Why do you believe that there is a god?

[gesheonelove10]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

This is all I hear when people say that god changed their life:

   haha ftw

 

[scshift]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Okay big guy. I answered most of this in my first response to you but I guess you overlooked it.

Let me get this straight. I have my own beliefs, which I keep to myself, do not try to impress upon anyone else, and I'M the one at fault for not wanting or being able to prove myself? Where does that put you? You're the one trying to take shots at other peoples' religions, then demanding proof or invalidation. You're the ONLY PERSON in this thread to go straight at other peoples' beliefs and attempt to discredit them. NO ONE else has stated that what they believed in was correct, apart from YOU.

Religion is not limited to the ones that you know of. Everyone has their own spiritual beliefs. Just as you're allowed to decide what you feel is how things are, I have that same right.

I'm not trying to change your mind, so I have nothing to prove to you. You're trying to change my mind, so you have to prove it to me. And you have absolutely no facts on you, your only line of attack is "well you have to prove it". So either bring FACTS into your next argument or don't bother arguing at all.

 

[iamsaikotic]

I would rather believe that there is one and find out otherwise, than not believe and have literally hell to pay when I find out there is one at the end of my road.

... and if you're right... we all end up in oblivion anyway. So you atheists win?

 

[ce0 mal]

Those who don't believe, will never understand those that do.

It's called faith for a reason, no matter what religion you are part of.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by iamsaikotic

I would rather believe that there is one and find out otherwise, than not believe and have literally hell to pay when I find out there is one at the end of my road.

This is the logical fallacy known as Pascal's Wager. Look it up.
Pascal's Wager has been debunked. It doesn't make any sense.

I'll post somethings with the hope that you'll look into this argument.

 

[retro23j]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Supermanblue79

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Atheist with science background... checking in...

Will be watching.

Christian with science background...checking in...

I believe because HE is.

Where is your proof that god exists?
and saying "I believe because HE is" is not proper grammar. 

"He is" is the only proper way to say it.

Why does "god" get all the credit when you've worked long and hard to change your life and to move forward? You do all the work and this entity gets all the credit?
What happened to rewarding yourself and thanking yourself for being successful? Where was that god when you were down and out? If this god is responsible for the good then it is responsible for the bad and lowest moments of your life. You can't ignore that consistency.

God created me, keeps my mind regulated, blood flowing, all other organs operating functionally and continuing to open my understanding. I'm not doing this myself. He gets all the credit. He's always behind the scenes with me and somewhere in the mix.

Where was God when I was down and out? Right there with me. He's there consistently through the good and bad. No one else is that consistent with me.

 

[gesheonelove10]

Alright so question for anyone who believes in god. IF there is a god, what does he do? Does he just watch everything and not intervein? Does he intervein?

There are hundreds of children dying from starvation in Africa, children being hooked on heroin at 10 years old and given a gun and being told to fight.

If your god exists, is he/she just straight cold blooded and heartless?

 

[iamsaikotic]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by iamsaikotic

I would rather believe that there is one and find out otherwise, than not believe and have literally hell to pay when I find out there is one at the end of my road.

This is the logical fallacy known as Pascal's Wager. Look it up.
Pascal's Wager has been debunked. It doesn't make any sense.

I'll post somethings with the hope that you'll look into this argument.

Your comic strip doesn't make sense.

I believe not to receive or gain anything. I believe because of faith. Nothing more, nothing less.

You haven't addressed my other point. If you're right, you're content with oblivion? What are you living for?

 

[spacerace]

if you believe in a god, you must agree that there is no free will 

 

[rko2004]

With all the evil in this world I hope he's up there.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by scshift

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Okay big guy. I answered most of this in my first response to you but I guess you overlooked it.

You actually did not.

Let me get this straight. I have my own beliefs, which I keep to myself, do not try to impress upon anyone else, and I'M the one at fault for not wanting or being able to prove myself? Where does that put you? You're the one trying to take shots at other peoples' religions, then demanding proof or invalidation. You're the ONLY PERSON in this thread to go straight at other peoples' beliefs and attempt to discredit them. NO ONE else has stated that what they believed in was correct, apart from YOU.

I disagree with your beliefs. You're taking it seriously. 
You have not proven your substantiation and thus have no reason to assert that a god exists. 

Also saying "i have my own beliefs and I choose to keep them to myself" isn't helping you. You're clearly in here posting responses. Additionally you're responding to me. And finally it doesn't matter what your beliefs are. If they are wrong or at least inaccurate then you are WILLFULLY ignorant if you refuse to gain additional understanding. You have already been shown that your thoughts are inconsistent and yet you take offense to it. Its not my problem that your god concept doesn't stand up on its own. 

If no one stated what they believed in was "correct" then WHY BELIEVE IT? You're not making any sense dude. 

Using this "well everyone is free to think what they want" phrase always irks me. It makes no sense. You should only follow what makes sense and what there is evidence for. Your god concept doesnt make sense. It can't even be universally applied. That alone speaks to its validity. I could say that black people are genetically more stupid than white people and as soon as you ask me for evidence I can run and claim that "i don't have to explain myself to you" because I just "believe it". You would find that to be a preposterous claim yet when it comes to religion people overlook the same logic they use to understand the world and ignore the inconsistencies of their arguments. Your responses right now are falling in that same category.

Religion is not limited to the ones that you know of. Everyone has their own spiritual beliefs. Just as you're allowed to decide what you feel is how things are, I have that same right.

I KNOW religion isn't limited to the ones I know of...but guess what, THATS WHY I DONT FOLLOW ANY OF THEM. None of them can claim to be the absolute truth because none of them are true! Additionally how can there be 1000 different "absolute truths" about the same thing? If one is wrong then they're all wrong. And since you discredit all the others, whats the matter if I discredit yours? 
You're an atheist with regards to the other 9999 gods out there. I take it one further and discount yours. 

I don't "decide how I feel" that things are. I go off the evidence. I don't believe in anything that doesn't have substantial and consistent evidence. I actually care if i'm right or wrong and I spend a great deal of time trying to learn new things. 

Spirituality is a crock. Its collective wishful thinking. Guess what, you may pray tonight but you know what? You'll still get up the following morning and work your tail off because you know hard work is the only thing you have to move forward in the world. 

I'm not trying to change your mind, so I have nothing to prove to you. You're trying to change my mind, so you have to prove it to me. And you have absolutely no facts on you, your only line of attack is "well you have to prove it". So either bring FACTS into your next argument or don't bother arguing at all.

Well first of all stop typing in big block font like you're proving anything, which of course you haven't because your "religion is personal" well if its personal understand that and stop making it seem like its real. If you had proof you would have shown it already. You can't prove your god or any proof because there is none. You just believe what you want to believe. 
I'm not trying to change your mind. I don't care if you walk away and become a nun or a monk or whatever.  I'm addressing the inconsistencies in your arguments. The same arguments you seem so keen on NOT making.

Stop lying and saying "stop attacking me" "they're my beliefs" "respect my thoughts"...no.

I don't have to. You make claims with NO proof or evidence. Yet i'm supposed to believe you? Why should I do that? Thats the point. You are free to say ANYTHING and think you're free from explaining things. Thats just not true.

You believe in a god. I ask why. You say "because I do"...thats not a good reason bro. I ask where your evidence is. You say I don't have to show any. Well why do you believe? Because I want to. ...HUH???

 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -- Carl Sagan

 

[ce0 mal]

You believe in a god. I ask why. You say "because I do"...thats not a good reason bro. I ask where your evidence is. You say I don't have to show any. Well why do you believe? Because I want to. ...HUH???



You're so mad that he has faith it's aggrevating you. It's hilarious how upset you're coming off as. No he doesn't have to provide evidence to you, at all. You ask why he does, he says "Because I do," it's called faith. You can't comprehend it, that's your problem. He doesn't have to prove anything to you, just you're getting all upset over him not giving you a better reason?

There is no better reason.

Believing is what it is, believing. You're too dense to get that.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by iamsaikotic

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by iamsaikotic

I would rather believe that there is one and find out otherwise, than not believe and have literally hell to pay when I find out there is one at the end of my road.

This is the logical fallacy known as Pascal's Wager. Look it up.
Pascal's Wager has been debunked. It doesn't make any sense.

I'll post somethings with the hope that you'll look into this argument.

Your comic strip doesn't make sense.

I believe not to receive or gain anything. I believe because of faith. Nothing more, nothing less.

You haven't addressed my other point. If you're right, you're content with oblivion? What are you living for?

Faith is the belief in the lack of evidence.
Thats DANGEROUS and makes NO sense. You're technically free to believe in unicorns and leprechauns at that point.

Additionally why do you think there is "oblivion" ? You were TAUGHT that... Thats not an inherent thought. There is no evidence for hell. In fact most concepts of hell arose from popular writers like Dante in the middle ages. Additionally the whole fire and brimstone act includes phrases started in the tent revivals of the middle of the 19th century. Its all a sham and you are falling into the trap. Do your history and ask yourself, WHY DO I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE?

Take time to validate your own thoughts.

 

[pookieman]

Originally Posted by do work son

i don't believe in god, but i don't care if other people do or not (so long as they don't try and push their religious beliefs upon me).

OP, if someone believes in god and that simple belief makes them strive to be a better person, why do you care what they believe in?

I believe in more advanced beings....but not one omnipotent GOD. 



Religion has been put into place to control the masses and it has its good intentions.  However there are over-zealous people out there who have taken it to the extremes over the centuries and killed in the name of their "GOD".  




The bible (only religious book I personally know) is a collection of  well written stories which are supposed to be interpreted in the most simple of ways, but also for the good of man.  It's too bad that we (man-kind) could not just adhere to the meanings of the stories, if we could, there would be no need for religion or a belief in a god.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

You believe in a god. I ask why. You say "because I do"...thats not a good reason bro. I ask where your evidence is. You say I don't have to show any. Well why do you believe? Because I want to. ...HUH???

You're so mad that he has faith it's aggrevating you. It's hilarious how upset you're coming off as. No he doesn't have to provide evidence to you, at all. You ask why he does, he says "Because I do," it's called faith. You can't comprehend it, that's your problem. He doesn't have to prove anything to you, just you're getting all upset over him not giving you a better reason?

There is no better reason.

Believing is what it is, believing. You're too dense to get that.
So I can believe that disease is caused by evil spirits? In the face of evidence that says otherwise? But just because i'm free to believe whatever that makes it a legitimate statement? Thats illogical. 
Stop playing games here bro. 

Not having evidence is an awful reason for doing something. Look at how the US went to the UN following 9/11 and trumped up evidence to invade Iraq... See where that got us? its the same concept. 

If you don't have a legitimate reason to believe in something you have to admit that it is a foolish concept. 

Faith is blind following. If thats how you want to live your life, fine but don't expect others to respect you when you offer them no reason to. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

With all the evil in this world I hope he's up there.

The same evil it created? 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by spacerace

if you believe in a god, you must agree that there is no free will 

Exactly. 
Watch the mental gymnastics they use as they attempt to evade this. 

 

[ce0 mal]

Faith is blind following


No it isn't. Faith is a trust in something; a belief.  And you're getting upset because you can't shake someone's faith with your arguements.

 

[iamsaikotic]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by iamsaikotic

Originally Posted by sillyputty

This is the logical fallacy known as Pascal's Wager. Look it up.
Pascal's Wager has been debunked. It doesn't make any sense.

I'll post somethings with the hope that you'll look into this argument.

Your comic strip doesn't make sense.

I believe not to receive or gain anything. I believe because of faith. Nothing more, nothing less.

You haven't addressed my other point. If you're right, you're content with oblivion? What are you living for?

Faith is the belief in the lack of�evidence.
Thats DANGEROUS and makes NO sense. You're technically free to believe in unicorns and leprechauns at that point.�

Additionally why do you think there is "oblivion" ? You were TAUGHT that... Thats not an inherent thought. There is no evidence for hell. In fact most concepts of hell arose from popular writers like Dante in the middle ages. Additionally the whole fire and brimstone act includes phrases started in the tent revivals of the middle of the 19th century. Its all a sham and you are falling into the trap. Do your history and ask yourself, WHY DO I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE?�

Take time to validate your own thoughts.�

You may be able to turn simpletons away from faith by TYPING IN UPPER CASE, but fact is faith is a real thing. Faith can't be comprehended by all people, and I'm fine with that. You're the only one trying to instill your own beliefs into someone else. If you want to make comparisons you're like the hypebeast who criticizes someone else's clothes because they're not the hottest thing. There's a reason why religion has been around for as long as it has been and as for this strong argumentative belief in atheism, one can't say the same.

 

[vatech733]

http://www.stumbleupon.co...anscript.com/zs/882.html

*highly suggest you read this, very smart lady*

 

[sillyputty]

CE0 Mal wrote:

---

Faith is blind following

No it isn't. Faith is a trust in something; a belief.  And you're getting upset because you can't shake someone's faith with your arguements. 



Lets just call it what it is. 
Faith is believing in something without evidence.

Thats what it is.

Faith is BLIND. You have no empirical data or understanding to substantiate your belief. Thats what faith is. You just do it "just because" 

Thats not good enough. You know it too. But when it comes to religion you OVERLOOK ALL OF THAT.

Every aspect of your life you use logic and consistent evidence to make decisions.

Middle school basketball players don't get drafted on "faith"

Engineers don't build bridges on "faith" 

Teachers don't grade papers on "faith"

Surgeons don't operate on "faith"

Yet when it comes to religion people overlook ALL of the inconsistencies and just go with "faith". Its logical. 




This makes no sense man. 

Call a spade a spade man. Stop skirting around the issue. ESPECIALLY (2.b). 

 

[scshift]

Originally Posted by sillyputty


You actually did not.

I disagree with your beliefs. You're taking it seriously. 

You have not proven your substantiation and thus have no reason to assert that a god exists. 

Also saying "i have my own beliefs and I choose to keep them to myself" isn't helping you. You're clearly in here posting responses. Additionally you're responding to me. And finally it doesn't matter what your beliefs are. If they are wrong or at least inaccurate then you are WILLFULLY ignorant if you refuse to gain additional understanding. You have already been shown that your thoughts are inconsistent and yet you take offense to it. Its not my problem that your god concept doesn't stand up on its own. 

If no one stated what they believed in was "correct" then WHY BELIEVE IT? You're not making any sense dude. 

Using this "well everyone is free to think what they want" phrase always irks me. It makes no sense. You should only follow what makes sense and what there is evidence for. Your god concept doesnt make sense. It can't even be universally applied. That alone speaks to its validity. I could say that black people are genetically more stupid than white people and as soon as you ask me for evidence I can run and claim that "i don't have to explain myself to you" because I just "believe it". You would find that to be a preposterous claim yet when it comes to religion people overlook the same logic they use to understand the world and ignore the inconsistencies of their arguments. Your responses right now are falling in that same category.

I KNOW religion isn't limited to the ones I know of...but guess what, THATS WHY I DONT FOLLOW ANY OF THEM. None of them can claim to be the absolute truth because none of them are true! Additionally how can there be 1000 different "absolute truths" about the same thing? If one is wrong then they're all wrong. And since you discredit all the others, whats the matter if I discredit yours? 

You're an atheist with regards to the other 9999 gods out there. I take it one further and discount yours. 

I don't "decide how I feel" that things are. I go off the evidence. I don't believe in anything that doesn't have substantial and consistent evidence. I actually care if i'm right or wrong and I spend a great deal of time trying to learn new things. 

Spirituality is a crock. Its collective wishful thinking. Guess what, you may pray tonight but you know what? You'll still get up the following morning and work your tail off because you know hard work is the only thing you have to move forward in the world. 
Well first of all stop typing in big block font like you're proving anything, which of course you haven't because your "religion is personal" well if its personal understand that and stop making it seem like its real. If you had proof you would have shown it already. You can't prove your god or any proof because there is none. You just believe what you want to believe. 
I'm not trying to change your mind. I don't care if you walk away and become a nun or a monk or whatever.  I'm addressing the inconsistencies in your arguments. The same arguments you seem so keen on NOT making.

Stop lying and saying "stop attacking me" "they're my beliefs" "respect my thoughts"...no.

I don't have to. You make claims with NO proof or evidence. Yet i'm supposed to believe you? Why should I do that? Thats the point. You are free to say ANYTHING and think you're free from explaining things. Thats just not true.

You believe in a god. I ask why. You say "because I do"...thats not a good reason bro. I ask where your evidence is. You say I don't have to show any. Well why do you believe? Because I want to. ...HUH???

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -- Carl Sagan

I take all of my arguments seriously. Don't act like you aren't taking this seriously. Are you just participating in a debate over religion cause you're bored at 10 AM?

When I first posted in this thread, I said I would not argue or defend what I believed in. I clearly went against my own words and I'd like to stick to what I originally wrote.

I'm going to leave this argument. You win this one. But I have one last question.

If you believe in what you believe in, why waste time on me? Or anyone else who believes in God? I don't mean this as a defense, but I'd like to know why you want to prove me wrong. I'm no one. My logic is flawed, my beliefs are a lie, so why waste time with me? If we're all going to die and we're all going to stay dead, why not let me live in blind ignorance until the day we both die? If you believe what you believe in, why try and prove everyone wrong? Let them be wrong, as long as you know what you know, it's all good. If you know the truth and I only know lies, why not leave me alone and let me find out when the time comes?

 

[pookieman]

 

[pookieman]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

CE0 Mal wrote:

---

Faith is blind following

No it isn't. Faith is a trust in something; a belief.  And you're getting upset because you can't shake someone's faith with your arguements. 



Lets just call it what it is. 
Faith is believing in something without evidence.

Thats what it is.

Faith is BLIND. You have no empirical data or understanding to substantiate your belief. Thats what faith is. You just do it "just because" 

Thats not good enough. You know it too. But when it comes to religion you OVERLOOK ALL OF THAT.

Every aspect of your life you use logic and consistent evidence to make decisions.

Middle school basketball players don't get drafted on "faith"

Engineers don't build bridges on "faith" 

Teachers don't grade papers on "faith"

Surgeons don't operate on "faith"

Yet when it comes to religion people overlook ALL of the inconsistencies and just go with "faith". Its logical. 




This makes no sense man. 

Call a spade a spade man. Stop skirting around the issue. ESPECIALLY (2.b). 


AMEN!

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by scshift

Originally Posted by sillyputty


You actually did not.

I disagree with your beliefs. You're taking it seriously. 

You have not proven your substantiation and thus have no reason to assert that a god exists. 

Also saying "i have my own beliefs and I choose to keep them to myself" isn't helping you. You're clearly in here posting responses. Additionally you're responding to me. And finally it doesn't matter what your beliefs are. If they are wrong or at least inaccurate then you are WILLFULLY ignorant if you refuse to gain additional understanding. You have already been shown that your thoughts are inconsistent and yet you take offense to it. Its not my problem that your god concept doesn't stand up on its own. 

If no one stated what they believed in was "correct" then WHY BELIEVE IT? You're not making any sense dude. 

Using this "well everyone is free to think what they want" phrase always irks me. It makes no sense. You should only follow what makes sense and what there is evidence for. Your god concept doesnt make sense. It can't even be universally applied. That alone speaks to its validity. I could say that black people are genetically more stupid than white people and as soon as you ask me for evidence I can run and claim that "i don't have to explain myself to you" because I just "believe it". You would find that to be a preposterous claim yet when it comes to religion people overlook the same logic they use to understand the world and ignore the inconsistencies of their arguments. Your responses right now are falling in that same category.

I KNOW religion isn't limited to the ones I know of...but guess what, THATS WHY I DONT FOLLOW ANY OF THEM. None of them can claim to be the absolute truth because none of them are true! Additionally how can there be 1000 different "absolute truths" about the same thing? If one is wrong then they're all wrong. And since you discredit all the others, whats the matter if I discredit yours? 

You're an atheist with regards to the other 9999 gods out there. I take it one further and discount yours. 

I don't "decide how I feel" that things are. I go off the evidence. I don't believe in anything that doesn't have substantial and consistent evidence. I actually care if i'm right or wrong and I spend a great deal of time trying to learn new things. 

Spirituality is a crock. Its collective wishful thinking. Guess what, you may pray tonight but you know what? You'll still get up the following morning and work your tail off because you know hard work is the only thing you have to move forward in the world. 
Well first of all stop typing in big block font like you're proving anything, which of course you haven't because your "religion is personal" well if its personal understand that and stop making it seem like its real. If you had proof you would have shown it already. You can't prove your god or any proof because there is none. You just believe what you want to believe. 
I'm not trying to change your mind. I don't care if you walk away and become a nun or a monk or whatever.  I'm addressing the inconsistencies in your arguments. The same arguments you seem so keen on NOT making.

Stop lying and saying "stop attacking me" "they're my beliefs" "respect my thoughts"...no.

I don't have to. You make claims with NO proof or evidence. Yet i'm supposed to believe you? Why should I do that? Thats the point. You are free to say ANYTHING and think you're free from explaining things. Thats just not true.

You believe in a god. I ask why. You say "because I do"...thats not a good reason bro. I ask where your evidence is. You say I don't have to show any. Well why do you believe? Because I want to. ...HUH???

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -- Carl Sagan

I take all of my arguments seriously. Don't act like you aren't taking this seriously. Are you just participating in a debate over religion cause you're bored at 10 AM?

When I first posted in this thread, I said I would not argue or defend what I believed in. I clearly went against my own words and I'd like to stick to what I originally wrote.

I'm going to leave this argument. You win this one. But I have one last question.

If you believe in what you believe in, why waste time on me? Or anyone else who believes in God? I don't mean this as a defense, but I'd like to know why you want to prove me wrong. I'm no one. My logic is flawed, my beliefs are a lie, so why waste time with me? If we're all going to die and we're all going to stay dead, why not let me live in blind ignorance until the day we both die? If you believe what you believe in, why try and prove everyone wrong? Let them be wrong, as long as you know what you know, it's all good. If you know the truth and I only know lies, why not leave me alone and let me find out when the time comes?

What do I believe in? 
Nothing. 

I don't believe in anything.

I support notions based on evidence that substantiates claims.

Belief is a dangerous word. It asserts that you can just support an idea for no reason. 

I've read more about religion than most people, not that such a thing should impress you, but I know more about the history of various religions and the claims they assert to know that they are all lies. All of them. 

We are going to die. 

thats it. 

We make up coping mechanisms to deal with the fact. We create gods and afterlives and these wonderful places they go and stories of what happens to bad people. We want people to get their "due" in the end. Its an accounting system. It helps to make life easier. Its a mental drug...

Why won't I let you off the hook? Because you wont let yourself off. I don't care what you believe but don't cross my path with things that dont make sense. Lets be honest, if you learned about the concept of "god" for the VERY first time as a 21 year old you would look at that person like 

 and just walk off. None of it makes sense...especially in the concept of religion.

I don't like seeing people waste their time. Imagine if all the effort we spend on praying and religion, if we spend on science and developing new ways of understanding physics and solving the worlds engineering problems? What if we tried to develop more modern ethical systems and understandings of morality? What if we tried to explore the cosmos even more? 

Why waste your time on a lie? You don't lose sleep over hinduism, islam, or wiccans. Why lose sleep over YOUR god? Thats the point. 

I don't have all the answers but to insert "god" into it doesn't solve anything. It doesn't bring us any closer to understanding that much more about the lives we live and the world we live in or the universe beyond that. 

Whats more is that YOU KNOW THIS. You don't implore that sort of logic ANYWHERE ELSE. You still look both ways before crossing the street, you're skeptical of emails from nigerian princes, you still study very hard for exams, you still hit the gym, you still treat other people courteously, you still seek for new ways to learn and do things...all in spite of prayer. You don't need to believe in a god to be a good person. You don't need to believe in a god to learn more. The "god" thing is a dying way to understand the world. For the most part we have moved beyond that as a society. Its still clinging on because it has power. Thats to be expected but they know what time it is. People are becoming more educated and simply losing faith in a system that they KNOW is illogical.