopefully fewer resellers have the capital in the first place to buy like 5 pairs and resell them. Right now if you did that, it's about a $950 investment (5 pairs). But if the price after tax is $330 per shoe, now it's a $1650 investment. Still possible, but hopefully more resellers would be locked out by that. And on top of that, the sneakerheads who really really want the shoe, who would be likely to pay that higher resale price, already got their pair since its possible now right at release time, so you're taking care of the demand that comes from the sneakerheads like us. So the reseller market will decline off of that too.
3. The more resale fails, the more that market dries up and the less people view that as an avenue to make money off of us.

But the downside is the publicity. It also hurts the company generally, because if you don't have $330 to spend for a shoe, that's it. You just don't have the money. People aren't clamoring over releases, and instead start to feel priced out of anything new, since all the new Jordan/Kobe/Lebron stuff will be $300, $310, $330 from jump. I mean those one Red/Blue Lebron 17s were $250 last year at release. Some pairs are still floating around, but they sold out a lot of sizes on NDC. But how many people would move to Adidas? Get some Dame 7s for $100. Get some Curry 8s for $150 or whatever.

There are a lot of considerations and this is only barely scratching the surface. I just think it's a lot more complex than (and I'm not saying you specifically said this) "make more pairs! it's that easy! but nike won't do it!".
 
You think so? I feel like it must be that they don't want the negative publicity from putting shoes out at a cost of $275 consistently, and other issues that arise when the market does what it does. Because otherwise, that's how capitalism and the markets are supposed to work. The price of a good should naturally settle at the price where there are steady sales. It's at what, $180 now, and the shoes instantly sell out. Like literally in 3 minutes nationwide. So if this was a generic company, on the next restock or release, the price should go up by whatever 'company x's market analysts think the market would bear. So the price goes up to $225, say. Would everybody still buy these at $225? You bet. Sells out nearly instantly still. Next restock/release, the price goes up to $280. Now, the product no longer sells out instantly, but would probably still sell out within an hour. People still take Ls though, and are upset they can't get the shoe. Price on next release goes up to $300. Now you've got a pretty good shot at getting the specific shoe you want if you're there at the release time.

Now with tax, you've got a shoe that anybody who has purchased it, has paid $330 or so. Is anybody regular playing in it? Probably not. The reseller market takes a big hit because with the fees, you've probably got to price the shoe at $400. So

1. The margins on each sale are smaller, as the upper bound of pricing should decrease to a narrow range above retail for the final price. Too high ($500+) and few are paying. Too low and there's no profit.
2. Hopefully fewer resellers have the capital in the first place to buy like 5 pairs and resell them. Right now if you did that, it's about a $950 investment (5 pairs). But if the price after tax is $330 per shoe, now it's a $1650 investment. Still possible, but hopefully more resellers would be locked out by that. And on top of that, the sneakerheads who really really want the shoe, who would be likely to pay that higher resale price, already got their pair since its possible now right at release time, so you're taking care of the demand that comes from the sneakerheads like us. So the reseller market will decline off of that too.
3. The more resale fails, the more that market dries up and the less people view that as an avenue to make money off of us.

But the downside is the publicity. It also hurts the company generally, because if you don't have $330 to spend for a shoe, that's it. You just don't have the money. People aren't clamoring over releases, and instead start to feel priced out of anything new, since all the new Jordan/Kobe/Lebron stuff will be $300, $310, $330 from jump. I mean those one Red/Blue Lebron 17s were $250 last year at release. Some pairs are still floating around, but they sold out a lot of sizes on NDC. But how many people would move to Adidas? Get some Dame 7s for $100. Get some Curry 8s for $150 or whatever.

There are a lot of considerations and this is only barely scratching the surface. I just think it's a lot more complex than (and I'm not saying you specifically said this) "make more pairs! it's that easy! but nike won't do it!".

Nike tried to raise the prices on basketball sneakers awhile back and it failed. Remember the elite series from a few years ago? Had playoff shoes with "high end materials" retailing for $250+. A few of the rarer colorways sold out (the South Beach 2.0's come to mind), but most of them sat. Even now you can find some of the LeBron's for way below retail.

Part of Nike's problem, or more accurately, the problem for Nike consumers like us, is that Nike is actually in two different, distinct markets. The sportswear market acts like most consumers would expect it to. But Nike also sells collectibles, which just happen to take the form of pieces of sportswear. Sometimes, if it's a collab with an artist or fashion designer or something like that, it's obvious that Nike is making a collectible that no one intends to use as anything other than a show piece. But with stuff like Kobes, no one can really tell which market Nike is trying to fill, or which market most consumers will consider the product to be part of. If Nike is just trying to have Kobes be mass produced basketball shoes, then they should absolutely do what they can to kill the resell market. Resellers are keeping consumers from using these shoes for their intended purpose, and so devaluing Nike's product (i.e., people will just switch to other basketball shoes, and not necessarily Nikes). But if Kobes are collectibles now, then Nike probably wants the secondary market to thrive so that their brand continues to appreciate.

Alright, that's enough econ and marketing theorizing for the day. Happy Thanksgiving y'all!
 
Nike tried to raise the prices on basketball sneakers awhile back and it failed. Remember the elite series from a few years ago? Had playoff shoes with "high end materials" retailing for $250+. A few of the rarer colorways sold out (the South Beach 2.0's come to mind), but most of them sat. Even now you can find some of the LeBron's for way below retail.

Part of Nike's problem, or more accurately, the problem for Nike consumers like us, is that Nike is actually in two different, distinct markets. The sportswear market acts like most consumers would expect it to. But Nike also sells collectibles, which just happen to take the form of pieces of sportswear. Sometimes, if it's a collab with an artist or fashion designer or something like that, it's obvious that Nike is making a collectible that no one intends to use as anything other than a show piece. But with stuff like Kobes, no one can really tell which market Nike is trying to fill, or which market most consumers will consider the product to be part of. If Nike is just trying to have Kobes be mass produced basketball shoes, then they should absolutely do what they can to kill the resell market. Resellers are keeping consumers from using these shoes for their intended purpose, and so devaluing Nike's product (i.e., people will just switch to other basketball shoes, and not necessarily Nikes). But if Kobes are collectibles now, then Nike probably wants the secondary market to thrive so that their brand continues to appreciate.

Alright, that's enough econ and marketing theorizing for the day. Happy Thanksgiving y'all!

No, do more! This stuff is interesting to me and that's really good analysis.

Have a good turkey day though :lol:
 
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