**WASHINGTON WIZARDS 2012 Off-Season Thread ** Welcome to DC, Bradley Beal!!

[DCAllAfrican]

Man there was like 5000 people at the Hornets/Wiz game. I have never seen that many open seats on a NBA Telecast.

 

[dior paint]

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by Method Man

i wouldn't actually say Nene is "injury prone", he's played 70+ games the last 3 seasons while putting up nice numbers. yes, he has missed a lot of games in his career.. but remember now, that was because of his battle with cancer, not injuries sustained through basketball. you're absolutely right that his age is a problem, the Wizards will simply not get their money's worth out of him for at least 2 years of that contract. but what can you do? there are franchises who are able to squeeze the most out of every deal, but right now the Wizards simply aren't capable of doing that.

as far as EG goes, this is noooooowhere near the Arenas contract, the 5th pick fiasco with Minnesota, the Vesely pick, etc etc. this is nowhere near his best work, i'd say he actually showed some level of competence in this deal.

You have to ask yourself why Denver was so eager to let Nene go not even three months after signing him to a five year deal.  They've been watching the same game film we have.  They know McGee wants $14 million per year for leading the league in bloopers.  Do you really think they said to themselves, "this kid McGee's gonna be an All Star!  I don't care WHO we have to give up!"?  No, Denver just wanted to dump Nene's contract.  
Speaking of "basketball IQ," which GM do you trust more on this one?  Ujiri, whose last two major trades ruined the Knicks and Blazers, respectively, or Ernie Grunfeld, who, as has been noted:

• drafted all these knuckleheads to begin with
• traded the #5 pick in the 2009 draft for magic beans
• used the #6 pick in the 2011 draft on a magic beanpole
• sent two starters (including one former All Star) to Dallas for JOSH HOWARD
• sent one former All Star to Cleveland for ZYDRUNAS ILGAUSKUS
• signed Gilbert Arenas for ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS

Clearly, Ujiri knew something Portland didn't about Raymond Felton.  They also knew about Carmelo Anthony what Knicks fans are finding out the hard way.  I'm not saying he's the world's greatest GM, because he's made his share of mistakes already, but, as we've discussed, it doesn't take much to outmaneuver Ernie Grunfeld.  

There's a reason Denver made this trade - and I seriously doubt it's because they LOVED what they saw from JaVale this season.  I don't even know how serious the Nuggets are about re-signing him this summer.  I mean, you're gonna take a guy with a history of respiratory problems, who's literally gasping for air after 5 minutes of exertion, and send him to DENVER?  It's hard to see that working out.  Their primary motivation in all of this seems clear.  By all accounts, they were hit hard by buyer's remorse. 

In recent months, Nene's had knee problems, calf problems, heel problems...  given his frame and the way he plays, you can't like the chances of his knees holding up long term.  Think about how hard it's been for the Knicks to find a greater fool willing to take Amar'e off their hands.  Granted, there's a big difference between $13 million and $18 million, but the same basic principle applies.  The price is too high.  Guys like Amar'e, Boozer, David Lee, etc. have "name value" and still put up respectable numbers, but nobody wants their contracts.  Nene is now in that same category.  

The luxury tax penalty is harsher than ever.  You literally can't afford to sign good players to bad deals.  

This has all the characteristics of a classic Isiah Thomas trade.  Win on talent, lose on salary, land the marquee name, and mortgage the future. 

Personally, I don't think the drop off in production from Nene to a third-tier center is so great that it justifies the price differential.  He's solid, but not dominant.  He won't command double teams.  He won't shut down Dwight Howard.  He won't make star players think twice about driving the lane.  Is he a nice player to have on your team?  Yes.  And, in the short run, there's no question that he makes the Wizards better.  They'll be far more tolerable, if less "entertaining," to watch for the rest of the year, and they'll be more competitive next year.  

But a few years from now, when John Wall's rookie deal is running out, I doubt we'll be so enthusiastic about paying a 33 year-old Nene $13 million.  And that, realistically, marks the best-case beginning of this team's "window" to begin with.  If we're VERY lucky they might sniff the playoffs in 2013, but, given our draft history, that seems like a real long shot. 

Traditionally, GM's have operated under the assumption that the salary cap will always increase - which is the same sort of logic that drove the housing bubble.  In today's NBA, you have to be prepared for slow growth and even no-growth scenarios, especially as the league attempts to recover from the lockout.  

Right now, I'm just hoping Nene fails the physical and the Wiz get a reprieve.  With our luck, I wouldn't bet on it. 

interesting that you brought up the ping-pong balls, because i just checked the standings and we are, in all likelihood a lock, for a bottom 3 finish trade or no trade. so that is encouraging as well.

We could've said the same last year.  We all saw how that turned out...

Five games may seem 'insurmountable' now, but some of these teams may be primed for a free fall.  In any event, we don't even know what position our #1 pick will play at the moment.  I'm still of the belief that if you were absolutely convinced that Nene was your guy, he'd still be there for the taking next season, and if you're convinced that McGee is NOT your guy, you still had sign and trade opportunities this summer AFTER the draft.  

If you were to make a move now, it should've been for a pick THIS YEAR.  Anything else could've been done later, in a moment of sobriety rather than panic.

but Meth, it wasn't all about the money for Denver. The Nuggets FO was able to make the trade because of the stellar play of Faried. if Faried doesn't come out and beast, Denver is likely still stuck with Nene's contract (and their random assortment of mediocre big men). cap space moves and financial decisions don't just occur in a vacuum, they are predicated on the product you are putting out on the court. 
that ties back to what i was saying about the Wizards not being able to get the most out of a deal right now. for example, Grunfeld drafted Vesely AND Singleton over Faried. when you consistently fail that badly in talent acquisition, you end up with a situation where you have a mediocre roster and will have to overpay for talent no matter who you get. if we had drafted Faried would McGee be running his mouth asking for $14million? hell no.. at this point, who are the other big men out there we could realistically obtain within 2-3 years who wouldn't cripple our cap space?  

the Wizards have basically been in tank mode for 3 seasons now.. for how long will we keep the tank rolling? these things matter because they affect the perception of the team to potential FAs (and to your own franchise player). right now DC is seen as a cesspool, and no matter how you cut it we will get screwed out of any deal simply because we are an undesirable destination. at what point do you decide to stop being the laughingstock of the league and send a message that you are serious about winning? 

Meth, i would like to know your thoughts on how the Wizards should go about the rebuild. it seems you think we should continue the tank for now while clearing a ton of cap space, hoping for some high draft picks, and trying to attract top FAs in a few years? it seems to be the way to go these days.. but when you look at teams like the Knicks, it hasn't done much for them.

 

[rnmswag]

i dont understand how wall, jan and nene dont get as many minutes as possible EVERY game going forward

we have to see what this vesely dude has and get him accustomed to the NBA

we need to show Wall that there is a future in DC and that we are one monster draft pick away from playoff contention

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I was talking to somebody about Nick and McGee and Blatche being expected to do so much while here. People have to remember that these dudes were all later first round draft picks. If anything they have honestly over-achieved from what should be expected from them. People were saying that McGee should be doing this and that but why do you feel that way? Because he can jump and run? They are all role players. Most people in this league are role players so we should think about what we are expecting from these young players and stop being so quick to label them as busts when they shouldn't have high labels in the first place.

Nick can score yes, but nothing else.
Blatche is a versatile player but is isn't going to be the Top 3 player on a REAL team.
McGee shouldn't be starting on any team at this point.

We should just chill out with the expectations for these dudes.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I was talking to somebody about Nick and McGee and Blatche being expected to do so much while here. People have to remember that these dudes were all later first round draft picks. If anything they have honestly over-achieved from what should be expected from them. People were saying that McGee should be doing this and that but why do you feel that way? Because he can jump and run? They are all role players. Most people in this league are role players so we should think about what we are expecting from these young players and stop being so quick to label them as busts when they shouldn't have high labels in the first place.

Nick can score yes, but nothing else.
Blatche is a versatile player but is isn't going to be the Top 3 player on a REAL team.
McGee shouldn't be starting on any team at this point.

We should just chill out with the expectations for these dudes.

It's minutia, but I don't really consider Nick/Javale "late" 1st round picks.  Both guys were a few picks off of being in the lottery.  Blatche went in the late 2nd tho. 

Anyways, the problem is with these three knuckleheads, is their maturity.  NO ONE would bat an eye if they put up the #'s that they did but represented themselves as professionals, rather than fools. 

Take away the sideshow antics, and you'd be THRILLED with having a role player on your team who puts up 11/8/2 like Javale...having a scoring guard like Nick Young who could explode for 20+ on any night, or having a versatile big like Blatche. 

You can look at a guy like Trevor Booker who is constantly praised for his work-ethic and demeanor.  He only puts up 9/6, but people couldn't be happier and view him as someone who does have a bright future in DC. 

I heard someone on the radio say, if you gave Javale McGee, Trevor booker's heart and brain, you'd have a damn monster on the team.  That rings so true.  Again, it all boils down to their overall attitudes.  These picks would have been seen as great had Ernie done his due diligence and made note of their red-flags. 

My .02

 

[al3xis]

 @ calling up Eddie Ubiles. 

 

[doublejs07]

Forget Nene for a second...I'm now wondering if the McGee trade went down partly because of Seraphin's development?

 

[dt43]

^i don't know if it was a direct cause-effect, but Seraphin's performance recently has definitely been a pleasant surprise. two years later the Wall/Booker/Seraphin draft class doesn't look half bad.

i know we're still not a great team, but these Wizards look far more competent since the trade. you can really see how the IQ of our team tripled once we targeted two of the bad apples. the only dead weight left on the roster at this point is Blatche (just a terrible, terrible excuse for an NBA player). once he is amnestied and we buy out Lewis we will have a solid group of tough, young guys to build around.

 

[doublejs07]

Nene w. 22/10.

It's hard to fathom how dumb Javale actually was when watching Nene play tonight. STARK contrast.

Good win...let's see how they do tomorrow.

 

[chrispcb15]

Very great win tonight.....Nene with a great Debut...you could the hustle that comes with NENE and it was contiguous....Booker, Singleton, Seraphin...the whole team was rebounding and having Mason to come in and make 3's is such a plus. This team looks completely different with Mcgee and Young out...they look like they actually know what they are doing out there. Lets see how they do tomorrow with indy

 

[joe cool23]

It was a much needed breath of fresh air.

 

[executive76]

Originally Posted by Chrispcb15

you could the hustle that comes with NENE and it was contiguous.

Nene is up and down with his play (see Game 1 of the playoffs last year) It even changes at times from quarter to quarter. 
He can beast but he's way too unselfish most of the time but I think Wall can force feed him the ball to where he won't have a choice but to step it up.

JaVale 15 & 7 and the game winning bucket

 

[dior paint]

They looked like an actual basketball team last night.

 

[doublejs07]

Wall's comment from last night

"It was fun," Wall said. "It takes a lot of pressure off the guards if you can give somebody the ball in the low post that can score and also pass. We had to get used to cutting because we know we might get the ball back. Before, we just cut nonchalantly because nine times out 10, you wasn’t getting the ball back."


[Steve Buckhantz] DAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRR [/Steve Buckhantz]

 

[Methodical Management]

I was talking to somebody about Nick and McGee and Blatche being expected to do so much while here. People have to remember that these dudes were all later first round draft picks. If anything they have honestly over-achieved from what should be expected from them. People were saying that McGee should be doing this and that but why do you feel that way? Because he can jump and run? They are all role players.

But they don't want to be paid like role players and they refuse to be played like role players. 

In that case, you'd damned well better play like an All Star.  These clowns don't deserve $8 million plus per season - let alone the $14 million JaVale's asking.  

The problem is, they THINK they're stars.  That's Washington's fault.  You put bad players on the floor out of necessity.  You put young players on the floor to get them experience.  However, you HAVE to yank them when they play selfish basketball.  Washington never did, which led to this me-first, individual stat line oriented culture that's produced all these horrific low-lights.  Of those three players, TWO intentionally missed shots to chase a triple double - and you know Nick would do it if he ever came close to getting 10 of anything other than points. 
 

but Meth, it wasn't all about the money for Denver. The Nuggets FO was able to make the trade because of the stellar play of Faried. if Faried doesn't come out and beast, Denver is likely still stuck with Nene's contract (and their random assortment of mediocre big men). cap space moves and financial decisions don't just occur in a vacuum, they are predicated on the product you are putting out on the court. 

So what happens if Washington falls backwards into a great player in this year's draft - and that player just so happens to be a big?  The Nuggets would've traded Nene to you next year for expiring contracts if they wanted him off the books that badly.  I'm sure they gave Grunfeld some used car salesperson line about how "uh oh, somebody else wants him, too, Ernie... you'd better hurry," but get real.  Another, better GM could come in for Ernie and make this move next season, if not for Nene than for someone comparable.  McGee wouldn't be involved, but, let's face it, he wasn't the real draw here for Denver anyway.  If he works out, they'll consider that a bonus - but they're playing him the way he should be played: as a 20 mpg energy guy, not a starter.  I doubt they'll fork over $14 million per to have him play that role.  

Only a true bottom-feeder will pay McGee $12-$14 million, and, if they do, you know they'll want him to start.   I'm glad we won't be the ones to make that mistake, but I'm still not convinced that taking back Nene at this salary is the right move.  Sports cars are a lot of fun for that first year, too, until you factor in the depreciation hit and the maintenance costs.

that ties back to what i was saying about the Wizards not being able to get the most out of a deal right now. for example, Grunfeld drafted Vesely AND Singleton over Faried. when you consistently fail that badly in talent acquisition, you end up with a situation where you have a mediocre roster and will have to overpay for talent no matter who you get. if we had drafted Faried would McGee be running his mouth asking for $14million? hell no.. at this point, who are the other big men out there we could realistically obtain within 2-3 years who wouldn't cripple our cap space?  

I don't see why Grunfeld being a terrible GM is supposed to excuse Grunfeld from being a terrible GM.  "He made terrible draft picks, so he had no choice but to handcuff the team to mediocrity via trade to clean up after himself."  I don't know about that.  

Meth, i would like to know your thoughts on how the Wizards should go about the rebuild. it seems you think we should continue the tank for now while clearing a ton of cap space, hoping for some high draft picks, and trying to attract top FAs in a few years? it seems to be the way to go these days.. but when you look at teams like the Knicks, it hasn't done much for them.

Personally, I think that if you look at the most successful teams in this league - especially those who haven't been in "destination cities" with a recruiting advantage - the common denominator during the salary cap era is that these teams were built by accumulating assets.  That means they draft according to the best available TALENT - not by "need" - and they let players go rather than overpay them.  They also have to figure out, realistically, what that team's window will be and plan accordingly.  If you're the Thunder, you don't go out and get Shaq - let alone for 30% of your cap space.  If you do get a guy on the downside, you make sure his deal ends reasonably soon so you don't get stuck.  That way, even if the production doesn't match the pay, the expiring contract still has trade value.  Every move should be made with foresight.  The problem is, most GMs aren't evaluated that way.  It's win now or get fired, so there's little penalty, relatively speaking, for high stakes gambles.  If it doesn't pay off, somebody else cleans up the mess.  That's a problem.  More bad trades are executed by GMs on the hot seat than by anyone else.  

If you look at the way great teams have been built, many of them have either stockpiled young assets, which they could then move for PROVEN talent, or they've had TRADEABLE contracts like Dallas.  You don't overpay for "potential" and you certainly don't lock yourself in to overpaying a guy when you'll only get production out of him for 2 of his four seasons.  

Nene had a great game against the Nets - but, one, that's the NETS and, two, it's game one - not game 201.  I just think they overpaid.  If he were two years younger, no problem, but at this stage of his career it's like playing hot potato.  Now we just have to hope that he remains productive throughout his contract, because we're pretty much committed at that position now.  We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the draft to find out whether or not the pieces fit. 

 

[dior paint]

Pathetic

 

[doublejs07]

This team is SO close to figuring out how to win. They are actually playing some good basketball (since the trade). Bottom line, Ernie (if he's still here) needs to hit a home run in both the draft and free agency.

 

[dior paint]

What the %+%# is this team's obsession with Cartier Martin?

 

[doublejs07]

I wish they would have given that roster spot to Othyus Jeffers.

 

[chrispcb15]

Originally Posted by DIOR PAINT

What the %+%# is this team's obsession with Cartier Martin?

Check out the stats for the win against Philly...that might answer your question

 

[dior paint]

Wall has gone back to looking like he did earlier in the year. I'm sure he's just ready to get the season over with at this point.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by DIOR PAINT

Wall has gone back to looking like he did earlier in the year. I'm sure he's just ready to get the season over with at this point.

yeah...it looks like he's mailed it in. 

  He's been really bad since the Nene trade....

I really hope to God this team secures a top-3 pick. 

  

 

[extraordinary swag]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by DIOR PAINT

Wall has gone back to looking like he did earlier in the year. I'm sure he's just ready to get the season over with at this point.

yeah...it looks like he's mailed it in. 

  He's been really bad since the Nene trade....

I really hope to God this team secures a top-3 pick. 

  

Yeah it's clear Wall doesn't care anymore he barely shoots, in all those close games we've been losing its like he's terrified to shoot and just passes it to Jordan Crawford cuz we KNOW he's never passed up a shot in his life. Pray to god we get a top 3 pick as well

 

[ryanbbn23]

We are all in agreement here that Jordan Crawford is just terrible right?  Or needs a veteran to smack him around for shooting so much.