The Ultimate Soccer Thread 2010-2011 VOL. Premier league, La Liga, Serie A & Bundesliga

[hoosiers4life]

Originally Posted by forwardlean

ChampCruThik wrote:
First thing I want to say about City is the Toure brothers are GROWN *+$ MEN. Both are physical on the ball and solid defensively. Pushing Yaya up the pitch on counter attacks has proven to be beneficial all season long. He was one of the few City players who showed productivity offensively along with Tevez and Adam Johnson (for a short stretch). Kompany and Hart impressed much of the game. Richards is a strong kid and make a couple nice runs but I find he's out of position at times and luckily Milner tracked back to fill space. Is anyone convinced Kolarov is the sure first-choice LB over Zabaleta or Boateng? Overall, typical Mancini with the conservative and extremely defensive Italian approach to not concede. I have no trouble with the style or result, but at some point you have to get after it and challenge Koscielny and Djourou more in the middle. Jo in the starting 11 was questionable, that's Adam Johnson's spot to me. We'll see what kind of impact the Bosnian Bomber can have on City's title hopes and I'm assuming Mancini will play Dzeko with Tevez on the pitch. How will he do it though, Dzeko lone up top with Tevez playing behind him?  

Yeah, Yaya Toure is by far the best midfielder in the EPL this season in my opinion.  Big lad, puts himself about but can thread a pass and has a really high footballing IQ.  You wouldn't think it when you see him lumbering around the pitch...great signing though. 
People cut down city because of the spending, which is natural.  The owners have to do this in the immediate term to see any ROI.  It was the same with Chelsea, but now they've miraculously become part of the footballing elite (after being rejected on more than one occasion by the G14).  Perspective is needed.  This is their short term business model, and it will work.  They just need to offload the infectious negative players like Balotelli, Tevez, Ade et. al. and they'll be fine.  Also, I don't think there is any shame in playing defense first when you're away versus your closest rivals.  Certainly, City could do with a midfield creator, but they're limited with injuries, hence Jo's start. 

Good day for United.  Now they just have to click and begin rolling.  Yesterday was not pretty.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing i've ever read.  Really, Toure has been better than Nasri? Van der Vaart? Bale? Fabregas?

I'm not going to put City down for spending a lot of money, that needed to be done if they truly wanted to be competitive, but the way they've done it is going to backfire.  Just like buying Dzeko when they already have Tevez, Adebayor, Balotelli, Santa Cruz, and Jo. I know RSC and Jo haven't played much but they both were 18 million pound signings. This is not their short term business model. There will always be this kind of turnover with owners like this.  I don't see these guys being like Abramovic and dialing back the signings.  I hate them, they are going to ruin the league and its disappointing.  There are a lot of guys who are second and third string that would be starters on even mid-table clubs. The only world class players on that squad are Tevez and Hart.

Mancini is garbage.  As an Arsenal fan I am almost always nervous for vast stretches of the game about conceding, but not once during the game today was I even a little concerned that City would score.  They play like Birmingham which is an abomination given their talent.  Wigan, Blackburn, and West Ham are the kind of team that should be happy with a Draw, not title contenders.

 

[keepie uppie]

Originally Posted by black chiney

Originally Posted by Aztec

Originally Posted by Rukawa sj

What a good day for United...

Beautiful Day

 

  

 

[keepie uppie]

Originally Posted by black chiney

Originally Posted by Aztec

Originally Posted by Rukawa sj

What a good day for United...

Beautiful Day

 

  

 

[hoosiers4life]

Originally Posted by forwardlean

ChampCruThik wrote:
First thing I want to say about City is the Toure brothers are GROWN *+$ MEN. Both are physical on the ball and solid defensively. Pushing Yaya up the pitch on counter attacks has proven to be beneficial all season long. He was one of the few City players who showed productivity offensively along with Tevez and Adam Johnson (for a short stretch). Kompany and Hart impressed much of the game. Richards is a strong kid and make a couple nice runs but I find he's out of position at times and luckily Milner tracked back to fill space. Is anyone convinced Kolarov is the sure first-choice LB over Zabaleta or Boateng? Overall, typical Mancini with the conservative and extremely defensive Italian approach to not concede. I have no trouble with the style or result, but at some point you have to get after it and challenge Koscielny and Djourou more in the middle. Jo in the starting 11 was questionable, that's Adam Johnson's spot to me. We'll see what kind of impact the Bosnian Bomber can have on City's title hopes and I'm assuming Mancini will play Dzeko with Tevez on the pitch. How will he do it though, Dzeko lone up top with Tevez playing behind him?  

Yeah, Yaya Toure is by far the best midfielder in the EPL this season in my opinion.  Big lad, puts himself about but can thread a pass and has a really high footballing IQ.  You wouldn't think it when you see him lumbering around the pitch...great signing though. 
People cut down city because of the spending, which is natural.  The owners have to do this in the immediate term to see any ROI.  It was the same with Chelsea, but now they've miraculously become part of the footballing elite (after being rejected on more than one occasion by the G14).  Perspective is needed.  This is their short term business model, and it will work.  They just need to offload the infectious negative players like Balotelli, Tevez, Ade et. al. and they'll be fine.  Also, I don't think there is any shame in playing defense first when you're away versus your closest rivals.  Certainly, City could do with a midfield creator, but they're limited with injuries, hence Jo's start. 

Good day for United.  Now they just have to click and begin rolling.  Yesterday was not pretty.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing i've ever read.  Really, Toure has been better than Nasri? Van der Vaart? Bale? Fabregas?

I'm not going to put City down for spending a lot of money, that needed to be done if they truly wanted to be competitive, but the way they've done it is going to backfire.  Just like buying Dzeko when they already have Tevez, Adebayor, Balotelli, Santa Cruz, and Jo. I know RSC and Jo haven't played much but they both were 18 million pound signings. This is not their short term business model. There will always be this kind of turnover with owners like this.  I don't see these guys being like Abramovic and dialing back the signings.  I hate them, they are going to ruin the league and its disappointing.  There are a lot of guys who are second and third string that would be starters on even mid-table clubs. The only world class players on that squad are Tevez and Hart.

Mancini is garbage.  As an Arsenal fan I am almost always nervous for vast stretches of the game about conceding, but not once during the game today was I even a little concerned that City would score.  They play like Birmingham which is an abomination given their talent.  Wigan, Blackburn, and West Ham are the kind of team that should be happy with a Draw, not title contenders.

 

[keepie uppie]

Originally Posted by trunks206

But on a lighter note... Alex Song's new hairdo.

dude going for that King Neptune look just like ol' Abel Xavier:

 

[keepie uppie]

Originally Posted by trunks206

But on a lighter note... Alex Song's new hairdo.

dude going for that King Neptune look just like ol' Abel Xavier:

 

[carlos tevez]

I agree, Yaya Toure may very well be the best CM in the Premiership thus far. About his football IQ, thats what happens when you play in Spain...guys like him and Silva have a higher level thought process than most players on their team and in the Premiership. City still have too many players they dont need and I expect to see atleast 1 more major overhaul from them this year...probably in the summer when they've secured a CL birth and will have an easier time attracting some bigger names.

If I'm City's owners I look at whats happening to Chelsea and learn from their mistakes. Maybe it's a bit premature but it looks like Chelsea are on the decline. Abrahmovic isnt willing to lose much more money on the club anymore and he's been cutting costs recently. Besides acquiring Ramires and maybe 1-2 other players, Chelsea havent spent much money in the last few seasons. They recently got rid of veterans like Ballack, Deco, Cole, etc and let Carvalho leave as well which has left their bench void of experience as its full of a bunch of inexperienced and unproven youngsters. You look at Chelsea's starting XI and although its still good you begin to wonder if age has become a factor with some of those players. Chelsea appear to be in a hole right now and unless Abrahmovic decides to spend big again they may be in for a few years of turmoil.

Man City are going to spend until the new UEFA financial regulations are enforced in a couple of seasons but they also better start planning for the future and spend money on scouting, their youth academy, etc or else they may find themselves in a Chelsea-like situation 5-years down the road.

Ofcourse the best example in England for many years has probably been Man Utd. They've spent big in the past to fill holes on their team but they've also developed some of their own talent and even acquired some great bargains in the transfer market. If Man City are smart they bring in the best possible players now while also having an eye set towards the future.

 

[carlos tevez]

I agree, Yaya Toure may very well be the best CM in the Premiership thus far. About his football IQ, thats what happens when you play in Spain...guys like him and Silva have a higher level thought process than most players on their team and in the Premiership. City still have too many players they dont need and I expect to see atleast 1 more major overhaul from them this year...probably in the summer when they've secured a CL birth and will have an easier time attracting some bigger names.

If I'm City's owners I look at whats happening to Chelsea and learn from their mistakes. Maybe it's a bit premature but it looks like Chelsea are on the decline. Abrahmovic isnt willing to lose much more money on the club anymore and he's been cutting costs recently. Besides acquiring Ramires and maybe 1-2 other players, Chelsea havent spent much money in the last few seasons. They recently got rid of veterans like Ballack, Deco, Cole, etc and let Carvalho leave as well which has left their bench void of experience as its full of a bunch of inexperienced and unproven youngsters. You look at Chelsea's starting XI and although its still good you begin to wonder if age has become a factor with some of those players. Chelsea appear to be in a hole right now and unless Abrahmovic decides to spend big again they may be in for a few years of turmoil.

Man City are going to spend until the new UEFA financial regulations are enforced in a couple of seasons but they also better start planning for the future and spend money on scouting, their youth academy, etc or else they may find themselves in a Chelsea-like situation 5-years down the road.

Ofcourse the best example in England for many years has probably been Man Utd. They've spent big in the past to fill holes on their team but they've also developed some of their own talent and even acquired some great bargains in the transfer market. If Man City are smart they bring in the best possible players now while also having an eye set towards the future.

 

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by Oskar Kokoshka

Good ol' Mancini... parking the bus.

Loving the title race this year in England.

What race?

Man Utd havent even gotten out of 1st gear yet and comfortably sit atop of the table.

Man City spent all that money to be a boring, dysfunctional, defensive team. You best believe these bums are gonna drop more points along the way.

Arsenal are Arsenal

Chelsea are finished for this season.

Unless something drastic happens it looks like Man Utd are gonna run away with the title this season.

 Whatever.  There was a time early this season when some of us thought that Chelski would run away with the title, but look how things have changed.  But they can also easily go the other way at an instant.  That's the thing though, something drastic will always likely happen.  

 

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by Oskar Kokoshka

Good ol' Mancini... parking the bus.

Loving the title race this year in England.

What race?

Man Utd havent even gotten out of 1st gear yet and comfortably sit atop of the table.

Man City spent all that money to be a boring, dysfunctional, defensive team. You best believe these bums are gonna drop more points along the way.

Arsenal are Arsenal

Chelsea are finished for this season.

Unless something drastic happens it looks like Man Utd are gonna run away with the title this season.

 Whatever.  There was a time early this season when some of us thought that Chelski would run away with the title, but look how things have changed.  But they can also easily go the other way at an instant.  That's the thing though, something drastic will always likely happen.  

 

[champcruthik]

^ Good points, City's lack of a creative midfielder forces Yaya Toure into a more offensive role and he's been quite successful much like how Arsenal is utilizing Song deeper up the pitch. Just look at the stats - 3 goals in 18 league appearances this year compared to 4 total goals in 74 La Liga appearances for Barca. For all the world-class strikers Man City is adding, they could really use a creative midfielder type such as Iniesta. I think it would do wonders for the flow of their offensive attack and would also help get critics off Mancini's back about playing too conservative. 
I know plenty of soccer fans that share the sentiment about City's current spending and Chelsea's former spending. I don't have a problem with their big summer signings or their conservative defensive minded Italian approach under Mancini. Often times it's the wise approach to play on the cautious side against Arsenal and Manchester United for draws with De Jong/Barry/Yaya Toure disciplined and organized directly in front of their back 4 much of the game. I have a problem with their one goal defeats to Sunderland, Wolverhampton, and particularly Everton. The Everton match was home Anichebe sent off on the hour should have prompted a more aggressive attack from City to equalize and potentially take the lead in front of their home crowd. That was truly a wasteful display and a terrible way to leave 3 points on the pitch when your club has major aspirations for a domestic league title. 

It seems Adebayor is headed to Madrid on a loan and his recent physical altercation with Kolo Toure certainly doesn't help his future at Eastlands. Super Mario is inevitably destined for Milan, it's clearly his ultimate desire and will happen sooner than later. Despite the recent negative actions of captain Carlos Tevez, he's a player that I feel City cannot do without. He's the face of the club and their best player. Only 26 years old Tevez would be tough to replace. We'll see if he remains content at Eastlands. 

Only point I disagree with is Jo's start today. Even with injuries to Balotelli and Silva, Adam Johnson should be the choice.  

 

[champcruthik]

^ Good points, City's lack of a creative midfielder forces Yaya Toure into a more offensive role and he's been quite successful much like how Arsenal is utilizing Song deeper up the pitch. Just look at the stats - 3 goals in 18 league appearances this year compared to 4 total goals in 74 La Liga appearances for Barca. For all the world-class strikers Man City is adding, they could really use a creative midfielder type such as Iniesta. I think it would do wonders for the flow of their offensive attack and would also help get critics off Mancini's back about playing too conservative. 
I know plenty of soccer fans that share the sentiment about City's current spending and Chelsea's former spending. I don't have a problem with their big summer signings or their conservative defensive minded Italian approach under Mancini. Often times it's the wise approach to play on the cautious side against Arsenal and Manchester United for draws with De Jong/Barry/Yaya Toure disciplined and organized directly in front of their back 4 much of the game. I have a problem with their one goal defeats to Sunderland, Wolverhampton, and particularly Everton. The Everton match was home Anichebe sent off on the hour should have prompted a more aggressive attack from City to equalize and potentially take the lead in front of their home crowd. That was truly a wasteful display and a terrible way to leave 3 points on the pitch when your club has major aspirations for a domestic league title. 

It seems Adebayor is headed to Madrid on a loan and his recent physical altercation with Kolo Toure certainly doesn't help his future at Eastlands. Super Mario is inevitably destined for Milan, it's clearly his ultimate desire and will happen sooner than later. Despite the recent negative actions of captain Carlos Tevez, he's a player that I feel City cannot do without. He's the face of the club and their best player. Only 26 years old Tevez would be tough to replace. We'll see if he remains content at Eastlands. 

Only point I disagree with is Jo's start today. Even with injuries to Balotelli and Silva, Adam Johnson should be the choice.  

 

[forwardlean]

Originally Posted by hoosiers4life

Originally Posted by forwardlean

ChampCruThik wrote:
First thing I want to say about City is the Toure brothers are GROWN *+$ MEN. Both are physical on the ball and solid defensively. Pushing Yaya up the pitch on counter attacks has proven to be beneficial all season long. He was one of the few City players who showed productivity offensively along with Tevez and Adam Johnson (for a short stretch). Kompany and Hart impressed much of the game. Richards is a strong kid and make a couple nice runs but I find he's out of position at times and luckily Milner tracked back to fill space. Is anyone convinced Kolarov is the sure first-choice LB over Zabaleta or Boateng? Overall, typical Mancini with the conservative and extremely defensive Italian approach to not concede. I have no trouble with the style or result, but at some point you have to get after it and challenge Koscielny and Djourou more in the middle. Jo in the starting 11 was questionable, that's Adam Johnson's spot to me. We'll see what kind of impact the Bosnian Bomber can have on City's title hopes and I'm assuming Mancini will play Dzeko with Tevez on the pitch. How will he do it though, Dzeko lone up top with Tevez playing behind him?  

Yeah, Yaya Toure is by far the best midfielder in the EPL this season in my opinion.  Big lad, puts himself about but can thread a pass and has a really high footballing IQ.  You wouldn't think it when you see him lumbering around the pitch...great signing though. 
People cut down city because of the spending, which is natural.  The owners have to do this in the immediate term to see any ROI.  It was the same with Chelsea, but now they've miraculously become part of the footballing elite (after being rejected on more than one occasion by the G14).  Perspective is needed.  This is their short term business model, and it will work.  They just need to offload the infectious negative players like Balotelli, Tevez, Ade et. al. and they'll be fine.  Also, I don't think there is any shame in playing defense first when you're away versus your closest rivals.  Certainly, City could do with a midfield creator, but they're limited with injuries, hence Jo's start. 

Good day for United.  Now they just have to click and begin rolling.  Yesterday was not pretty.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing i've ever read.  Really, Toure has been better than Nasri? Van der Vaart? Bale? Fabregas?

I'm not going to put City down for spending a lot of money, that needed to be done if they truly wanted to be competitive, but the way they've done it is going to backfire.  Just like buying Dzeko when they already have Tevez, Adebayor, Balotelli, Santa Cruz, and Jo. I know RSC and Jo haven't played much but they both were 18 million pound signings. This is not their short term business model. There will always be this kind of turnover with owners like this.  I don't see these guys being like Abramovic and dialing back the signings.  I hate them, they are going to ruin the league and its disappointing.  There are a lot of guys who are second and third string that would be starters on even mid-table clubs. The only world class players on that squad are Tevez and Hart.

Mancini is garbage.  As an Arsenal fan I am almost always nervous for vast stretches of the game about conceding, but not once during the game today was I even a little concerned that City would score.  They play like Birmingham which is an abomination given their talent.  Wigan, Blackburn, and West Ham are the kind of team that should be happy with a Draw, not title contenders.

Ridiculous? No, not by any stretch if you understand tactical football.  Given your avatar and the comments, and today's result, your reaction isn't surprising.   The guys you've mentioned are without question having brilliant seasons, but they're not as important tactically as Toure.  He's as good of a two way player you'll find and if a team has to adjust their tactic mid game, he's the one guy who can adapt from being a high up pressing player, to a ball winner.  Nasri, Van der Vaart, Bale can't do this.  Sure, they've scored nice goals and are important to their team, but if you want to play to maximize your result you take a guy like Toure before any of them.  In a 4-5-1 he functions superbly to both create and destroy, and in a 4-4-2 he can play high and with the ball at his feet.  He's awesome on the counter and can absolutely neutralize any player in the world (see how well Fabregas and Wilshere did today?).  Like Makelele, he's very unsung. 

The selling on of Jo and Santa Cruz is exactly their short term model.  These guys are billionaires remember, 18M£ is a drop in the bucket.  Like abramovich, they're going to waste money early on.  Its part of the getting up to speed quickly.  If you've watched football for more than the last five years, City were in real trouble a while ago, both footballing and financially.  They weren't going to get high end players immediately, so over paying is the only way to do it.  They will absolutely dial back the signings...they've already said they will. 

I'm not a City supporter for what its worth.

 

[forwardlean]

Originally Posted by hoosiers4life

Originally Posted by forwardlean

ChampCruThik wrote:
First thing I want to say about City is the Toure brothers are GROWN *+$ MEN. Both are physical on the ball and solid defensively. Pushing Yaya up the pitch on counter attacks has proven to be beneficial all season long. He was one of the few City players who showed productivity offensively along with Tevez and Adam Johnson (for a short stretch). Kompany and Hart impressed much of the game. Richards is a strong kid and make a couple nice runs but I find he's out of position at times and luckily Milner tracked back to fill space. Is anyone convinced Kolarov is the sure first-choice LB over Zabaleta or Boateng? Overall, typical Mancini with the conservative and extremely defensive Italian approach to not concede. I have no trouble with the style or result, but at some point you have to get after it and challenge Koscielny and Djourou more in the middle. Jo in the starting 11 was questionable, that's Adam Johnson's spot to me. We'll see what kind of impact the Bosnian Bomber can have on City's title hopes and I'm assuming Mancini will play Dzeko with Tevez on the pitch. How will he do it though, Dzeko lone up top with Tevez playing behind him?  

Yeah, Yaya Toure is by far the best midfielder in the EPL this season in my opinion.  Big lad, puts himself about but can thread a pass and has a really high footballing IQ.  You wouldn't think it when you see him lumbering around the pitch...great signing though. 
People cut down city because of the spending, which is natural.  The owners have to do this in the immediate term to see any ROI.  It was the same with Chelsea, but now they've miraculously become part of the footballing elite (after being rejected on more than one occasion by the G14).  Perspective is needed.  This is their short term business model, and it will work.  They just need to offload the infectious negative players like Balotelli, Tevez, Ade et. al. and they'll be fine.  Also, I don't think there is any shame in playing defense first when you're away versus your closest rivals.  Certainly, City could do with a midfield creator, but they're limited with injuries, hence Jo's start. 

Good day for United.  Now they just have to click and begin rolling.  Yesterday was not pretty.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing i've ever read.  Really, Toure has been better than Nasri? Van der Vaart? Bale? Fabregas?

I'm not going to put City down for spending a lot of money, that needed to be done if they truly wanted to be competitive, but the way they've done it is going to backfire.  Just like buying Dzeko when they already have Tevez, Adebayor, Balotelli, Santa Cruz, and Jo. I know RSC and Jo haven't played much but they both were 18 million pound signings. This is not their short term business model. There will always be this kind of turnover with owners like this.  I don't see these guys being like Abramovic and dialing back the signings.  I hate them, they are going to ruin the league and its disappointing.  There are a lot of guys who are second and third string that would be starters on even mid-table clubs. The only world class players on that squad are Tevez and Hart.

Mancini is garbage.  As an Arsenal fan I am almost always nervous for vast stretches of the game about conceding, but not once during the game today was I even a little concerned that City would score.  They play like Birmingham which is an abomination given their talent.  Wigan, Blackburn, and West Ham are the kind of team that should be happy with a Draw, not title contenders.

Ridiculous? No, not by any stretch if you understand tactical football.  Given your avatar and the comments, and today's result, your reaction isn't surprising.   The guys you've mentioned are without question having brilliant seasons, but they're not as important tactically as Toure.  He's as good of a two way player you'll find and if a team has to adjust their tactic mid game, he's the one guy who can adapt from being a high up pressing player, to a ball winner.  Nasri, Van der Vaart, Bale can't do this.  Sure, they've scored nice goals and are important to their team, but if you want to play to maximize your result you take a guy like Toure before any of them.  In a 4-5-1 he functions superbly to both create and destroy, and in a 4-4-2 he can play high and with the ball at his feet.  He's awesome on the counter and can absolutely neutralize any player in the world (see how well Fabregas and Wilshere did today?).  Like Makelele, he's very unsung. 

The selling on of Jo and Santa Cruz is exactly their short term model.  These guys are billionaires remember, 18M£ is a drop in the bucket.  Like abramovich, they're going to waste money early on.  Its part of the getting up to speed quickly.  If you've watched football for more than the last five years, City were in real trouble a while ago, both footballing and financially.  They weren't going to get high end players immediately, so over paying is the only way to do it.  They will absolutely dial back the signings...they've already said they will. 

I'm not a City supporter for what its worth.

 

[keepie uppie]

Originally Posted by SinnerP

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by Oskar Kokoshka

Good ol' Mancini... parking the bus.

Loving the title race this year in England.

What race?

Man Utd havent even gotten out of 1st gear yet and comfortably sit atop of the table.

Man City spent all that money to be a boring, dysfunctional, defensive team. You best believe these bums are gonna drop more points along the way.

Arsenal are Arsenal

Chelsea are finished for this season.

Unless something drastic happens it looks like Man Utd are gonna run away with the title this season.

 Whatever.  There was a time early this season when some of us thought that Chelski would run away with the title, but look how things have changed.  But they can also easily go the other way at an instant.  That's the thing though, something drastic will always likely happen.  

trying to jinx Utd,Carlos Tevez? 

plus,we've got Liverpool this weekend...as crappy as they've been all season,they always seem to raise their game against Utd...

 

[keepie uppie]

Originally Posted by SinnerP

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by Oskar Kokoshka

Good ol' Mancini... parking the bus.

Loving the title race this year in England.

What race?

Man Utd havent even gotten out of 1st gear yet and comfortably sit atop of the table.

Man City spent all that money to be a boring, dysfunctional, defensive team. You best believe these bums are gonna drop more points along the way.

Arsenal are Arsenal

Chelsea are finished for this season.

Unless something drastic happens it looks like Man Utd are gonna run away with the title this season.

 Whatever.  There was a time early this season when some of us thought that Chelski would run away with the title, but look how things have changed.  But they can also easily go the other way at an instant.  That's the thing though, something drastic will always likely happen.  

trying to jinx Utd,Carlos Tevez? 

plus,we've got Liverpool this weekend...as crappy as they've been all season,they always seem to raise their game against Utd...

 

[forwardlean]

Originally Posted by ChampCruThik

^ Good points, City's lack of a creative midfielder forces Yaya Toure into a more offensive role and he's been quite successful much like how Arsenal is utilizing Song deeper up the pitch. Just look at the stats - 3 goals in 18 league appearances this year compared to 4 total goals in 74 La Liga appearances for Barca. For all the world-class strikers Man City is adding, they could really use a creative midfielder type such as Iniesta. I think it would do wonders for the flow of their offensive attack and would also help get critics off Mancini's back about playing too conservative. 
I know plenty of soccer fans that share the sentiment about City's current spending and Chelsea's former spending. I don't have a problem with their big summer signings or their conservative defensive minded Italian approach under Mancini. Often times it's the wise approach to play on the cautious side against Arsenal and Manchester United for draws with De Jong/Barry/Yaya Toure disciplined and organized directly in front of their back 4 much of the game. I have a problem with their one goal defeats to Sunderland, Wolverhampton, and particularly Everton. The Everton match was home Anichebe sent off on the hour should have prompted a more aggressive attack from City to equalize and potentially take the lead in front of their home crowd. That was truly a wasteful display and a terrible way to leave 3 points on the pitch when your club has major aspirations for a domestic league title. 

It seems Adebayor is headed to Madrid on a loan and his recent physical altercation with Kolo Toure certainly doesn't help his future at Eastlands. Super Mario is inevitably destined for Milan, it's clearly his ultimate desire and will happen sooner than later. Despite the recent negative actions of captain Carlos Tevez, he's a player that I feel City cannot do without. He's the face of the club and their best player. Only 26 years old Tevez would be tough to replace. We'll see if he remains content at Eastlands. 

Only point I disagree with is Jo's start today. Even with injuries to Balotelli and Silva, Adam Johnson should be the choice.  

Yeah fair enough.  Given its Mancini, I don't think there is any way he would have played a guy like Johnson out of position like that.  Plus, it wouldn't leave any real game breaker on the bench.  Mancini literally had no one to call on that wasn't a defender (SWP, Jo/Johnson, Pat Viera).  City essentially played the game with no real subs.  It may have made more sense to play a 4-5-1 with Viera in for Jo (giving Toure free reign) and then adjusting when/if needed.  Of course, the red card didn't help tactically even though it was later in the match. 

Carlos Tevez - Yeah you can't really deny the value of playing in spain.  As soft as it is, its a brilliant place to properly learn the game.  England is coming around though, unfortunately for the national team, English managers are still playing kick and chase.  City will likely take a look at Chelsea's current situation.  Personally, I think its a bit of a perfect storm.  Like the beginning of the season, they're just hitting a really bad bit of luck.  Today for example, they could have tied it up were it not for the tip toe of the keeper...that save gets made one in a 100000 times.  They're creating chances, but not finishing.  I feel there is a real problem behind the scenes.  If you watch the body language and communication of the players its really telling.  None of them talk, and if you watch, certain players don't pass to each other. 

 

[forwardlean]

Originally Posted by ChampCruThik

^ Good points, City's lack of a creative midfielder forces Yaya Toure into a more offensive role and he's been quite successful much like how Arsenal is utilizing Song deeper up the pitch. Just look at the stats - 3 goals in 18 league appearances this year compared to 4 total goals in 74 La Liga appearances for Barca. For all the world-class strikers Man City is adding, they could really use a creative midfielder type such as Iniesta. I think it would do wonders for the flow of their offensive attack and would also help get critics off Mancini's back about playing too conservative. 
I know plenty of soccer fans that share the sentiment about City's current spending and Chelsea's former spending. I don't have a problem with their big summer signings or their conservative defensive minded Italian approach under Mancini. Often times it's the wise approach to play on the cautious side against Arsenal and Manchester United for draws with De Jong/Barry/Yaya Toure disciplined and organized directly in front of their back 4 much of the game. I have a problem with their one goal defeats to Sunderland, Wolverhampton, and particularly Everton. The Everton match was home Anichebe sent off on the hour should have prompted a more aggressive attack from City to equalize and potentially take the lead in front of their home crowd. That was truly a wasteful display and a terrible way to leave 3 points on the pitch when your club has major aspirations for a domestic league title. 

It seems Adebayor is headed to Madrid on a loan and his recent physical altercation with Kolo Toure certainly doesn't help his future at Eastlands. Super Mario is inevitably destined for Milan, it's clearly his ultimate desire and will happen sooner than later. Despite the recent negative actions of captain Carlos Tevez, he's a player that I feel City cannot do without. He's the face of the club and their best player. Only 26 years old Tevez would be tough to replace. We'll see if he remains content at Eastlands. 

Only point I disagree with is Jo's start today. Even with injuries to Balotelli and Silva, Adam Johnson should be the choice.  

Yeah fair enough.  Given its Mancini, I don't think there is any way he would have played a guy like Johnson out of position like that.  Plus, it wouldn't leave any real game breaker on the bench.  Mancini literally had no one to call on that wasn't a defender (SWP, Jo/Johnson, Pat Viera).  City essentially played the game with no real subs.  It may have made more sense to play a 4-5-1 with Viera in for Jo (giving Toure free reign) and then adjusting when/if needed.  Of course, the red card didn't help tactically even though it was later in the match. 

Carlos Tevez - Yeah you can't really deny the value of playing in spain.  As soft as it is, its a brilliant place to properly learn the game.  England is coming around though, unfortunately for the national team, English managers are still playing kick and chase.  City will likely take a look at Chelsea's current situation.  Personally, I think its a bit of a perfect storm.  Like the beginning of the season, they're just hitting a really bad bit of luck.  Today for example, they could have tied it up were it not for the tip toe of the keeper...that save gets made one in a 100000 times.  They're creating chances, but not finishing.  I feel there is a real problem behind the scenes.  If you watch the body language and communication of the players its really telling.  None of them talk, and if you watch, certain players don't pass to each other. 

 

[champcruthik]

Hoosiers, Nasri has been on fire as of late and he's obviously better going forward on the attack but he can't defend like Toure does on the pitch. I'm not saying Toure is definitively having a better season but he's certainly more "well-rounded" in comparison to Nasri. The Fabregas/Nasri connection is extremely fun to watch but by Cesc's standards this season hasn't quite met the level we've come to expect from the Spanish international.  
By the way Nasri is close to signing a long-term deal with the Gunners despite Barca's continued interest in the Frenchman. 

Van der Vaart has been a pleasant surprise for Spurs but injuries have plagued this year's campaign from being even better. As for Bale, I love the kid and he's maddening RBs across Europe with his pace but I find he struggles with something many young players suffer with - consistency. It's almost as if Bale is becoming overrated based on his performance against Inter in both legs of the CL group stage. 

I see your point and agree with City's influx of world-class strikers having a negative overall impact but let's keep in mind that Balotelli is most likely not a long-term option (Milan) and Adebayor is currently being shopped around Europe (Madrid). I've never been a big fan of Santa Cruz or Jo and I don't see either logging starts over Tevez or the Bosnian Bomber. You're right that Chelsea has recently dialed back the spending under Roman's ownership compared to past years, but what will the club do in this current transfer window and more importantly this summer considering recent struggles at Stamford Bridge plus aging forwards Drogba, Anelka, and Malouda. I'm not sure Kakuta and Sturridge can follow up their immense success. I think what has hurt Chelsea the most is: 1) Alex's injury leaving a hole at CB 2) Ferreira's garbage play at RB 3) Lack of chemistry in the midfield between Lampard, Essien, Mikel, Ramires, etc.  

Let me ask you, Yaya Toure isn't a world-class CM? Kolo isn't a world-class CB anymore? David Silva? Although I will admit Kolo Toure had a disappointing World Cup performance this past summer. Mancini IS NOT garbage, if you want to criticize him then attack the Italian for struggles on the European stage. All I'm saying is only 16 goals conceded to this point is impressive. As I said, draws against Manchester United and Arsenal is nothing to be ashamed of. It's the losses to Everton and Wolverhampton I take issue with. I second the notion that City should start investing more into scouting and youth development for long-term success. 

 

[champcruthik]

Hoosiers, Nasri has been on fire as of late and he's obviously better going forward on the attack but he can't defend like Toure does on the pitch. I'm not saying Toure is definitively having a better season but he's certainly more "well-rounded" in comparison to Nasri. The Fabregas/Nasri connection is extremely fun to watch but by Cesc's standards this season hasn't quite met the level we've come to expect from the Spanish international.  
By the way Nasri is close to signing a long-term deal with the Gunners despite Barca's continued interest in the Frenchman. 

Van der Vaart has been a pleasant surprise for Spurs but injuries have plagued this year's campaign from being even better. As for Bale, I love the kid and he's maddening RBs across Europe with his pace but I find he struggles with something many young players suffer with - consistency. It's almost as if Bale is becoming overrated based on his performance against Inter in both legs of the CL group stage. 

I see your point and agree with City's influx of world-class strikers having a negative overall impact but let's keep in mind that Balotelli is most likely not a long-term option (Milan) and Adebayor is currently being shopped around Europe (Madrid). I've never been a big fan of Santa Cruz or Jo and I don't see either logging starts over Tevez or the Bosnian Bomber. You're right that Chelsea has recently dialed back the spending under Roman's ownership compared to past years, but what will the club do in this current transfer window and more importantly this summer considering recent struggles at Stamford Bridge plus aging forwards Drogba, Anelka, and Malouda. I'm not sure Kakuta and Sturridge can follow up their immense success. I think what has hurt Chelsea the most is: 1) Alex's injury leaving a hole at CB 2) Ferreira's garbage play at RB 3) Lack of chemistry in the midfield between Lampard, Essien, Mikel, Ramires, etc.  

Let me ask you, Yaya Toure isn't a world-class CM? Kolo isn't a world-class CB anymore? David Silva? Although I will admit Kolo Toure had a disappointing World Cup performance this past summer. Mancini IS NOT garbage, if you want to criticize him then attack the Italian for struggles on the European stage. All I'm saying is only 16 goals conceded to this point is impressive. As I said, draws against Manchester United and Arsenal is nothing to be ashamed of. It's the losses to Everton and Wolverhampton I take issue with. I second the notion that City should start investing more into scouting and youth development for long-term success. 

 

[carlos tevez]

Like Champ said, Yaya Toure is one of the best two-way CMs in the Premiership today. This is a guy that made his living prior to Man City playing defensive mid but he's performed at a very high level as a box-to-box mid for City. Kolo Toure definitely fell off hard around the start of 2008 but it seems like he's experiencing a resurgence this season. As for City getting a creative midfielder, I've read Pastore's name linked to them but I'd take that with a grain of salt. Signing a creative mid is probably high on their list of priorities and it'll probably happen in the summer.

As for City's excessive spending, believe it or not but I think they know what they're doing. They took over a mediocre club and their first goal was to qualify for the CL. Given how mediocre the squad was the club was forced to spend big money immediately to accomplish their goal. The problem was that not too many top level players were interested in joining a club that had no European fixtures so they were forced to overpay for "B-level" Premiership talent...many of whom the club is now trying to get rid of. Although they were unable to qualify for the CL last season they were still able to attract some better players such as Balotelli, Yaya Toure, Silva, etc etc and with the club on the verge of making the CL, they should be able to attract a few more excellent players very soon. Man City's also trying to stack up their side before UEFA's Fair Play regulations take into effect next season (basically all European clubs are not allowed to spend more money than they earn...teams that operate at a deficit wont be allowed to participate in the CL). I think the City side we see at the end of the summer will mark the 80-90% mark of their rebuilding process. They will definitely have to sell players like Adebayor, Santa Cruz, etc at a loss but I think they knew that was going to happen when they signed all these players.

England is coming around though, unfortunately for the national team, English managers are still playing kick and chase.
Many of the English clubs are playing kick and chase because the fact is most English players arent good enough and dont know any better. If England ever want a seriously competitive NT they're going to have to restructure their system from the grass roots level. Many of their players are taught to play this way from such a young age and it shows when you watch many Premiership teams. A large part of the Premiership's success in recent years is due to the influx of foreign talent, most of whom are better than their English counterparts.

As for Chelsea, just a ton of things have gone wrong for them. I know Carvalho asked for a transfer but letting go of him has proven to be a poor decision. Ferraira has been crap. They have no midfield chemistry. Their strikers get no service. They lack depth. I'm not gonna lie, I thought they'd win the league again this season and I'm shocked as to how poor they've been. I'm gonna enjoy watching their bandwagon fans disperse and start supporting the flavor of the month (City?) very soon

 

[carlos tevez]

Like Champ said, Yaya Toure is one of the best two-way CMs in the Premiership today. This is a guy that made his living prior to Man City playing defensive mid but he's performed at a very high level as a box-to-box mid for City. Kolo Toure definitely fell off hard around the start of 2008 but it seems like he's experiencing a resurgence this season. As for City getting a creative midfielder, I've read Pastore's name linked to them but I'd take that with a grain of salt. Signing a creative mid is probably high on their list of priorities and it'll probably happen in the summer.

As for City's excessive spending, believe it or not but I think they know what they're doing. They took over a mediocre club and their first goal was to qualify for the CL. Given how mediocre the squad was the club was forced to spend big money immediately to accomplish their goal. The problem was that not too many top level players were interested in joining a club that had no European fixtures so they were forced to overpay for "B-level" Premiership talent...many of whom the club is now trying to get rid of. Although they were unable to qualify for the CL last season they were still able to attract some better players such as Balotelli, Yaya Toure, Silva, etc etc and with the club on the verge of making the CL, they should be able to attract a few more excellent players very soon. Man City's also trying to stack up their side before UEFA's Fair Play regulations take into effect next season (basically all European clubs are not allowed to spend more money than they earn...teams that operate at a deficit wont be allowed to participate in the CL). I think the City side we see at the end of the summer will mark the 80-90% mark of their rebuilding process. They will definitely have to sell players like Adebayor, Santa Cruz, etc at a loss but I think they knew that was going to happen when they signed all these players.

England is coming around though, unfortunately for the national team, English managers are still playing kick and chase.
Many of the English clubs are playing kick and chase because the fact is most English players arent good enough and dont know any better. If England ever want a seriously competitive NT they're going to have to restructure their system from the grass roots level. Many of their players are taught to play this way from such a young age and it shows when you watch many Premiership teams. A large part of the Premiership's success in recent years is due to the influx of foreign talent, most of whom are better than their English counterparts.

As for Chelsea, just a ton of things have gone wrong for them. I know Carvalho asked for a transfer but letting go of him has proven to be a poor decision. Ferraira has been crap. They have no midfield chemistry. Their strikers get no service. They lack depth. I'm not gonna lie, I thought they'd win the league again this season and I'm shocked as to how poor they've been. I'm gonna enjoy watching their bandwagon fans disperse and start supporting the flavor of the month (City?) very soon

 

[hoosiers4life]

Yaya is very good, but no, i don't think he's one of the 5-10 best CM in the world. In all honesty he's not any better than Song, Darren Fletcher, or Essien at what they do. Song has been playing a similar role for Arsenal this year and he's done very well. Also no to Kolo, there are 5-10 defenders in the Premier League alone I'd take over him. There is certainly an argument to be made for Silva, I can accept that.

I don't know the extent of the Fair Play regulations, but if they include wages, City are in real trouble. I would guess they have most of the top 10-20 highest paid players in the league. For christ's sake, Wayne Bridge was the highest paid left back in the world, at least at the time he signed his contract. Their best youth player (Sturridge) left them for Chelsea. Kids won't want to sign there because they'll never get a game.

Mancini IS garbage. Championship caliber teams don't park the bus and pray for a point, unless you have a title lead you're protecting. Yeah, yeah, part of it is just me frustrated that Arsenal couldn't break through, but you aren't going to win titles with tactics like that. City were very lucky to escape, thanks to the woodwork and Joe Hart.

What's hurt Chelsea is the lack of youth that has come through the system. If you want to win without paying City money for a title, you have to have at least a couple world-class players that came from your academy. Roman won't put up 20 mil for each position now and the last graduate of the academy that has contributed for them was John Terry. now, they have a few guys who could change that, Sturridge, Kakuta and McEachran have potential.

Which is what's so maddening about supporting Arsenal. They have had the most youth talent in the last several years, and if Wenger would have put a few proven players around them, we'd have won multiple titles.

 

[hoosiers4life]

Yaya is very good, but no, i don't think he's one of the 5-10 best CM in the world. In all honesty he's not any better than Song, Darren Fletcher, or Essien at what they do. Song has been playing a similar role for Arsenal this year and he's done very well. Also no to Kolo, there are 5-10 defenders in the Premier League alone I'd take over him. There is certainly an argument to be made for Silva, I can accept that.

I don't know the extent of the Fair Play regulations, but if they include wages, City are in real trouble. I would guess they have most of the top 10-20 highest paid players in the league. For christ's sake, Wayne Bridge was the highest paid left back in the world, at least at the time he signed his contract. Their best youth player (Sturridge) left them for Chelsea. Kids won't want to sign there because they'll never get a game.

Mancini IS garbage. Championship caliber teams don't park the bus and pray for a point, unless you have a title lead you're protecting. Yeah, yeah, part of it is just me frustrated that Arsenal couldn't break through, but you aren't going to win titles with tactics like that. City were very lucky to escape, thanks to the woodwork and Joe Hart.

What's hurt Chelsea is the lack of youth that has come through the system. If you want to win without paying City money for a title, you have to have at least a couple world-class players that came from your academy. Roman won't put up 20 mil for each position now and the last graduate of the academy that has contributed for them was John Terry. now, they have a few guys who could change that, Sturridge, Kakuta and McEachran have potential.

Which is what's so maddening about supporting Arsenal. They have had the most youth talent in the last several years, and if Wenger would have put a few proven players around them, we'd have won multiple titles.

 

[carlos tevez]

I gotta disagree man. Yaya Toure is way better than Song and Fletcher. I dont know about Essien though. I'm not sure if Yaya is top 5-10 at his position in the world but he's certainly one of the top 5 in the Premiership. This season Fabregas hasnt lived up to his standards. Fabregas at 50% is still a beast but he hasnt been as good for us as he's been in previous years. I'd still take Fabregas over Yaya but as of right now Yaya has been City's best midfielder and Nasri's been our best midfielder. Fab's been too injured and inconsistent this season to be in the discussion for best Premiership midfielder of this season.

Kolo Toure might be in the top 5-10 CBs in the Premiership but it's so hard to judge this guy due to his recent inconsistency. Very good up until 2008, has 2-3 disappointing seasons in a row but has been much better this season.

I think the point of the new Fair Play regulations is to prevent clubs from making it rain in the transfer market. As long as City complete most of their shopping this summer they should be fine. Their wage bill shouldnt be an issue since they'll likely have little trouble covering that cost. It'd be spending 100+ million on transfers on top of your wage bill and other expenses that would put City in trouble...thats why they're fast tracking their spending now so they can "balance their books" by 2012. Since they likely wont be spending as much money after this summer they shouldnt have much trouble covering their costs and abiding by UEFA's new guidelines.

Being an Arsenal fan is beyond frustrating. The club's only big money transfer in recent years was Arshavin and he was brought in because the club were at risk of missing the CL. Since then we've built the squad up of players not good enough like Almunia, as well as cheap buys and youth players. I know we spent like 30 mill combined on Koscielny, Vermalen and Squillaci but the funds to buy those players were raised from selling players like Toure, Adebayor, Eduardo, etc. Yeah, the clubs financial model is amazing but dont go telling us that Wenger has money to spend only for the club to keep the money in their pockets year after year. Right now we could use another CB (Vermalen might be out for the season) as well as some cover for Song or Wilshere (Diaby + Denilson arent good enough) but chances are we're gonna fall short at the end of the season with the squad we have and Wenger will just bemoan injuries, bad luck, refereeing decisions and excessive spending by other clubs. I look at our team this season compared to the last 5 years and I see we have a deeper squad but some of our players arent good enough and the manager and the players lack the killer instinct and hunger to be champions.