lrrr
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how would someone that doesnt speak english be able to read the bumper sticker?
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English is not an easy language to learn
English, along with Spanish are actually two of the easiest languages to learn.
Originally Posted by eNPHAN
yeah, standard language ideologies + the stigma attached to "ebonics" is ultimately what did the campaign in Oakland in...Originally Posted by mytmouse76
the different approached to teaching kids who speak AAVE
that it was acknowledged and school systems were trying to help students who speak it since the 70s at least...
how the media kinda fueled the negative attitudes towards it...even Jerimiah Wrigts sermons were used in a classrooms...
def. something i'll probably keep looking into on my own just cuz there is so much i didn't even touch the surface on...
i figure, if they accept bi-lingual education as beneficial to the students, i don't see why dialect-centered lessons wouldn't do the same for others....
while i'm interested in the usual aspects of teaching native speakers of AAVE how to codeswitch between the "standard" dialect and their native dialect, i'm MUCH MORE interested in the language itself....(from the perspective of writing on it)
the amount i learned in that class still amazes me...
(this is interesting, ask a group of black people what language they speak, assuming you're in the US, it'll be 'english'. Ask them if they always speak "proper" english, and when they say "no", ask them "then what do you call the language you speak, since it isn't 'proper' english?" they'll respond something like "slang"...ask them if they speak "ebonics". it's interesting that people are more willing to say they speak slang than ebonics, when really, noone speaks a "slang" of english.....terms are slang, a fully-functioning language is a dialect. Standard Language Ideologies are most powerful, next to like racism, imo. People are so stuck on "proper" english, they dimishish their own unique dialect, calling it "slang" and being ashamed of it. Dialects give people identity, identity to their race, culture, region, friends, etc., and it's disgusting that standard language ideologies make a majority of people who speak self-conscious about their own dialect.)
Slow down there Jack. Who's "THEM" that you're referring to? If you're singling out Spanish speakers (which you are) thenyou're just making yourself sound like a bigot. Straight up. There's a lot of contempt in the words you just wrote. Protesting against someone'slack of English skills shouldn't be an excuse to express yourself in such a bigoted manner.Originally Posted by Forgot About Jae
DONT COME BACK INTO MY STORE UNTIL YOU LEARN SOME DAMN ENGLISH
No I don't "piki panich" and I am NOT your "primo" gtfomf with all that. I can't STAND them
Exactly. Although my grandfather is an exception to this....Originally Posted by HybridSoldier23
Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000
I think that people should learn English, but that bumper sticker is sorta tasteless.
QFT...
The thing is if these people can't speak English then they probably can't read/comprehend it that well either. Which makes the whole point of his bumper sticker useless, since his target audience wouldn't understand his point.
QFT.Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME
someone's lack of English skills are just as bad.Originally Posted by Forgot About Jae
DONT COME BACK INTO MY STORE UNTIL YOU LEARN SOME DAMN ENGLISH
No I don't "piki panich" and I am NOT your "primo" gtfomf with all that. I can't STAND them
People should learn the language of their host country to become part of the bigger audience
Two typos, plus your sentence structure is horrible. Guess you shouldn't be a citizen either. What is worse? A person who goes through theUnited States of America's education system (which I imagine rickybadman did or is currently completing) and cannotconjure a proper discourse regarding how they feel on the issue at hand, or a person who migrates to a new country (many/most of the time because of a want orneed to mitigate their situation) and cannot quickly adapt to the language/lifestyles/culture of their new society? The reason I say quickly is because mostof the immigrants who exhibit the type of language barriers and deficiencies are in most cases "fresh newcomers", people who have recently migratedto the USA. Once these immigrants adapt and are able to speak English they move on and become more unnoticed by the people who not so long ago complainedabout their English speaking deficiencies. The job which they left behind is quickly filled by a "fresh newcomer" who will struggle, just like theirpredecessor, to adapt to their new society. This cycle will continue and has continued for a long time.Originally Posted by rickybadman
Damn one typo and you guys are all over me.Originally Posted by E3LAL
got 'emOriginally Posted by tru2theegame
^^I think it's quite funny that you would judge those that cannot speak proper English, yet your English is horrible...Originally Posted by DuckTailsxaintxI
creates a communication barrier. what do you think.Originally Posted by 49ers650
What's the problem then?Originally Posted by rickybadman
All immigrants should learn to speak English. If you come to a country you can't except everyone else to change to make life easier on you. [color= rgb(0, 0, 0)]I actually[/color] would be in favor of making the official national language English. I know some people living in the U.S, gotten green cards and citizenship but yet can speak proper English.
Originally Posted by eNPHAN
this is my thing...
i've traveled to other countries...
Mexico doesn't accommodate English...if i'm in Ajijic, and i want an apple soda, i'm pretty much on my own......
i wouldn't imagine trying to do a complex transaction in mexico, knowing i don't speak spanish.....
if i can't point to it and hand money over for it, i wouldn't even ATTEMPT it...
meanwhile, 40 percent of stock in grocery stores is either half-spanish or FULL-spanish...
i think that's quite ridiculous.
When you can live and function in the United States and not even bother learning any English, i take offense...
i take offense that when i call U.S. T mobile, i'm asked if i want to speak Spanish before I'm even greeted...
does the Mexican t mobile ask everyone in Mexico "para englas, habla englas" when you call?
undoubtedly, NO.
but back to the OP, the bumper sticker is tasteless, but i agree, we shouldn't accommodate people who don't know the [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]official language[/color]......
What situation? The situation people like you like to create? What special accommodations? They pay taxes, why cant their money go towardsgovernment forms (Tax forms, Hospital forms, etc.) which the language printed is native to them therefore making that situation easier? They are not"special" they are payed for by the taxes they pay, therefore the GOVERNMENT MUST accommodate their needs whether they be in a foreign language ornot.Originally Posted by eNPHAN
Originally Posted by Forgot About Jae
DONT COME BACK INTO MY STORE UNTIL YOU LEARN SOME DAMN ENGLISH
No I don't "piki panich" and I am NOT your "primo" gtfomf with all that. I can't STAND them
now, this is a disgusting statement...
they can go and do whatever they want, just don't act like we should accommodate you by talking to you in spanish or having text in spanish
and dude above me, that's all fine and dandy...
if we didnt have products in spanish, it wouldn't be as easy to "not learn english because their neighborhoods and culture are primarily of their native language"
how would a non-english speaker pay his tmobile bill if it didnt ask "para espanol, digame, espanol" BEFORE IT EVEN GREETS YOU IN ENGLISH
i have no problem with you if you wanna go against the grain and not learn english...
my problem is with all the special accomadations that only exacerbate the situation...
Originally Posted by eNPHAN
[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Yeah, i've been to guad....horrible example. I actually fly into and out of guad, in the airport, noone has ever spoken english to me throughout all 10 trips through customs...ever.[/color]
If it weren't for so many Immigrants/Minorities working in our airports it would be the same here in the USA. In most airports in the USA non-English speaking Immigrants don't have special accommodations".
[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]the only place that's english-accommodating in mexico is cancun, and STILL you'll have problems not speaking spanish...[/color]
This is not true but dont feel the need to say much on this, as any intelligible person can identify an ignorant statement such as this one.
you came in here like you were disproving my entire post, when you didn't...
Your main argument was "Ive traveled to other countries..." stating they don't accommodate then contrasting that to how we accomadate immigrants "40% of stock in grocery stores are is either half-spanish or FULL-spanish... i think that's quite ridiculous".
That is disproved by this:
"your argument is flawed because the two situations you describe and try to contrast are in no way comparable or equitable.
The day that the Mexican population is composed of over 39 MILLION English speaking Residents/Citizens, is the day your argument will become valid"
lol@spanish tmobile, sorry i didn't know it was Telmex.....you think Telmex customers are greeted with "Hi, Welcome to Telmex, for English, say english" before they are greeted in spanish?
the answer is, no.
Obviously not, and again I say:
"your argument is flawed because the two situations you describe and try to contrast are in no way comparable or equitable.
The day that the Mexican population is composed of over 39 MILLION English speaking Residents/Citizens, is the day your argument will become valid".
i'm sure if we had 30 million french here, we'd get some french labels as well...
So if you get this then whats your point?
the point is, go to a federal post office and speak ONLY in spanish...if one of the workers doesnt HAPPEN to speak spanish, you're !%%@@#. point blank.
regardless of an "official" official language or not....
Not everywhere. More importantly if you look at the situation from a socialogical perspective immigrants tend to form clusters and they remain in them. You rarely see immigrants reside in areas where there are not many more of them. With this being said, at the current rate that the immigrant poplulation is growing(Especially the hispanic population), it is not unimaginable that in the near future there will be almost no businesses with non-Spanish speaking employees in these concentrated areas. Many Socialogy experts predict a shift in what used to be believed, that people would have to adapt to the english language while the Spanish language would remain "Underground" as you so eliquently put it. This shift they predict will put the Spanish language on the same necessity level as its English counterpart.
how about, go outside, commit a crime, when the police come, don't speak ANY english...lets see how enjoyable that ordeal will be for you....
(until, of course, they get the spanish-speaking officer to come ACCOMADATE you)
That is unfortunate but it does happen as we all know.
Why capitalize "ACCOMADATE", they have to accomadate non-English speaking residents' needs. The taxes that the non-English speakers pay compose as much of a part of that officers pay, as the English speaking residents taxes do. So if there are enough non-english speaking residents in a particular area (for discussion purposes hispanics) then it only make sense that their tax money be reflected in certain accomadations, such as spanish speaking officers, forms, etc.
my problem is this, nowhere else in the world, besides the USA, is a minory language accomadated at such length...
other countries, of course, accoadate for english, but not even as hardcore as we do spanish...
There is no other country in the world that hosts a foreign hispanic population of 39 million plus (and rapidly growing).
i just don't understand how a human being can subject theirselves to such an existance...
living in a place where you cannot communicate with 90 percent of the people around you...(yes, you could live in a neighborhood where everyone speaks spanish, but how about you venture outside of those 5 blocks.....)
It is not for you to understand. Live your life and let them live theirs.
if a natural disaster was trying to be averted, of course, the warnings would be in english, it's not troublesome to you that "your people" (since you're so wildly upset by my 'offensive' statements) would perish due to complete ignorance?
First of all what do you mean "your people"
Do you happen to know me? I simply try to think I belong to a global community. While I do not think that your statements have taken low blows at a group or community I do think that many of your arguments are flawed. I do not need to belong to any "People" in order to make that observation.
Hypothetically anything can happen. Though I cannot think of an event happining in the USA where more non-English speaking residents would parish because of a language barrier.
Minorities have news and newspapers, and the same way that English speakers are informed and guided by there respective news and media outlets, so are non-english speaking minorities.
i pity them.....i know what it feels like to be in another country and not speak the native language...and i couldn't imagine actually trying to start a life there...and live there....at all.
Not your job to "pity" them nor to try and imagine how they can live or start a life. Many have a done very well, and many more will after them. Many have failed as well, but then again many USA born English speaking residents fail too.
from that perspective, that of someone who has traveled and had THAT shoe on his foot, is where i base my stances on this topic.....
You have traveled but it is not equitable. Therefore your argument is flawed. You didn't leave your county for the same reasons many of these people flee their native land. Many of them do it because they have to, and once here they don't need people telling them what language to speak. As long as they pay taxes and live life legally than what is it to you or me what language they practice or embrace?
[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]don't sit around pouting when you're treated funny because you can't communicate in the country in which you reside...[/color]
Define "treated funny"
You keep bring up a point about people complaining when they don't get "special treatment" who are these people? Who's pouting?
i didn't read anything you wrote but this.Originally Posted by eNPHAN
Originally Posted by 731balla
They accommodate them because of the size of their population.
Originally Posted by eNPHAN
my problem is this, nowhere else in the world, besides the USA, is a minory language accomadated at such length...
other countries, of course, accoadate for english, but not even as hardcore as we do spanish...