Your Civil Liberties....where do you draw the line

[jking0821]

So in a spin off from the conspiracy thread i feel like it deserves its own thread. I mentioned it in TAN as well

People complain about all these "civil liberties" being taken away. And i get it to an extreme extent. Like home invasions without a warrant and such. But drones watching patrolling 24-7 and gun control, doesn't effect my everyday life in the least. Unless a drone is in my window watching me fap and putting it on the internet i don't care. They are there to stop crime...which im doing none of...so doesn't' bother me. I also don't own a gun....or extended magazines for my imaginary gun....so the ban on them makes me a little more safe since i wasn't going to own one anyway ever....and now its harder for others too...so i guess im a little bit safer? Either way...not effecting my life really.

But when i say this to people they are like....oh its a slippery slope you should fight for all your civil liberties....pretty soon they will be PIIYB no lube, and killing your pets and chopping off your fingers.....but lets be real....that is a cliff...not a slope...when things actually effect my everyday life...then i think i will care.

Apathy? Ignorance? I don't know...people just get too worked up over things that don't really effect them

I rant all the time about the seat belt law and how its unfair and stupid. Same with speeding cameras and red light cameras that cause more harm then good. But where do you draw the line?

Do you even care?

Cliffs:
- Lots of talk of civil liberties being robbed/taken away
- Do you care
- When would you care?

inb4
you're fascist
if you don't like it then you can get out
holla course

 

[derryj3]

I really don't care....

I'm more about freedom of what Im looking up on the internet

 

[RIP sleazyy]

I think that kind of stuff should be voted on.

want guns? national poll. drones patrolling our air space? vote. crazy internet regulations? vote on it. you like big sodas? vote on it.

one group or some lobbyists should not be able to dictate national or state law, especially when the citizens who have to follow the laws don't eem get a say.

I know one thing, I never ever ever want to live in a society where the only people allowed to have guns are the military and police. that's crazy. what the hell am I going to do if some dudes with glocks bust into my house in the middle of the night and I'm disarmed "for my own safety"? hell even multiple people armed with knives or box cutters? there's no winner in a knife fight, b. but if I was armed, the situation probs wouldn't even escalate.

most of this stuff I really don't care about because in the long run we're too far gone. we have ventured far from what the nation was built on in good ways and bad ways.

I'm not going to go at you for not caring because that's a personal choice. you don't HAVE to care and that's your right as an American. but for the ones that do, I think polling with several audits and maybe an unbiased board with members who face termination and fines for giving in to lobbying to review topics would be great.

 

[imreallydirknowitzki]

one group or some lobbyists should not be able to dictate national or state law, especially when the citizens who have to follow the laws don't eem get a say.

QFT. But they do, and they get paid to see things a certain way.

 

[beh235]

JKing, you say the consequences are a cliff, but the whole time, we're sliding to that point. With the recent Boston incident, you now have an argument for even MORE public monitoring methods. Fear is a great motivator into tricking you into giving up certain rights imo. I certainly hope we don't go far enough as society on a whole, where we end up screwing ourselved over and giving up too much to be "safe".

 

[nazdrowie]

speed cams/red light cams dont really do anything to deter people. they are just a means to turn a profit.

with speed cameras people slow down at that point then speed up again. red light cameras cause people to break faster when they see light change.

i ALWAYS give myself a lot room in front of me on roads with cameras because people stay with the quick breaks.

MD drivers drive really fast.

 

[rillo561]

The thing is you don't if it'll effect you until its too late. You don't know what can happen 5-10 years down the line in your life. "Gun control" sounds good but the people who commit crimes are not using "legit" guns. So your gun gets stolen, maybe you didn't notice. Somebody dies they trace it back to you and they may book you. Now you have a record, even if you didn't "do" anything so the rest of your life you MUST prove you're innocent but by that time the opportunity is gone and you're stuck.

I'm all for voting on these issues, even voting isn't 100% but at least the people have a say.

 

[the nomad]

Our Civil Liberties aren't being taken away and they never have. It's just in certain people, corporations and politician's best interest to count on the fact that the average American is too lazy and uninterested in exercising his/her freedoms. Let alone defend them.

 

[sundoobie]

when things actually effect my everyday life...then i think i will care.

Generally the sentiment most people in this country feels.

Personally I care if Law Enforcement goes to my house without my permission.

I care if the Govt outlaws certain guns

I care that the Govt is spying the websites I visit, things I purchases, or phone conversations I have.

I care that Obama signed off on NDAA which allowed the Govt to hold American citizens indefinitely for whatever reason.

I care that whistle blowers like Bradley Manning was tortured and prosecuted under the Federal Espionage Act

I mean I can go on and on... but my main question to OP is... if you don't care and if everyone in this country don't care either then where would we be?

 

[decemberlove]

potentiality and privacy

If my civil rights are being taken away there's potential for the gov. to do whatever they want to whoever they want and no one could do anything about it.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

when things actually effect my everyday life...then i think i will care.

Generally the sentiment most people in this country feels.

Personally I care if Law Enforcement goes to my house without my permission.

I care if the Govt outlaws certain guns

I care that the Govt is spying the websites I visit, things I purchases, or phone conversations I have.

I care that Obama signed off on NDAA which allowed the Govt to hold American citizens indefinitely for whatever reason.

I care that whistle blowers like Bradley Manning was tortured and prosecuted under the Federal Espionage Act

I mean I can go on and on... but my main question to OP is... if you don't care and if everyone in this country don't care either then where would we be?

these are big ones to me. I find it crazy that people literally do not care that a man was imprisoned and tortured without trial for exposing wrongdoings.

the fact that there's a war against whistleblowers is disgusting in itself.

I damn sure don't want anyone spying on my browsing and purchasing habits.

request your FBI files people.

 

[rillo561]

Our Civil Liberties aren't being taken away and they never have. It's just in certain people, corporations and politician's best interest to count on the fact that the average American is too lazy and uninterested in exercising his/her freedoms. Let alone defend them.

This, by definition is a conspiracy and it happens all the time. However when people hear that word they dismiss it and right away attack. You're absolutely right though.

 

[jking0821]

Great responses appreciate it...i will rep when i get more reps tomorrow.

I heed what everyone is saying and i get it. I would def not want cops coming into my house with no search warrant. But there are the things like SUNDoobie said where i will say i don't care that the govt can hold citizens for no reason indefinitely it really doesn't pertain to me...until one day cops take me and hold me for no reason and there is nothing i can do about it (the chances of that probably aren't very likely but crazier things have happened)

But some stuff like the drones monitoring 24-7 really effects criminals. They can watch me all day...it is pretty boring. I guess my hang up is do i fight for things i believe in...fight because "its a slippery slope" and if not now when?

I feel like the small changes that are made might actually be for the betterment of society then people make these ridiculous statements of "well what happens when the internet is completely censored and you get arrested for looking at pr0n? Well i will fight that bill before it gets passed. "Well by then it will be too late" and im like uhhh how?

And aside from writing to your congressman/woman (which i actually did about the seat belt law) how else do your really get your voice heard about issues you care about. And i would love if there was a vote on every issue...but i don't see that happening soon either

Spoiler: Speed Cameras

I drive I-95 sound everyday to work. There is a speed camera around white marsh on the highway. Everyone slams their brakes when they see it...i have seen 4 accidents since the beginning of last year of people being rear ended because they are going 80mph and have to slam the brakes. They are more of a detriment then they are worth especially on a highway. In school zones...during school hours...sure ok ......but if its stay vs go....they can go....and yes people in MD drive fast

 

[royal assassin]

So in a spin off from the conspiracy thread i feel like it deserves its own thread. I mentioned it in TAN as well

People complain about all these "civil liberties" being taken away. And i get it to an extreme extent. Like home invasions without a warrant and such. But drones watching patrolling 24-7 and gun control, doesn't effect my everyday life in the least. Unless a drone is in my window watching me fap and putting it on the internet i don't care. They are there to stop crime...which im doing none of...so doesn't' bother me. I also don't own a gun....or extended magazines for my imaginary gun....so the ban on them makes me a little more safe since i wasn't going to own one anyway ever....and now its harder for others too...so i guess im a little bit safer? Either way...not effecting my life really.

But when i say this to people they are like....oh its a slippery slope you should fight for all your civil liberties....pretty soon they will be PIIYB no lube, and killing your pets and chopping off your fingers.....but lets be real....that is a cliff...not a slope...when things actually effect my everyday life...then i think i will care.

Apathy? Ignorance? I don't know...people just get too worked up over things that don't really effect them

I rant all the time about the seat belt law and how its unfair and stupid. Same with speeding cameras and red light cameras that cause more harm then good. But where do you draw the line?

Do you even care?

Cliffs:
- Lots of talk of civil liberties being robbed/taken away
- Do you care
- When would you care?

inb4
you're fascist
if you don't like it then you can get out
holla course

fambs, the point is that by the time it DOES affect your everyday life, it'll be too late for anyone to do anything about it....don't you see that?  when i was a kid growin up (32 now) smoking was done EVERYWHERE.  On planes, in bathrooms, grocery store, everywhere.  when the government decided to make tobacco the devil (and yet still profit from it) i joined a pro smoking group that tried to get people to rise up and prevent the government from simultaneously killing and profiting from its people all in the name of safety.  i didn't even smoke!  smoking wasn't the issue for a lot of us, but the almost effortless way the government took something that for so long had just been a normal part of society and turned everyone doing it into pariahs almost overnight was.  when we said, 'well you're happy now, but wait until they come for your fast food or your kids or even your privacy,' and welp......just look at the world now, or even just new york!  it's like a ****** prison camp over there.  privacy still needs to be privacy, rights still need to be rights and people need to open their cot damn eyes and realize that sooner rather than later if we don't stand UP for our rights they're ALL gonna be gone and it saddens me to see posts like this because i know it's becoming more and more the norm that a lot of people won't eem care when it does.  

 

[royal assassin]

speed cams/red light cams dont really do anything to deter people. they are just a means to turn a profit.

with speed cameras people slow down at that point then speed up again. red light cameras cause people to break faster when they see light change.

i ALWAYS give myself a lot room in front of me on roads with cameras because people stay with the quick breaks.

MD drivers drive really fast are horrible at driving.

you ain't never lied famb.  

 

[createdestroy]

Bradley manning was not a whistle blower. He gave away documents without reviewing all of them and deserves to be charged with treason.

 

[rillo561]

It can be too late because these are lawyers who make these laws, they are changing definitions all the time only to benefit a certain few or push some type of agenda.

 

[jking0821]

So in a spin off from the conspiracy thread i feel like it deserves its own thread. I mentioned it in TAN as well


People complain about all these "civil liberties" being taken away. And i get it to an extreme extent. Like home invasions without a warrant and such. But drones watching patrolling 24-7 and gun control, doesn't effect my everyday life in the least. Unless a drone is in my window watching me fap and putting it on the internet i don't care. They are there to stop crime...which im doing none of...so doesn't' bother me. I also don't own a gun....or extended magazines for my imaginary gun....so the ban on them makes me a little more safe since i wasn't going to own one anyway ever....and now its harder for others too...so i guess im a little bit safer? Either way...not effecting my life really.


But when i say this to people they are like....oh its a slippery slope you should fight for all your civil liberties....pretty soon they will be PIIYB no lube, and killing your pets and chopping off your fingers.....but lets be real....that is a cliff...not a slope...when things actually effect my everyday life...then i think i will care.


Apathy? Ignorance? I don't know...people just get too worked up over things that don't really effect them


I rant all the time about the seat belt law and how its unfair and stupid. Same with speeding cameras and red light cameras that cause more harm then good. But where do you draw the line?


Do you even care?


Cliffs:

- Lots of talk of civil liberties being robbed/taken away

- Do you care

- When would you care?


inb4

you're fascist

if you don't like it then you can get out

holla course

fambs, the point is that by the time it DOES affect your everyday life, it'll be too late for anyone to do anything about it....don't you see that?  when i was a kid growin up (32 now) smoking was done EVERYWHERE.  On planes, in bathrooms, grocery store, everywhere.  when the government decided to make tobacco the devil (and yet still profit from it) i joined a pro smoking group that tried to get people to rise up and prevent the government from simultaneously killing and profiting from its people all in the name of safety.  i didn't even smoke!  smoking wasn't the issue for a lot of us, but the almost effortless way the government took something that for so long had just been a normal part of society and turned everyone doing it into pariahs almost overnight was.  when we said, 'well you're happy now, but wait until they come for your fast food or your kids or even your privacy,' and welp......just look at the world now, or even just new york!  it's like a ****** prison camp over there.  privacy still needs to be privacy, rights still need to be rights and people need to open their cot damn eyes and realize that sooner rather than later if we don't stand UP for our rights they're ALL gonna be gone and it saddens me to see posts like this because i know it's becoming more and more the norm that a lot of people won't eem care when it does.  

But you don't think this is slightly sensationalizing the whole thing? Like cigarettes are bad, fast food is bad, some sort of restriction on them isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know it's an incredibly fine line to walk on helpful restriction vs infringement on rights. I appreciate the opinion because I am open to the whole matter really.

After seeing the people in boston getting kicked out of their homes and yelled at by the cops at gun point it got me thinking like if some 19 year old was on the loose or not...i wouldn't want them doing that to me or my family....maybe i should do something about this...then (like most) i was like well its over now....moving on

 

[lord cornelius]

federal law >state laws.it doesnt mattter what you vote on, you have certain laws with fine print that pretty much render the constitution useless,we are all being watched our phones and internet activity are being monitored also what you use your credit card on.you think we are going to be advised when drones are going to be flying overhead? they are being used in our border towns already to keep tabs on key cartel players.theres no such things as privacy anymore, but some people make the feds job easy by posting there every move on social networks and texting they can pretty much tell what you did all day by either listening in to the cell tower closest to you or tracking your IP.also the freedom of information is pretty much useless since you are only able to get the documents when its too late.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

speed cams/red light cams dont really do anything to deter people. they are just a means to turn a profit.

with speed cameras people slow down at that point then speed up again. red light cameras cause people to break faster when they see light change.

i ALWAYS give myself a lot room in front of me on roads with cameras because people stay with the quick breaks.

MD drivers drive really fast are horrible at driving.

you ain't never lied famb.  

throw VA in too. don't let it be raining people's driving IQ drops 30 points minimum.

 

[rillo561]

Regardless what you label manning, I agree with what he did. The people need to see what's happening, corporate owned news won't do it and its the taxpayers money that's being sucked dry while we fight a boogeyman, while the USA is going down the drain and the people are left with scraps that are being called "entitlements" that you worked and paid for.

 

[royal assassin]

But you don't think this is slightly sensationalizing the whole thing? Like cigarettes are bad, fast food is bad, some sort of restriction on them isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know it's an incredibly fine line to walk on helpful restriction vs infringement on rights. I appreciate the opinion because I am open to the whole matter really.

After seeing the people in boston getting kicked out of their homes and yelled at by the cops at gun point it got me thinking like if some 19 year old was on the loose or not...i wouldn't want them doing that to me or my family....maybe i should do something about this...then (like most) i was like well its over now....moving on

cigarettes are choices, eating fast food is a choice.  those are freedoms that we as americans should be able to enjoy or not enjoy without having the government TELL us we can or not.  we know cigs are bad, we know fast food isn't healthy, we know guns in the wrong hands can be deadly but we shouldn't be FORCED to do anything either way because that's not what we were founded on.  i seen a story of a teenager who has eaten nothing but mcdonald's fries since she was a little girl and eventually had to go to the hospital for all sorts of ****.  guess what?  her choice.  should the government have 'saved' her from herself? nope!  let that girl cook (and die, eventually) it's her right as an american.  i want less regulation.  i want less 'monitoring'.  i want the government focused on helping the people in beneficial ways not attempting to strong arm all of us in the direction of their choosing.  they're supposed to work for US, not the other way around.

 

[sundoobie]

Bradley manning was not a whistle blower. He gave away documents without reviewing all of them and deserves to be charged with treason.

Hear his words and tell me how he isn't a whistle blower?



I don't care what type of security clearances he had and the oath he took... there is RIGHT/GOOD and there is WRONG/EVIL!

 

[royal assassin]

throw VA in too. don't let it be raining

people's driving IQ drops 30 points minimum.

 right?!  i was in richmond for a concert/fest type thing with some friends..cot damn man we were headed back at night and it was drizzling and man....

 

[createdestroy]

Bradley manning was not a whistle blower. He gave away documents without reviewing all of them and deserves to be charged with treason.

Hear his words and tell me how he isn't a whistle blower?



I don't care what type of security clearances he had and the oath he took... there is RIGHT/GOOD and there is WRONG/EVIL!

his words mean nothing... I'm judging his actions....

He did not review all the documents he released.... he didn't even know the extent of the information he released....

Whistleblowing is when you see something wrong going on and you expose that. Whistleblowing is not having access to thousands of embassy cables and releasing everything you could get your hands on without even knowing what it is you are releasing.