Originally Posted by Nat Turner
It's good to see you contribute something to a thread, that does not involve what you think of you!Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
It's good to see Nat Turner arguing with someone else for a change. smh.
Originally Posted by Nat Turner
It's good to see you contribute something to a thread, that does not involve what you think of you!Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
It's good to see Nat Turner arguing with someone else for a change. smh.
Just because you don't want something to happen does not mean you're afraid of it happening.
Just because you don't want something to happen does not mean you're afraid of it happening.
If this was directed toward me, I would hardly call me not speaking about my spiritual beliefs and background on a particular internet message board as "living my entire life behind something I don't want to happen."
If this was directed toward me, I would hardly call me not speaking about my spiritual beliefs and background on a particular internet message board as "living my entire life behind something I don't want to happen."
Originally Posted by red mpls
If this was directed toward me, I would hardly call me not speaking about my spiritual beliefs and background on a particular internet message board as "living my entire life behind something I don't want to happen."
Originally Posted by red mpls
If this was directed toward me, I would hardly call me not speaking about my spiritual beliefs and background on a particular internet message board as "living my entire life behind something I don't want to happen."
Originally Posted by DT43
You're right, you know it all already.
What's the point of even opening up discussion, when our society has geniuses like lobotomybeats to break it down for us?
red mpls wrote:
Indeed.Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican
Well said man. I can agree with that. All of it.
No offense intended, but you assert the other 'extreme' of the "accident hypothesis", that this is all part of some grand scheme and that it must have been precisely calculated
Your argument holds true if you're blind to the "dark side". I'll give you one example of what I mean:
-The earth’s gravity, axial tilt, rotation period, magnetic field, crust thickness, oxygen/nitrogen ratio, carbon dioxide, water vapour and ozone levels are just right for life (found this on some creationist website)
Ok. Great. I agree completely. These conditions are so right for life that it's eerie, scary, spooky, and automatically point to a higher being.
There's one problem (or should I say 100s): the earth tries to kill us, other animals try to kill us, other people try to kill us, our food tries to kills us, and the universe tries to kill us. I'm not gonna rehash the earlier vid I posted, but if you put it all into perspective, it's not so magical after all... How we're alive after surviving all of that is simple: we adapt.
Is it too far outside of the realm of possiblity to suggest that we adapted, as a consequence of our environment? The earth is 4 billion years old. The genus +@@! is ~2.5 million years old. I think it's safe to say the earth came first. Then, instead of using a top-down, cherrypicking, it makes sense why it's all 'perfect' for us: because we are adapted to it, not the other way around.
This 'owner' you refer to must be as sick and twisted as he is 'creative' if he thinks dying children, starvation, tsunamis, hurricanes, disease, etc. has a place on this wonderful planet of ours. All of this, to me, shows that this planet is not made for us, and that we are not simply put on this planet because of the will of some supernatural being. We are here because we have become adapted to the planet. Diseases, birth defects, etc. show me that we are still ' a work in progress'.
Some perspective: Out of 1 septillion (1000000000000000000000000) stars in the universe, we are the special ones who got blessed with life?
Most Common Elements in the universe:
1. Hydrogen
2. Helium (chemically inert)
3. Oxygen
4. Carbon
5. Other
Our cells our mostly water (hydrogen and oxygen) and our chemistry is based on carbon, (the chemical basis for all life on earth, because it is so reactive). Given these ingredients (which are everywhere in the universe), life like ours could be inevitable given the right conditions. With that many zeros, I feel confident in saying: if life happened here, it can happen anywhere. When I put all this together, I don't see a plan, or a guiding force behind it all. Call it what you will, but you guys say "accident" like one day we just happened to be here. It took billions of years for us to get here.
How did all of this come into being? I dunno. Some things just don't have an answer yet. I'm perfectly fine with that. If you think that you have some answers that I don't, please inform me on how to obtain them.
edit: YUKU
Originally Posted by DT43
You're right, you know it all already.
What's the point of even opening up discussion, when our society has geniuses like lobotomybeats to break it down for us?
red mpls wrote:
Indeed.Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican
Well said man. I can agree with that. All of it.
No offense intended, but you assert the other 'extreme' of the "accident hypothesis", that this is all part of some grand scheme and that it must have been precisely calculated
Your argument holds true if you're blind to the "dark side". I'll give you one example of what I mean:
-The earth’s gravity, axial tilt, rotation period, magnetic field, crust thickness, oxygen/nitrogen ratio, carbon dioxide, water vapour and ozone levels are just right for life (found this on some creationist website)
Ok. Great. I agree completely. These conditions are so right for life that it's eerie, scary, spooky, and automatically point to a higher being.
There's one problem (or should I say 100s): the earth tries to kill us, other animals try to kill us, other people try to kill us, our food tries to kills us, and the universe tries to kill us. I'm not gonna rehash the earlier vid I posted, but if you put it all into perspective, it's not so magical after all... How we're alive after surviving all of that is simple: we adapt.
Is it too far outside of the realm of possiblity to suggest that we adapted, as a consequence of our environment? The earth is 4 billion years old. The genus +@@! is ~2.5 million years old. I think it's safe to say the earth came first. Then, instead of using a top-down, cherrypicking, it makes sense why it's all 'perfect' for us: because we are adapted to it, not the other way around.
This 'owner' you refer to must be as sick and twisted as he is 'creative' if he thinks dying children, starvation, tsunamis, hurricanes, disease, etc. has a place on this wonderful planet of ours. All of this, to me, shows that this planet is not made for us, and that we are not simply put on this planet because of the will of some supernatural being. We are here because we have become adapted to the planet. Diseases, birth defects, etc. show me that we are still ' a work in progress'.
Some perspective: Out of 1 septillion (1000000000000000000000000) stars in the universe, we are the special ones who got blessed with life?
Most Common Elements in the universe:
1. Hydrogen
2. Helium (chemically inert)
3. Oxygen
4. Carbon
5. Other
Our cells our mostly water (hydrogen and oxygen) and our chemistry is based on carbon, (the chemical basis for all life on earth, because it is so reactive). Given these ingredients (which are everywhere in the universe), life like ours could be inevitable given the right conditions. With that many zeros, I feel confident in saying: if life happened here, it can happen anywhere. When I put all this together, I don't see a plan, or a guiding force behind it all. Call it what you will, but you guys say "accident" like one day we just happened to be here. It took billions of years for us to get here.
How did all of this come into being? I dunno. Some things just don't have an answer yet. I'm perfectly fine with that. If you think that you have some answers that I don't, please inform me on how to obtain them.
edit: YUKU
Denials? What the hell am I denying? My initial comment was intended to illicit SELF-REFLECTION which it seems like some of you refuse to do or are simply incapable of. Acting like a martyr? Talk about hyperboleOriginally Posted by red mpls
Of course the level or degree is different, once again, I never stated or argued otherwise. I'm not really sure why you insist on restating this. However, it is indeed hypocritical because the same things that you blast religious people for are the same things that you all are doing on this board... telling other people that their beliefs are "wrong," insulting others' beliefs, constantly "pushing" your beliefs on others, obsessing over the existence (or non-existence) of a higher being, etc.
I have nothing? No matter how well written your denials are, you still chose to click onto a thread that is about Einstein's beliefs, then whining about the content. It is about choice, and your initial comment was intended to illicit confrontation with those who do not agree with you and your hidden agenda. From that initial comment, you are making it seem as if those of us who voice our opinions against religious dogma, is as being in some sort of extremist position. Churches all around the world are having big problems these days, due to many realizing the real hypocrisy, not the one you are attempting to point out here on a damned message board, with you acting as if you are some sort of martyr. Many young people are rejecting the notion of some "god", especially the one that represents the Catholic church, which happens to have a real mess on its hands. Since what you are reading is from and by, many young people, you are witnessing the repercussions of all of the lies, pain and suffering that religion and its churches have perpetuated for centuries.Originally Posted by Nat Turner
It's painfully apparent that you have nothing... at all. You posted me initial response to the thread to prove... nothing... only to reinforce what I just stated in my previous post. My original point was not that having a lot of threads questioning, bashing, etc. religion was so bothersome in and of itself. My point was that the same people constantly bashing religion and the concept of a higher being in these threads are the same ones who complain about religious people forcing their beliefs on them and bashing their beliefs. If you can't see the hypocrisy and irony there... well, I guess I really don't expect you to be able to at this point.
None of which has anything to do with threads about curvaceous and scantily-clad women.
So you wanna call those of us who are opposed to all the nonsense "hypocrites", just because we are voicing our opinions?
Sounds like you have an agenda. Why don't you just simply man up, then state what your position actually is?
What is your religious background? What is it that you believe in? Be clear! Don't be afraid! State your position, then why you are so opposed to our freedom to choose and speak out as we can.
Denials? What the hell am I denying? My initial comment was intended to illicit SELF-REFLECTION which it seems like some of you refuse to do or are simply incapable of. Acting like a martyr? Talk about hyperboleOriginally Posted by red mpls
Of course the level or degree is different, once again, I never stated or argued otherwise. I'm not really sure why you insist on restating this. However, it is indeed hypocritical because the same things that you blast religious people for are the same things that you all are doing on this board... telling other people that their beliefs are "wrong," insulting others' beliefs, constantly "pushing" your beliefs on others, obsessing over the existence (or non-existence) of a higher being, etc.
I have nothing? No matter how well written your denials are, you still chose to click onto a thread that is about Einstein's beliefs, then whining about the content. It is about choice, and your initial comment was intended to illicit confrontation with those who do not agree with you and your hidden agenda. From that initial comment, you are making it seem as if those of us who voice our opinions against religious dogma, is as being in some sort of extremist position. Churches all around the world are having big problems these days, due to many realizing the real hypocrisy, not the one you are attempting to point out here on a damned message board, with you acting as if you are some sort of martyr. Many young people are rejecting the notion of some "god", especially the one that represents the Catholic church, which happens to have a real mess on its hands. Since what you are reading is from and by, many young people, you are witnessing the repercussions of all of the lies, pain and suffering that religion and its churches have perpetuated for centuries.Originally Posted by Nat Turner
It's painfully apparent that you have nothing... at all. You posted me initial response to the thread to prove... nothing... only to reinforce what I just stated in my previous post. My original point was not that having a lot of threads questioning, bashing, etc. religion was so bothersome in and of itself. My point was that the same people constantly bashing religion and the concept of a higher being in these threads are the same ones who complain about religious people forcing their beliefs on them and bashing their beliefs. If you can't see the hypocrisy and irony there... well, I guess I really don't expect you to be able to at this point.
None of which has anything to do with threads about curvaceous and scantily-clad women.
So you wanna call those of us who are opposed to all the nonsense "hypocrites", just because we are voicing our opinions?
Sounds like you have an agenda. Why don't you just simply man up, then state what your position actually is?
What is your religious background? What is it that you believe in? Be clear! Don't be afraid! State your position, then why you are so opposed to our freedom to choose and speak out as we can.
I'm suggesting that you (and others) are being hypocritical for the reason you underlined as well as a number of other reasons, many of which I also stated in my last post in response to Its That Dude:Originally Posted by Nat Turner
Originally Posted by red mpls
Denials? What the hell am I denying? My initial comment was intended to illicit SELF-REFLECTION which it seems like some of you refuse to do or are simply incapable of. Acting like a martyr? Talk about hyperbole.
I never argued that the organized religions of the world do not act hypocritically. I agree with you that they do. I never said it was hypocritical for anyone to state their beliefs or voice their opinions. I said that the way that you, OP, Lobotomy Beats, etc. often do so is hypocritical for the reasons outlined above in this post, my initial response, and my other posts in this thread.
Of course I have an "agenda." Everyone does... even if that "agenda" is that they are just curious and interested in learning different perspectives, beliefs, etc. My "position" is one of learning and reflection and the encouragement of learning and reflection among others.
My own personal beliefs and religious and spiritual background I don't often speak on (on the internet) because it only serves as a way for others to "pigeonhole" me... it has nothing to do with "fear." The same way you and others criticize religion (rightfully so) for so often dividing instead of uniting, will be the way such information will be used "against" me as I see happen so often on this board. The truth is the truth, no matter who speaks it.
I'm not opposed to your freedom to speak out as you see fit. I just think that the way you and some others so often go about doing so does not encourage real dialogue and is ultimately not very useful. However, it is obviously up to everyone how they choose to communicate.
I am only going to address this point, as it seems that this is why you've suggested that I am being hypocritical, in my vehement responses toward those who claim that I am going to "hell", for not believing in the boogey man.
Unity cannot happen with those who demand that you see things their way, especially when dealing with something as sensitive as a persons so called faith, It is closely link to emotions, which in turn throws logic and reason out of the window. They say "god exists", I say I want proof. They say have "faith", I ask why? They say without faith, I will not "understand". In that, there is no logic, no reason.
Pimps use the same tactic while recruiting %%#*%%. It is a way of brainwashing, getting someone throw away common sense, then putting their "faith" in something other than themselves. The first right of every human being is self preservation. As soon as someone relinquishes that right, they are then controlled by whomever, or whatever is calling the shots. For pimps, drugs or alcohol is introduced, as that will be the carrot at the end of the stick. For the church and their pastors and preachers, it is the PIE IN THE SKY theory, which is nothing but a con. Live your life for those greater than yourself, then you are going to go to heaven. For the *@@++, "heaven" is making her pimp happy.
So as soon as someone, like those on this very thread suggests, "why can't you see it the other way?"
Well, it is because that way is filled with false promises, that's why.
I am all for humanity, as this is where I share my connection with the human family. However, when someone comes at me with their religion first instead of their humanity, this is where we are going to have a problem, as I can smell the con coming a mile away.
Now on the flip side, I can understand why some people feel the need to believe in a higher power. It is tough out here, right?
But then again, it lends a whole lot of creedence to what Brother Einstien has written, doesn't it?
Of course it's your right to believe whatever you want and I have no problem with your beliefs... Actually I respect them more than a lot of other peoples' because it seems you put some critical thinking into them... However, I do think that you often fail to recognize that belief in organized religion and the potential existence of a higher being are not one and the same (although you obviously don't need my "approval" for your beliefs, and I digress)
I'm suggesting that you (and others) are being hypocritical for the reason you underlined as well as a number of other reasons, many of which I also stated in my last post in response to Its That Dude:Originally Posted by Nat Turner
Originally Posted by red mpls
Denials? What the hell am I denying? My initial comment was intended to illicit SELF-REFLECTION which it seems like some of you refuse to do or are simply incapable of. Acting like a martyr? Talk about hyperbole.
I never argued that the organized religions of the world do not act hypocritically. I agree with you that they do. I never said it was hypocritical for anyone to state their beliefs or voice their opinions. I said that the way that you, OP, Lobotomy Beats, etc. often do so is hypocritical for the reasons outlined above in this post, my initial response, and my other posts in this thread.
Of course I have an "agenda." Everyone does... even if that "agenda" is that they are just curious and interested in learning different perspectives, beliefs, etc. My "position" is one of learning and reflection and the encouragement of learning and reflection among others.
My own personal beliefs and religious and spiritual background I don't often speak on (on the internet) because it only serves as a way for others to "pigeonhole" me... it has nothing to do with "fear." The same way you and others criticize religion (rightfully so) for so often dividing instead of uniting, will be the way such information will be used "against" me as I see happen so often on this board. The truth is the truth, no matter who speaks it.
I'm not opposed to your freedom to speak out as you see fit. I just think that the way you and some others so often go about doing so does not encourage real dialogue and is ultimately not very useful. However, it is obviously up to everyone how they choose to communicate.
I am only going to address this point, as it seems that this is why you've suggested that I am being hypocritical, in my vehement responses toward those who claim that I am going to "hell", for not believing in the boogey man.
Unity cannot happen with those who demand that you see things their way, especially when dealing with something as sensitive as a persons so called faith, It is closely link to emotions, which in turn throws logic and reason out of the window. They say "god exists", I say I want proof. They say have "faith", I ask why? They say without faith, I will not "understand". In that, there is no logic, no reason.
Pimps use the same tactic while recruiting %%#*%%. It is a way of brainwashing, getting someone throw away common sense, then putting their "faith" in something other than themselves. The first right of every human being is self preservation. As soon as someone relinquishes that right, they are then controlled by whomever, or whatever is calling the shots. For pimps, drugs or alcohol is introduced, as that will be the carrot at the end of the stick. For the church and their pastors and preachers, it is the PIE IN THE SKY theory, which is nothing but a con. Live your life for those greater than yourself, then you are going to go to heaven. For the *@@++, "heaven" is making her pimp happy.
So as soon as someone, like those on this very thread suggests, "why can't you see it the other way?"
Well, it is because that way is filled with false promises, that's why.
I am all for humanity, as this is where I share my connection with the human family. However, when someone comes at me with their religion first instead of their humanity, this is where we are going to have a problem, as I can smell the con coming a mile away.
Now on the flip side, I can understand why some people feel the need to believe in a higher power. It is tough out here, right?
But then again, it lends a whole lot of creedence to what Brother Einstien has written, doesn't it?
Of course it's your right to believe whatever you want and I have no problem with your beliefs... Actually I respect them more than a lot of other peoples' because it seems you put some critical thinking into them... However, I do think that you often fail to recognize that belief in organized religion and the potential existence of a higher being are not one and the same (although you obviously don't need my "approval" for your beliefs, and I digress)
Originally Posted by red mpls
I'm suggesting that you (and others) are being hypocritical for the reason you underlined as well as a number of other reasons, many of which I also stated in my last post in response to Its That Dude:Originally Posted by Nat Turner
Originally Posted by red mpls
Denials? What the hell am I denying? My initial comment was intended to illicit SELF-REFLECTION which it seems like some of you refuse to do or are simply incapable of. Acting like a martyr? Talk about hyperbole.
I never argued that the organized religions of the world do not act hypocritically. I agree with you that they do. I never said it was hypocritical for anyone to state their beliefs or voice their opinions. I said that the way that you, OP, Lobotomy Beats, etc. often do so is hypocritical for the reasons outlined above in this post, my initial response, and my other posts in this thread.
Of course I have an "agenda." Everyone does... even if that "agenda" is that they are just curious and interested in learning different perspectives, beliefs, etc. My "position" is one of learning and reflection and the encouragement of learning and reflection among others.
My own personal beliefs and religious and spiritual background I don't often speak on (on the internet) because it only serves as a way for others to "pigeonhole" me... it has nothing to do with "fear." The same way you and others criticize religion (rightfully so) for so often dividing instead of uniting, will be the way such information will be used "against" me as I see happen so often on this board. The truth is the truth, no matter who speaks it.
I'm not opposed to your freedom to speak out as you see fit. I just think that the way you and some others so often go about doing so does not encourage real dialogue and is ultimately not very useful. However, it is obviously up to everyone how they choose to communicate.
I am only going to address this point, as it seems that this is why you've suggested that I am being hypocritical, in my vehement responses toward those who claim that I am going to "hell", for not believing in the boogey man.
Unity cannot happen with those who demand that you see things their way, especially when dealing with something as sensitive as a persons so called faith, It is closely link to emotions, which in turn throws logic and reason out of the window. They say "god exists", I say I want proof. They say have "faith", I ask why? They say without faith, I will not "understand". In that, there is no logic, no reason.
Pimps use the same tactic while recruiting %%#*%%. It is a way of brainwashing, getting someone throw away common sense, then putting their "faith" in something other than themselves. The first right of every human being is self preservation. As soon as someone relinquishes that right, they are then controlled by whomever, or whatever is calling the shots. For pimps, drugs or alcohol is introduced, as that will be the carrot at the end of the stick. For the church and their pastors and preachers, it is the PIE IN THE SKY theory, which is nothing but a con. Live your life for those greater than yourself, then you are going to go to heaven. For the *@@++, "heaven" is making her pimp happy.
So as soon as someone, like those on this very thread suggests, "why can't you see it the other way?"
Well, it is because that way is filled with false promises, that's why.
I am all for humanity, as this is where I share my connection with the human family. However, when someone comes at me with their religion first instead of their humanity, this is where we are going to have a problem, as I can smell the con coming a mile away.
Now on the flip side, I can understand why some people feel the need to believe in a higher power. It is tough out here, right?
But then again, it lends a whole lot of creedence to what Brother Einstien has written, doesn't it?
Of course it's your right to believe whatever you want and I have no problem with your beliefs... Actually I respect them more than a lot of other peoples' because it seems you put some critical thinking into them... However, I do think that you often fail to recognize that belief in organized religion and the potential existence of a higher being are not one and the same (although you obviously don't need my "approval" for your beliefs, and I digress)
If you want to use a similar approach to the issues that those you so vehemently disagree with use, then that's your business....
